Need advice on a possible Marriott purchase !

[Kush22]

Hello everyone,
My first post here

We just came back from Frenchman's Reef at St.Thomas (yesterday!!!) after 5 night stay. We attended their timeshare presentation for Cove. Didn't make any decision yet, but definitely interested.

We are interested in 2 BR Plat week and inclined to choose Xmas week and the cost with their incentive is $31k..

Now we seldom go back to the same place for vacation twice !! So, our main goal is to be able to successfully trade to other resorts across the country and even possibly their other offer such as cruise to Alaska, using their other affiliated properties etc.

My question is does it make sense to go with Marriott or do I get a better deal with resale? If we go via resale route, can I still successfully trade if I buy a plat week 2BR with Xmas locked down in either Aruba or St.Thomas? Are there any down side with trading if I go with resale option.

I know there probably has been this discussion many times before In that case, please direct me to that link

Thanks

 

[kjd]

I believe that it's questionable that you will ever be able to get into Frenchman's Cove at a time that you desire unless you own there. Having said that you're interested in going other places so I would pick a few resorts that you might like to vacation at and then try to buy one of them on ebay. The cruise exchange is not a good deal IMO. For 31K you could probably take one cruise a year for the next 35+ years even if you paid retail for them.

Seasonal designations are important when trading. The timeshare market is severely depressed everywhere but the Marriott sales offices. Why not take advantage of it if you're not sure about returning to St. Thomas?

 

[davidn247]

Welcome!

Just take your time and maybe rent one or two more weeks in different Marriott resorts before you make your mind (see rentals on TUG and also on redweek.com). Also, keep reading TUG. I wish I would have discovered it before buying!

Buying directly from Marriott does not make any sense and resale is the ONLY way to go.

Hello everyone,
My first post here

We just came back from Frenchman's Reef at St.Thomas (yesterday!!!) after 5 night stay. We attended their timeshare presentation for Cove. Didn't make any decision yet, but definitely interested.

We are interested in 2 BR Plat week and inclined to choose Xmas week and the cost with their incentive is $31k..

Now we seldom go back to the same place for vacation twice !! So, our main goal is to be able to successfully trade to other resorts across the country and even possibly their other offer such as cruise to Alaska, using their other affiliated properties etc.

My question is does it make sense to go with Marriott or do I get a better deal with resale? If we go via resale route, can I still successfully trade if I buy a plat week 2BR with Xmas locked down in either Aruba or St.Thomas? Are there any down side with trading if I go with resale option.

I know there probably has been this discussion many times before In that case, please direct me to that link

Thanks

 

[rrazzorr]

We are interested in 2 BR Plat week and inclined to choose Xmas week and the cost with their incentive is $31k..
Thanks

The price seems to be rather reasonable if you are quoted for the fixed wk 51.

For 31K you could probably take one cruise a year for the next 35+ years even if you paid retail for them.

How would you ever accomplish that, 35+ years of cruses for the 31K? Even the bare minimum, low season, of 2 people will run you around 1500 + numerous fees.

 

[Kush22]

So, how does the trading work if I buy resale? Can I still use Marriott Vacation club points to trade every year?

How does it work if I want to use Marriott affiliated hotels in other locations where their resorts are not present?

 

[Davidr]

Now we seldom go back to the same place for vacation twice !! So, our main goal is to be able to successfully trade to other resorts across the country and even possibly their other offer such as cruise to Alaska, using their other affiliated properties etc.

If you are not planning on going back to St Thomas, then you can buy a much, much cheaper resale on ebay that will trade almost as well. Most people think it is best to buy a timeshare that you would want to visit in case you are unable to make a good trade. It also helps if that location is drivable.

Did they offer to sell you a week or DC points? Marriott has switched its timeshare program in the US from a weeks based timeshare to a points base program. The crystal ball is a little cloudy as to the future of trading Marriott weeks based timeshares. I'd be very hesitant to drop $30k into any timeshare program right now.

