Need advice at the Grand Mayan, Nuevo Vallarta

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Contract says you pay the user fees when you reserve a week. Does not specifically say there is no fee if not used, but there is no mention of other annual fees either Just the additional user fee once every 10 years
Jeff

If you go forward with the purchase - I would go to member services and request that the wording be specific - that there is no MF due on any weeks not used -as some kind of addendum
Member services is in the Grand Bliss - same floor as the sales floor
I believe the hours are 9-12 for a meeting and an appt ( of some kind ) is required - per the sign outside the doorway

My contract is pre 2010 - so renewal is every 25 yrs ( 5 x MF ) and every 5 years a second " renovation MF " is due .
Since Vidanta is RTU they count on some people dropping out . On the other hand they have knocked down MP buildings to build bigger better Grand Mayan and/or Grand Luxxe- so the quality level is based on improvement and NOT the model of " let it get run down and increase the margins"
This process - including their sales process has allowed them to keep growing which is good for me as an existing " legacy / not upgraded " ( by choice ) owner .

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

RE SFX and Vida Weeks ( with SFX

Tom,I do not have to give up or exhange either of my 2 Vida weeks to use SFX.
Vida pays the annual fee and I just put in my request without giving up anything. yeah, I still don't understand it bu I did double check that one
Jeff

Dear Jeff
The Vidanta / Vida / Mayan World folks have a good long term relationship with SFX
Once upon a time Vidanta was more focused on selling TS than they were on filling the resorts . In the last 5 years or so they have also focused on the resort / hotel / reservation side of their biz .

On RCI you will see 2 resort numbers for their properties . I have read on TUG that one lists owner deposited exchanges and the other is for developer deposits.
( I believe that is also how they "pay" RCI for " listing / shelf space " ) I have also read on TUG ( not specific to Vidanta) that an owner may call their resort and be told there is no availability and also see the week they want on RCI and the resort reservations will tell them " apples and oranges " - we deposited that week into RCI so it is no longer " ours" .
There are times on RCI were you will see 200+ weeks of a specific Vidanta property listed . Most of these are shoulder to low season and often the cost is at or even below MF of an owner week - when on sale by RCI . ( Mayan owners are excluded from Extra vacatons & Last Calls , while exchangers have 1 in 3 yr rule per resort )

Historically - the exchangers coming from RCI are seen by many developers as a source of fodder for new sales ( We were and bought a Mayan Palace )
That model probably still works to some degree - but all those glut of weeks is probably viewed by Vidanta management (today ) as a ( xxx - you fill in / problem ) Also if you exchange / bank weeks as you have with YOUR Marriott Grand Desert - then you never visit and Vidanta /Vida /Mayan looses the " hotel " side revenue .

By taking " developer" weeks and giving them as a bonus (to new buyers ) THAT are only depositable into SFX - you the buyer can visit Grand Mayan annually AND gain flexibility and more vacation options ,AND SFX has deposited weeks to " sell " that presumably bring new guests to the Vidanta resorts - which Vidanta hopes to convince to go to a presentation AND sell.
Win - Win for everyone ( except maybe RCI )

I am not suggesting that RCI (as the number one exchange company in number of member resorts) will not have access to,or be a exchange " partner " for Vidanta / Vida / Mayan . I am suggesting that Vidanta has innovatively come up with a model that helps their own sales by offering " bonus / Vida SFX weeks and the result of this is a model should also continue to bring them " new leads / ie exchangers AND reduces their dependence / glut problem of developer weeks on RCI

An additional part of this " fill the hotel side AND sell new owners - is that I " see" Vidanta increasing their sales focus on Mexican nationals for " summer season " weeks . Historically it was the 4 holiday weeks ( Semana Santa / Pasqua ie the week before and the week after Easter Sunday ) and Christmas & New Years weeks that were sold to nationals . I believe Vidanta is focused on filling more of the historic slower summer season - with the growing Mexican middle class .
One day if your ownership is the 48 week / red season , I believe , Vidanta will invite you to a " owner update " with the goal of getting you to upgrade and in return for a bonus ( ?? more Vida SFX weeks / longer winter booking window etc) they will ask you to relinquish the right to book " summer season weeks "
IT MIGHT EVEN BE A GOOD IDEA

Sea Garden , Mayan Palace : are being " repurposed not eliminated

as is Acapulco,- which in addition to being a "drive to " vacation destination for Mexico City also contains a new RCI designation for the group of Mayan Palace
buildings NOT near the beach . Those buildings now list on RCI as Acapulco - Golf Resort .

