MVC MFs vs HGVC

[ljmiii]

EDITED: I had forgotten that Grand Chateau was sold as weeks...and originally posted the MF cost in Abound Points.

In the 'No more Tidys at MVC' thread @Hindsite asked for an analysis comparing MVC MF's to other timeshares. HGVC is the most direct competitor, so here goes...(all MFs are 2025 2BRs)

Orlando
HGVC Tuscany $1,569.03
MVC Grande Vista $1,956.88

Marco Island
HGVC Eagles Nest $1,588.05
MVC Crystal Shores $2,545.00

HHI
HGVC Ocean Oak 2BR $1,551.03
MVC Surfwatch 2BR $2,291.88 (based on 2024 2BR MFs w/3BR's 4.43% increase)

Myrtle Beach
HGVC Anderson Ocean Club $1,483.97
MVC Oceanwatch $1,903.36

Las Vegas
HGVC Elara $1,331.68
MVC Grand Chateau $1,576.23 (much better than ~3,675 pts/wk = $2,994.39)

Maui
HGVC Maui $3,520.97 (under construction)
MVC MOC Napili $4,380.88 (includes replacement reserves)

(A weird one since it is likely that only the finished villas at HGVC are paying for the shared facilities and at MOC we don't really know what the post-replacement MFs will be)

And then here are a couple of 'points only' MVC locations which involve some handwaving over the 'average' cost over the year (and using the 2025 $0.81480/pt Abound Point MFs). As MVC owners have known for quite some time, Abound Points are a *very* expensive currency.

Miami Beach
HGVC McAlpin $2,350.13
MVC South Beach ~6,275 pts/wk = $5,112.87

Waikoloa
HGVC Waikoloa Bay Club 2BR - $2,088.11
MVC Waikoloa - ~5,675 pts/wk Pool View = $4,623.99

 

[pedro47]

How often does HGVC updated their resorts ?

 

[Hindsite]

Thanks for the info, I actually asked for the analysis that showed that MVC was the highest MF timeshare in the US, in the context of MVC no longer offering midweek cleaning at US resorts.

I consistently exchange my US MVC ownership into higher MF locations, and don't care for midweek cleaning so don't consider that to be value added. As long as I'm getting a great vacation to a resort with facilities I want, that would cost me more than my maint fees, and my home ownerships look like they are increasing MF by defensible amounts, I'm happy that I'm doing well.

My comparators are the maint fees of where I exchange into. Where I'm booking or $$ its a like for like unit size at a resort with the facilities I want, in a location where there isn't a timeshare anywhere close and I can only get 4-5 nights for the cost of my MFs.

I just can't get on the MF outrage train when I am managing to do as well as I do, and others do better than I due to lock-off etc. If that changes, then I've had a great time for +20 years and I'll give it all away or default if I can't find an adopter.

 

[daviator]

Marriott's main source of income from properties they manage is the percentage of total revenues they take. When the MFs go up, they make more money. And they control nearly all of the property owners associations and there is essentially no watchdog overseeing them. So I fully believe that they have boosted MFs as high as they think they can get away with as a way of boosting their own revenue. This would seem to be evidence of that… not proof, certainly, but pretty strong circumstantial evidence.

There is an inherent conflict of interest at most properties. For many years, MVC was responsible and kept MFs in line with other competitors and inflation, but starting roughly a decade ago that seemed to change. The question might be where all the extra money is going. Some of it obviously goes to increased management fees. But are maintenance and upkeep and services to guests at our properties really 30-40% better than at other properties?

I am not a conspiracy theorist and I do think there are hard costs that have increased faster than inflation alone would indicate. Things like insurance and staffing costs have increased significantly. But HGVC seems to have weathered all those changes with far less impact on their fees.

 

[Hindsite]

I am not a conspiracy theorist and I do think there are hard costs that have increased faster than inflation alone would indicate. Things like insurance and staffing costs have increased significantly. But HGVC seems to have weathered all those changes with far less impact on their fees.

MF won't get managed better by simply referencing potential conflict of interest, they get managed by hard work digging into the numbers and trading off cost/quality. You can do that as an individual owner or via your HOA members. Dig in and help make it better....

 

[daviator]

MF won't get managed better by simply referencing potential conflict of interest, they get managed by hard work digging into the numbers and trading off cost/quality. You can do that as an individual owner or via your HOA members. Dig in and help make it better....

The majority of my HOA board members are MVC employees. As such, i don’t expect that appealing to them is going to do much good. And the financials they are willing to provide to owners are so high level that you can’t really glean much useful information from them.

