Need help out of contract!

[ronparise]

My experience with the Wyndham Department that handles rescissions (in Vegas) is that they are easy to deal with. I sent an email and that was enough. (I followed the email with a letter but they had already started the process without it). They did not try to "save" the sale. They simply processed the paperwork and sent us our deposit back. It didnt take much more time then it took my check to clear. Their job it seems to me is to protect the company from their sales staff.

Regarding the "pitch" reported by the op:

This is essentially what I heard at a recent presentation at National Harbor. The salesman said that most of his customers were VIP and didnt pay any maintenance fees, by: 1) using the Barclays credit card for all their routine expenses, groceries, cable bill, etc etc,. to earn Wyndhan rewards points s 2) refer friends and family to Wyndham to earn more Wyndham rewards points and 3) convert points to rewards points. All these rewards points can be converted at the rate of 10000 rewards points to $60 of maintenance fees.

This technique works best (according to the salesman) if you are Platinum VIP because the 50% discount in the express reservation window gives you the use of twice as many points as you own. So you use half your points for your vacations and the other half to exchange for the rewards points.

My response...its fuzzy math.

my maintenance fees on the 600000 points I own is about $3000 a year.....If I was to buy another 1000000 points at National Harbor my additional fees would be about $3500 So now Id have 1600000 points and $6500 a year in fees maintenance.......Now Im currently using 600000 points If I was platinum VIP and used the 50% discount I only need 300000 for my own use, and Id have 1300000 points to convert to rewards points which convert to dollars. If my math is right it would be just over $3100....I dont have any friends, so I cant earn anything by refering them to Wyndham so I have to make up the rest with a Barclays card Every dollar charged gets you 2 rewards points and 10000 rewards points gets you $60 . I figure I need to charge $300000 to earn $3600 toward my maintenance.

So now Ive got it.. I can not pay maintenance fees on my 600000 points by buying 1000000 more points and charging $25000 a month on my new credit card

Several problems here 1) no bank will give me a credit card with a $25000 limit and even if they did I dont spend that much in a year let alone in a month and 2) he quoted me a price of $220 per 1000 for the new points, or $220000. I dont have $220000 and even if I did it dosent make sense to spend $220000 to save $3500 a year...for those that have stuck with me so far, thats a 1.5% return....If I had $220000 why wouldnt I just buy a good muni bond fund and pay my maintenance fees with the interest earned

What ended the presentation is when I told him I paid $500 for my 600000 points and used 252000 of them to make 2 Mardi Gras reservations and collected enough rent to pay all my maintenance fees. leaving 324000 maintenance fee free points for my own use ...I like my strategy better than his

 

[ronparise]

Yes, since he owned 1M points already, they may have thought he knows that some special deals are only available through the Corporate offices. It is possible to buy foreclosures at reduced price that way. I don't know what other things they do, but, as you say, this is a common puffed up language used by the sales weasels. They want you to think how lucky you are to be in this perfect place at this time, for this one time only deal, with the only magician able to work it for you - your eyes glaze over - you forget all the needed questions - suspend reality and sign on the line. When else in life would a rational person ever commit to such a large purchase totally unplanned and unresearched?

I was offered over 900000 points by a corporate saleswoman at less $50000. This was a contract that Wyndham took back either in foreclosure, a simple deed back, perhaps from an estate. I was to pay the back maintenance fees owed, and pick up payments where the last guy stopped. These points were VIP eligible, but I couldnt use this deal to PIC in anything I might already own

This same saleswoman also offered me a 126000 point contract at the regular price less what she called a significant discount at $12000. and PIC in 2 fixed weeks into Wyndham to go VIP gold

This is also the group that has been calling fixed weeks owners at Dolphins Cove offering a no cost trade into Club Wyndham Access.

She is also the one that told me in no uncertain terms that I could convert my fixed weeks (purchased resale) with her, but they would not be VIP eligible

She said she can sell me points from across the entire Wyndham system

 

[rrlongwell]

... This same saleswoman also offered me a 126000 point contract at the regular price less what she called a significant discount at $12000. and PIC in 2 fixed weeks into Wyndham to go VIP gold ... She is also the one that told me in no uncertain terms that I could convert my fixed weeks (purchased resale) with her, but they would not be VIP eligible.

On the point that she could see points anywhere across the Wyndham System, I would be curious on how she can do that in states that require a License to sell Timeshares.

On the fixed weeks to converted fixed weeks, it might be worth a complaint with the Central Floridia BBB for not permitting what appears to be permitted under the Member's Director (pg 287 top of columne combined with the defenition of ownership interest that appears in the glossery. I do not have any unconverted fixed weeks in my inventory. The Central Flordia BBB are good people, they were instramental in resolving a number of issues with Wyndham involving ownership rights.

 

[kalua]

need help out of contract

johndg ; when I canceled a contract 3 years ago the financial center was and still in Vegas as of last month, i also sent letters to orlando,and to the timeshare salespeople i signed with,because nothing in the contract was clear ,sent them us postal return receipt, and then called financial service and told them I had sent it which i only had a couple of days to get it mailed that way they had to acknowledge that they knew i had canceled hope this helps you should be ok.

 

[ronparise]

On the point that she could see points anywhere across the Wyndham System, I would be curious on how she can do that in states that require a License to sell Timeshares.

