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Need some hand-holding with 4 days left to recind

Fee amounts are not in the documents

By "bailing", I meant rescinding in the next 48 hours.

The fees are written in the contract, but I guess I'll look a little harder.

One of the few things written in contracts that aren't binding are any amount for the annual fees. In fact I'll bet its not in the contract but in the closing documents that should say what the current year fees will be (and most likely charge you for it) but not what they will be even next year as that number will be set in the next budget by the Board. It is seldom known more than a few months ahead of time.
 
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with no equity or tax considerations.

Oh please forget about any equity. Ten years ago we sunk tens of thousands into TS after a salesman told us it was an investment. He reminded us it is deeded property and real estate continually appreciates. Our children would be able to inherit real deeded property and a lifetime of vacations from us.

Now we finally see the reality of what we have. Real estate does not necessarily continually increase in value. Our children will inherit from us a somewhat complicated vacation system with an annual tax and maintenance fee obligation. They might not be able to afford these (now escalated from back when we purchased) fees on their New Economy incomes. We can already see that they are not now interested in vacationing in resorts.

Buying a TS from the developer is worse than buying a new car. At least a new car retains some of its value when you drive it off the lot. A TS can sometimes be found going for $1 on Ebay the day after it is purchased. In some situations, owners have trouble finding someone to take the TS obligation off their hands when they offer to pay all expenses of the transfer.

You think your family will continue to use the TS and the day use is alluring. What happens if, Heaven forbid, someone in the family gets sick or loses a job?

How much are these annual Real Estate taxes you will be getting an ongoing tax credit for?

If you decide not to rescind, then welcome to our forum. Please share our wealth of knowledge and add what you learn. For your family with your desire for day use, this may be the decisions right for you. At least you have been given a look at all sides of this; so you can make the best decision that can be made for you.
 
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You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

:deadhorse:

More aptly, you can lead a man to data but you can't make him think.

It sounds to me as if our OP is seriously considering spending ~$11,000 + associated annual fees to buy something that will have zero (if not negative) value the minute he takes possession, all for the sake of getting revocable day use privileges.
 
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OK- I get it. If I have to assume that day-use deal will likely be gone in 3 years once build-out is done, and the property isn't likely to be worth anything once we want to exit, then it's probably too risky. Glad I went to find the info as early as possible. If I could get them to guarantee the facilities use, it *might* be worth it in the long run, but I'm guessing that since they didn't include the Membership Plan Rules and Regulations, that I should take that as a bad sign. :wall:

Is there a "day use" deal IN THE CONTRACT? I should ask our friends, too, but if it's not in the contract, it's just a promise by the sales staff that will last as long as they last....

When our friends found out we bought our dream timeshare on ebay for $152.50 + $549 in closing costs, they were so disappointed in their own purchase. That was our last ebay purchase: a week at Val Chatelle in Frisco, 3 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, full-sized washer and dryer, hot tub on the deck of each unit, etc. They stayed there before, so they were very impressed that we found a ski week. The units where we own are being sold as wholly owned for $400K in Frisco, but the timeshares are going for $152.50 per week. So much for the value of timeshare as "real estate."

We bought our first blue week at Val Chatelle, from the developer, back in 1983 for $3,750. That was a lot of money back then. We could have bought a decent new car, so I know of what I speak...
 
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Cindy - see his response about this in post #46 - it is very vague. (Not his post - the usage terms.)
 
An added thought.

You might want to look closely at the financial statements and see if the developer is subsidizing annual fees.

*****

Our first purchase, which we rescinded, was at the Marriott Kauai Beach Club back in 1999. We had no intention of purchasing, and were sold.

Being the somewhat retentive type that I am, I actually spent time back in our hotel room reviewing the paperwork that they gave us. When I looked at the financial statements I noted that there was a subsidy by Marriott for resort annual fees. If I took out that subsidy, those $650 annual fees that we were looking at were more more like $1000.

