MULTIZ321 Please Stop Posting News

[Patri]

I just clicked ignore to see what would happen. About half the posts on the main page disappeared.

 

[Ken555]

Some of the sites which require subscription offers x free views per month before it is blocked. I simply clear my cookies and I get access again.

So you are knowingly stealing content (ie their product). And you’re comfortable with this? Just because others do it doesn’t make it right.


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[VacationForever]

So you are knowingly stealing content (ie their product). And you’re comfortable with this? Just because others do it doesn’t make it right.


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I am totally comfortable with this because there is so much free content out there and for most parts, I clear cookies out of convenience as opposed to looking for alternative sites that post the same contents for free. I can still get the same information elsewhere if I spend another minute or so to look for it.

 

[Timeshare Von]

I'm just getting to this post/thread after not really getting to TUG this past week or so. Which actually bears out the challenge of "so many" news type posts and shares of links/headlines. It creates a lot of stuff, that has to be scrolled through . . . sometimes pages . . . to get to content of interest.

That said, I do get that I and other can ignore or just scroll on through and yes, there is an article or two, I do find interesting. So I just gut through them and ignore the ones of little or no interest.

I guess I just need to get to TUG more often than on the weekends! LOL

 

[geoand]

The number of posts don’t bother me. I would like to hear a valid reason to stop the posts. Goodness, Gracious, it really can’t be that it takes a few seconds to scroll through the lounge to avoid the posts

 

[Ken555]

I am totally comfortable with this because there is so much free content out there and for most parts, I clear cookies out of convenience as opposed to looking for alternative sites that post the same contents for free. I can still get the same information elsewhere if I spend another minute or so to look for it.

Then I would suggest you should obtain the info from a free source. By knowingly circumventing access to a paid site by resetting access, which is intended for trial use, you are stealing. There’s really no other way to look at this.

I pay for access since I want these companies to stay in business. I also value their unique content, which cannot be found elsewhere, such as opinion pieces.


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[bnoble]

I guess I just need to get to TUG more often than on the weekends! LOL

When I fall behind (which is often) I focus only on the handful of forums that are likely to have things that are most likely to have things of interest to my timeshare life, and just mark the rest "read".

 

[dioxide45]

I just clicked ignore to see what would happen. About half the posts on the main page disappeared.

This was my observation a while back. I don't think it is the post so much, but perhaps the volume. Yesterday when reading this thread I did count the threads on the first page of the TUG forum and 8 of the 25 were started by Richard. In the past I noticed more than half were his threads. I know I can ignore and in the past I did have the TUG Forum on ignore so all these posts didn't show up in the New Posts section. I have turned that off since. I don't necessarily want to ignore them all since some I do find interesting.

Another issue is that posting of news stories isn't limited to just Richard. It seems to have spawned others to post similar types of threads. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I just think at some time it becomes a little much. I don't really want to use the ignore function because you never know, they may start talking about me someday and I would want to know.

 

[Luanne]

I would much rather have too many posts started by people than not enough. There are too many message boards that have died out due to lack of posting.

 

[bbodb1]

I just clicked ignore to see what would happen. About half the posts on the main page disappeared.

@Patri - that is true - Richard probably is responsible for starting more threads in the Lounge than the rest of us combined!

 

[bbodb1]

Then I would suggest you should obtain the info from a free source. By knowingly circumventing access to a paid site by resetting access, which is intended for trial use, you are stealing. There’s really no other way to look at this.

I pay for access since I want these companies to stay in business. I also value their unique content, which cannot be found elsewhere, such as opinion pieces.


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@Ken555 - please understand I am asking this from the perspective of a conversation but your point does suggest the following - shouldn't I expect a company to pay me to access their website IF that same company is going to harvest data on myself and my browsing habits and sell that data without obtaining my consent in a clear and concise manner?

As it exists now, to access a newspaper behind a pay wall means money out of the consumer's pocket, and the browsing habits of the customer are also sold with no control on the part of the customer and no benefit passed on to the consumer.

 

[Ken555]

@Ken555 - please understand I am asking this from the perspective of a conversation but your point does suggest the following - shouldn't I expect a company to pay me to access their website IF that same company is going to harvest data on myself and my browsing habits and sell that data without obtaining my consent in a clear and concise manner?

As it exists now, to access a newspaper behind a pay wall means money out of the consumer's pocket, and the browsing habits of the customer are also sold with no control on the part of the customer and no benefit passed on to the consumer.

No. I think it’s a mistake to conflate these very different issues.

We used to provide standardized tests to prospective hires in order to get an objective report on their possible fit with our company. The firm we used had various tests and we choose two or three with their advice. They tested competence in various areas, and also included questions on morals and ethics. One of the questions was along the lines of... “if you took a pencil home from the office, do you consider this stealing?” The answer is obvious, yet many people do not consider this to be a problem. The same can be said of those who knowingly steal a product in whatever form. We discuss this on TUG regularly in the VSN forum in regards to renting timeshare weeks which are explicitly not permitted yet it’s obvious many do so (we just had another of these threads last week).


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[WVBaker]

Then I would suggest you should obtain the info from a free source. By knowingly circumventing access to a paid site by resetting access, which is intended for trial use, you are stealing. There’s really no other way to look at this.

I pay for access since I want these companies to stay in business. I also value their unique content, which cannot be found elsewhere, such as opinion pieces.


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"Stealing", is such a harsh word.

Are you really "stealing" when you bypass a paywall? Some of course will agree with that term however, there are others that simply wish to read an article without having an internet publication obtaining information about them that they simply weren't comfortable with giving up. This is information that they didn't always agree to give up however, it was taken without their knowledge.