 

[Hindsite]

The majority of my HOA board members are MVC employees. As such, i don’t expect that appealing to them is going to do much good. And the financials they are willing to provide to owners are so high level that you can’t really glean much useful information from them.

If you don't give it a go, seriously, you forfeit your right to criticize.

 

[ljmiii]

How often does HGVC updated their resorts ?

I don't know the official hard/soft refurb schedule (if there is one) but our experience is that the HGVC resorts feel about as updated as MVC's.

Tuscany was nicer than Grande Vista...but nowhere near as nice as Lakeshore.

McAlpin and MVC South Beach are both quirky in their own way (they are conversions of old hotels) with pluses and minus to each.

Bay Club has bigger villas and Kingsland better pools than MVC Waikoloa...but we preferred Waikoloa. Partly because it actually sits on A-Bay, partly because it is inside a full service hotel complex, and partly because Lava Lava, the Kings Shops, and the Queens Marketplace are all walkable.

The Lagoon Tower in Hilton Hawaiian Village and MVC Ko Olina feel about the same inside (Lagoon was refurb'd a few years ago)...but one is on Waikiki Beach in Honolulu and the other on man made lagoons in Kapolei.

The DC MVC City Collection in the Mayflower used to have nicer furnishings than the bHC DC District in an Embassy Suites. But after MVC refurb'd their rooms in the Mayflower to match the nearby Courtyard instead of the Mayflower hotel side's refurb the District is nicer. And the District has an owners lounge (plus complementary breakfast in the Embassy Suites).

Lastly, the service and furnishings at the new Liberty Place in Charleston (a bHC property) were on par with the RCC SF...no small praise.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

IMO, Elara is nicer and swankier than GC which offers nice but standard MGC decor.

Each system has slightly better and worse properties but net they are similar in terms of quality and upkeep. The bHCs for HGVC tend to have nicest finishes, more on par with Ritz. MFs tend to be on average higher for bHC properties but not like the highest MVCs.

Some of the HVC (former Diamond properties) need work. But some of the properties like Embarc and Cabo Azul are very nice. Some sit on very nice real estate namely Kaanapali Beach Club on Maui and Point at Poipu on Kauai. HGV is trying to bring them up the HGVC standard but it is slow.

 

[dioxide45]

Marriott's main source of income from properties they manage is the percentage of total revenues they take. When the MFs go up, they make more money. And they control nearly all of the property owners associations and there is essentially no watchdog overseeing them. So I fully believe that they have boosted MFs as high as they think they can get away with as a way of boosting their own revenue. This would seem to be evidence of that… not proof, certainly, but pretty strong circumstantial evidence.

I think HGVC uses the same business model. They receive a management fee for the resorts they manage.

 

[dioxide45]

Miami Beach
HGVC McAlpin $2,350.13
MVC South Beach ~6,275 pts/wk = $5,112.87

Waikoloa
HGVC Waikoloa Bay Club 2BR - $2,088.11
MVC Waikoloa - ~5,675 pts/wk Pool View = $4,623.99

I don't think these are very good examples. Since MVC didn't sell weeks at these resorts, we really don't know what the underlying costs of the inventory is at SouthBeach and Waikoloa. I am sure it is nowhere near the numbers you are providing which are based on the points MFs which are mainly driven up by low season/quality inventory from many other resorts.

 

[daviator]

I think HGVC uses the same business model. They receive a management fee for the resorts they manage.

Yes, i think most timeshare companies use that model, but not all have (seemingly) decided to jack the fees up to the maximum the market will bear. Most companies try to contain the fees.

i suspect the MVC has figured out that buyers don’t really pay attention to the maintenance fees when buying, and once they’ve bought, they’re trapped and can’t easily get out. Also because they aren’t really selling weeks any more, the fee increases don’t impact their sales too much, it mainly impacts legacy owners. And MFs for points are averaged across the whole portfolio but will not be insulated from big hikes forever.

 

[ljmiii]

I don't think these are very good examples. Since MVC didn't sell weeks at these resorts, we really don't know what the underlying costs of the inventory is at SouthBeach and Waikoloa. I am sure it is nowhere near the numbers you are providing which are based on the points MFs which are mainly driven up by low season/quality inventory from many other resorts.

While I agree from one perspective (what does it cost to own a week) I disagree in another (what does it cost an owner to visit for a week).

If you own MVC and want to visit South Beach, Waikoloa, or Vegas using your ownership the numbers are quoted *are* the price you will be paying if you are using Trust Points. My average enrolled point costs are somewhat lower...but even at a 1/3rd discount I found the numbers to be eye opening.

