My first purchase and I need help HGVC

[Smackenzie]

Hi everyone! Thanks for taking the time to read this.

I'm looking to purchase a property just for the HGVC points. I need them, as my family is one that uses our HGVC membership to its limits already. I'm lower level Elite. I've decided on Las Vegas as it seems you get more points per dollar there as opposed to Orlando. Is this so, or is there another location better for points? I don't care about location as much as I do points per dollar.

I understand how it's done, I think, but my biggest question is WHO do I get to help me? After reading through some of what's posted here, I gather a Realtor is the only way to go, and someone like Judy Kozlowski seems to be the best choice.

I'd looked at some of the offers on eBay, and while some are tempting, I gather they aren't reputable either. I looked at some of the listings on the ads here on TUG BBS, and have questions out to one seller.

Please, do you have any words of wisdom for me? Is there a checklist for these kinds of transactions?

Thanks for your time.

Stefanie Mackenzie

 

[Talent312]

These brokers who specialize in HGVC are highly regarded and recommended in the Hilton/HGVC Forum:
Judi Kozlowski ... www.judikoz.com
Seth Nock ... who runs www.sellingtimeshares.net
.

 

[Smackenzie]

Is it any use to go through Hilton direct for a property they own, or should I stick to properties such as Judy and Seth have for sale? I own at Elara already, and I dont intend to go through that expensive dog and pony show again. I just want the points as inexpensively as I can get them.

 

[presley]

Is it any use to go through Hilton direct for a property they own, or should I stick to properties such as Judy and Seth have for sale? I own at Elara already, and I dont intend to go through that expensive dog and pony show again. I just want the points as inexpensively as I can get them.

Looks like you answered your own question.
FWIW, you can easily buy resale on Tug and on Ebay. Many of the ads in the marketplace are put up by licensed resale agents anyway. For Ebay, just check out the seller before you bid on anything.

 

[Smackenzie]

Looks like someone on Tug classifieds is going to be it, unless someone says they arent legit. The name of the agency is HGVC resale. Im not nuts about that, but Ive had a little email back and forth, and everything seems legit. No requests for money up front, all costs very clearly spelled out, RE license checks out. Estoppel is part of the deal. The deals are good, but not so good as to make you wonder if its for real. I asked directly if they were a part of Hilton, HGVC, and they sad no...they were authorized resellers of HGVC properties. We'll see.

 

[Talent312]

Not saying they are deceptive, but calling themselves an authorized reseller is puffery. HGVC does not limit transactions to a list of "authorized" agencies. They accept transactions from anyone who provides them with the appropriate transfer docs... as I have done myself, which I 'spose makes me "authorized?" <snort>

 

[Smackenzie]

Not saying they are deceptive, but calling themselves an authorized reseller is puffery. HGVC does not limit transactions to a list of "authorized" agencies. They accept transactions from anyone who provides them with the appropriate transfer docs... as I have done myself, which I 'spose makes me "authorized?" <snort>

I guess according to their rules, it does. Another line item for your resume.

I've been presented with one item that's appealing, I think. It's this:
3,400 pts. HGVC on the Las Vegas Strip
$2,000 - Maint. & Tax $570 - '15 & '16 points available. Closing costs @ 450.

Opinions?

Stefanie

 

[Talent312]

I've been presented with one item that's appealing, I think. It's this:
3,400 pts. HGVC on the Las Vegas Strip
$2,000 - Maint. & Tax $570 - '15 & '16 points available. Closing costs @ 450.

The MF quote is from last year but does not include annual club dues ($140).
They also forgot to mention the transfer + activation fees:
... Club Activation Fee .(Enrollment) $ 315
... Membership Transfer Fee $ 399
But otherwise, it's a fair offer.

 

[Smackenzie]

Actually, they did mention those other fees at exactly the prices you quoted. I'm the one who left them out by mistake.

Very well then. I believe I'll accept the offer since you say it's fair. Although my cheapatarian little soul HAS to try for a lesser price, so I'll open with less than 2K and go from there.

Thanks for the help, and let's see where this goes.

 

[Kendall in Texas]

Just know that it will take a couple of months. You will likely have to rescue the 2015 points as using them by the end of the year after the two months to close will be difficult.

 

[SmithOp]

I guess according to their rules, it does. Another line item for your resume.



I've been presented with one item that's appealing, I think. It's this:

3,400 pts. HGVC on the Las Vegas Strip

$2,000 - Maint. & Tax $570 - '15 & '16 points available. Closing costs @ 450.



Opinions?



Stefanie

Why are you considering such a small number of points? You've stated you are already low level Elite ( >14,000 points) and have family, this small point contract will not give you much additional usage. These are typically sold to people with very limited budget in order to get their foot in the door.


