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Negativity

sherilah

TUG Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
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Location
Redondo Beach, CA
It makes me feel sad that there is so much negativity with regards to Starwood. This is our first years as owners and have, so far, loved it. I hope all the negativity turns around soon. I'd like to see some positive posts soon.

Sorry, just had to vent.

Sheri
 
Sheri

I am still in the "enjoying my ownership" camp with you.

Some of the threads of recent weeks, do give me pause and concern.

Tom
 
I am not an owner, but we did enjoy exchanging into Sheraton Broadway in Myrtle Beach, SC.
 
I hear you but most of us have been owners a lot longer and have seen dramatic, customer-unfriendly changes.

Yes, we love the resorts and the units and certainly love our vacations. But one has to wonder just how many more things they can unilaterally change that will adversely affect our rights.

I bought my Starwood because they represented the best mix of beauty and luxury. They still do. I hope they return to valuing the product and the owners more.
 
Have you read the reasons for the negativity towards Starwood? If not take the time and read about the way Starwood has changed rules and has increased maintenance fees dramatically. Starwood owners arent complaining for no reason.
 
It makes me feel sad that there is so much negativity with regards to Starwood. This is our first years as owners and have, so far, loved it. I hope all the negativity turns around soon. I'd like to see some positive posts soon.

Sorry, just had to vent.

Sheri

Well said :clap:

We are also very much enjoying our ownership and are off to WKV, spend quality time with family and play a little golf.
 
Thanks to fighting tuggers

I agree that those of us who bought the TS for use and occasional exchange are still very happy with the experiences. Even with the higher MF's, they are still great accomodations value, especially for families.

Most of the complaints I think are coming from wise tuggers who managed to get GREAT trades, like trading a small 1 Br. SDO for a 2 Br in exotic places.

I thank all of these tuggers for leading the fight with Starwood because they are pointing out some very disturbing possible changes that will affect all of us and cetainly the value of our TS.

In spite of all the negativity, I hope we can still enjoy wonderful vacations and have a little empathy for the front line Starwood employees who really can't change anything!
 
Have you read the reasons for the negativity towards Starwood? If not take the time and read about the way Starwood has changed rules and has increased maintenance fees dramatically. Starwood owners arent complaining for no reason.

I couldn't agree more. Please take the time to understand our complaints. I've talked to quite a few owners who were blissfully ignorant until they took the time to understand the details and impact of what Starwood changed. Now they are adding their names to George's list. The more folks who speak out about what Starwood broke, the better for them to understand they need to fix it.

Some of the most active complaints and open dialogue with Starwood is being driven by Starwood's biggest defenders in the past. The folks being 'negative' here are doing so on behalf of the best long term interests for all of us. They need all our support. Without it, many more folks will be complaining as they realize things get worse in the years ahead, but it may be too late to do anything about it. We want Starwood to listen and fix the problem they created, so that we may return to being happy and positive customers again.
 
I've owned Starwood resorts for about 7-8 years now. I love all the resorts ... from the least expensive (SVR -- my dd has sooooo many wonderful memories from that place), to the more expensive ones (HRA, WSJ). They're beautiful, fun places to visit.

But, I own several other timeshare systems as well, and Starwood is the ONLY one that causes undue headaches. If we could vote tomorrow to have Hilton or Hyatt takeover, I'd jump at the chance.

As negative as I am lately, I'm still hoping for a turnaround. We've got to resolve the issues around:
-- escalating maintenance fees
-- special assessments without representation or full accounting
-- HOA transparency (I get owner bios to make informed decisions when voting in HOA reprsentatives at all my other timeshares)
-- revenue alternatives ("adopt a week" programs or rental income to the HOA) for delinquent owners
-- float availability at the 10-month mark for HRA and WSJ fixed week owners (i.e., are they picking weeks off for SPG conversions at a huge profit to Starwood)

No matter how happy we are with the resorts, we have to remember that we are the OWNERS. Starwood has every right to earn a fair management fee (even a premium management fee, as we should be benefiting from their reputation and brand reliability). But, we're sitting ducks if we don't take responsibility for ensuring that the operations are run to our benefit, not theirs.
 
Yes, in spite of all the negativity, I will continue to enjoy wonderful vacations with my family. When I don't post for seven nights, you will know where I am. :cool: I will continue to do this with or without II & Starwood. They are not the only game in town.

