MVC Resorts with On-Site EV Chargers

[Eric B]

I drive a plug in hybrid rather than a full ev and only use about 11 kWh for a full charge. Comparing my battery range to the charge, it seems like for a week stay, charging would add less than $20 in electricity costs. I usually don’t drive to TS stays because of where I live, but think that would be within the margin of error for total cost to maintain a unit based on how much cleaning and repairs are needed due to reasonable guest activity. It doesn’t bother me either way whether a TS allows it for free to the guests, but I do think the HOAs should actually make s conscious decision and include it as a budget line item if they do.

 

[Dean]

you are welcome.

I could have gone into the fact that every time an upgrade is proposed there will be a vocal minority
that states that they don't use it so they do not want it.
If they had there way--there might not be pools, exercise rooms etc--
It is bad enough that the standard of the units is nowhere near what they were 30 years ago.

As I've stated, I think it reasonable to make a judgement about what should or should not be covered by the maintenance fee. I think there is a list of what would be considered core to the resort which would vary with the resort, a beach resort would have a different list than an Urban resort. There are some gray areas though and would be lots of varied opinions. I'd consider carts, front desk (usually 24 hrs), maintenance, housekeeping (once per week or stay if less than a week), basic room amenities (shampoo, dishes, etc, etc); we could have quite a list. I guess a gym OR gym option should be included though only a small % would use it. I personally do not feel wine socials or bingo as basic amenities but YMMV and there are other considerations like the % of guests participating. For most resorts, esp larger ones, I personally consider providing EV chargers as core in 2024 and I'm OK with charges or to be included with fees (and I was and said so before even looking at EV's) but I'm also OK with having them for cost as long as the costs are reasonable. They would not be reasonable if they farm them out to a company though IMO.

I think Eric's guesstimate of cost for charge for a week is high for the actual cost of electricity. I could charge my Tesla from zero to 100% for less than that cost of electricity which should run less than 20¢ KW/hr most places. Using a for profit charger it would be more than that though.

 

[HitchHiker71]

As I've stated, I think it reasonable to make a judgement about what should or should not be covered by the maintenance fee. I think there is a list of what would be considered core to the resort which would vary with the resort, a beach resort would have a different list than an Urban resort. There are some gray areas though and would be lots of varied opinions. I'd consider carts, front desk (usually 24 hrs), maintenance, housekeeping (once per week or stay if less than a week), basic room amenities (shampoo, dishes, etc, etc); we could have quite a list. I guess a gym OR gym option should be included though only a small % would use it. I personally do not feel wine socials or bingo as basic amenities but YMMV and there are other considerations like the % of guests participating. For most resorts, esp larger ones, I personally consider providing EV chargers as core in 2024 and I'm OK with charges or to be included with fees (and I was and said so before even looking at EV's) but I'm also OK with having them for cost as long as the costs are reasonable. They would not be reasonable if they farm them out to a company though IMO.

I think Eric's guesstimate of cost for charge for a week is high for the actual cost of electricity. I could charge my Tesla from zero to 100% for less than that cost of electricity which should run less than 20¢ KW/hr most places. Using a for profit charger it would be more than that though.

The primary reason that public EV chargers don't work is not actually due to the commercial electrical components that provide the AC charging wearing out, it's due to the human interaction components breaking, such as the screens, card readers, payment gateways, etc. This is the primary reason that the Tesla Supercharger network is so much more reliable than other EV charger networks (though it's also because of Tesla's inherent simplicity of design for the commercial electrical components as well). When you pull up to a Tesla public charger - it's plug and play - zero human interaction - at least for Tesla owners. This is also why most L2 public chargers, destination chargers especially, are free - to bypass the need to constantly maintain the human interaction components that are prone to abuse and failure (ask any gas station owner - they will tell you the same thing - the maintenance of the electronics for payment is one of the highest expenses for gas stations since they require constant maintenance and repair). Studies have shown that it's actually more expensive to maintain and repair destination chargers that require the human interaction components on a frequent basis than it is to simply pay for the discounted electricity and allow free use. Destination chargers - as opposed to public L2 chargers - aren't used often enough to make the cost/benefit ratio work for a commercial business trying to actually make money on EV charging. That leaves the resorts with two choices. One, install chargers that allow EV owners to use them but that require the human interaction components that require constant maintenance and repair - and deliver a miserable customer experience because they are often broken and don't work - or two, install free L2 chargers and simply pay the additional electricity expense - which typically costs less than option one. With this fact in mind, I'd rather the MFs deliver the most reliable and least expensive EV charging option - which today at least - is to provide free L2 chargers for the few who make use of them. I suspect this will change as EV adoption becomes more prevalent, but this is where this issue stands at least over the past few years.

 

[simpsontruckdriver]

I don’t love the fact that any of the resorts have “free” charging; that just means that all of us are paying the electricity costs for a few people to charge their cars.

Along the same (not good) analogy, you pay hundreds per month for health insurance, men are paying for their annual exams, but they're also paying for women's annual exams PLUS women-specific exams. Men are paying for their sicknesses, but they're also paying for other people's sicknesses and pregnancies. Same with auto/home insurance (Property & Casualty), you are paying for other people's claims.