 

[kjd]

rrazzorr:

Re: cruises

The OP didn't state if the cruise was for one or two persons. If it's two then It would be 1/2 as long 15 1/2 yrs. If it is three, it's even less.

Don't know where you book your cruises but we get offers all of the time here in Florida for $600-$900pp. Try this one on December 3rd= Carnival Liberty from Miami $539, 7 nights, balcony stateroom, port charges included. Taxes not included. Inside cabin is $309 pp.

 

[Stefa]

Re: cruises

I don't know much about cruises, but I'm guessing you could take a pretty nice one for the cost of the MFs without the 31K upfront investment.

To the OP: $31,000 is a lot of cash to have tied up in a timeshare. Before spending anything close to that you need to make darn sure you understand what you are buying. Don't forget that you will still owe an annual maintenance fee as well as the cost of belonging to Interval International or DC. Timesharing is a wonderful way to vacation, but a developer purchase isn't the cost-saving option the salespeople claim it to be.

 

[tiel]

So, how does the trading work if I buy resale? Can I still use Marriott Vacation club points to trade every year?

How does it work if I want to use Marriott affiliated hotels in other locations where their resorts are not present?

Buying a week resale has no impact on your ability to trade your week. For a fee, you can exchange it through Interval International or a few other timeshare exchange groups, or even arrange a direct trade with another timeshare owner if you choose.

If you buy a resale week now, you will not be able to enroll that week in the Destination Club program (only resale weeks that closed by 20 June 2010 are eligible), so you would not be dealing with MVC points. These points only can come into play only when you enroll in the DC program.

There is no direct ability to trade your week to stay in Marriott hotels. However, if you purchase your week from Marriott, you would be able to trade your week for Marriott Reward points, and then use the points to stay in a Marriott hotel. If you purchase your week resale, you are not allowed to trade for Marriott Reward points.

 

[larryallen]

I would rent.

 

[dioxide45]

The problem with the just rent mentality is that right now resale prices are at historic lows, along with rental rates. So for now renting makes sense; however, when rental prices go up because demand and the economy get better, one might be kicking themselves if resale prices go up along with them.

 

[BarbS]

rrazzorr:

Re: cruises

The OP didn't state if the cruise was for one or two persons. If it's two then It would be 1/2 as long 15 1/2 yrs. If it is three, it's even less.

Don't know where you book your cruises but we get offers all of the time here in Florida for $600-$900pp. Try this one on December 3rd= Carnival Liberty from Miami $539, 7 nights, balcony stateroom, port charges included. Taxes not included. Inside cabin is $309 pp.

I agree that the price he was quoted is way too high to pay, especially for a fixed week he doesn't plan to use every year.

There is a very wide range of cruise fares. The prices you quoted would be on the low end of the spectrum. It doesn't matter that much who you book with, but which cruise line you choose. Luxury all inclusive cruises are much higher and you would be lucky to get 3 cruises per couple with that amount.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I would rent.

If the OP wants to consistently travel during Xmas week and similar holiday weeks renting is not the most cost effecient approach because a 2 BDRM of prime locations will cost you $3300+ every year.

My suggestion is to buy a resale xmas week or other fixed prime week to use or trade if that is what he wants.

 

[MOXJO7282]

The problem with the just rent mentality is that right now resale prices are at historic lows, along with rental rates. So for now renting makes sense; however, when rental prices go up because demand and the economy get better, one might be kicking themselves if resale prices go up along with them.

This does not hold true for high demand weeks at prime locations. And resale pricing is going up for the same high demand weeks at prime locations.

 

[rrazzorr]

rrazzorr:

Re: cruises

The OP didn't state if the cruise was for one or two persons. If it's two then It would be 1/2 as long 15 1/2 yrs. If it is three, it's even less.