Of course, everyone should always remain calm, rational and respectful when complaining to other employees and owners. I will never support the cause of anyone yelling. The facts are on our side. If not, I would shut up about it. It is our job to spread awareness of those negative facts until a positive change occurs.
 
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I suppose I need to educate myself on everything going on. I read the posts, but some of them I don't quite understand. What are the exact changes Starwood has made recently that is causing all the commotion? Can someone post them in simple language? :shrug: :shrug: :)
 
I suppose I need to educate myself on everything going on. I read the posts, but some of them I don't quite understand. What are the exact changes Starwood has made recently that is causing all the commotion? Can someone post them in simple language? :shrug: :shrug: :)

Gosh, we've been asking Starwood to do this for months. :hysterical:

One of my complaints that affects everyone is the loss of true 'request first' exchange with II:
You must cancel your valid reservation at your home resort first in order to assign a generic week to II for 'request first' purposes. If II doesn't offer what you want in a timely fashion, you must cancel and reassign back to Starwood. At this point, it is highly likely that your desired dates are no longer available at your home resort. Depending on your timing, you may end up with absolutely nothing left there. Meanwhile, for many different reasons, you may still see the week that you used to have reserved (and still want) now available for $$RENT MONEY$$ by Starwood. It used to be you could book what you wanted and wait to see if something better came along. After all, you OWN your week. So if II didn't offer you a desirable request first exchange, you could keep your fabulous vacation at your home resort. Not anymore! :mad:
 
I've owned Starwood resorts for about 7-8 years now. I love all the resorts ... from the least expensive (SVR -- my dd has sooooo many wonderful memories from that place), to the more expensive ones (HRA, WSJ). They're beautiful, fun places to visit.

But, I own several other timeshare systems as well, and Starwood is the ONLY one that causes undue headaches. If we could vote tomorrow to have Hilton or Hyatt takeover, I'd jump at the chance.

As negative as I am lately, I'm still hoping for a turnaround. We've got to resolve the issues around:
-- escalating maintenance fees
-- special assessments without representation or full accounting
-- HOA transparency (I get owner bios to make informed decisions when voting in HOA reprsentatives at all my other timeshares)
-- revenue alternatives ("adopt a week" programs or rental income to the HOA) for delinquent owners
-- float availability at the 10-month mark for HRA and WSJ fixed week owners (i.e., are they picking weeks off for SPG conversions at a huge profit to Starwood)

No matter how happy we are with the resorts, we have to remember that we are the OWNERS. Starwood has every right to earn a fair management fee (even a premium management fee, as we should be benefiting from their reputation and brand reliability). But, we're sitting ducks if we don't take responsibility for ensuring that the operations are run to our benefit, not theirs.

Bravo, jerseygirl! Your post is succinct, eloquent, and smack on accurate. I would simply add one thing: Starwood is playing with fire, because we Starwood owners have the most invested in Starwood for our future accommodations. That means we're at once Starwood's potentially biggest fans or most vocal critics.

One would think that Starwood would bend over backwards to make us happy, so that we would spread the gospel of the Starwood brand to other potential buyers. That's what used to happen. Not anymore. Their recent unilateral changes to the program have diminished our ownership value and have made many owners among Starwood's most vocal, intelligent, and motivated critics.
 
It makes me feel sad that there is so much negativity with regards to Starwood. This is our first years as owners and have, so far, loved it. I hope all the negativity turns around soon. I'd like to see some positive posts soon.

Sorry, just had to vent.

Sheri

Hi Sheri - Most of us still love the resorts, and our concerns are with the decisions being made by management.

For instance, what if you bought a beautiful, new, very expensive car, but then the dealer began tinkering with the warranty on that car. Every time you tried to get promised service, the rules were different, and you found out that the service that you had been promised when you bought the car, had all been changed, without notice - wouldn't you still love your new car, but be furious with the dealer? That's where I am with Starwood, today....

BTW - Kudos to you for ASKING about the issues...there are a number of other owners who prefer to bury their heads in the sand so they can "feel good" about buying from Starwood, without facing the ugly management issues that the rest of us are fighting, for the benefit of ALL owners!
 
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Denise -- excellent analogy -- the teacher in you is coming out! :)

Walnut Baron -- thank you. I'm usually not succinct ... so thanks for noticing!
 
Hi Sheri - Most of us still love the resorts, and our concerns are with the decisions being made by management.

