My Aruba Surf Club tour: "Stupid is as stupid does"

[SpikeMauler]

Went on a tour this morning at the Surf Club. The wife and I met with the saleperson(who seemed nice enough)downstairs and headed upstairs for the presentation. We chit chatted for 15 minutes or so about the weather and how our stay was so far. After chit chat we got started. Salesman looks at paperwork and says " I see you own at Frenchman's Cove and bought it resale". I say that is correct. He asks why I would buy resale. I told him I bought resale because I saved $22,000 off the retail price and that I had no use for MRP's. I told him I did understand why some people bought from Marriott, but in my case it didn't work for me. He seemed a little taken back by the amount I paid for my resale week.
He asked if I was familiar with the new points program. I told him I was somewhat familiar but didn't know all the ins and outs which was why I was there. He asked what I knew and I told him. He asks "where did you learn all that". I told him from "TUG". His face kind of drained and he looked at me blankly.This is where it starts to go bad. He says "I see you're from New York so I'm gonna be direct with you since New Yorkers seem to appreciate that". I said "please do". He says it would be "stupid" of me not to convert my MFC week to points. I ask why. He says that points people get preference over deeded weeks people at their home resorts. He says I'll now have a hard time getting a MFC March week. He also says that II Marriott weeks will eventually dry up and I'll be left out of the loop. I tell him I'm not so sure of that, but I guess time will tell. I tell him I like the flexibility of the points program but not sure it's for me. He asks me flat out if I'm interested in converting to points. I say probably not at this time. He says again " we'll I don't understand why you're here. You say you like it but don't want to convert. That's just "stupid'
He looks at his watch and says "well, we got an hour left. What are we gonna do"? I say I don't know, what do you usually do? He asks me why I was there(again). I said to learn more about the point system. He says "you know everything(about points)". I tell him I dont know everything and to explain it. He gets up and excuses himself. He returns 10 minutes later and asks me to put myself in his shoes. Says if I was him how would I sell something to me. I tell him I dont know that I'm not a salesman. He asks why I would waste valuable vacation time with him discussing something I already know about. I tell him again I dont know everything, but he refuses to have a conversation about points. He again says he doesn't understand why I'm there. I've about had it now. I tell him I really didn't want to be there but the wife made me go. I then tell him I'm about ready to get very "honest and direct" with him. I tell him I wasn't the one who brought up that I was a resale buyer and I wasn't the one who asked "why did I buy resale".
I'm just starting to elevate the conversation and he cuts me off and hands me a piece of paper(which I didn't look at). He then says to me "There's two kinds of people in this world. One who recognizes opportunity and seizes it and another who is "stupid" who lets the boat pass him by. Which one are you"? I tell him I'm the stupid one who lets the boat pass him by. He gets up and says he's going to get someone to sign off on the gift. The whole time I was pleasant. I never raised my voice once. As soon as he realized I wouldn't convert his whole demeanor changed and he became obnoxious and standoffish. He acted like a fith grader pouting and sulking, slunk in his chair. All in all not a good experience and I never did learn anymore about the point system. On a brighter note we really like the resort and might be looking to buy a resale week here .

 

[Luckybee]

Thanks Spike....we're going down to Aruba(ocean club is our home resort) in Nov and havent toured in over 10 years. We had thought it might be worth the time of the tour to get the info from the horses mouth on the points program. You just reminded why we dont tour, and wont now

It's too bad really...the reps in Aruba didnt have bad reputations prior to the points program. Wonder if they're getting a tad desperate given the difficulties I would expect they're having trying to sell the points concept to what I expect is a pretty tough audience(meaning current owners in Aruba)!

 

[mtnpilot]

Gosh, the multiple reports about bad attitudes among salespeople certainly seem to indicate a systemic problem at Marriott these days. Perhaps the sales force is getting frustrated that few are buying into the new "system", and I can only imagine that this economy is forcing many potential buyers to sit on the sideline. I certainly hope this is not indicative of a permanent change at Marriott.

I enrolled my two weeks (including a Summit Watch ski week) into the points program, and then I realized - I can buy a resale week at drastically reduced prices, and use my "points" with my existing weeks to go all over the system (as available). With the points I have, I really don't need to worry about whether or not future resales will convert, because the existing points pool I have will almost always be sufficient for my needs. So, I for one will never ever likely buy trust points...