On the fixed weeks to converted fixed weeks, it might be worth a complaint with the Central Floridia BBB for not permitting what appears to be permitted under the Member's Director (pg 287 top of columne combined with the defenition of ownership interest that appears in the glossery. I do not have any unconverted fixed weeks in my inventory. The Central Flordia BBB are good people, they were instramental in resolving a number of issues with Wyndham involving ownership rights.

I said she can see across the system, I dont know that she can "sell" across the system but she can certainly refer me to the person in the system that is licensed to do it....However I dont think a Wyndham employee needs a license to sell their own real estate any more than you need a license to sell what you own.

regarding my fixed weeks; They were purchased on the secondary market and according to the paragraph you quote, any points resulting from a conversion wouldnt qualify for VIP as my ownership interest was not purchased directly from Wyndham

It doesnt matter how the points were obtained. The points are merely symbolic of an ownership interest...iWhat matters is how the underlying ownership interest was obtained

I wish you were right on this but you are not

 

[glypnirsgirl]

My response...its fuzzy math. ...

So now Ive got it.. I can not pay maintenance fees on my 600000 points by buying 1000000 more points and charging $25000 a month on my new credit card

Several problems here 1) no bank will give me a credit card with a $25000 limit and even if they did I dont spend that much in a year let alone in a month and 2) he quoted me a price of $220 per 1000 for the new points, or $220000. I dont have $220000 and even if I did it dosent make sense to spend $220000 to save $3500 a year...for those that have stuck with me so far, thats a 1.5% return....If I had $220000 why wouldnt I just buy a good muni bond fund and pay my maintenance fees with the interest earned

What ended the presentation is when I told him I paid $500 for my 600000 points and used 252000 of them to make 2 Mardi Gras reservations and collected enough rent to pay all my maintenance fees. leaving 324000 maintenance fee free points for my own use ...I like my strategy better than his

This post made me laugh! I bet this salesman thought that he had run into a buzzsaw.

So few people stop to run numbers, it is amazing to me that you not only run them, you are willing to share.

Thanks!
elaine

 

[ronparise]

This post made me laugh! I bet this salesman thought that he had run into a buzzsaw.

So few people stop to run numbers, it is amazing to me that you not only run them, you are willing to share.

Thanks!
elaine

Ive been a salesman over 50 years, since I sold my home delivery service of the Washington Post door to door...the ultimate in cold calling

I have learned over the years, that a decision to buy something is very often an emotional one, justified by a, "by the numbers", analysis..... "isnt that car pretty'' first and "it gets 30 miles to the gallon" next. Some people (me for example) start with the numbers and then let their emotions come forward, before they do a deal. It really dosent matter which comes first but a good salesman will appeal to both sides of your brain. They want you to feel good and think about it before they close

Timeshare salesmen and con men generally generally, do their best to end their presentation and make the sale based strictly on emotions. "How does it feel" They wont let you think about it

Im no buzzsaw, but I do demand the time to think...(and I think with a yellow pad and a calculator) I guess that makes me a timeshare salesmans worst nightmare

 

[theo]

Obviously, but...

Of course a resort or developer can state their own rescission period as long as its a longer period of time than whats required in the law

Of course.... but as has been openly and frequently observed in many other same-subject posts, there are no reports of any facility in the U.S.A. choosing to exceed the rescission period required by their state law.

Some resorts include the (legally required) rescission rights info and instructions making no overt reference to the existence of a law requiring them to do so. On the contrary, some even phrase the cancellation information in such a way as to suggest or imply that the rescission opportunity is some sort of voluntary act of benevolence on their part. It's certainly neither voluntary nor benevolent --- it's the law!

 

[theo]

Important and well worth repeating...

I must respectfully tell you to disregard Kalua's instructions to send the rescission notice to Vegas. That IS where their finamcial services department is located, but the key point with rescission is that you must follow the instructions in YOUR contract documents precisely.

Excellent advice this, to use and follow exactly the rescission instructions and address, which must be spelled out, in detail, within (or accompanying) your sales contract documents --- as required by state law.

If the instructions specifically identify the use of USPS certified mail, for example, that does not mean that emails, phone calls, FedEx, smoke signals, UPS, carrier pigeon or mental telepathy are acceptable instead.
Postmark on cancellation notification with a date after the deadline is equally fatal to effective rescission.

 

[johndg]

I guess I'm okay. Time will tell. Sent letter out regular mail Saturday to Las Vegas. Found financial services number today and called them also. Lady told me I could send by mail or I could fax letter. Said all I had to send was letter stating we wanted to cancel and the contract number, etc... She gave me the fax number and was very polite, didn't ask why or anything, told me I would get paperwork back when it was processed. I faxed the letter and then also sent it out again certified mail from the post office as backup.

Sales person sent me a text message 2-3 hours later saying she got the letter, with a after, and if there was anything she could do to help us in the future call her. No phone call trying to get us to change our mind or anything....yet. If this in fact does take care of it then it was actually a pretty easy process.

Thanks again to all for your help and I intend to become more educated and contributing member of this board in the future.

 

[fishingguy]

you are right

johndg wrote:

Was at Gatlinburg for Thanksgiving weekend/black friday shopping. Had 4 rooms, 3 of which I booked this time last year and was afraid to cancel/rebook cause there had been absolutely nothing open during the entire window.

This is typical for the GSMNP area and not only for Wyndham but all 4 and 5* resorts. You need to book about a year early to get into anything other than a studio at one of these resorts; from the start of foliage season to Thanksgiving. ...they go fast, I've sniped a cancellation or two for a week with an ongoing RCI search; but you just can't count on it.