We had a variety or reasons for rescinding, one of which was that subsidy. Looking at the resort property, I simply couldn't see how annual fees at the resort could be essentially the same as other timeshares on Kauai that had to have much lower expenses.

About three or four years later the resort sold out, and Marriott shut down the sales office. With no more sales, Marriott eliminated the subsidy, and timeshare owners saw their annual fees jump by about $500. With fee increases that had occurred since we bought and rescinded, that unit with $650 annual fees that we were shown now had annual fees of more than $1500.
 
Cindy - see his response about this in post #46 - it is very vague. (Not his post - the usage terms.)
Thanks, Denise, I did go back and read the post on the contract wording. Very vague, and no promise of availability.

I can see the ski week owners having fits because they paid $45K and others are using their facilities without paying the high cost of owning ski weeks, and the board members will be the high-dollar owners, too. Plus, if a person with a 3 bedroom unit has more than one car, that automatically takes a parking space out of the picture. It's a sales pitch for the locals, that's for sure.

So many people being sold this feature....
 
I don't think so, myself...

The cynical side of me is thinking that the OP might me a schill?

I don't share that particular belief, but I am nonetheless a bit perplexed that the OP seems unable (and /or unwilling) to fully grasp and accept that he is actually considering paying $11k today for something he likely couldn't sell on eBay for a buck tomorrow and which (at virtually anytime, at developer whim) may cease to offer the "day use" privileges on which he is apparently so focused. :confused: :shrug: :confused:
 
We have so many friends who have attended timeshare sales presentations and purchased from the developer, and it doesn't matter that they know we bought an oceanfront Maui week for less than $1,600 (and $1,100 of that amount was resort transfer fees to Consolidated Resorts of $550 for each EOY week to make it annual use), or that we bought our ski week for $700, in the resort we love. They are dazzled by the presentations, and they tell us well after the rescind period, too, so we are never able to help them rescind. Often, these friends have big regrets.

Even my aunt bought a timeshare from Wyndham, and she has heard us talk so many times about our wonderful timeshare experiences, but we neglected to tell her about resale, or she would have gone that direction, too, because she is frugal and very much like me in that respect. She is only 2 1/2 years older than I, so we have always been more like sisters, and she really regrets not calling me from the sales table to ask what she should do.

I started warning everyone about buying from the develper after that incident, and now I feel like a broken record. But how do you warn people without sounding like a timeshare addict. :rofl: My kids tell me I get a little ridiculous with the timeshare talk, which is mostly to warn people, so they don't make a mistake like this.

When day-use privileges are gone at Peak 7, what do you have left? A blue week, when kids are in school, and the trading power of that week will be dismal with II. Plus, I was able to get our son and his friends 3 ski weeks this season, two at the resorts right there in Breck: including one at Gold Point for mid-March in a 3 bedroom unit. Same developer, bigger units, and this was Josh's and his friends' favorite unit, though it's older.

They really loved the size of the unit and the location to the slopes. They also stayed at Grand Timber in a 3 bedroom, too, and they liked it okay, but it wasn't as quiet there for sleeping. They liked that it was newer and really nicely furnished and a bit more upgraded because it was newer. Gold Point is probably ready for a refurb, and I sure hope they have the funds to accomplish that refurb; otherwise, there's going to be a special assessment. That week at GT was at the end of January (Brrrr). These trades were with Foxrun summer weeks, so the total cost was $630 maintenance fees + $139 exchange fee. Josh is on our II account, so no guest certificate necessary....

The third exchange for last winter was at Lakeside Terrace with a Sheraton Broadway Plantation, in the preference period for Starwood owners. I got a two bedroom ski week with a 1 bed studio side. I was very pleased with the cost of that one.
 
......our last ebay purchase: a week at Val Chatelle in Frisco, 3 bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths.......... The units where we own are being sold as wholly owned for $400K in Frisco, but the timeshares are going for $152.50 per week. So much for the value of timeshare as "real estate."
Fabulous buy!!! Back when I used to take my kids sking we always tried to stay at Val Chatelle. Not only did we love the units; we loved the town of Frisco; and we loved the location of Frisco, sort of central to Keystone, Breckenridge and Copper Mountain.

