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New do-it-yourself deed transfer service for $25

To involve an attorney in a simple timeshare deed transfer has to be overkill in most cases. The attorneys might disagree but I view there usage as an unnecessary expense for the vast majority of transactions.


Denise and others:

Alan operates from South Carolina. The South Carolina Supreme Court has ruled many times over that the preparing of deeds is the practice of law and requires one to be admitted to the South Carolina Bar. Further, the recording of a deed is also considered the practice of law and as such requires a South Carolina Attorney to oversee the recording process.

While a party buyer or seller can prepare their own documents and deeds, the preparation by a 3rd party or even telling someone how to fill out a deed IS the practice of law.

Now, the comment has been made that Alan can prepare deeds all he wants, that is true. I can drive 100 mph on the interstate as well. I can tell you from personal experiences that in the vast majority of the country if a closing company is not issuing title insurance then the person that is preparing the deed is practicing law without a license.

I am not an attorney, nor do I play one on TV. I do have a closing company and have researched the requirements ad nausem. Florida, Georgia, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, Louisiana, Nevada, Virginia, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, New York and I can keep going all take the same approach to the preparation of a deed as the practice of law. UNLESS you are a party to the transaction, meaning the buyer or seller.

You are confusing him holding money as being an escrow agent. That too in many states requires a License. The mere fact that he is assisting people in what to put where on a deed, while simple for many is what a lawyer does and protects their trade.

While you can blast Rich all you want, he is very correct in what he is telling you. I would venture a guess that if Alan called the Attorney Generals office and told them he was preparing deeds for others and doing so in South Carolina as well as preparing and recording South Carolina deeds, they would not take kindly to it.

Don't take mine or anyone elses word on it. Here is the verbage from the South Carolina Bar.


Unauthorized Practice of Law
What is the Unauthorized Practice of Law?
In order to practice law in South Carolina, an attorney must be licensed by the Supreme Court of South Carolina. The authority of the Supreme Court can be found in the South Carolina Code of Laws at Section 40-5-220, available online or at a local library.

Except where a person is representing his or her own cause, practicing law without a license is strictly prohibited by state law. Section 40-5-310 states that practicing law without a license is a felony, with a penalty of up to five years in prison and/or five a thousand dollar fine. As of 2002, Section 40-5-80 was amended to prohibit the representation of another, with or without permission from a court.

The biggest problem in determining whether someone is engaged in the unauthorized practice of law is determining whether his or her conduct is actually the "practice of law." It is up to the South Carolina Supreme Court to decide whether someone is engaged in the practice of law. Code Section 40-5-20 allows the Supreme Court to adopt rules "defining and regulating the practice of law."

What is considered the "practice of law"?
The practice of law is more than just appearing in court on behalf of a client. Though no concise definition of practice of law exists, certain characteristics make it more likely that the Court will view certain conduct as the practice of law. An early South Carolina case, cited by other jurisdictions as well, stated that the practice of law includes "the preparation of legal instruments of all kinds, and in general all advice to clients and all action taken for them in matters connected with the law." In re Duncan, 65 S.E. 210 (S.C. 1909). The practice of law "extends to activities in other fields which entail specialized legal knowledge." South Carolina v. Buyers Serv. Co., 357 S.E.2d 15 (S.C. 1987).

Additionally, whether an individual is paid for his or her services is irrelevant. The reasons for prohibiting the unauthorized practice of law are not to protect licensed attorneys from losing business to unlicensed individuals. Rather, the purpose is to protect the public from consequences resulting "from the erroneous preparation of legal documents or the inaccurate legal advice given by persons untrained in the law." South Carolina v. McLauren, 563 S.E.2d 346 (S.C. 2002).

Examples from South Carolina Supreme Court decisions:
Inmates. The Supreme Court ruled that it was the unauthorized practice of law for a state prison inmate to help other inmates prepare applications for post-conviction relief, even though he was not paid and never appeared in court on the other inmates' behalf. South Carolina v. McLauren, 563 S.E.2d 346 (S.C. 2002).