So, who will?

 

[billymach4]

Too Bad!

Shucks. I guess there is nothing else to learn about the MVCD points. I like your style!

 

[Big Matt]

Here's my take:

Sales of weeks were drying up.
The Marriott sales folks were told they would sell more with new points program.
They aren't selling more
The salesmen are frustrated.

Kind of sucks for them, right?

No excuse to be rude, but the economy is really hurting this industry.

 

[timeos2]

now have a hard time getting a MFC March week. He also says that II Marriott weeks will eventually dry up and I'll be left out of the loop. I tell him I'm not so sure of that, but I guess time will tell. I tell him I like the flexibility of the points program but not sure it's for me. He asks me flat out if I'm interested in converting to points. I say probably not at this time. He says again " we'll I don't understand why you're here. You say you like it but don't want to convert. That's just "stupid'
He looks at his watch and says "well, we got an hour left. What are we gonna do"? I say I don't know, what do you usually do? He asks me why I was there(again). I said to learn more about the point system. He says "you know everything(about points)". I tell him I dont know everything and to explain it. He gets up and excuses himself. He returns 10 minutes later and asks me to put myself in his shoes. Says if I was him how would I sell something to me. I tell him I dont know that I'm not a salesman. He asks why I would waste valuable vacation time with him discussing something I already know about. I tell him again I dont know everything, but he refuses to have a conversation about points. He again says he doesn't understand why I'm there. I've about had it now. I tell him I really didn't want to be there but the wife made me go. I then tell him I'm about ready to get very "honest and direct" with him. I tell him I wasn't the one who brought up that I was a resale buyer and I wasn't the one who asked "why did I buy resale".
I'm just starting to elevate the conversation and he cuts me off and hands me a piece of paper(which I didn't look at). He then says to me "There's two kinds of people in this world. One who recognizes opportunity and seizes it and another who is "stupid" who lets the boat pass him by. Which one are you"? I tell him I'm the stupid one who lets the boat pass him by. He gets up and says he's going to get someone to sign off on the gift. The whole time I was pleasant. I never raised my voice once. As soon as he realized I wouldn't convert his whole demeanor changed and he became obnoxious and standoffish. He acted like a fith grader pouting and sulking, slunk in his chair. All in all not a good experience and I never did learn anymore about the point system. On a brighter note we really like the resort and might be looking to buy a resale week here .

This sounds very much like our more recent Wyndham sales pitches to owners - the very negative approach to sales and offers (as in "Last week we had this GREAT deal but this week we don't") - strange and very irritating to us.

I guess Marriott has managed to Wyndhamize themselves too. What a come down from what had been one of the best brands and least obnoxious sales groups now may be heading toward being one of the worst.

 

[BocaBoy]

This sounds very much like our more recent Wyndham sales pitches to owners - the very negative approach to sales and offers (as in "Last week we had this GREAT deal but this week we don't") - strange and very irritating to us.

I guess Marriott has managed to Wyndhamize themselves too. What a come down from what had been one of the best brands and least obnoxious sales groups now may be heading toward being one of the worst.

I don't know about one of the worst--I have seen some much worse elsewhere--but certainly not what they used to be.

 

[modoaruba]

Thanks Spike....we're going down to Aruba(ocean club is our home resort) in Nov and havent toured in over 10 years. We had thought it might be worth the time of the tour to get the info from the horses mouth on the points program. You just reminded why we dont tour, and wont now

It's too bad really...the reps in Aruba didnt have bad reputations prior to the points program. Wonder if they're getting a tad desperate given the difficulties I would expect they're having trying to sell the points concept to what I expect is a pretty tough audience(meaning current owners in Aruba)!

Just got back from the Ocean Club.We have been going every year for 12 years and every year we take the "tour" for the points.15,000 points/year.Adds up.
We are pretty much up front with the sales force that we are there for the points gift and not to buy at this time (for the past 10 years).
Occassionaly you get an abnoxious salesman and since I was a math major in college I can dance around them with the numbers they throw at us.
Luckily we had a salesman who was very honest with us and told us point blank that since we come every year,the point system has LESS value than deeded weeks.
Tug is a wonderful educational site with various points of views and insights.
If anyone wants to make the right choice regrding points,deeds,resales,read as much as you can and come to your own conclusion.An educated consumer is the salesman's deadliest enemy.