George
 
Shill, Schmyll.

The cynical side of me is thinking that the OP might me a schill?
Never happen.

I mean, what success could any shill expect from touting full-freight timeshares on TUG-BBS ?

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
To OP...

I just paid $500 ($1 winning bid and $499 closing fees) TOTAL for a red week at a gold crown resort in Daytona Beach... resale. MFs are only $492. Deals are out there.

Also, have you called the resort front desk and asked them about day use priviledges? They might tell you that ANY owner has day use priviledges, which would mean you can buy resale and still have priv there.

My question... How many times can you go to this, or any, resort for $11,000 (plus yearly MF) versus being an owner there??? If you bought a resale unit for say $1,000, with owner priviledges, what else can you do with that $10,000?
 
I was looking at old threads on Peak 7 and discovered the only people posting on TUG that have purchased there were Colorado residents. That tells me that the marketing to Denver-Boulder-Colorado Springs is huge.

One lady that lives north of me in Erie, directly East of Lafayette (so close to you, actually), bought a week at Peak 7 and posted her dismay about the fees she paid, which weren't as the salesperson promised. I talked to her on the phone, because it was a local call, and she was so upset that they purchased an off-season week, which would have poor trading power through II, as she discovered. I tried to find that thread, which I believe was about a year ago.
 
Fabulous buy!!! Back when I used to take my kids sking we always tried to stay at Val Chatelle. Not only did we love the units; we loved the town of Frisco; and we loved the location of Frisco, sort of central to Keystone, Breckenridge and Copper Mountain.

George

Thanks for saying that! George, I am so glad I saw the week before you! It's a unit we will use most years. The kids are all anxious to use it this year. We are so happy to own such a great week, but the weeks are on a fixed rotating schedule, changing every three weeks, so next week it's week 3, the next is week 6, the next is week 9, then week 12, etc., and it's a ski rotating week, so it doesn't rotate to any week not ski season. We feel very fortunate because exchanging back into the resort was not easy. The hot tub on the outside deck is such a wonderful thing after a long day.
 
Thanks, Denise, I did go back and read the post on the contract wording. Very vague, and no promise of availability.

I can see the ski week owners having fits because they paid $45K and others are using their facilities without paying the high cost of owning ski weeks, and the board members will be the high-dollar owners, too. Plus, if a person with a 3 bedroom unit has more than one car, that automatically takes a parking space out of the picture. It's a sales pitch for the locals, that's for sure.

So many people being sold this feature....

Based on that language alone you can be sure that if the resort has a high (80, 90 - some relatively high number) occupancy then the day use privileges would be suspended until the in house utilization dropped. For the very reasons you mention. You cannot tell your prime week buyer they don't have a parking spot because a blue week owner is there for the day.

The feature will only be honored when its convenient for the resort and may or may not be totally revocable in the future. I sure wouldn't risk $11K for it.
 
TISK TISK
I really wish the person would listen to the wisdom of everyone on the TUG forum.. It is possible the salesman pitched the timeshare so well that they are believing them and not Tug members.

It will be a lesson learned...


:cheer: :cheer:
 
You Typed A Mouthful.

It is possible the salesman pitched the timeshare so well that they are believing them and not Tug members.
That's approximately what I was trying to say.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​
 
Based on his last few posts, I believe he is going to rescind, so let's not beat him up too much, K? ;)

At one point, most of us drank the Kool Aide, too! (ME! :D)
 
Great
that would be good news
I hope they do listen, then as time goes on they will feel better and understand more about timesharing...

It is like buying a new car or a new home-educate yourself and learn before you buy....


:cheer: :cheer:
 
I am also guilty of buying from the developer, but now I know better. There were two original developer purchases in the early 80's. Now I can get the same thing for free, in both cases. Both were overpriced and sold as the greatest thing since sliced bread. Oh how we all regret those purchases.