Real Estate Closings. Preparation of deeds, mortgages and other legal instruments related to transfers of real estate falls within the practice of law. Additionally, the Supreme Court ruled that "real estate and mortgage loan closings should be conducted only under the supervision of attorneys, who have the ability to furnish their clients legal advice should the need arise . . . ." South Carolina v. Buyers Serv. Co., 357 S.E.2d 15 (S.C. 1987); Doe v. Condon, 568 S.E.2d 356 (S.C. 2002). While the Bar's Ethics Advisory Committee is limited to issues of professional conduct by South Carolina attorneys and does not issue opinions as to what constitutes the unauthorized practice of law, the Committee does acknowledge a significant number of inquiries about UPL by lenders in the real estate field. Click here for more information.

3rd Party Insurance Adjusting. Public insurance adjustment does not necessarily constitute the practice of law, and is regulated by SC Code section 38-48-70.Insurance adjustment is limited to include: (a) estimations of property damage and repair costs, (b) inventory of loss, (c) delivering claim to insurance company, and (d) negotiating with insurance company relating to property-damage valuations.

Insurance adjustment violates restrictions on unauthorized practice of law when conduct includes: (a) advising clients of their rights under an insurance policy, (b) advising on whether to accept settlement offers, (c) becoming involved in coverage dispute between the client and the insurance company, and (d) advertising that adjuster offers services that require legal skill. Linder v. Ins. Claims Consultants, Inc., 560 S.E.2d 612 (S.C. 2002).

Unsupervised paralegal. A disbarred attorney prepared and filed a deed for a small fee. Though he argued that he was merely acting as a paralegal, his conduct constituted the practice of law. Paralegals do not engage in the practice of law as long as their work is �of a preparatory nature, such as legal research, investigation, or the composition of legal documents, which enable a licensed attorney-employer to carry a given matter to a conclusion through his own examination, approval or additional effort." Matter of Easler, 272 S.E.2d 32 (S.C. 1980).

Estate planning seminar. A paralegal wanted to conduct unsupervised "wills and trusts" seminars for the public. Because the paralegal planned to advise potential clients of their need for particular estate planning devices, such advice requires professional judgment by a licensed attorney. Doe v. Condon, 532 S.E.2d 879 (S.C. 2000).

Paralegal advertising. A paralegal advertised, "If your civil rights have been violated, call me." It was illegal for the paralegal (not a licensed attorney) to solicit the cause of another person. At the time of the case, it was legal for a non-lawyer to defend the cause of another after receiving permission by the court. Now, it is illegal for an unlicensed person to represent anyone other than himself or herself. South Carolina v. Robinson, 468 S.E.2d 190 (S.C. 1996).

Pro bono paralegal. A certified paralegal offered voluntary services for persons in need of assistance with housing and landlord-tenant issues. The paralegal prepared and filed a complaint (lawsuit) in federal court relating to unlawful eviction. He also prepared pleadings filed in state circuit court alleging unlawful termination of public assistance benefits. The fact that the paralegal was not paid was irrelevant. The Supreme Court ruled that his actions amounted to the practice of law, which includes "the preparation of pleadings and the management of court proceedings." The Hous. Auth. Of the City of Charleston v. Key, 572 S.E.2d 284 (S.C. 2002).

Corporations. Though someone may represent himself or herself pro se, this exception applies only to individuals. A non-lawyer (officer, agent or employee) can only represent a corporation in civil magistrate's court. Because a corporation is an artificial entity created by law, it cannot represent itself. A corporation must be represented by a licensed attorney in circuit and appellate courts. Renaissance Enterprises, Inc. v. Summit Teleservices, Inc., 515 S.E.2d 257 (S.C. 1999).

A non-lawyer insurance representative/employee appeared before a State commissioner. Though an individual can appear on behalf of him or herself, a corporation cannot appear or act in person, and cannot practice law. The Court reasoned that, "f a corporation could appear in court through a layman upon the theory that it was appearing for itself, it could employ any person, not learned in the law, to present it in any or all judicial proceedings." State ex rel. Daniel v. Wells, 5 S.E.2d 181 (S.C. 1939).