Miami Beach - HGVC McAlpin $2,350.13 vs MVC South Beach ~6,275 pts/wk = $5,112.87 (* 2/3 = $3,374.49)
Waikoloa - HGVC Waikoloa Bay Club $2,088.11 vs MVC Waikoloa - ~5,675 pts/wk Pool View = $4,623.99 (* 2/3 = $3,051.83)
Las Vegas - HGVC Elara $1,331.68 vs MVC Grand Chateau ~3,675 pts/wk = $2,994.39 (* 2/3 = $1,976.30)

 

[vacationtime1]

I don't think these are very good examples. Since MVC didn't sell weeks at these resorts, we really don't know what the underlying costs of the inventory is at SouthBeach and Waikoloa. I am sure it is nowhere near the numbers you are providing which are based on the points MFs which are mainly driven up by low season/quality inventory from many other resorts.

I think these are very good examples.

By selling points instead of weeks, Marriott has succeeded in obfuscating the cost structure and charging more in the process.

 

[Dean]

In the 'No more Tidys at MVC' thread @Hindsite asked for an analysis comparing MVC MF's to other timeshares. HGVC is the most direct competitor, so here goes...(all MFs are 2025 2BRs)

Orlando
HGVC Tuscany $1,569.03
MVC Grande Vista $1,956.88

Marco Island
HGVC Eagles Nest $1,588.05
MVC Crystal Shores $2,545.00

HHI
HGVC Ocean Oak 2BR $1,551.03
MVC Surfwatch 2BR $2,291.88 (based on 2024 2BR MFs w/3BR's 4.43% increase)

Myrtle Beach
HGVC Anderson Ocean Club $1,483.97
MVC Oceanwatch $1,903.36

Maui
HGVC Maui $3,520.97 (under construction)
MVC MOC Napili $4,380.88 (includes replacement reserves)

(A weird one since it is likely that only the finished villas at HGVC are paying for the shared facilities and at MOC we don't really know what the post-replacement MFs will be)

And then here are a few 'points only' MVC locations which involve some handwaving over the 'average' cost over the year (and using the 2025 $0.81480/pt Abound Point MFs). As MVC owners have known for quite some time, Abound Points are a *very* expensive currency.

Miami Beach
HGVC McAlpin $2,350.13
MVC South Beach ~6,275 pts/wk = $5,112.87

Waikoloa
HGVC Waikoloa Bay Club 2BR - $2,088.11
MVC Waikoloa - ~5,675 pts/wk Pool View = $4,623.99

Las Vegas
HGVC Elara $1,331.68
MVC Grand Chateau ~3,675 pts/wk = $2,994.39

I'll admit to know having a lot of knowledge about the intricacies of HGVC, are there additional charges that might apply that would change the numbers?

 

[dioxide45]

I'll admit to know having a lot of knowledge about the intricacies of HGVC, are there additional charges that might apply that would change the numbers?

Yes, slightly. There are fees to bank your points forward, transaction fees when you make a club reservation vs just your home week. So the original post is somewhat misleading on the total spread of the difference. Though these additional fees don't fill the spread.

Hilton Grand Vacations 2024 Fee Schedule - A Timeshare Broker, Inc.

Learn how to minimize the fees that come with owning an HGV timeshare. Get a full description of what each fee is & how to reduce your costs.

www.atimeshare.com

 

[VacationForever]

I'll admit to know having a lot of knowledge about the intricacies of HGVC, are there additional charges that might apply that would change the numbers?

HGVC charges you alot of fees when making reservations, banking etc. This is on top of the club dues.

 

[Dean]

Yes, slightly. There are fees to bank your points forward, transaction fees when you make a club reservation vs just your home week. So the original post is somewhat misleading on the total spread of the difference. Though these additional fees don't fill the spread.

Hilton Grand Vacations 2024 Fee Schedule - A Timeshare Broker, Inc.

Learn how to minimize the fees that come with owning an HGV timeshare. Get a full description of what each fee is & how to reduce your costs.

www.atimeshare.com

Thanks Jeremy. I had a good feel for Wyndham and Bluegreen but not HGVC though I suspect I'll get more acquainted with HGVC since they now manage BG as well.

 

[dioxide45]

Maui
HGVC Maui $3,520.97 (under construction)
MVC MOC Napili $4,380.88 (includes replacement reserves)

Doesn't MOC include some large assessment this year for the current electrical work they are doing?