'

 

[DanCali]

He says it would be "stupid" of me not to convert my MFC week to points. I ask why. He says that points people get preference over deeded weeks people at their home resorts. He says I'll now have a hard time getting a MFC March week. He also says that II Marriott weeks will eventually dry up and I'll be left out of the loop. I tell him I'm not so sure of that, but I guess time will tell....


"There's two kinds of people in this world. One who recognizes opportunity and seizes it and another who is "stupid" who lets the boat pass him by. Which one are you"?

FUD... Scare tactics... let alone the rudeness....

I think I would have turned on the voice recorder on my phone at some point and posted on here. Not that we need more unemployment but these types of salespeople shouldn't interact with people on vacation... If they invite me to an "owner update" I don't need the red carpet treatment, but I do expect to be treated with a certain amount of courtesy.

 

[SpikeMauler]

FUD... Scare tactics... let alone the rudeness....

I think I would have turned on the voice recorder on my phone at some point and posted on here. Not that we need more unemployment but these types of salespeople shouldn't interact with people on vacation... If they invite me to an "owner update" I don't need the red carpet treatment, but I do expect to be treated with a certain amount of courtesy.

I agree Dan. He was super rude and obnoxious. I almost called over the sales manager but decided against it. As much as I thought he needed to be reprimanded or fired I didnt want to potentially cost him his job(which is why I haven't mentioned him by name here). Times are tough now and maybe he has a family to take care of. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and chalked it up to him having a bad day. I'll tell ya, it was real hard staying calm after being called stupid for the third time. My threshold is usually "two stupids" before I take offense...
BTW I'm here till thursday if anyone has any questions about the resorts.

 

[GregT]

Spike,

Thanks for the info -- and enjoy your time in Aruba!

I have a different question for you, unrelated to your (bad) sales experience.

Aruba is a spot that I'll trade into one day via II (not points), and therefore I'm likely to get a Garden View (assuming Aruba Surf).

From walking the property, do you have an opinion of how the view quality is for Garden View traders? As a Marriott owner, I don't think I'll get parking lot view, but you never know.

Any perspective would be appreciated -- I'm targeting Aruba in a couple of years now.....

Thanks again and enjoy the trip!

Greg

 

[tombo]

I don't know about one of the worst--I have seen some much worse elsewhere--but certainly not what they used to be.

As a previous Marriott salesman I wonder if you ever had your days where you lost it? To have guest after guest sit in front of you who are only there for the gifts while you make zero income is frustrating to say the least. I know most of your sales came from people who came with no intention of buying, but there is a big difference between those people who made a spur of the moment purchase and the educated resale buying TUG majority who will virtually never buy retail in todays economy with the dirt cheap resale prices and no ROFR being exercised. If you were still selling timeshares and a TUG member sat in front of you explaining that they only buy resale would you too ask why they are there?


I have been in 100% commission sales (never timeshares) and when someone spends the day educating themselves about what you are selling with no intention of ever buying, or not buying anytime in the near future, it is a day that you could have gone fishing or slept all day and made the same money. Some customers are repeat shoppers who never buy anything but enjoy the gifts. While you are with the tire kickers other salesmen have real customers that are potential buyers. It does get frustrating for both parties to butt heads and is in the end a waste of time for both the salesman and the guest.

I do not go on any timeshare presentations anymore because it is such a miserable experience having the salesman pressure me to buy something that there is zero chance I am going to buy, and it is totally unfair to a hard working salesman who has a family to support who didn't get a chance to make a sale to a real potential customer. When those of us who only buy resale attend presentations we are making sure that the salesman in front of us makes no money.

Don't go to sales presentations for the gifts because they really aren't worth 2 hours of your vacation you spent several thousand dollars to take. Is $100 meal coupon at a restaurant you wouldn't pay to eat at really worth 2 hours of your trip? Is 2 tickets to a theme park? It isn't worth it to me. Also don't go to a sales presentation hoping to learn about the new points program either because as SpikeMauler so eloquently detailed, a sales presentation is not the place to learn more about points, TUG is.