Trying to keep someone else from making a mistake seems to be the only right thing to do.

But as Alan always says, "So it goes."

You cannot un-sell the person who is really "sold" on the sales pitch, however pie-in-the-sky that pitch is.
 
For clarity:

I am rescinding. Going to the post office in a few minutes to send a certified letter (Thank you Denise for the link to instructions). I'm not convinced that the day use privileges are secure.

That being said - since this is a community dedicated to actual use/exchange of timeshares (overwhelmingly re-sales), maybe this forum isn't generally open to the appeal to the day use aspect. You guys actually use the vacation time, and that's great. The idea of focusing the Resort Privileges shouldn't be so outlandish to people who spend a couple of thousand to buy a membership to a Golf Club, with a couple thousand in annual dues, plus restaurant & guest fees, etc. Plenty of folks pay $5K to 10K a year to play <50 rounds of golf a year. My father in law is one of them. If we could use the facilities 20-30 times a year as a family for 15 years, and not worry about "capacity" or those rights being revoked or further restricted - then it would still be appealing to my family. (Whoever brought up the fact that our week is during school brought up a very good point - something I didn't really consider since my oldest isn't yet three).

It does also concern me that, in 17 years when our youngest goes to college and we no longer use it, that the annual MFs have risen x00% and we can't get rid of it. So, off to USPS.

For further discussion (and for others that might run across this thread in the future), here's the email I sent to our sales agent yesterday, with his answers in blue italics. Of course, he said he was also an owner. And no, I don't believe any of this; but I thought you all might find it interesting.

I was looking through the paperwork this morning, and I need to get a little clarification on the Resort Privileges. My buddy, a realtor, asked me if the Resort Privileges were guaranteed year-round after the build-out was complete. As you know, that's a big reason we signed the deal. So I guess we need to know a few answers: Yes, you will always have day use privileges.

1) What exactly are the regulations regarding year-round Resort Privileges? I couldn't find the Membership Plan or Rules in the packet - can you please forward that? You have everything in your owners packet. Plus you have the Certificate from the developer which I signed. [Note- not in the packet]

2) If they can be changed, under what circumstances can they be changed? I don’t think this can be changed unless the HOA decides to change it. But why would they (we).

3) What are the current rules regarding transfer of those Privileges? They are not transferable under any circumstances until the developer sells out. Then they will be fully transferable.

4) Who gets to decide any changes once that build out is complete and it's no longer owned by the developer? Home owners association.

I guess our concern is that once the build-out is complete, the HOA could determine that only ski season owners could use the parking and facilities year round, etc. Thanks for the information. If you could get back to me as soon as possible, that would be great. Everyone has an equal voice on with the HOA. Other owners would never approve the scenario mentioned above.

Please contact me with any other questions you have.


Thanks to everyone who took the time to read my posts and offered sincere and needed advice.
 
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What a load !!!

So glad you did not believe it.

elaine
 
That being said - since this is a community dedicated to actual use/exchange of timeshares (overwhelmingly re-sales), maybe this forum isn't generally open to the appeal to the day use aspect.

If the day use was guaranteed for all eternity and the rules were set in stone, that would be one thing, but as your found out - they aren't. In fact you have zero guarantees that you will have day use in the future. I'm sure you wouldn't buy into a country club where they could take away your usage at any time, but still require you to pay the fees for all eternity...

Why were we suspicious? Because most of us have already been down this road with our own timeshares. We know that the board of directors can and will change the rules. In fact, management at my ridiculously expensive Maui TS just decided that even owners can no longer put in a room request!

BTW - saying that all owners get a say in all decisions was BS - it's the BOD's decision plain and simple. If you have 5 ski week owners on the BOD and the day users are infringing on their use of ski season, what do you think would happen? And it would all be perfectly legal!

Congrats on rescinding! :clap:
 
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