( NOTE- if any TUG members understand this better - please add info details and thought - about any of this Mayan World speculation of mine


And yes I am in sales marketing and Vidanta fascinates me

 

[pittle]

If you are buying because of the Ambassador program, I would say rescind.

If you are buying because you prefer Grand Mayan over your Marriott, then keep it.

I have never owned or stayed at a Marriott timeshare, but have been to all of the Mayan Palace and Grand Mayan resorts, plus Grand Bliss in Nuevo and Grand Luxxe in Neuvo and have had wonderful vacation experiences. We love Mayan World as I call it. Just this week we popped by the Puerto Penasco resort to check out the new Grand Mayan, and it was really nice. I am thinking about taking some friends there for a "girls trip" within the next year.

We have owned numerous timeshares over the years, but Mayan World resorts and Buganvilias Vacation Club (in Puerto Vallarta) are our favorites and we have not regretted our purchases there. We did purchase several eBay units at each and then used those towards upgrades to higher level units.

We still own one PBEB unit and tend to trade it for a Buganvilias or a Mayan World resort each year. That is how much we like them!

Only you can decide it that is where you always want to go when on vacation. You cannot count on exchanges or rentals. We stand by the buy where you want to go, and go there philosophy.

 

[MuranoJo]

...My contract is pre 2010 - so renewal is every 25 yrs ( 5 x MF ) and every 5 years a second " renovation MF " is due .
Since Vidanta is RTU they count on some people dropping out . On the other hand they have knocked down MP buildings to build bigger better Grand Mayan and/or Grand Luxxe- so the quality level is based on improvement and NOT the model of " let it get run down and increase the margins"
This process - including their sales process has allowed them to keep growing which is good for me as an existing " legacy / not upgraded " ( by choice ) owner .

Hi, T-Dot,

I highlighted in the above an area I don't understand from your post. I'm also a 'legacy' MP owner and I don't necessarily see how knocking down MP buildings and replacing them with higher levels is good for MP owners. Seems to me it just means fewer MP units available for us owners. Can you expand?
Thanks.

 

[ronandjoan]

Just a note: We just checked into MP PV on an SFX exchange and neither the front desk clerk nor the "sales pitch greeter " knew what SFX was.

We were offered 10% off our MP bill, rt airline ticket ( certificate) to Mexico ( good for a year) to go to presentation. When I said No, he added an hour massage.

I still said No. He obviously thought we were crazy but he let us go then.

They are going to charge us $75/per week for being an exchanger. Anyone heard of that? ( that's over and above the required tax)

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Hi MuranoJo -expanded

Hi, T-Dot,

I highlighted in the above an area I don't understand from your post. I'm also a 'legacy' MP owner and I don't necessarily see how knocking down MP buildings and replacing them with higher levels is good for MP owners. Seems to me it just means fewer MP units available for us owners. Can you expand?
Thanks.

Vidanta remains very successful and continues to grow . Since both our contracts ( mine is 10 yrs old ) are RTU the have to " allow us in " I have spoken to folks at the MP PV Marina. who have Sea Garden ( bought when there was one there ) and continue to use the MP -Marina PV every year .

We personally prefer the smaller scale properties - and liked Sea Garden NV (first visit )
( our week 2 / Feb 2016 - MP PV was full for Prez- Wk ) We may never go to Cirque - but I am glad Vidanta management wants to offer " the best " . To me - my MP ownership is like owning the small house in an expensive neighbourhood - much better than the reverse .
We went to an owner presentation ( first since 2012 / when it was all construction in NV ) and turned down an upgrade . We said - no thanks , we like what we have - before anything was in writing .
I do think they would really likes my 50% off golf back .
I also prefer to wait 15 years to renewal . If we are healthy and they still run great resorts - we will see .

<<There are TS systems in the USA - that grow by buying others - and upping MF >>
( see DRI bought Gold Key thread on TUG )

We are happy to leave the cold winter in Feb and stay in a Mayan Palace level suite .The sunshine is the same as at the Grand Luxxe . But I am glad Vidanta is growing because of GL , golf , Cirque etc . I think it is good - for them and for existing owners, - and for more recent owners -at higher brand levels who desire those amenities .

If NV was like it was in 2005 - would it be full and updated or half full and gradually getting run down ?

Thoughts ??

 

[korndoc]

if you did decide to opt out after 10 years, is it worth what you are paying for just 10 years worth of use? When I said I wish my current ownership had a no go no pay feature, that is not something that would have been an incentive for me to buy a timeshare originally.

This is not an incentive for me, either, and no, not really worth just 10 years of usage. But at least you can get out if finances or health warrant it. That said, at just a $1000 extra per 10 years and then no charge if not used, this is pretty flexible financially.
Jeff

 

[Karen G]

So korndoc, did you keep what you bought or rescind?