Should we also refer to that as, "stealing"?

These publications over a period of time, will build on customer data using fields within the site by way of a single click response. This of course allows publishers to grow their reader revenues while keeping their advertising revenues intact and provides data for future advertising clients.

Information any publication or website can obtain on their paying audience’s consumption of their content provides valuable insight into who is likely to subscribe and what content will most engage these customers and keep them customers.

By paying to give them your personal information they now know, who their customers are. By clicking on any article, they now know what you're reading. If you wish to offer an opinion they know who you are and what you're saying. Should you make a purchase, not only does the advertiser know who you are, the publication knows who you are. Valuable information given to attract new advertisers.

By way of a paywall, the publication or website, obtains certain information about you as a subscriber each and every time you log in. Common practice these days by way of the internet. However, with a paywall of course, you are paying this publication or website, to do so.

As we all know, the internet is complex world of individuals and corporations gathering information on your every move. Do we give expressed permission for that to happen, no. We do however understand it's going to happen and accept it. If you wish to not only give up that information, but pay some publication to take it from you, that's your prerogative and you're free to do so. There are those however, who refuse to pay some publication to take it from them.

 

[Ken555]

"Stealing", is such a harsh word.

Yes, it is. It’s also accurate. Taking a product from a company without paying is theft. I don’t know why some people think this is a grey area...it’s not.


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[dioxide45]

Should we also refer to that as, "stealing"?

Another question about stealing. If you go in to a store to ask them questions about a product and "showroom" that product even though you 100% intend to go home and then buy it on Amazon, is that stealing?

 

[WVBaker]

I am totally comfortable with this because there is so much free content out there and for most parts, I clear cookies out of convenience as opposed to looking for alternative sites that post the same contents for free. I can still get the same information elsewhere if I spend another minute or so to look for it.

I understand your point and no, I wouldn't label you a thief.

 

[Panina]

Another question about stealing. If you go in to a store to ask them questions about a product and "showroom" that product even though you 100% intend to go home and then buy it on Amazon, is that stealing?

No, it is shopping around. Your visit to the store might be a place you buy from as they might meet or beat Amazons price if you ask.

An online publication that requires you to pay to have access to their publications is clear with their intent, we charge for you to read. Getting it any other way is in my opinion is not right and is a form of stealing.

 

[Sea Six]

I recall he took some heat a while back for just posting links without giving us any idea what the subject was. At least now he post info about the link so we can decide if we want to go there or not.

 

[Patri]

Are you really "stealing" when you bypass a paywall? Some of course will agree with that term however, there are others that simply wish to read an article without having an internet publication obtaining information about them that they simply weren't comfortable with giving up.

Trust me, people are not bypassing paywalls for that reason. They just don't want to pay for the information. There are expenses to gathering and publishing news. If people refuse to pay for the reporters and photographers and editors, many of the news sources will disappear. Then whatcha gonna do?

 

[dioxide45]

No, it is shopping around. Your visit to the store might be a place you buy from as they might meet or beat Amazons price if you ask.

There is a difference between shopping around and showrooming. So if Amazon's price is say $10 cheaper and they won't match it, is it still not stealing? Is their expertise and storefront worth the $10. I am talking about going in to a mom and pop brick and mortar. You already know Amazon is going to be cheaper and you are just going in to find out which model may be the best to buy since you can't touch anything on Amazon with the 100% intention of going back and ordering online.

 

[dioxide45]

I am not going to delete cookies to get around paywalls. I also don't bother with incognito mode. If they don't want me reading their articles and clicking on their site, I will find it from another source that is free. If there isn't one, it really wasn't that important anyway. Same with ad blockers. There are only a few sites where I have turned off ad blocker. For a few I will turn it off long enough to read the article and then turn it back on when I am done.

 

[Panina]

There is a difference between shopping around and showrooming. So if Amazon's price is say $10 cheaper and they won't match it, is it still not stealing? Is their expertise and storefront worth the $10. I am talking about going in to a mom and pop brick and mortar. You already know Amazon is going to be cheaper and you are just going in to find out which model may be the best to buy since you can't touch anything on Amazon with the 100% intention of going back and ordering online.

No, not stealing. That is part of business. A good sales person should be able to weed out the real buyers. I was in sales for years.

A online publication site that charges is not pay me if you want, it is we charge.

 

[Ken555]

There is a difference between shopping around and showrooming. So if Amazon's price is say $10 cheaper and they won't match it, is it still not stealing? Is their expertise and storefront worth the $10. I am talking about going in to a mom and pop brick and mortar. You already know Amazon is going to be cheaper and you are just going in to find out which model may be the best to buy since you can't touch anything on Amazon with the 100% intention of going back and ordering online.

No, that is not stealing. A customer in a store is an opportunity for the store... if they can’t close the sale for whatever reason it’s their fault. They have to create one or more reasons for customers to purchase, and typically price is just one reason.

And as posted earlier, not everything at Amazon is cheaper.


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[Brett]

Trust me, people are not bypassing paywalls for that reason. They just don't want to pay for the information. There are expenses to gathering and publishing news. If people refuse to pay for the reporters and photographers and editors, many of the news sources will disappear. Then whatcha gonna do?

yes, the news paywall. Investigative reporting has already disappeared from local newspapers. People are getting their news from facebook, 24/7 cable channels, youtube, websites, etc. The sources of news hasn't disappeared, they just get influenced by 'news' websites and cable shows.
I think it's different from shopping at a store and then ordering the same product online from Amazon at a lower price

 

[SmithOp]

I get my news from the 6 o’clock news hour on TV. Local news then Lester, then I catch BBC World News on PBS.


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