Sent from my iPad using the strange new version of Tapatalk

 

[Smackenzie]

Good Question. I think I might be Operating in panic mode. Not good for anyone.

It makes more sense to buy a larger block of points, but right now, it seems with smaller point packages, the sellers want too much. For example: 7,000 pts. HGVC on the Las Vegas Strip. Price:$10,000 - Maint. & Tax $787 - '15 & '16 points available.

That's not quite twice as many points for proportionately a lot more cash outlay. Maint & tax are a bit higher.

I don't know, maybe I'm doing this all wrong, but I need some points to get me through this planning for Tuscany. I understand about rescue and using doing something with them by the end of the year. It shouldn't be a problem. In the end, I should wind up with 6800 points available in 2016. Then, I'll feel safe about looking for a bigger block of points where I can take my time and try to find a better deal.

Right now this small block will be more of a placeholder for me now when I'm in a time crunch situation. And maybe I'm just nuts. I don't know. Again, this is my first time buying for essentially just points. I'm not adverse to the property; it's where I usually stay in Las Vegas anyway.

 

[presley]

Right now this small block will be more of a placeholder for me now when I'm in a time crunch situation. And maybe I'm just nuts. I don't know. Again, this is my first time buying for essentially just points. I'm not adverse to the property; it's where I usually stay in Las Vegas anyway.

It doesn't sound like a good buy. It sounds like you are in a hurry to book something. Buying something that may not be the best fit will still take you at least 2 months before you can use any of the points.

I, too, almost posted earlier that what you were buying wasn't that good of a choice. I noticed you already own a couple contracts and thought you probably knew what you were doing. Your last post makes me think maybe you aren't really sure. I know you are looking at your cash outlay and MFs, but there are other ways to project overall costs over the next 10, 20 years or however long you plan on keeping this.

You said you want to buy this for a placeholder and later buy what you really want. What will you do with this contract? Keep it and have another MF to pay every year? Try to sell it for a loss? You may be better off renting from another owner until you find a contract that you want to keep and use for the long haul.

 

[Smackenzie]

Good points, all. I thought I knew what I was doing, but the longer I look at this, it becomes clear that I don't. So, I need to do a hard stop, and get educated. I could go through with the original plan, but its going to be something I just threw money at rather than a well researched and executed purchase. Also why I think I also need to consult a pro like Judy or Seth. I don't know what I'm doing and am probably like chum to the Sharks about now. No thanks.

As it turns out, I got my 2 weeks in Tuscany reserved, but it took all my remaining points for 2016 and a lot of 2017. Two years ago we went to England and Scotland and it was nearly the same story. I'm doing all this for my mother who is 93 and loves to travel. These were on her bucket list. Last one is a cruise around Hawaii. Its hard to tell your mama no about things. In exchange, she'll buy my airfare; First Class. When we went to England, we took the QM2 and wound up in the Queen Elizabeth Suite. We'd reserved a Penthouse.

Ok, need to back up and just breathe. That, and call a pro to think for me.

Thank you, everyone. I'm not a ditzy person, really. In regular life I was a Telecommunications Engineer and Software Tester for a lot of years, and currently I run a med. size snack food Co.

 

[Jason245]

Good points, all. I thought I knew what I was doing, but the longer I look at this, it becomes clear that I don't. So, I need to do a hard stop, and get educated. I could go through with the original plan, but its going to be something I just threw money at rather than a well researched and executed purchase. Also why I think I also need to consult a pro like Judy or Seth. I don't know what I'm doing and am probably like chum to the Sharks about now. No thanks.

As it turns out, I got my 2 weeks in Tuscany reserved, but it took all my remaining points for 2016 and a lot of 2017. Two years ago we went to England and Scotland and it was nearly the same story. I'm doing all this for my mother who is 93 and loves to travel. These were on her bucket list. Last one is a cruise around Hawaii. Its hard to tell your mama no about things. In exchange, she'll buy my airfare; First Class. When we went to England, we took the QM2 and wound up in the Queen Elizabeth Suite. We'd reserved a Penthouse.

Ok, need to back up and just breathe. That, and call a pro to think for me.

Thank you, everyone. I'm not a ditzy person, really. In regular life I was a Telecommunications Engineer and Software Tester for a lot of years, and currently I run a med. size snack food Co.

Given the temporary nature of your needs, you might just consider renting something for the week you need.

 

[Cyberc]

As others said. Take your time, don't rush into it.

I too was in kinda of a rush last year. I really wanted a 1br at the strip with 6200 pts but every time I found one Hilton bought right under me(last one at 9k)

I ended up with 3.400 gold points at the strip for 1k including closing. After closing was done, I found that reseller by mistake deeded me a 3400 gold at Karen ave at a higher mf.

