More Walgreens in San Francisco Closing due to Retail Theft

[joestein]

Again, that's just theoretical. In my life, wherever I've lived, that has never been the case. I have never seen tax rates go down as assessed value rises. The tax rate stays the same as the assessed value rises, and the government takes in and spends the added revenue.

That's not a huge issue when RE values rise at the same rate as inflation. That actually produces an effectively constant revenue source. The issue arises when RE prices increase faster than inflation.

They can still overspend and just borrow.

 

[joestein]

Sorry, I have a hard time buying that more government taxing for public services is capitalistic. Maybe capitalistic for the government administrators who are lining their pockets and receiving lifetime retirement and health.

FWIW....young engineers and biotech in Silicon Valley and SF do not have the least of all. It is not uncommon to see young couples making $150k -$200k each ($300 - $400k) - one works at Facebook, the other works at Twitter or Google. They are the ones driving up housing prices. It is far more lucrative for the elders to cash up to a million or more out of their home and move further inland or out of state than to sit on their property tax base. Isn't a carrot (cash out) better than a stick (tax them) as incentive?

The state coffers are smiling all the way to the bank. They not only get higher property taxes based on the elevated sales price but also the capital gain above $500k on the home. I would not feel sorry at all for the state government at all. They get their pound of flesh.

I am not feeling sorry for the gov't. They should get the same revenue - regardless of what assessments are. I feel sorry for younger people who are basically paying welfare for a bunch of older people living in multi-million dollar homes.

 

[Snazzylass]

I'm not even a bit offended by those words but the level of cringe is high. May as well wear a t-shirt that says "I am a tourist". No one here calls it that. Well at least no one who has lived here for awhile. But tourists definitely use those words.

Yes. We say SoCal and NorCal. So if you say that you may be mistaken for a Californian. Say "Cali" or "Frisco" (lol it is hard to type those!) and we know that you are from somewhere else.

Or maybe it's a generational thing? My niece who was born and raised in SoCal is the first time I heard the term "Cali." The second time was here.

 

[Luanne]

Or maybe it's a generational thing? My niece who was born and raised in SoCal is the first time I heard the term "Cali." The second time was here.

My daughters are third generation Californians. Neither one of them would use Cali.

 

[Superchief]

I am not feeling sorry for the gov't. They should get the same revenue - regardless of what assessments are. I feel sorry for younger people who are basically paying welfare for a bunch of older people living in multi-million dollar homes.

The people living in these multi-million dollar homes live there because that's their home and they likely put a lot of work and money into to it. They didn't buy it as an investment. If they sell it, they won't be able to afford a home in the same area and will have to pay all of the selling/buying and moving expenses. That is a lot of money. I know several people in CA that don't move because they can't afford to.

 

[Snazzylass]

I'm not sure exactly what these indices are based on, but I assume it is a measure relative to population. The city of Cincinnati represents only about 1/3 of people living in the total metropolitan area. Most of the family communities are not in the city and a lot of people are moving to Warren and Butler counties to avoid high property taxes in Hamilton County. Most of the violent crimes are concentrated in specific areas and are related to drugs and gangs, like most other cities. These areas also have higher property crime. Car break-ins, shoplifting and burglaries aren't wide spread, and people here feel safe parking their cars and walking in most of the downtown and suburban areas.

We lived in Concord, CA in the 80's and really enjoyed our time there. We moved away due to the high cost of living, but I agree the weather is almost perfect and much better than Cincinnati. We traveled to the Bay area every few years, stay in Walnut Creek and used BART to visit SF. We noticed a big change on our last visit, with a lot more trash, needles, and homeless around the BART stations (even in Pleasant Hill) and especially in the city. Our friends still live in Walnut Creek and work in the city, but they are becoming more concerned about safety and high cost of living. San Francisco is one of the most beautiful cities in the world and we hope they start cracking down again on crime so people feel safe to visit.

Exactly!
It's a poor comparison and the post is ignorant. What's the old saying? About numbers and stats?