Legal document computer programs. A businesswoman used a computer program to generate legal documents for other persons to be filed in family court. The Supreme Court found this activity amounted to the unauthorized practice of law when it involves "the giving of advice, consultation, explanation or recommendations on matters of law," and "instructing other individuals in the manner in which to prepare and execute such documents." South Carolina v. Despain, 460 S.E.2d 576 (S.C. 1995).

Exceptions. In addition to pro se representation and representation of a corporation before a magistrate's court, the Supreme Court has provided for several exceptions allowing a non-lawyer to engage in legal proceedings. State agencies may permit non-lawyers to appear and represent clients before it. Certified public accountants (CPAs) maintain a special status before the court. It is not the unauthorized practice of law for a CPA to represent clients before an agency or Probate Court if it is within his or her professional expertise and qualifications. Lastly, an arresting police officer does not engage in the unauthorized practice of law when he or she prosecutes traffic offenses in magistrate's court or a municipal court. In re Unauthorized Practice of Law Rules Proposed by the South Carolina Bar, 422 S.E.2d 123 (S.C. 1992).

What can I do if I suspect someone is practicing law without a license?
Contact your local solicitor or the South Carolina Office of the Attorney General; they enforce the criminal statutes prohibiting the unauthorized practice of law (UPL). You may also complete and submit this form (Word version) to assist the South Carolina Bar's UPL Committee to monitor such activity in this state and to assist authorities in taking appropriate action. The form is also available in pdf format.
 
Thanks, Denise, for the info.

I have used Alan for a past (non-escrow) timeshare sale. I will use his service on an upcoming (non-escrow) timeshare sale.

As stated on past "closing company" threads, his services are great for deed preparation when no escrow is required. It sure beats having to pay $300-$500 when no escrow is needed.
 
Thanks to both!

I would like to say that I appreciate the whole discussion. I appreciate the opportunity to learn more about this individual providing the closing service and I also appreciate the other perspective also. In the end, each person can choose their own path.

Thanks to both sides!
 
I appreciate Dave's obvious expertise in this area - thanks for taking the time to explain everything.

But if I'm giving away a free timeshare, and my choice is the $375 attorney closing, or the $25 do-it-yourself closing, I am choosing the $25 closing every time. If I am buying or selling a TS worth thousands, then the full closing with the attorney makes sense to me, but not for a free TS. YMMV :hi:
 
I'd laugh too..

I started laughing when I read yet another post from you on this thread referring to Alan needing to prove he can handle escrow funds and Denise and others saying again that Alan doesn't offer escrow! You are going around in circles. So it appears that no one can possibly address your question to your satisfaction because you don't seem to accept the answer that Alan doesn't offer escrow. Then it seems really unfair for you to charge Denise "refusing to discuss the subject" because she has; you just appeared to miss her answers.

I actually didn't know that Alan didn't offer escrow services. I don't think this aspect came up in the past as I've simply questioned the ridiculously low fee! If it did, I apologize that I didn't pay attention to the responses.

If Alan isn't holding any funds, that basically alleviates my main concern! The mishandling of "escrow" by many of the mom & pop and postcard closing companies is an issue that I don't think ever gets enough attention. Far too many simply provide no actual consumer protection and when things go bad- it feeds the negative stereotype of the entire industry.

Obviously, there are some legal issues that revolve around his business model. In time, he may well have to cease and desist in certain states. The states may even attempt to charge him with a felony. I truly hope not, because I can see that he has been a great help to many of the members here- who readily state that they'll use him again!

In my opinion, as long as the individuals that use his service are aware of both the positive and negative aspects of his model and are able to make an informed choice- that's all that matters. I certainly don't blame anyone for using him while he is in business, his price is fantastic!

I only pushed this thread in this direction because it was only involving his business, and wasn't simply an individual referral to someone asking on an independent subject. I'm comfortable that this thread has presented both sides sufficiently.
 
I will only add that I have used Alan's business several times when selling a timeshare. In fact, I plan to use him again very soon. His price is excellent for the service that he provides. I have updated Deeds myself on several occasions, but using Alan's service took less time and was certainly worth every dollar. Thanks TUG.
 