I ended up with my money back and paid this year mf so I could keep the points.

I stopped my search until this July when I "stumped " upon a 1br 6200 at the strip. Listed for 8k I offered 5k and got it with this years points included

The account just got online today and I'm able to use the points.

So by waiting I actually got what I really wanted 6200annual pts at 571$ in MF.

So for your own sake (and you wallet) wait until you find what you really wants.

Regards

 

[presley]

. Last one is a cruise around Hawaii.

Congrats on getting your Tuscany booked with what you already own. It's really sweet that you are taking your mom on all her bucket list trips.

Don't worry about using up all your points for the next couple of years. The Hawaii cruise is an easy one. You'll save lots of money by not using HGVC to book it. When you figure up the costs of the MFs and additional costs payable to the cruise line, paying cash directly to the cruise company almost always comes out much less expensive.

 

[Smackenzie]

Good job, Cyberc! Hope my luck runs like yours.

Presley, you're right about the cruise lines and HGVC. I looked into it a couple of years ago and was shocked at what it would cost via HGVC. No thanks.

Oh, I forgot about our upcoming trip to Las Vegas. We'll be staying at the Trump Towers for 4 nights with a friend of hers who will be visiting from Scotland. Yikes. Then there's my son who just called wanting to take the G/F who is coming in from Japan on Thursday to Disney for a few days. It hasn't come up yet, but my daughter and her fiancée will be home for Christmas from Germany, and they all love the Mickeys Merry Christmas party. Now you see why I've got lots of points. Haven't looked into rental, but it sounds like a good idea.

 

[llwilson]

Still trying to learn before I take the leap . . . but in reading this thread, I have a question. What is the difference between a 1 bed with 6200 pts and a 2 bed with 5800 points. Do you need to consider the number of beds or just the points? The points only come into play when trading, right?

 

[Jason245]

Still trying to learn before I take the leap . . . but in reading this thread, I have a question. What is the difference between a 1 bed with 6200 pts and a 2 bed with 5800 points. Do you need to consider the number of beds or just the points? The points only come into play when trading, right?

The mf is the difference. (And number of points ).

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[JSparling]

Still trying to learn before I take the leap . . . but in reading this thread, I have a question. What is the difference between a 1 bed with 6200 pts and a 2 bed with 5800 points. Do you need to consider the number of beds or just the points? The points only come into play when trading, right?

Unless you care about home week reservations (which few do, especially with Vegas properties) you want the most points for the lowest MF. A 1 bedroom will automatically have lower MF's than a 2 bedroom at the same property. So you'd want to buy the 1 bedroom as it's more points and less MF. If the 2 bedroom is at a "lower" property it's possible the MF's would be cheaper for that. Just take the annual MF and divide by the annual points. That's your "MF per point" number which is critical. The more points you have the more "reservation power" you have.

 

[JSparling]

I'm lost and this post doesn't add up to me. SMack, you're a 14,000 Elite person which likely means you own 2 platinum weeks at 7,000 each. So why is your post called "My First Purchase"? And how do you know so little about HGVC? Unless you bought those 14,000 way back in the day before HGVC changed the rules (they used to allow resale points to count towards Elite status, now they don't) then you've spent a huge amount of cash on your 14,000 points and I doubt you'd do that without educating yourself. Seems odd to me. Is this some type of game or (poorly) veiled advertisement?

It goes without saying that the real HGVC would have their team of million dollar lawyers all over the company you said named themselves "HGVC Resale." Although they probably wouldn't need to since trademark laws wouldn't have allowed them to create a legitimate company with that name anyway because Hilton has all names, and similar names, protected. Do you think I could get away by opening a hotel and naming it "Hampton Inn by JSparling?"

As others pointed out the numbers don’t appear to be possible for the fees/closing. There are 4 charges to consider when buying a HGVC resale property – closing ($ varies), estoppel $35, resort transfer fee $399, resort activation fee $315. The last one (the activation fee of $315) is paid direct to HGVC once they bill you a few months after the deal closes. There’s no way to avoid this. So with your number from your “seller” of $450 “all in” for closing/transfer that leaves $135 for everything else. Who’s paying the $399 that is required by HGVC for the transfer? I suppose the seller could be paying that but then they need to say that and your contract better read that way before you sign it. Make sure all 4 items I mentioned are addressed in your contract as who is paying them.

Anyway, your question (if this isn't some type of hoax) was if 3,400 on the Strip was a good buy with the numbers you mentioned. No, a gold 1-bedroom unit at the Strip location should cost you no more than $500 PLUS about $1,000 for all the closing stuff.

There is the chance that you’re legitimately asking these questions and the seller you found for the 3,400 unit is a total scammer or has “dirty” title and is taking advantage of your lack of knowledge. If that’s the case you could risking handing them the money and never getting clean/clear title of the deed.