Most TUGGERS (in fact most Americans) have never had to work hard for days or weeks for zero income because they made zero sales and don't understand the feeling. Most Americans have a job where they get paid everytime they go to work. The majority of people who have worked a 100% commission job will have some empathy for the timeshare salesman's plight and not want to waste the salesman's time (or their own). Most timeshare salesman lie and you can justify that they deserve to have their time wasted, but not all timeshare salesman lie, and all do work very hard to make a living. When on vacation enjoy your trip and do yourself and the sales force a favor by skipping the miserable 2 hour tour.

 

[Old Hickory]

As a previous Marriott salesman I wonder if you ever had your days where you lost it? To have guest after guest sit in front of you who are only there for the gifts while you make zero income is frustrating to say the least. I know most of your sales came from people who came with no intention of buying, but there is a big difference between those people who made a spur of the moment purchase and the educated resale buying TUG majority who will virtually never buy retail in todays economy with the dirt cheap resale prices and no ROFR being exercised. If you were still selling timeshares and a TUG member sat in front of you explaining that they only buy resale would you too ask why they are there?


I have been in 100% commission sales (never timeshares) and when someone spends the day educating themselves about what you are selling with no intention of ever buying, or not buying anytime in the near future, it is a day that you could have gone fishing or slept all day and made the same money. Some customers are repeat shoppers who never buy anything but enjoy the gifts. While you are with the tire kickers other salesmen have real customers that are potential buyers. It does get frustrating for both parties to butt heads and is in the end a waste of time for both the salesman and the guest.

I do not go on any timeshare presentations anymore because it is such a miserable experience having the salesman pressure me to buy something that there is zero chance I am going to buy, and it is totally unfair to a hard working salesman who has a family to support who didn't get a chance to make a sale to a real potential customer. When those of us who only buy resale attend presentations we are making sure that the salesman in front of us makes no money.

Don't go to sales presentations for the gifts because they really aren't worth 2 hours of your vacation you spent several thousand dollars to take. Is $100 meal coupon at a restaurant you wouldn't pay to eat at really worth 2 hours of your trip? Is 2 tickets to a theme park? It isn't worth it to me. Also don't go to a sales presentation hoping to learn about the new points program either because as SpikeMauler so eloquently detailed, a sales presentation is not the place to learn more about points, TUG is.

Most TUGGERS (in fact most Americans) have never had to work hard for days or weeks for zero income because they made zero sales and don't understand the feeling. Most Americans have a job where they get paid everytime they go to work. The majority of people who have worked a 100% commission job will have some empathy for the timeshare salesman's plight and not want to waste the salesman's time (or their own). Most timeshare salesman lie and you can justify that they deserve to have their time wasted, but not all timeshare salesman lie, and all do work very hard to make a living. When on vacation enjoy your trip and do yourself and the sales force a favor by skipping the miserable 2 hour tour.

Thanks tombo. Well done.

 

[SpikeMauler]

As a previous Marriott salesman I wonder if you ever had your days where you lost it? To have guest after guest sit in front of you who are only there for the gifts while you make zero income is frustrating to say the least. I know most of your sales came from people who came with no intention of buying, but there is a big difference between those people who made a spur of the moment purchase and the educated resale buying TUG majority who will virtually never buy retail in todays economy with the dirt cheap resale prices and no ROFR being exercised. If you were still selling timeshares and a TUG member sat in front of you explaining that they only buy resale would you too ask why they are there?


I have been in 100% commission sales (never timeshares) and when someone spends the day educating themselves about what you are selling with no intention of ever buying, or not buying anytime in the near future, it is a day that you could have gone fishing or slept all day and made the same money. Some customers are repeat shoppers who never buy anything but enjoy the gifts. While you are with the tire kickers other salesmen have real customers that are potential buyers. It does get frustrating for both parties to butt heads and is in the end a waste of time for both the salesman and the guest.

I do not go on any timeshare presentations anymore because it is such a miserable experience having the salesman pressure me to buy something that there is zero chance I am going to buy, and it is totally unfair to a hard working salesman who has a family to support who didn't get a chance to make a sale to a real potential customer. When those of us who only buy resale attend presentations we are making sure that the salesman in front of us makes no money.