Don't know where you book your cruises but we get offers all of the time here in Florida for $600-$900pp. Try this one on December 3rd= Carnival Liberty from Miami $539, 7 nights, balcony stateroom, port charges included. Taxes not included. Inside cabin is $309 pp.

Look, I agree that trading a TS for cruises isn't ideal. We can all do the math.
But why not compare apples-to-apples, if the OP wants to buy a two bedroom unit at a premium Caribbean resort for plat+ Christmas week, lets not assume that person goes on vacations alone. And when comparing prices don't throw out December 3rd as an example (again, considering the Christmas week). But yes, good argument, I agree, not worth trading a TS for a cruise (period) no need to get worked up

 

[Kush22]

Thanks a lot for your responses. Needless to say, we would want to rent a few times and see if it makes sense to buy (resale).. Which Marriott resorts rent well to make sure if we make a reasonably good investment? Any suggestions if looking into buying ?

 

[kjd]

Let's be realistic about time sharing and cruising. The people who really make out with timeshares are families. Yes, the maintenance fees are $1,000+ per week. (We pay them because we wouldn't want to stay in a run down motel) If a family of five went to a resort hotel for a week the cost would be at least double or triple. With no kitchen and having to rent two or three additional rooms, eating out every meal and hotel charges for just about everything, time sharing becomes a real bargain. Of course this puts aside the equity and possible financing costs of obtaining a timeshare. The Marriott brand gave legacy owners a lifetime of vacation opportunities. We are lucky to have bought when we did, whether it be from Marriott or on Ebay.

For empty-nesters who have worked all of their lives it's an extravagance. That's ok because at that time of your life, that's what money's for. Some of our timeshare trips have three generations of our family together. What is that worth? So what's the big deal about money if everyone enjoys themselves?

Cruising and time sharing can't really be compared with each other. On a cruise you sacrifice space for all inclusive meals and entertainment. Cruising has a lot of planned activity. However, you're doing everything with about 3,000 other people. With time sharing you create you're own activities.

 

[radmoo]

Let's be realistic about time sharing and cruising. The people who really make out with timeshares are families. Yes, the maintenance fees are $1,000+ per week. (We pay them because we wouldn't want to stay in a run down motel) If a family of five went to a resort hotel for a week the cost would be at least double or triple. With no kitchen and having to rent two or three additional rooms, eating out every meal and hotel charges for just about everything, time sharing becomes a real bargain. Of course this puts aside the equity and possible financing costs of obtaining a timeshare. The Marriott brand gave legacy owners a lifetime of vacation opportunities. We are lucky to have bought when we did, whether it be from Marriott or on Ebay.

For empty-nesters who have worked all of their lives it's an extravagance. That's ok because at that time of your life, that's what money's for. Some of our timeshare trips have three generations of our family together. What is that worth? So what's the big deal about money if everyone enjoys themselves?

Cruising and time sharing can't really be compared with each other. On a cruise you sacrifice space for all inclusive meals and entertainment. Cruising has a lot of planned activity. However, you're doing everything with about 3,000 other people. With time sharing you create you're own activities.

Well said - AMEN!

 

[ondeadlin]

Which Marriott resorts rent well to make sure if we make a reasonably good investment? Any suggestions if looking into buying ?

Don't think of buying a timeshare as an investment. Think of it as buying a car - because like a car, there are good deals and bad deals, but in either case it's going to be greatly devalued the minute you drive it off the lot. You should plan on losing at least half your purchase price, minimum, if you buy developer. You might not, but that at least mentally prepares you for the possibility.

Your best rentals would be the ski resorts and Hilton Head (imo), but renting out your timeshare brings its own challenges and - in my experience - isn't for most folks.