TS

 

[dioxide45]

Along the same (not good) analogy, you pay hundreds per month for health insurance, men are paying for their annual exams, but they're also paying for women's annual exams PLUS women-specific exams. Men are paying for their sicknesses, but they're also paying for other people's sicknesses and pregnancies. Same with auto/home insurance (Property & Casualty), you are paying for other people's claims.

TS

A better analogy is taxes.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

he charger that uses $10
or $20 worth of electricity

More like $6 - $7 to completely charge a dead battery based on average battery size and average cost of electricity. It seems pretty nominal, and if it becomes more widespread that just means more owners are using it. Gas is far more expensive.

You don't get charged for the electricity you use in your rooms either, and I'm confident some owners use far more electricity than others do. Is plugging in your car that much different than coming with a million devices you need to charge and turning the AC thermostat down to 66? I think it's fine either way.

 

[Carlsbadguy]

Lots of free chargers at Desert Springs VIllas. Only saw at most 2 plugged in at any time, including my car.

 

[bazzap]

At Club Son Antem in Mallorca, there are now a total of 10 charging stations, each station equipped with two chargers.
The locations include at least one charging station per street.
There are more at the golf and spa and at the hotel.
They all require payment, although the MVC ones are at a reduced price.

 

[Dean]

the MVC ones are at a reduced price.

This may be the best option in many situations although I suspect just putting up a few level 2 chargers and not worrying about payment will be more cost effective in the long run. Fortunately with the US moving to NACS for most everything, that should help with durability. Resorts don't need high speed chargers. A couple of 80 amp 2 cable Tesla chargers will be little cost up front and ongoing with reasonable planning. Most everyone traveling in the US will have/need an adapter(s) anyway if not natively NACS.

 

[Superchief]

I have the same opinion about chargers as I do about activities. As an owner, I don't have a problem with the fixed costs for providing the chargers and basic activity. However, I believe guests should be billed at costs for the electricity used and for most activities. This will help keep the MF's more reasonable and people pay for what they use.

 

[vail]

As someone said--what about people that keep the AC at 65 all day when they are out of the unit?
Or use a lot of water taking baths everyday?
Or they cook a lot and run the dishwasher twice a day?

Or They use multiple computers, laptops and cell phones and charge them all frequently?

To start putting meters on everything would cost more than what would be gained.

The same with the EV charging stations.
It is much cheaper to not have a metering system.

The reason Marriott timeshare units are not as luxurious as they used to be, is because everyone bitches about the maintenance costs.

So Marriott and BOD try to keep costs down and you get what you get.

 

[daviator]

You

As someone said--what about people that keep the AC at 65 all day when they are out of the unit?
Or use a lot of water taking baths everyday?
Or they cook a lot and run the dishwasher twice a day?

Or They use multiple computers, laptops and cell phones and charge them all frequently?

To start putting meters on everything would cost more than what would be gained.

The same with the EV charging stations.
It is much cheaper to not have a metering system.

The reason Marriott timeshare units are not as luxurious as they used to be, is because everyone bitches about the maintenance costs.

So Marriott and BOD try to keep costs down and you get what you get.

You could charge every device you own, and the resulting electricity use would not get you around the block in your EV. Apples and oranges in terms of cost.

There should be a metering system for EVs, and the cost of operating said system should be built into the price charged for use, so that EV drivers pay for their own fuel, just like everybody else.

 

[vail]

You

You could charge every device you own, and the resulting electricity use would not get you around the block in your EV. Apples and oranges in terms of cost.

There should be a metering system for EVs, and the cost of operating said system should be built into the price charged for use, so that EV drivers pay for their own fuel, just like everybody else.

what about running the ac at 65 even when you are out, versus someone that leaves the windows opened?

The cost of metering the system increases the initial cost and continues as it has to be monitored and billed.
I get it.
You are cheap and do not like paying a nickel for someone else's use.
But electric vehicles are the future.
It must be dealt with as cost effectively as possible.

 

[frank808]

So, using this analogy, 'all' of us are paying for the electricity to dry the laundry of those who use the facilities. What's to stop people from bringing their dirty clothes to their timeshare to wash/dry on every other owner's dime?

I am guilty. I do all my laundry at Marriott Ko Olina. Also, I use the refrigerator, stove, microwave and AC when I am staying at MKO and every Marriott TS I goto.



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[ljmiii]

I am guilty. I do all my laundry at Marriott Ko Olina. Also, I use the refrigerator, stove, microwave and AC when I am staying at MKO and every Marriott TS I goto.

As am I. And I'm very happy to not have energy use metered at MVCs no matter how matter how much I bemoan the trend toward 'meat locker' AC temps at the resorts.

 

[Dean]

I am guilty. I do all my laundry at Marriott Ko Olina. Also, I use the refrigerator, stove, microwave and AC when I am staying at MKO and every Marriott TS I goto.