Don't go to sales presentations for the gifts because they really aren't worth 2 hours of your vacation you spent several thousand dollars to take. Is $100 meal coupon at a restaurant you wouldn't pay to eat at really worth 2 hours of your trip? Is 2 tickets to a theme park? It isn't worth it to me. Also don't go to a sales presentation hoping to learn about the new points program either because as SpikeMauler so eloquently detailed, a sales presentation is not the place to learn more about points, TUG is.

Most TUGGERS (in fact most Americans) have never had to work hard for days or weeks for zero income because they made zero sales and don't understand the feeling. Most Americans have a job where they get paid everytime they go to work. The majority of people who have worked a 100% commission job will have some empathy for the timeshare salesman's plight and not want to waste the salesman's time (or their own). Many timeshare salesman lie and you can justify that they deserve to have their time wasted, but not all timeshare salesman lie, and all do work very hard to make a living. When on vacation enjoy your trip and do yourself and the sales force a favor by skipping the miserable 2 hour tour.

I'm sure selling timeshare is a tough gig and obviously not for everyone. My problem was that it was pitched to me that the presentation would be focused on learning about the new point system and the benefits of conversion. As I previously stated I didn't volunteer the information that I bought resale and I didn't volunteer the information of why I bought resale. He asked and I answered. I also didn't go in there waving the TUG banner. He asked, I answerd. I don't think calling a potential customer or professional "tour" taker(which I'm not) "stupid" is helpful or professional for that matter. I'm an easy going polite guy. There's no way my actions or attitude attributed to setting him off, unless you count the fact that I answerd that I wasn't interested in converting at that time after being asked. I told him I wasn't comfrotable converting at this time because I didn't understand the point system fully. He kept telling me I did know everything, and hence the ridiculous back and forth banter ensued. The bottom line is the guy was out of line. This is probably the last time I will attend a presentation, unless I'm actually ready to convert my week to points. Even then, now, I'll probably do it over the phone...

 

[modoaruba]

Lets understand something here.
When we arrive at the Ocean Club there is a voucher that comes with our greeting material that says to stop over at the MVCI desk to get a free gift.
We stop over and are given a free tube of aloe and an island VIP discount card.
In exchange we are asked for all our private info so they can look us up on the computer to see when the last time we took a tour.If it happens to be over a year they HOUND us to take another.Because THEY probably get some commission for us booking it.
It's NOT that WE initiated it.So lets get real.Everyone is in it for themselves.
I am also in retail and people wast my time frequently.It's part of doing business.
We have been going to Aruba for nearly 30 years and usually 2-3 times a year.
So for us the 1 1/2 hour tour is no biggie.We actually get to learn a few things that we did not previously understand.
An old sales ploy is that if you can't beat them demonize them.
And that was the insult hurled by tombo.

 

[tombo]

An old sales ploy is that if you can't beat them demonize them.
And that was the insult hurled by tombo.

What insult did I hurl? I simply stated a case for all to avoid timeshare presentations as a win-win for all. I am one of the most anti-developer TUGGERs on the whole web site, so please don't assume I am taking up for marriott or any developer. I have NEVER purchased a retail Timeshare week or points, never found a single valid reason justifying the extra money to buy retail, and I have always posted to all on TUG to always buy resale , never retail. Attending a timeshare sales presentation that one knows in advance is a timeshare sales presentation knowing that there is no way that you would ever purchase is a waste of everyone's time and lose-lose scenario for all involved IMO.

 

[modoaruba]

What insult did I hurl? I simply stated a case for all to avoid timeshare presentations as a win-win for all. I am one of the most anti-developer TUGGERs on the whole web site, so please don't assume I am taking up for marriott or any developer.

The list:
1) Only there for the gift-because MVCI desk insisted.
2)called a tire kicker because you could have gone fishing.
3)unfair to the hard working salesman who has a family to support-like we don't and OUR jobs.It's doing business.Win some loose some.Oh well.
4)Not worth MY 2 hours?That's your inference not everyone elses.
5)A sales presentation is not to learn about points-Tell that to the MVCI desk because THEY are the ones who told us to go to learn about the points along with various emails from MVCIU to do the same.And we DID learn about the points.
6)Miserable 2 hour tour?-maybe to you.But we did learn a lot and our salesman told us not to exchange into the point system.