 

[suzannesimon]

I thought I was a bad enough fool for buying at Frenchman's Cove from Marriott and now I see I paid over $10k more in 2008 for my 2 BR than you did and I don't even want to talk about the 3 BR!! Resale is definitely a better way to go, but you did get a good Marriott price. It is a great resort and we love it. When we were there last Christmas there were many Marriott owners there on trades. A couple we talked to had gotten it on flex change, but I have to believe the airfare was horrendous for Christmas week on short notice. I have tried renting one or both of my weeks a couple of times without much luck, but I tend to lose patience 4-6 months out and either trade them or use them myself. The downside of that holiday week is the airfare and we always try to book flights 10-11 months out to get the best price. There are 15 of us going so price is definitely important. Renters don't usually book that early and by the time they think they are interested, they freak at the airfare. This is just a way of saying you shouldn't have a problem renting if you do it early enough and you probably wouldn't have a problem trading into it either with another Marriott.

 

[m61376]

This is just a way of saying you shouldn't have a problem renting if you do it early enough and you probably wouldn't have a problem trading into it either with another Marriott.

While there may have been many people there on trades last year, the combination of more weeks being sold in the short term and the DC system in the long term, with the unsold weeks finding their way into the trust, will likely make it more and more difficult to exchange in there over the holiday week.

While there are many people who successfully trade into Caribbean resorts for weeks 51 and 52, there are many more who don't. If the OP needs a week 51 because of children, then the only way to ensure that week is to own it. Also, many of the trades are more last minute, as unsold inventory may get dumped into II during Flexchange, and airfare skyrockets for that week (as you pointed out).

If you need week 51 and will need it for may years to come, then buy one resale. Before considering buying from Marriott, since the only "advantage" would be the ability to exchange for points, look at the number of points that would be allotted for your week and what the point "cost" is for any other week you might want to trade into. The Caribbean resorts fared relatively poorly in the point allocation, which means that you won't get enough points to book something comparable elsewhere, making exchanging for DC points questionable at best. As for exchanging for Marriott Reward points- high MF's make that a highly questionable value as well.

Welcome to Tug, btw. Take the time to learn more about what you've been offered and don't be frightened into making a "limited time offer" decision. Marriott will be happy to take your money next week, but you may very well find your needs are better served buying on the resale market.

oh- one more consideration- will you still need week 51 in 5 years? A lot of people buy the holiday week without considering that children grow up and there are much easier weeks to travel than week 51, so consider what your family situation will be a few years down the road. I know it sounds obvious, but it is easy to overlook that family dynamics change.

 

[Kush22]

Wow, thanks a lot for all your responses.

For the previous poster, so we really don't need week 51, I was told that it's easy to trade or rent if we need to. In fact, I would prefer traveling in thanksgiving week and in am looking into Marriott Aruba for good resales.

I honestly didn't think Cove had much of a beach at all, it was very small and more like back waters ;( but we stayed at morning star side on the ocean and loved it !!

I am doing my research and looks like Aruba resales are pretty high too

 

[tombo]

Rent or buy resale.

If you pay $31,000 and don't cancel the sale within 5 days you are the proud owner of a timeshare you would be lucky to sell for $10,000, and that is doubtfull. How many vacations can you pay for for the $20,000 plus depreciation you will take the second you sign on the dotted line. If tey are selling you points you might have lost $31,000 if you want to sell because at the moment you can't sell points with the rules and restrictions they have in place. DO NOT BUY RETAIL.

If you research,rent, and find a resort you would actually like to stay in most years, and you can buy it resale on e-bay or somewhere similar for $2000 to $7000, then buy. Owning has some advantages, but only f it is at a resort you would like to visit most every year, not to buy to exchange. Marriott can change their exchange rules at any time, they can not change the week you purchase and the rights you buy for your home resort.


Having said that at most Marriott resorts (actually at almost any timeshares) you can with a very little effort rent a week for as cheap as if not cheaper than MF's. Not 4th of July, not new Years week, but if you are flexible you can rent weeks for little more than owners pay, and often less. As a renter you have zero purchase expense, zero obligations to vacation anywhere each year, zero assessments, no obligation to ever rising MF's, and no planning vacations a year in advance to be able reserve a good week/resort.