 

[MuranoJo]

...Vidanta remains very successful and continues to grow . Since both our contracts ( mine is 10 yrs old ) are RTU the have to " allow us in " I have spoken to folks at the MP PV Marina. who have Sea Garden ( bought when there was one there ) and continue to use the MP -Marina PV every year .

...We personally prefer the smaller scale properties - and liked Sea Garden NV (first visit )

If NV was like it was in 2005 - would it be full and updated or half full and gradually getting run down ?

Thoughts ??

Thanks for your response. Yes, I agree Vidanta is successful and growing. But I'm like you and prefer the smaller-scale properties (really like the PV location). NV, IMO, is a mega-resort and they seem to make it difficult to even get off property, which is the main reason we visit the area--to get out & about, not hang at the pool all day.

I'm glad your friends are able to use MP since the Sea Garden is gone now, and I know of some MP owners who've been able to reserve a GM in Cabo since there are no MP there. I'm probably a bit skeptical, but I'm not convinced they'll do this at all locations, nor consistently. And I'm not sure why RTU would guarantee access if they tear down lower levels.

Far as I know, ACA is the only location where they are investing in MP and they could tell us no availability except at ACA in the future.

But again, I may be too skeptical. I've not tried for Cabo myself yet.

 

[korndoc]

To Tom, Phyllis, Karen, Jim and everyone else who wrote to help with my decision.

I believe Vidanta is a very good company to own at. Everything is spotless and done to perfection. They wash stones for goodness sake. We really enjoyed our week here and love some of the other areas with sister sites.

I went to the presentation JUST for the freebee I was offered (free tickets to the very enjoyable Rhythms of the Night) I have been to numerous presentations and always leave without buying, being a long time Tug member. But this time the carrots were many, as described in my opening statement, with the "no go no pay" concept, 2 one bedrooms per year at the resort plus 2 two bedrooms per year at SFX if I pay for them without having to deposit my weeks.

What really got my attention was being able to pay it off in about 5 years using the Ambassador Certificates. Give them to charities for their silent auctions. Get $300 for everyone who bids for them and goes to one of the locations, plus a commission for anyone who actually purchases.

BUT I had a lot of questions, such as contract saying one thing, sales person saying another. I sent her numerous emails during the next 2 days which she answered but I would then have even more questions. I called Global, the company that would take my Marriott, because their contract said they would take all my banked II deposits (I have a couple years worth). They told me on the phone not to worry about that but the contract says otherwise. The Vidanta contract says the SFX contract is only for one year but the salesperson assures me it is for the 100 years I would own at the property. As much as I would want to believe her and that the company is reputable and really will stand behind what they say, Tuggers have taught me to not believe anything not in writing and I had too many questions that would need to be added to the contract (as Tom suggests) than I had time to deal with, given the 5 day rescission deadline and that I was leaving on the 3rd day.

Plus, as Phyllis points out, don't do this deal for the Ambassador Program. I did not want to pay $16,000 and saw this as a way to pay for the program. But I did not meet any owners who were using it, so no way to be sure I should depend on it.

Finally, while still in Mexico, I emailed a good friend who has been to Grand Mayan several times, trading his studio lock out at the same Marriott Desert Springs I own and getting 1 and 2 bedroom units in the winter! His advice was why buy there if you can trade in. He even got a 2 bedroom unit paying for an II Getaway.

I did go to the Contract Service dept the last day I was there to rescind. The woman who greeted us immediately told us not to worry, they respect our wishes. The person I needed to talk to would be in the next day, but we were leaving later the day I was talking to her. So she took our information, including contract number, and would give it to the manager we were supposed to see. She told me to email my decision right away and then send the written notice the next day from home. Of course we are following all the rules. There was already an email sent the next day from the contract dept telling me we are in good hands and all will be taken care of.

They do seem like a class operation that would likely stand behind all that was said at the presentation. And EVERY owner we saw loved their ownership.

Thanks again for all your help
Jeff

 

[Karen G]

As much as I would want to believe her and that the company is reputable and really will stand behind what they say, Tuggers have taught me to not believe anything not in writing and I had too many questions that would need to be added to the contract (as Tom suggests) than I had time to deal with, given the 5 day rescission deadline and that I was leaving on the 3rd day.

You did well. Thanks for the update.

 

[hurnik]

Just a note: We just checked into MP PV on an SFX exchange and neither the front desk clerk nor the "sales pitch greeter " knew what SFX was.

We were offered 10% off our MP bill, rt airline ticket ( certificate) to Mexico ( good for a year) to go to presentation. When I said No, he added an hour massage.