Don't prejudge.

 

[AwayWeGo]

I'm So Out To Lunch I Never Know When I've Been Insulted.

What insult did I hurl?

If you hurled 1, I completely missed it.

Meanwhile, whenever the timeshare tour headhunters invite us to a presentation (for freebies), we don't accept -- if we accept -- till after making it clear in advance that we already own more timeshares than we need, that we don't want any more, & that we paid pennies on the full-freight dollar, resale, for the ones we do have.

Of course, the headhunters don't care about any of that. The purpose in my saying it is so that later, when the high-pressure timeshare sellers go off about wasting their time & what am I doing there if I'm not buying, & how stupid I am for not converting to what they're selling, etc., I can truthfully say that I made all that perfectly clear before accepting the no-obligation invitation from their marketing department.

Plus, the headhunters typically express the invitation in terms of offering us the opportunity to learn more about ways of maximizing our vacation opportunities, etc. -- i.e., an educational opportunity about points or options or whatever the flavor of the week happens to be. So it goes.

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[carolinept]

I have been on a few Marriott presentations, I don't go on them each time I'm at a timeshare, but if there is a resort I'd like to look at more closely and learn more about, I think there's nothing wrong with attending a presentation. In some cases, I've learned something that I was previously unaware of. In some cases, I was considering purchasing a week at that resort, albeit a resale week. I understand the bottom line for the salesman, but no one should be treated rudely or called stupid in any sales setting.

Furthermore, the new rollout of the Destination Club significantly changes the product that we have all purchased. I think at this point we are all entitled to attend a "Points Presentation" to learn more about the new program. ALL of my info on this program has come from TUG, and it sounds like the Marriott sales team isn't fully informed about the new product, but shouldn't we have an opportunity to hear it from the horse's mouth (albeit with a grain of salt?). I have received nothing from Marriott other than a glossy brochure. I'd like to have the choice to hear it from a Marriott representative without feeling bullied. The incentives are nice, but we are allowed to gather information about the new addition to our timeshare purchases.

We should be able to respond to an INVITATION from a Marriott resort to attend a points presentation without being expected to fork over $20,000. My husband is in sales, and he gives MANY presentations for his products without an expectation that a company will fork over $100,000+ for his product. He does not berate them when they politely decline.

Don't assume we're all professional tour takers. In this time of the "new" Marriott timeshare option, we should be able to respond to a solicitation from Marriott to "learn more about our new program" without the expectation that we will pay $20,000 plus for it.

Just my opinion. I can understand the frustration that the sales force may be experiencing at this point, but a lot of industries have gone through major changes and it has affected their bottom line. Bullying tactics won't do anything but upset previously faithful customers who were a big word-of-mouth referral and hurt the bottom line more.

 

[Bunk]

I usually agree with Tombo, especially when it comes to Marriott's new program, but I think I have to respectfully disagree here.

I sign up for these meetings for the points. The idea is to pick a time that does not prevent me from enjoying the rest of the day (which for us is usually the earliest morning session because our daughter is likely to be sleeping anyhow.)

I make it my practice to tell the salesperson up front that we're not interested in buying, that we want the points, but that we are interested in any recommendations to make our vacation better (i.e., restaurants, places to visit) or to help us use our timeshare more effectively. We sometimes do learn information helpful to us.

If the salesperson wants to end early, that's his or her business and we certainly don't object to this.

If the salespeople have a problem with the system, they should take it up with the Developer and not the guests.

 

[tombo]

I'm sure selling timeshare is a tough gig and obviously not for everyone. My problem was that it was pitched to me that the presentation would be focused on learning about the new point system and the benefits of conversion. As I previously stated I didn't volunteer the information that I bought resale and I didn't volunteer the information of why I bought resale. He asked and I answered. I also didn't go in there waving the TUG banner. He asked, I answerd. I don't think calling a potential customer or professional "tour" taker(which I'm not) "stupid" is helpful or professional for that matter. I'm an easy going polite guy. There's no way my actions or attitude attributed to setting him off, unless you count the fact that I answerd that I wasn't interested in converting at that time after being asked. I told him I wasn't comfrotable converting at this time because I didn't understand the point system fully. He kept telling me I did know everything, and hence the ridiculous back and forth banter ensued. The bottom line is the guy was out of line. This is probably the last time I will attend a presentation, unless I'm actually ready to convert my week to points. Even then, now, I'll probably do it over the phone...