For instance, what if you bought a beautiful, new, very expensive car, but then the dealer began tinkering with the warranty on that car. Every time you tried to get promised service, the rules were different, and you found out that the service that you had been promised when you bought, had all been changed, without notice - wouldn't you still love your new car, but be furious with the dealer? That's where I am with Starwood, today....
I agree with Denise. I still love the resorts. My beef is with corporate, not local management.

Disclaimer first: I do not know what back room deal Starwood struck with II to go along with all this zaniness. There is no formal legal affiliation documentation that I've seen yet.

Starwood turned my ownership and separate membership with II into 'Let's Make a Deal'. If I want to 'request first', I need to give up my great reservation, which I legally own, in exchange for a 'mystery week' to assign to II. Then II needs to determine the value of that 'mystery week' and decide what to offer me for it. How does II know what's behind door number 3? They need to offer me an exchange for my 'mystery' prize first. Then, they are stuck with whatever reservation week Starwood put in that envelope. If I were II, I would offer much less for a 'mystery week' than for a 'known and fixed reservation'. Knowing which actual week is offered for trade at any given time allows II to perform real-time internal inventory management. That will then let II determine first what their current supply/demand is. Then, II can decide what our exchange is really worth to them before offering anything in trade. That is why, no surprise here, our weeks do not trade as well under the new system. II must assume the possibility of getting zonked with less desirable seasonal weeks.

Some weeks are much harder to dispose of than others. We've all seen summer getaways at SDO available for a tiny fraction of owner MF. By applying these new rules to non-seasonal ownerships, Starwood has transformed these ownership away from the original design and legal contractual agreements. SDO 1-52 was a system designed and sold as a rolling 12 month window, first-come, first-served ownership. Fair or unfair we can argue all day with those owners who now want to sit and wait around until the last minute to try to use their ownership. However, the rules are what they are, that is the rules which were originally marketed, sold and everyone contractually agreed to. Now we have a system where all legacy contract owners can only offer 'the risk of the lowest common denominator' with our 'mystery week' to II when we want to exchange. If you do not like what II offers you, surprise, your original reservation is likely no longer available. That is, you may get zonked. What right does Starwood have to interfere with how owners decide to use their OWN week?

I do not believe what I've been told without the 'fine print'. I do not believe there is an averaging for all weeks of the year, evenly, to create a season as has been claimed by Starwood. I think there is only what Starwood has leftover and wants to give up at the time. How could it be any different? Why did II agree to this?

I'm too old to dance around Monty Hall and dress everyday like it's Halloween. Starwood must legally stay out of a private transaction between owners and II (or any other 3rd party for that matter). SDO HOA members have a fiduciary responsibility to all dues paying owners and must not agree to go along with this new system or else they open themselves to scrutiny. II must be careful not to craft affiliation agreements which could be viewed as violating important anti-trust consumer protections or else they do as well. I refuse to play 'Let's Make a Deal'. As owners, we do not have to.
 
BTW - The 'L' in my alias stands for Love. Yes, I love to trade. Now, there is something positive for you.
 
Denise......well said....love the analogy!

I also love the Let's Make a Deal reference.....now I got it!!!

What can we do, as owners to get changes made? Maybe we made a mistake by buying Starwood, and should've gone w/Marriott.
 
Sheri - One of the Tuggers who is actively involved in these issues consulted an attorney, and he advised that the first step is a letter writing campaign to II and Starwood to show a ground-swell of support.

Many of us have written those letters and received responses, which show that Starwood is starting to be concerned. For more info., send a private message to gmarine (George) who has all the details and sample letters to share.
 
Denise......well said....love the analogy!

I also love the Let's Make a Deal reference.....now I got it!!!

What can we do, as owners to get changes made? Maybe we made a mistake by buying Starwood, and should've gone w/Marriott.

Thank you! We need to continue to let Starwood know how we feel about the changes. I hope enough owners doing this will get them to understand that this issue will not just 'go away over time'. I will not give up. For the record, I loved Starwood before they did this. My ownership lacks seasons, so the cons of the new system far outweigh the pros as it relates to II exchanges. The benefits Starwood claims we now have don't really compensate for the damage done to our legacy weeks. We've done trade tests on TUG that validate this.

I can love Starwood again. First, they must listen to us and enact an opt-out compromise for these legacy deeded weeks and voluntary resorts. Gmarine recently offered this compromise to them as outlined in this thread:
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109225

If that happens, I'm sure many of us would be able to honestly point out the positives of ownership again. My quest is for the truth. I'm seeking to expose the truth, so we can achieve a positive long term outcome for all owners. We need this issue resolved. Doing so honestly and transparently will help everyone in the much bigger quest to resolve the issue of delinquencies. We don't need another sucker born, we need true value and good customer service.