I still said No. He obviously thought we were crazy but he let us go then.

They are going to charge us $75/per week for being an exchanger. Anyone heard of that? ( that's over and above the required tax)

Yes, the $75 fee is for airport to resort transportation, wi-fi, and cleaning. They've been charging that on all my SFX (and possibly RCI/II) since at least Jan 2015, maybe even earlier.

 

[rpennisi]

For my Jan 2016 GM stay in Acapulco through RCI, there was no $75 charge. Then again, there was no transportation from the airport.

Does anyone know why RCI charges points members and not weeks members extra in trades? I am a weeks member.

 

[pittle]

korndoc - Thank you so much for taking the time to let us know how this worked out. Yes you can be a member of SFX for as long as you want at no charge, but the 1 year was for the Platinum plan that allows you an automatic upgrade to a larger unit when you do exchange and lower exchange fees. The free plan is pretty iffy on the upgrades for unit sizes and the exchange fees and bonus vacation fees are higher.

We have been taken in by all the glitz and glam more than once at timeshares, but after 25 years, we do understand that if it sounds too good to be true, do not get suckered in. The various sales/rental options always make it sound like you are getting your place for free, but that is not the case. Generally if they would take your place to rent to prospects, you have to pay your MF first then most likely a "small" service fee, so you do not get money back, or maybe very little.

I will say that I know of people who send friends down and if they buy, the sender gets free MF for the next year. That is not too bad, but I tell my friends if they want to go, just rent one of my extra weeks for the cost of the MF and skip the presentation and hassle. It is a win-win for them and no loss for me.

 

[1950panda]

i am a former Grand Myan now Luxxe Loft. Got 2 SFX weeks on deposit. Tried for 6 months to get a few weeks in Jan in PV and did not get a thing. Ambassador Program--I don't use. Got a lot of surprises this year. Check Trip advisor for reviews. Stopped shuttle to Grand Mayan. Long time members that were previously happy, very unhappy. Several of us are trying to organize to submit a proposal hoping to get action on some issues. Beautiful resort but access issues to get off property and distances on property, long walks to get anywhere, really a hardship for elderly and handicapped not needing a wheelchair. Check out the posts on Vidanta members Coalition. Also, if you paid by VISA you have a 14 day cooling off period.

 

[korndoc]

You are right about the long walks at the Grand Mayan. We talked about it often. Long walks to the restaurants at the different areas within the resort.
Long walk to the shuttle that then takes you to the taxi stand.
The cab drivers hate it also as their ride in is longer as well.

Maybe it is due to those long walks, in spite of all my eating and drinking, that I only gained 2 lbs for the week (a new record for me!) :hysterical:

 

[Fauxqui]

Too good to be true?

Just attended a presentation at Grand Mayan. The final price offered was $7900 for the same package. (Down from $119,000). There was no mention of selling the TS I would trade to them. They claimed the keep it in their inventory. For $7900 it was very attractive to get out of maintenance fees. I really didn't see a downside but as a Tug member I'm skeptical. If it looks too good to be true it probably is. Am I missing something?

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

As Always - What is in writing ?

Dear Fauxqui,
I think korndoc did a good job of posting so that the " next in line " has a pathway . you in this case .
As always - what is on paper is all that counts .ie THE contract .

BUT - Is this a resort (system ) you want to use 15 + times . If so than review the "deal " carefully and decide .

{ I picked the number 15 based on using all the initial 10 year weeks and half the bonus weeks during the first 10 year cycle . Obviously the more weeks you use in your lifetime the lower the per week cost you are " prepaying " now .

If your main goal is to unload what you currently own - perhaps you can do so for less and still visit Grand Mayan occasionally .

Your post is making me think - what is Vidanta's goals . Sell time shares and fill the resorts. If by selling you ( and other visitors) they turn you into a yearly owner and if you come 15 + times instead of 3 or 4 they achieve both goals and the dollars they earn from your visits could triple the buy in $ of your offer .
Changing visitors into owners also changes the future travel plans of the visitors - and in a static or shrinking North American TS market - this could be important to a developer like Vidanta that wants to keep,growing and has the support of the Mexican government because their growth increases jobs in Mexico and visitors to Mexico .

*****
Recent TUG posts - say they use Global - when disposing of TS trade in properties

******
The hold for inventory concept -????

Perhaps Vidanta has been reading TUG and plans to get a bunch of Grandview LV already in RCI points ( low MF per point ) and leverage them to buy Wyndham and or RCI .
Just kidding - I am not clear why Vidanta would wish to have inventory in other TS - but they have proven to be a very adaptable developer and perhaps this concept is more than " TS sales hot air " . I am skeptical,but who knows .