 

[VacationForever]

In the 'No more Tidys at MVC' thread @Hindsite asked for an analysis comparing MVC MF's to other timeshares. HGVC is the most direct competitor, so here goes...(all MFs are 2025 2BRs)

Las Vegas
HGVC Elara $1,331.68
MVC Grand Chateau ~3,675 pts/wk = $2,994.39

What size and season is Elara? I have seen redweek listings of Elara with $1,331.68 for studios/1BR. Grand Chateau has to be a for a 3BR with the points and MF.

 

[ljmiii]

What size and season is Elara? I have seen redweek listings of Elara with $1,331.68 for studios/1BR. Grand Chateau has to be a for a 3BR with the points and MF.

2BR...Season doesn't matter for MFs in HGVC. There are also Elara deeds that aren't HGVC...but I don't know much about them.
And all the HGVC MF info is pulled from http://hgvcmfs.com/

And no, 3,675 points at the Grand Chateau gets you a 2BR. For a 3BR the 'average' week costs 5,225 points (or $4257.33 at $0.81480/pt).

 

[ljmiii]

Doesn't MOC include some large assessment this year for the current electrical work they are doing?

Yes, as I wrote Maui is a weird one since it is likely that only the finished villas at HGVC are paying for the shared facilities and at MOC we don't really know what the post-replacement MFs will be.

I can tell you that the 2025 AOAO Replacement Reserve is $467.65 and the 2025 Replacement Reserve is $209.67 for a 2BR in Napili. But I have zero confidence that if the Replacement Reserve components are indeed dropped from the 2026 Budget that our MFs won't see a substantial increase.

 

[ljmiii]

I'll admit to know having a lot of knowledge about the intricacies of HGVC, are there additional charges that might apply that would change the numbers?

In HGVC Home Week reservations (essentially the HGVC equivalent of using your enrolled week as a week) are free. That's most of our reservations.

Club reservations (essentially the HGVC equivalent of using your enrolled week as Abound Points) cost $69 each...though this fee is reduced or waived depending on your HGVC ownership or HGVC Max status or if you are a bHC owner who paid All Inclusive annual dues.

Borrowing is free while saving (banking) is charged a sliding scale depending on when in the year you do it - from $119 Jan-Aug up to $239 in Dec. This fee is also reduced or waived depending on your HGVC ownership. Note that unlike MVC you *can* save your 2024 HGVC points on 12/31/24.

Guest Certificates are free for Home Week Reservations...and Home Week Reservations are the only ones that can be rented out. Guest Certificates for Club Reservations are $69 though this fee can also be waived depending on your ownership status. But to reiterate (and unlike MVC Abound Points reservations), owners can't accept compensation for Club Reservations (kind of like II trades).

There can be a charge for converting HGVC and bHC points to HHonors points...but the rules (and fees) for doing so vary wildly based on your resort, your unit within a resort (e.g. is it a Penthouse deed), and your ownership status.

Generally speaking, there is a fee for depositing points into RCI but not for booking a RCI reservation using HGVC points. And as above, this fee can be waived based on ownership status.

Lastly, HGVC allows you to cancel or modify reservations 61 days in advance. If you cancel 31-60 days in advance your points are returned but you lose your reservation fee (if any). But HGVC also allows you to buy Cancellation Insurance for $99 that allows you to cancel up until the day before your check-in date and have the points returned. Again, you do lose your reservation fee (if any).

 

[CalGalTraveler]

HGVC charges you alot of fees when making reservations, banking etc. This is on top of the club dues.

If you are Elite or own in bHC (e.g. NYC. DC deeds) in HGVC you don't pay these fees. We don't pay reservation fees and get discounts on last minute Open Season reservations. If you are in the new MAX program, you don't pay these fees.

What we pay for MVC/Vistana in MF and Club dues far outstrips the $100 or so charge when we bank points. Borrowing is free so we do that most years.

RCI fees are on par with II fees. But we own HGVC deeds that have access to HGVC DEX exchange which is free to deposit and there is an exchange fee similar to II. .

 

[VacationForever]

2BR...Season doesn't matter for MFs in HGVC. There are also Elara deeds that aren't HGVC...but I don't know much about them.
And all the HGVC MF info is pulled from http://hgvcmfs.com/

And no, 3,675 points at the Grand Chateau gets you a 2BR. For a 3BR the 'average' week costs 5,225 points (or $4257.33 at $0.81480/pt).

I think we are speaking 2 different languages. I am thinking of 2BR Grand Chateau deeded week. MF is $1,576.23. It is a fairer comparison.

• Marriott Grand Chateau, 2 Bedroom EY Platinum
• Operating Fee: $1096.48
• Replacement Reserve: $405.76
• Property Taxes: $73.99
• TOTAL: $1,576.23
• 4.18% increase over 2024