Let's say you have to pay $500 more than MF's each year on average to rent a week. You can easily do much better than that, but let's use it as an example. In 20 years you have spent $10000 more than owners spend. However you saved $5000 to $10000 on purchase costs (resale), and probably $1000's in assessments owners had to pay to refurbish over the decades. You will be ahead financially.

A renter can look through all the Marriott resorts for a bargain offered by an owner, reserve what they want,when they want, at a price they like. Join Redweek.com and search Marriott resorts. Look at the rentals offered and the prices. At virtually every Marriott there will be weeks listed for rent for close to what the owners pay in annual MF's.

You want to go somewhere different every year. Look for deals. Go to Hawaii this year, Aruba next year. 2 years from now forget Marriott and rent Manhattan Club NY, rent Harborside at Atlantis, rent Westin St Johns, or rent nowhere and visit family or go to a city that has no timeshares like Chicago.

Renters have all the options. Rent only oceanfront, summer, winter, 2 bed, anything you want will be offered for rent by some owner. Owners have all the obligations. I own many weeks but in this economy renting is by far the best choice for most people IMO.

Do a lot of research before buying. These things are really easy to buy resale, but they are very hard to sell if you decide owning is not for you.

 

[tombo]

I am doing my research and looks like Aruba resales are pretty high too

Go to redweek.com.

Aruba Surf Club currently has 481 rentals ranging from $3 a night to $1414 a night. You can Easily rent a week for the cost of MF's if you are flexible and offer less than asking prices. Not President's week, not New Years, but do you really have to travel then? Want to buy? On Redweek there are 79 for sale with ASKING PRICES starting at $8500. Find a week you like and make an offer.These people want to sell, and some will sell (or rent) for less than they are asking. Make an offer, the worst they can say is no.

Marriott ocean Club has 210 rentals from $79 a night to $957 a night. There are 29 resales raging from $7000 to $24900. As I said these are all ASKING PRICES. Many are negotiable.

Redweeek is one of the more expensive places to buy resale. The cheapest is e-bay. What can you buy a week on e-bay for? watch the auctions and you will be surprised. Some people get in a bidding war and the prices get high. Don't get in a bidding war. Buy cheap or wait. There are more listed for sale every week. Wait for a deal, there is no hurry. There will be more next month and the next. If oil prices and air fares keep rising the prices on e-bay and redweek will drop even more, and keep dropping. It is a buyers/renters market.

 

[kjd]

Renting is probably the most attractive usage option right now. Especially with a brand like Marriott. You know what you're getting provided you trust the owner you're dealing with. There are horror stories about owners renting the same unit to two different parties and other such problems. Renting is strictly buyer beware.

As a long term solution renting is really not viable. It's a crap shoot. Especially if you are trying to get a desirable location or time of year. Not too long ago we can all remember that it was next to impossible to get into resorts like NCV, MGO, Maui, Crystal Shores, etc, in peak seasons even if you were an owner. Ebay used to have only about ten or less Marriott resales listed for auction. Several other were listed at "buy it now" ridiculous prices. Potential buyers were told to buy directly from Marriott before prices were increased. Marriott had scheduled regular price increases. Indeed, some owners actually made a capital gain by buying and selling a Marriott timeshare.

Are those days gone forever? The one thing about markets is that they change. They fluctuate between being overbought and oversold. There is no telling whether we will see the return of the days of higher values anytime soon. Values could go even lower in the meantime. At some point the timeshare market could turn for any number of reasons. If it does, renting will then become the most expensive option on a long term basis. If you're interested in buying, the catching the falling knife analogy is where you're at right now. IMO the advice given here on TUG should be well taken. Buy where and when you want to spend a lot of your vacation time and make the best deal that you can. That is the single best strategy that I know of.