Before I started reading TUG and now " new posts" , I had no idea how creative some TS folks can be on ways to best use " the big pool/world of TS "
Maybe Vidanta has figured out a way to " game" other developers by buying for pennies on the dollar as TUGGER's do .


BUT!!
How are they GUARANTEEING that the ownership of the 2 TS resorts will be put in "their " name .Some TS resorts do not allow the transfer of a contract to a LLC due to fear of the Viking Ship problem.The $7900 obviously means they have given " trade in equity " but will the " used car title " leave your name . ( ? ) ASK - sales and member services ( different depts and with different reputations )

Thoughts. - any and all

 

[pittle]

When it sounds too good to be true - it usually is!

We have been owners of Mayan Palace, Grand Mayan and now Grand Luxxe units since 1999 and I can tell you, that for $7900, you are not getting much!

Our original purchase 17 years ago was about that amount and it was for a 2-bedroom Sea Garden. Mayan World as I call it, has Sea Garden units that are about 1/2 the price of Mayan Palace units, which are about 1/2 the price of Grand Mayan units and then you have Grand Bliss and Grand Luxxe that move on up the ladder.

Make sure that you read every single page of your contract more than once and know what you are getting. Just because your salesman or his manager said it, it is not necessarily what you will be getting. Make sure you know exactly while you have the chance to rescind or edit your contract. We have gone back and gotten addendum's.

T-Dot is right - Bottom line is - what is in writing and signed is what you have! Make sure it is what you thought you were buying!!!

 

[Fauxqui]

Thanks

Thanks for your very well considered responses.
The further away from the presentation the less likely to buy. The main reason for buying should be that you like the property and we don't. As was mentioned, it's too big and access is difficult. It's beautiful but...

They plan a Cirque d'Soliel theme park here which is another turn off. We'll be spending next week at Flamingoes and enjoying a smaller, beautiful property we really like. We'll be walking to great restaurants in Bucerias. Thanks again for confirming my thoughts.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

While your there - take a beach walk to

Dear Fauxqui,
If you like the area - but feel the resort is too big -

go for a 1200 foot walk on the beach to the Mayan Sea Garden
you exit by the Grand Mayan and go past 5 non Vidanta condos and you will be there

We stayed at the Sea Garden during Presidents week - Feb 2016
and found it a good choice for our first Neuvo stay . ( we have been to PV seven times - including the week before at MP PV - Marina )

It is non AI - has a nice size pool and has one bedroom suites with partial kitchens (as well as hotel rooms / no kitchen ) and is owned by Vidanta -
so the upkeep is excellent .Your room number allows you to charge at all restaurants on both locations.
Daily maid service and towels

There is an OXXO a block away and regular grey ATM buses to Bucerias and Puerto Vallarta ( airport / Walmart etc ) that stop across the street from the same OXXO

It may be a resort you would choose for an exchange in the future
and they have a open suite if you wish to view / just ask at the front desk

Enjoy the sunshine

 

[richontug]

I bought into Mayan Palace many years ago after an RCI exchange into Grand Mayan.

I have never stayed at MP but have used for RCI and SFX exchanges. I use Wyndham weeks to get into GM and GL. I love GL!

In my GL visit in February I was offered a GL package for $15,000 (no weeks), down from >$100,000 + 2 Wyndham weeks. I did not accept.

When I want to go back I plan to use SFX. I could also rent on RedWeek or VRBO at about $500 over the MF. I would have to rent for ~30 weeks to justify a $15,000 outlay now.

My 2 cents, better than $15,000!

 

[MN2Travel]

Recind

We are owners at Grand Mayan. While the resort is beautiful, some issues have come up this year that makes you seem like you are in prison. We traded 2 timeshares a few years when we moved from the Bliss to Grand Mayan. Everything went good with the timeshare trades. You can rent weeks at Grand Mayan most years from owners who do not go. Nothing else will work like they tell you it does.

 

[huenix]

I bought into Mayan Palace many years ago after an RCI exchange into Grand Mayan.

I have never stayed at MP but have used for RCI and SFX exchanges. I use Wyndham weeks to get into GM and GL. I love GL!

In my GL visit in February I was offered a GL package for $15,000 (no weeks), down from >$100,000 + 2 Wyndham weeks. I did not accept.

When I want to go back I plan to use SFX. I could also rent on RedWeek or VRBO at about $500 over the MF. I would have to rent for ~30 weeks to justify a $15,000 outlay now.

My 2 cents, better than $15,000!

Or just PM anyone that posts that they are Vidanta owners and ask to rent their weeks for the maint fee. I doubt most of the owners use all their weeks.