If a non-lawyer prepares a deed for someone else (you are allowed to do your own legal work), in Iowa that could lead to an unauthorized practice of law action, etc.

Non-lawyers can prepare mortgages, declarations of value, groundwater hazard statements, releases, but NOT deeds.

Iowa can and has gone after such cases.
 
If a non-lawyer prepares a deed for someone else (you are allowed to do your own legal work), in Iowa that could lead to an unauthorized practice of law action, etc.

Non-lawyers can prepare mortgages, declarations of value, groundwater hazard statements, releases, but NOT deeds.

Iowa can and has gone after such cases.

If I was to choose Alan to help me prepare my transfer, why would I be concerned about your point here? I don't see any risk for me and hopefully Alan has sought out his own counsel before he got involved in this type of service.
 
How does LegalZoom(and others)get away with doing all kinds of legal stuff? I got my corps thru an outfit like that.
 
Alan, can we hear from you?
 
Patri - I don't know how Alan can discuss the services he provides, without unintentially violating the TUG posting rules, so asking him to do so, puts him in an awkward position. I suggest that you send him a private message if you have more questions that haven't been answered in this thread.
 
This is Alan(TTT). Just for clarification of what WE DO NOT DO:
We do not hold escrow or get involved in any money issues, spacebanking issues, maint. fees issues or any money issues other then paying for our service.
We do not do title work, title search or offer title insurance.
We do not do estoppels, or due diligance.
We ARE NOT ATTORNEYS. I am a U.S.Postmaster(Retired)and Barbara is retired from US Postal Inspection Service where she worked as a Forfiture Specialist.

We are a document preparation company that prepares deeds at the direction of whoever is paying our fee. We have extensive experience with thousands of deeds properly prepared and recorded since 1999. We started doing deedwork for our own Company, no longer in existance, and continued doing deedwork for several companies and Tug members, through referrals.

Our PRIMARY customers are those gettting free timeshares or buying for $1.00, although we have assisted buyers/sellers in all price ranges including lots of Marriotts, Hyatt's, etc..

We try to provide a quality service and a bargain price for those who don't need Title Insurance & Escrow for a cheap purchase. Consider the alternatives...and the cost.

Am I practicing law without a license? I hope not! No one has told me to stop. If I'm told to, I will certainly comply.... but consider who loses....the poor timeshare purchaser who paid retail, couldn't get a decent exchange through RCI, and now has to pay $350. to a Full Service Closing Company to get rid of the burden...
Hope this helps those who had questions in this thread, I'm available for questions, please send me an email or PM..

Moderators, lease feel free to edit out anything that appears to be an advertising, we do no advertising, free or otherwise...
 
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Alan - your post is fine - thanks for responding! :hi:
 
Well, I am not a lawyer, so I cannot say what is legal or illegal here, but comparing the closing companies on ebay which have no licenses or true escrow services and charge $399 - $599, I believe Alan's business is much more ethical than them.
If you purchase a timeshare on ebay for $1, you still have to pay hefty closing cost and you have no option to choose closing co.
On TUG, here are many free timeshares too and buyers don't have to pay $399-$599 closing cost for them, they just pay $25 or $75 for transfer process.
Personally, I have used almost 10 closing companies which include the most recommended one on TUG. This time, I am using Alan's service ($75) and it is exactly the same as $499 service.
 
Alan, thanks for jumping in here. I cannot thank you enough for the services you have provided to me in the past. Hopefully, I will be contacting you again soon for a timeshare I am planning to sell. Your service is worth every dime, and some.
 
Well, I am not a lawyer, so I cannot say what is legal or illegal here, but comparing the closing companies on ebay which have no licenses or true escrow services and charge $399 - $599, I believe Alan's business is much more ethical than them.
If you purchase a timeshare on ebay for $1, you still have to pay hefty closing cost and you have no option to choose closing co.
On TUG, here are many free timeshares too and buyers don't have to pay $399-$599 closing cost for them, they just pay $25 or $75 for transfer process.
Personally, I have used almost 10 closing companies which include the most recommended one on TUG. This time, I am using Alan's service ($75) and it is exactly the same as $499 service.