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We all have different usage. I think the point vail was making was that there are other ways to use electricity and some of them use far more than could possibly be used by an EV. The stove, fridge and AC use quite a bit but some never touch the stove. Maybe a better comparison would be the BBQ grills, which we love at MVC and many resorts.

As am I. And I'm very happy to not have energy use metered at MVCs no matter how matter how much I bemoan the trend toward 'meat locker' AC temps at the resorts.

My experience has been the opposite. That some resorts have thermostats that don't go as low as I would like them to at night and the motion sensors that are common usually work poorly.

 

[OutAndAbout]

If you've seen chargers or used them at any Orlando resorts, would you be kind enough to fill me in, please?

I don't know current status but my understanding is the only two MVC resorts with chargers are Lakeshore and CH. World Center has several but I don't believe any are specifically at the MVC resorts and I'm not sure how close they are to the various resorts on property. The MVC chargers are all J1772, World Center has some of both but mostly NACS. I'd call and confirm either way.

..back on topic..

Agree with Dean, only aware of MVC chargers in the Orlando area at Lakeshore Reserve (4-6) and Cypress Harbour (2?)

I am surprised that Grande Vista has not added chargers as it's supposed to be the 2nd nicest Orlando MVC property after Lakeshore.

 

[Dean]

..back on topic..

Agree with Dean, only aware of MVC chargers in the Orlando area at Lakeshore Reserve (4-6) and Cypress Harbour (2?)

I am surprised that Grande Vista has not added chargers as it's supposed to be the 2nd nicest Orlando MVC property after Lakeshore.

And it's a very large resort.

 

[dioxide45]

..back on topic..

Agree with Dean, only aware of MVC chargers in the Orlando area at Lakeshore Reserve (4-6) and Cypress Harbour (2?)

I am surprised that Grande Vista has not added chargers as it's supposed to be the 2nd nicest Orlando MVC property after Lakeshore.

Grande Vista used to have two EV chargers over by the gate that goes into West Village. They removed them, but I thought they added new ones in the parking lots of all the buildings. I know I saw them being installed when we were there a few years ago.

 

[Mlvnsmly]

Just for the record, I don't believe any of the MVC EV Chargers in Orlando are free.

 

[Dean]

Just for the record, I don't believe any of the MVC EV Chargers in Orlando are free.

Lakeshore is Shell Recharge and the price is 15¢ kW hr, extremely reasonable and cheap enough such that it'd make me think they're just trying to cover the costs. At CH they are EVO charge and 32¢ kW hr. Still reasonable and cheaper than many (but not all) Tesla superchargers. Pretty sure all the ones at Orlando World Center are all free. both Vistana & Vistana Villages have free chargers.

 

[pspercy]

Ko Olina (Oahu) has EV charging, at least in the parking for the Nai'a building, no idea about any fees etc
Saw it a couple of weeks ago

 

[frank808]

Ko Olina has 2 chargers in each building. There is no charge for their use.

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[Mlvnsmly]

Lakeshore is Shell Recharge and the price is 15¢ kW hr, extremely reasonable and cheap enough such that it'd make me think they're just trying to cover the costs. At CH they are EVO charge and 32¢ kW hr. Still reasonable and cheaper than many (but not all) Tesla superchargers. Pretty sure all the ones at Orlando World Center are all free. both Vistana & Vistana Villages have free chargers.

My point was for the purposes of the discussion of having to pay for others ev charger usage at MVC resorts in Orlando, which wouldn't include Vistana resorts. Also, I have never seen any chargers at any of the World Center's MVC resorts. If your referring to the hotel, that wouldn't really be relevant to MVC, plus you'd have to pay $32 per day to park, which wouldn't be worth it.

 

[Dean]

My point was for the purposes of the discussion of having to pay for others ev charger usage at MVC resorts in Orlando, which wouldn't include Vistana resorts. Also, I have never seen any chargers at any of the World Center's MVC resorts. If your referring to the hotel, that wouldn't really be relevant to MVC, plus you'd have to pay $32 per day to park, which wouldn't be worth it.

We've discussed the point of whether it's reasonable to include charging in the fees quite a bit and I can see both sides of it. I do believe that resorts that provide parking should also provide charging options unless very small and that in doing so, should not farm it out so guests can be taken advantage of. Personally I see it as reasonable to charge enough to cover the costs as long as there isn't a major drain to a third party and I think it also reasonable to be included in the global costs in maintenance fees. I also feel like they should enforce parking access. Then comes the practical side of such decisions. Is it worth fooling with something that is paid or does it add such a significant cost that it isn't worth it. Someone pointed out earlier that is would not be worth trying to charge for this reason and just put in reasonably priced level 2 durable and simple chargers and I suspect that is absolutely true but don't know for certain. Lastly, as also has been discussed, there are other costs that not everyone takes uses but is included in maintenance fees. IMO it is more reasonable to cover globally than some of those but I realize opinions will vary greatly in this area. I do think that the costs (chargers, electricity and maintenance) will be so negligible as to not make it worth arguing about costs at this point and by the time it's a significant line item, there will be enough usage to make sheer volume enough that it's basically a requirement. YMMV