I know both Indy & Cincy - lived both places. Indy does have a crime problem for sure. They are aware of it and trying to address it.
However, in general SF is much more affluent. It's practically the exact opposite of those 2 Midwest cities. SF doesn't even have a cemetary. I just came from spending a week there with family who live close to the Mission District. It's not Media Hype. It's real.

 

[Ty1on]

Exactly!
It's a poor comparison and the post is ignorant. What's the old saying? About numbers and stats?

I know both Indy & Cincy - lived both places. Indy does have a crime problem for sure. They are aware of it and trying to address it.
However, in general SF is much more affluent. It's practically the exact opposite of those 2 Midwest cities. SF doesn't even have a cemetary. I just came from spending a week there with family who live close to the Mission District. It's not Media Hype. It's real.

SF has two cemeteries, though they are both old. The city outlawed burials within the city limits in 1900, and most pre-existing graves were even moved across the bay. Not sure what that has to do with anything, though.

 

[geist1223]

There are lies, damm lies, and statistics. Or something like that.

 

[joestein]

The people living in these multi-million dollar homes live there because that's their home and they likely put a lot of work and money into to it. They didn't buy it as an investment. If they sell it, they won't be able to afford a home in the same area and will have to pay all of the selling/buying and moving expenses. That is a lot of money. I know several people in CA that don't move because they can't afford to.

Maybe they can't, but it shouldn't fall on a new buyer.

Two identical homes next to each other. One paid $100K in the 80s and the other paid $1MM recently. The new homeowner is subsidizing the RE Tax of the old homeowner for $4,500. That is just not right. But it is the law.

 

[klpca]

Or maybe it's a generational thing? My niece who was born and raised in SoCal is the first time I heard the term "Cali." The second time was here.

I have definitely heard people younger than me mention the song "Going Back to Cali" by LL Cool J as the basis for calling it "Cali". He is from New York. Maybe in 20 more years it will be a common term but right here, right now it just isn't a term used by people from California. It is nails-on-a-chalkboard for everyone I know. Just one of those terms that grinds people's gears.

 

[Ty1on]

Maybe they can't, but it shouldn't fall on a new buyer.

Two identical homes next to each other. One paid $100K in the 80s and the other paid $1MM recently. The new homeowner is subsidizing the RE Tax of the old homeowner for $4,500. That is just not right. But it is the law.

It's not a 1MM house until it sells for 1MM. It's elitism to suggest that a long time resident should be forced out of his home via tax engineering.

 

[geekette]

It's not a 1MM house until it sells for 1MM. It's elitism to suggest that a long time resident should be forced out of his home via tax engineering.

Yes.

A long term resident has been paying property tax and upkeep, else the home would not have appreciated in value.

I am certainly against forcing widows from homes they've been in for 40-60 years to avoid prop tax bill they can't pay. Having a home worth a mil doesn't mean there is a bank account of similar size. People can be house rich and cash poor, especially over decades of staying put.

The American Dream was to own the home outright. Then things are supposed to get easier, without a mortgage. It's not ok to present homeowner with a bill akin to another mortgage.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Maybe they can't, but it shouldn't fall on a new buyer.

Two identical homes next to each other. One paid $100K in the 80s and the other paid $1MM recently. The new homeowner is subsidizing the RE Tax of the old homeowner for $4,500. That is just not right. But it is the law.

So what? The financial world is unequal:

• Two new homes in a development. One person negotiated x. another negotiated y. Same home layout.
• Two airplane seats on the same plane one bought for $150, the seat next to it for $500
• Two stocks. One bought during a market low, one during market high both sold at same price. Same stock but different returns for each.
• Rental units in an apartment building. Same layout different rent if one rented a long time ago vs. someone moving in.
• Venture Capital Rounds are not valued the same.
• New condo pre-build prices vs. post-build for the same unit.
• ...the list goes on and on.

It if were your mother or grandmother being pushed from the home of 40+ years where she raised her children you might feel differently. Why is it granny's fault that the prices rose? She will be paying higher capital gains in the end when it is ultimately sold. Is it fair that she pays more in capital gains tax than the young couple who paid a higher price and lower capital gains? It all nets out in the end.