** I wrote this entire post and then went to the classifieds. The name of the company is “HGVResales”. Not HGVC Resales as you said. While that’s better and maybe possible a legal name for them to use, I still doubt Hilton wouldn’t sue them since they’re in same industry. It’s like if I wanted to open a fast food restaurant and name it “McDanald’s”. I don’t think I could get away with that. Now if I wanted to open a dry cleaners and name it “McDonald’s” – that would probably be OK since the industry with the “real” McDonald’s is totally different and I’m not their competitor as a dry cleaner.

Also, after scrolling through the classifieds I found 4 units for 7,000 at the Strip property listed by this “HGVResales” for less than you said in your post that said “It makes more sense to buy a larger block of points, but right now, it seems with smaller point packages, the sellers want too much. For example: 7,000 pts. HGVC on the Las Vegas Strip. Price:$10,000."

There is a unit for 7,000 points listed for $6,969, $8,000, $8,750, and $9,000. Why didn’t you notice those when you were in the same section finding the 3,400 point unit? Now I’m a step closer to believing your post isn’t sincere. So I kept looking – in October 2009 you posted that HGVC had contacted you and then you praised TUG members for letting you know how much cheaper resale is. Then you didn’t post for 6 years. Now you’re back asking almost the same question. But now you have acquired 14,000 points (and Elite status) that I will assume you didn’t have in October 2009 based on that post (http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108961).

 

[Talent312]

October 2009 -- you posted that HGVC had contacted you and then you praised TUG members for letting you know how much cheaper resale is. Then you didn’t post for 6 years. Now you’re back asking almost the same question.

It's uncany, but the OP got the exact same advice in 2009. In fact, I made a post in that thread. The OP likely stayed away from TUG for 6 years becuz, such advice notwithstanding, he/she bought directly from HGVC anyway and didn't care to tell us... But there's no harm in that. Truth be told, many here also bought directly from HGVC as a first-purchase.
.
.

 

[Smackenzie]

I'm not a hoax or anything of that sort. I'm a very real person, with very real limitations. When I said first purchase, I meant first purchase in the resale market. Even if I wasn't clear in the title, I was very plain later about wanting to buy in the resale market. Lack of clarity is likely because sometimes I'm not very clear if I don't edit myself well before hitting the send button. That's exactly what happened when I misquoted the name of the agency. Honest mistake. But no, you try to make it into something it's not. You ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

There's no need to indulge in trying to shame me. Talent and JSparling, my apologies that I haven't the photographic memory you seem to think I should have. It's shameful and hurtful you dragging out something I posted and forgot about 6 years ago right after my husband died. If being forgetful about something asked 6 years ago is prohibited, well, I don't know what to say. Do you both feel better having gone after me hammer and tongs?

I don't need this sort of 'help'. If some of my questions don't make sense it's because of rank ignorance, that's all. I thought this was a safe place to ask questions and become educated about time shares. I must be extraordinarily dense, but if so, I'd hoped this forum could help. I see now that's not the case. I haven't got all day to do nothing else than study the ins & outs of timeshares. You've ascribed motivations and such to me that are absolutely false and insulting. Go ahead, somebody look me up..investigate..my real name is there...I'm no RE agent or work for anyone who could or would have a reason to gain from posting here. I'm a private citizen.

I'll be removing myself from this forum. i certainly never expected to be excoriated here. Particularly over not being as educated in time share rules and protocols as the rest of you. There are some things in life I've discovered where I need to be literally led by the hand to learn. I'm finding this is one of them. I'd always been willing to admit I don't know about certain things and ask for help or explanations. Normally, folks are willing to assist. To a certain degree, you did. Boy, this is not a place to let your slip show. I'm usually a pretty smart cookie (lapsed Mensa member), but not everyone is that level of smart about everything.

I'd love to have some pithy Bon mot to sign off with, but I don't. Goodbye. I'll be unsubscribing.

 

[TUGBrian]

as mentioned in the email reply, the vast majority of the replies here were very helpful to you so much so you thanked them for their assitance and were carrying along fine in the thread. Only the most recent replies raised some concerns about a similar post you made many years ago asking similar questions about resale.

Certainly sorry that you took such offense to the most recent of said posts, but I didnt read them as a personal attack on you vs people who are genuinely curious about your situation and as written feel it doesnt add up and as such they want more answers. People are genuinely frustrated when advice is asked for and then ignored, and then asked for again, surely this is something we can can agree with?

I hope that perhaps after a day or so to cool off, you will reconsider your stance on the forum...and you appear to have gotten the answers to the questions you seek now going on 6+ years. I certainly hope that sort of effort doesnt warrant your threat to go out and tell everyone how you were so badly mistreated on TUG.