I am not defending the undefensible actions of the salesman. I am not defending rudeness or lies even if the couple was a professional tour taker because the salesman is supposed to be able to act in a professional manner. I am also in no way saying anything bad about you or anyone else taking the tour. I have taken many myself. In the beginning I was not sure what I was going to see because i was always assured that it wasn't timeshares and that it was just an informative meeting, not a sales presentation. However years later I know each and every time that they are in fact trying to get me to go to a sales presentation. They might actually educate me and they will give me a tour of the resort, but I know that the entire purpose of the presentation is to make a sale.

Yes there is a street hawker who gets paid a commission to get folks to come, but we have the opportunity to say no rather than saying no after 90 minutes of misery. The front desk welcoming committee get paid to put bodies in seats, but we can tell them no too. The phone calls to the room are to get you to go even when you tell them you won't buy anything. Once again you can say no or don't answer the phone.

My point is at the end of the day everyone knows that it is a sales presentation they are going to. I see signs for open houses inviting everyone to stop in where they have cookies and punch, but I don't stop in if I am not interested in buying a house, or just not interested in buying that house. While waste my time and the real estate agent's time? Car lots have free burgers and cokes with balloons for the kids. If I am not in the market for a car why stop?

When I used to go to timeshare presentations they usually ended bad in a couple of ways. Often the salesman would repeatedly tell me lies I would have to bite my tongue ignoring and finally have to say something showing that I knew he was spouting lies. Confrontation followed. The salesman would become rude or get mad when I refused to buy no matter what angle he used to try and get me to buy, and it often became heated. I have left after almost going to blows following rude exchanges with sales/mgt and was mad for hours after it was over. I get my blood pressure up for a $75 or $100 gift while on vacation looking at a product I am not going to buy and it is never worth it to me in the end. Or finally I would have a really nice sales person who was so helpfull and friendly that I felt bad wasting his/her time when he might have made a sale had I not come. In the last case I would leave apologizing for wasting their time and feeling guilty about taking food out of his family's mouth for a $75 gift. I personally feel guilty when they are nice and wish i hadn't gone. This is my feelings and not a law or condemnation of others who disagree.

None of the above scenarios was pleasant and I knew before going that there would not be a good ending to me attending. I no longer attend and advise others to do the same. Others feel different and the gift is worth the misery to them.

I have never returned home from a vacation wishing I had gone to a timeshare presentation while I was there, but I have returned from many vacations where I wished that I hadn't gone throught the 2 hours of misery.

 

[Luckybee]

As a previous Marriott salesman I wonder if you ever had your days where you lost it? To have guest after guest sit in front of you who are only there for the gifts while you make zero income is frustrating to say the least. I know most of your sales came from people who came with no intention of buying, but there is a big difference between those people who made a spur of the moment purchase and the educated resale buying TUG majority who will virtually never buy retail in todays economy with the dirt cheap resale prices and no ROFR being exercised. If you were still selling timeshares and a TUG member sat in front of you explaining that they only buy resale would you too ask why they are there?


I have been in 100% commission sales (never timeshares) and when someone spends the day educating themselves about what you are selling with no intention of ever buying, or not buying anytime in the near future, it is a day that you could have gone fishing or slept all day and made the same money. Some customers are repeat shoppers who never buy anything but enjoy the gifts. While you are with the tire kickers other salesmen have real customers that are potential buyers. It does get frustrating for both parties to butt heads and is in the end a waste of time for both the salesman and the guest.

I do not go on any timeshare presentations anymore because it is such a miserable experience having the salesman pressure me to buy something that there is zero chance I am going to buy, and it is totally unfair to a hard working salesman who has a family to support who didn't get a chance to make a sale to a real potential customer. When those of us who only buy resale attend presentations we are making sure that the salesman in front of us makes no money.