Exactly. I have been through seven resale closings and I have no way of knowing whether or not there was an attorney involved with any of the deed preparations. Two of the closings involved a title company with an established track record for non-timeshare real estate, so I am guessing they had their ducks in a row, but I will never know for sure what and who was involved in the actual closing process with any of my timeshares since I only saw the end result.
 
That is so considerate of North Carolina to take such good care of their attorneys. :whoopie: Most of them that I know are just barely making ends meet!

Actually KP, NC has the same requirements as SC which is what brought all this up, but if you read further up, Iowa considers the preparation of deeds as the practice of law, as does Florida and a host of other states.

What you are all failing to see it is the preparation of the legal insturment for others for a fee. That is what lawyers do, and they have the scholling and the training to ask the right questions.

I want play internet doctor for those that only have a dollar. If I do that and charge $25 for my consultation, would the medical community have an issue of me practicing medicine if I am not a Doctor. I do have access to WebMD does that count?

The answer is I can't legally do that either, so in that case I guess all the medical boards are protecting real doctors... the shame in it...
 
Attorney Not Necessary

:ponder:

You may want to ask about that... Being a respected TUG member is wonderful, but last time I checked didn't qualify as a right to practice real estate law..

I'm not trying to bash his business, just recommending caution and due diligence by those who would choose to purchase it... Your opinion is respected in this venue- perhaps more than it should be by newbies, who likely would simply take your post as gospel and not question anything.

You push this business all the time, and I'd hate to see it end up being another black eye for TUG!

Alan may well be a tremendous value, but if he isn't licensed to practice law in the state where the property is located (and as a result have both oversight and protection for the client's funds held in escrow), there may well be some risk for his clients. If they understand and accept that risk- fine.... But haven't we already seen what can happen when people simply accept in good "faeth" that everything is ok with a TUG recommended closing agent without doing their own research..

Recently I purchased a second home and the home was only in my name when it closed. After receiving the deed from the County Recorder, I wanted to have my wifes and sons names on the deed. After researching how to best go about this, I decided to have a company that specializes in this do the paper work for me. They are NOT attorneys, state this up front and have you acknowledge this in the contract with them. The process was completed in 1 day with minimum cost. This was something I could have performed myself, but, time constrants made it worthwhile to have it done by someone else.
Sometimes, some groups of people think they are the only ones capable of performing certain tasks and get a little tweeked when others cut into what they perceive to be their jurisdiction.
 
Recently I purchased a second home and the home was only in my name when it closed. After receiving the deed from the County Recorder, I wanted to have my wifes and sons names on the deed. After researching how to best go about this, I decided to have a company that specializes in this do the paper work for me. They are NOT attorneys, state this up front and have you acknowledge this in the contract with them. The process was completed in 1 day with minimum cost. This was something I could have performed myself, but, time constrants made it worthwhile to have it done by someone else.
Sometimes, some groups of people think they are the only ones capable of performing certain tasks and get a little tweeked when others cut into what they perceive to be their jurisdiction.

but, in your case who told who what to put in the blocks did they tell you how to complete it or did you tell them how to fill in the blanks. That is the difference. Did they also tell you how to hod title be it joint tenats, tenants in common etc this is the area we are talking about.
 
Comparing MDs to LD is a bad analogy. You are allowed to represent yourself and write your legal instruments legally, but you can't write your scripts legally.
 
but, in your case who told who what to put in the blocks did they tell you how to complete it or did you tell them how to fill in the blanks. That is the difference. Did they also tell you how to hod title be it joint tenats, tenants in common etc this is the area we are talking about.

After I told them over the phone what I intented to accomplish from the name change on the deed and we discussed the various ways title could be held, they came to my office with the completed forms for me to sign and then they wired the signed forms to the county recorder. Couldn't have been easier.
I should also state this company came recommended by a friend who is a top real estate agent who knew of them so I felt comfortable doing this.
 
i am new to this sight and i want to use the $75 deed transfer service by alan but i dont know how to contact him.can u please help me
 
Please go to post #37 in this thread, and click on Alan's blue user name (ttt) to send him an email.
 
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