As for Marriott, I still love them. My only gripe is that they exercised their ROFR against me. I couldn't buy what I almost got lucky to get resale. No real complaints from me on that one. Marriott was well in their rights to do that. Doing so put a bottom price on resale values for all their existing owners. I don't mean to open a can of worms on the whole ROFR topic. Let's save that for another thread. I just wished Starwood cared the same about Sheraton Desert Oasis resale values as Marriott did about the property I tried to buy too cheap. Yeah Marriott! :cheer:
 
If that happens, I'm sure many of us would be able to honestly point out the positives of ownership again...

This doesn't stop with the II issues, which are a legitimate gripe.

In my eyes, the bigger issues are the MFs and lack of transparency when it comes to availability at resorts. MFs are growing at unsustainable rates at all resorts. While owners at SDO and SBP don't really notice or care about the effect on resale values because those are voluntary properties with already low resale values (and MFs are lower there to begin with - but still climbing fast), owners in high-end mandatory properties have seen the value of their properties plummet. WKORV resale values alone have gone down by about 30% in the last 2 months and 60% in the past two years. HRA and WSJ values have also dropped substantially. While Starwood may want you to focus on the economy or maui tax issues (what are they doing to combat those anyway?), the main culprit are the MFs which are causing more and more owners to dump their properties and less buyers want to buy them. The delinquencies passed on to owners, and lack of transparency about rentals to cover them, exacerbate matters even more.

Apparently Marriott has been able to mostly contain MF increases this year... (they don't have delinquencies?). Worldmark caps MF increases at 5% contractually and sustains the model (are they not affected by energy costs, delinquencies, etc?) With Starwood you get the feeling like they constantly take advantage of their owners in any way they can - renting out prime weeks at owners' availability expense, MFs are out of control, the II issues, HOA control etc - hence the recent negativity on these boards.

Jerseygirl did a great job outlining the main issues that need to be rectified before this becomes a good product to own.

By the way, there has been some discussion that MFs in 2009 were high possibly because of high energy costs they had to budget for. If that is the case, then they definitely overbudgeted - are we getting a refund? Oh - I forgot, we don't get that level of transparency...

I too have been a loyal and big fan of Starwood, like many others on here. That is probably the reason why most of us bought Starwood TS, many of us more than once. Many if not most of us also patronize them by going to their hotels and charging purchases on their Amex. However, I cannot in good conscience recommend their timesharing product these days to anyone. I fear that it may even be too late to stop this cycle that they have started with their greed (rising MFs -> delinquencies -> rising MFs etc). I hope they do something to remedy this or the value of all these great timeshares will be less than a gallon of 87 octane gasoline...

Since this is a thread asking for more positive posts - I'll save any additional venting I have to other threads :)
 
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My only gripe is that they exercised their ROFR against me. I couldn't buy what I almost got lucky to get resale. No real complaints from me on that one. Marriott was well in their rights to do that. Doing so put a bottom price on resale values for all their existing owners. I don't mean to open a can of worms on the whole ROFR topic. Let's save that for another thread. I just wished Starwood cared the same about Sheraton Desert Oasis resale values as Marriott did about the property I tried to buy too cheap. Yeah Marriott! :cheer:

Must have been awhile back as they aren't taking anything at any price now. Go shopping and you'll most likely find your previous "buy" at an even better price. Neither company care anything about resale value only their own bottom line. Don't kid yourself that it's anything else.
 
Must have been awhile back as they aren't taking anything at any price now. Go shopping and you'll most likely find your previous "buy" at an even better price. Neither company care anything about resale value only their own bottom line. Don't kid yourself that it's anything else.

Thanks for the heads up! :)

There are some Marriott properties we love visiting over and over again. That's why I originally decided to buy resale years ago. I just took a quick look at recent resale prices. Yes, you are right. It is clear that Marriott's ROFR saved me far more money than I care to admit on this board. I still do not own Marriott, but I've gotten many lovely gifts for trying. So, sorry Tuggers, but thank you again Marriott! Marriott, you really saved me a bundle!!! Hope to see you again (rental/trade only) soon! :cheer:
 
John - I am regularly accused of being too "militant" about this issue, than is "appropriate" for a TUG moderator, by the people who don't want to hear anything bad about the TS's they spent so much money on - I just point them at your posts!

Thanks for keeping the faith, Brotha! ;)
 
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