Don't go to sales presentations for the gifts because they really aren't worth 2 hours of your vacation you spent several thousand dollars to take. Is $100 meal coupon at a restaurant you wouldn't pay to eat at really worth 2 hours of your trip? Is 2 tickets to a theme park? It isn't worth it to me. Also don't go to a sales presentation hoping to learn about the new points program either because as SpikeMauler so eloquently detailed, a sales presentation is not the place to learn more about points, TUG is.

Most TUGGERS (in fact most Americans) have never had to work hard for days or weeks for zero income because they made zero sales and don't understand the feeling. Most Americans have a job where they get paid everytime they go to work. The majority of people who have worked a 100% commission job will have some empathy for the timeshare salesman's plight and not want to waste the salesman's time (or their own). Most timeshare salesman lie and you can justify that they deserve to have their time wasted, but not all timeshare salesman lie, and all do work very hard to make a living. When on vacation enjoy your trip and do yourself and the sales force a favor by skipping the miserable 2 hour tour.

For the most part we agree with you and thats why we have never toured(even when we purchased we went in knowing what we wanted while the resort was being built . That said, I cant tell you the number of calls we've received over the years while on holidays from "the sales forces", wherein we've indicated we are not interested in further purchases but they've said come anyway so that we can get x(x=gifts, points, etc.). We've never felt it was worth the aggravation to attend just for the benefits. It's no wonder that many feel its ok to do that since the rep seem to leave that impression...I think part of it is that some reps feel that you dont really mean it when you say you dont intend to buy.

 

[Pens_Fan]

Put in an express lane.

If you are truly only interested in the Marriott points, or the restaurant gift certificate, there should be a method to allow you an out after 5 minutes without any hurt to either side.

If Marriott (and the salesman) really don't want the lookie-loos coming for the presentation, then don't offer anything for coming. That will save time for everyone.

Of course, that would also kill all those potential pressure sales.

It's a wonderful dance we all play. The salesman should understand his part.

 

[1950bing]

Timeshare sales people need to understand that not everyone in the world needs a timeshare. It seems as if they expect to sell 100% of the contacts.
No salesman should expect that ! They will get upset and ask why are you wasting their time. I look at as to why are they wasting MY time.

 

[tombo]

The list:
1) Only there for the gift-because MVCI desk insisted.
2)called a tire kicker because you could have gone fishing.
3)unfair to the hard working salesman who has a family to support-like we don't and OUR jobs.It's doing business.Win some loose some.Oh well.
4)Not worth MY 2 hours?That's your inference not everyone elses.
5)A sales presentation is not to learn about points-Tell that to the MVCI desk because THEY are the ones who told us to go to learn about the points along with various emails from MVCIU to do the same.And we DID learn about the points.
6)Miserable 2 hour tour?-maybe to you.But we did learn a lot and our salesman told us not to exchange into the point system.

Don't prejudge.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I was giving my opinion and feelings on the matter. Since you itemized a list i will respond with MY FEELINGS, not how everyone should feel.

1. Most people go for the gift. Would you spend 90 minutes attending a timeshare sales presentation if they didn't gve a gift and/or 15,000 points? In your post you said you go for the 15,000 points. If the answer is no you wouldn't go unless they offered a gift/points, then yes you went for the gift.

2. I said while a salesman is with a "tire kicker" who is not going to buy anything that the salesman made zero money and could have been away from work fishing and made the same income which is zero. I hate to do that to someone. I have empathy for others. I don't sell timeshares thank goodness but would want others to not come for the gift and waste my time if I did.

3. If you attend knowing that you will not buy no matter what, yes it is unfair to the salesman IMO and something I doubt you would do to a family member or close friend who sold timeshares for a living. Dealing with "gift getters" is part of the business where they have to work for zero pay. The fact that they have to do it wtihout getting paid when people show up with no intention of buying doesn't mean that I personally feel good about wasting their time or will do so just because I can. Once again this is how I feel, you feel differently.

4. I said it is not worth 2 hours of MY vacation time. You must have assumed it meant your vacation time.

5. If you really feel that you will get an honest explanation of the points system from a Marriott timeshare sales person, good for you. Feel free to base your points conversion and purchase decsions on the salesman because they are always honest and never biased.