 

[DrQ]

Magnificent Mile no more: Chicago is blighted by shoplifting as ANOTHER American city goes down the toilet because its left-wing AG stops prosecuting shoplifters who steal less than $1000 of goods

• Chicago's Magnificent Mile has been the target of rampant shoplifting that caused several stores to close their doors
• State's Attorney Kim Foxx mandates that Chicago prosecutors only issue felony charges for theft of property over $1,000
• Thieves know they can grab armfuls of merchandise without being stopped by store security
• The city's crime issue may only grow worse as at least 50 cops have been put on unpaid leave for refusing to get the COVID-19 vaccine
• Cities throughout the country are facing similar issues, including San Francisco, where Walgreens just announced is was closing another five stores

Chicago's Magnificent Mile is plagued by a shoplifting spree

Chicago's Magnificent Mile has been plagued by a string of robberies and a wave of crime in the past few months, as some say that the city's 'soft-on-crime' policies embolden the thieves.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[x3 skier]

So what? The financial world is unequal:

• Two new homes in a development. One person negotiated x. another negotiated y. Same home layout.
• Two airplane seats on the same plane one bought for $150, the seat next to it for $500
• Two stocks. One bought during a market low, one during market high both sold at same price. Same stock but different returns for each.
• Rental units in an apartment building. Same layout different rent if one rented a long time ago vs. someone moving in.
• Venture Capital Rounds are not valued the same.
• New condo pre-build prices vs. post-build for the same unit.
• ...the list goes on and on.

It if were your mother or grandmother being pushed from the home of 40+ years where she raised her children you might feel differently. Why is it granny's fault that the prices rose? She will be paying higher capital gains in the end when it is ultimately sold. Is it fair that she pays more in capital gains tax than the young couple who paid a higher price and lower capital gains? It all nets out in the end.

Other than possible rent control on your apartment example, all of the other are the result of the free market, while the disparity in taxes is the result of political activity. Just an observation that the tax could be changed by political action while the others would need direct interference in a free market.

Cheers.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Ok true, but taxes are not equal either. 15% bracket, 24% 36% corps rates. Corps that pay $0. Deductions that count and dont count. Soc. Security deductions up to a $ cap but none if you make over that amount.

Same salary but one is tax smart and takes writeoffs; the other doesn't so pays more tax.

Same stock purchased one sells at 364 days and pays 36% for ST gain. The other investor holds same stock, sells at 366 days and only pays 20% LT gain. Only 2 days earlier fair to pay 16% more?

Two earner couples contribute 2x to Social Security but dont get 2x benefits...

 

[am1]

So what? The financial world is unequal:

• Two new homes in a development. One person negotiated x. another negotiated y. Same home layout.
• Two airplane seats on the same plane one bought for $150, the seat next to it for $500
• Two stocks. One bought during a market low, one during market high both sold at same price. Same stock but different returns for each.
• Rental units in an apartment building. Same layout different rent if one rented a long time ago vs. someone moving in.
• Venture Capital Rounds are not valued the same.
• New condo pre-build prices vs. post-build for the same unit.
• ...the list goes on and on.

It if were your mother or grandmother being pushed from the home of 40+ years where she raised her children you might feel differently. Why is it granny's fault that the prices rose? She will be paying higher capital gains in the end when it is ultimately sold. Is it fair that she pays more in capital gains tax than the young couple who paid a higher price and lower capital gains? It all nets out in the end.

Have the kids foot the tax bill, reverse mortgage or sell. By her staying it is using up more limited resources then her selling and a younger family moving in to enjoy the house just as she and her family did. No need to subsidize that.

 

[klpca]

.

Ok true, but taxes are not equal either. 15% bracket, 24% 36% corps rates. Corps that pay $0. Deductions that count and dont count. Soc. Security deductions up to a $ cap but none if you make over that amount.

Same salary but one is tax smart and takes writeoffs; the other doesn't so pays more tax.

Same stock purchased one sells at 364 days and pays 36% for ST gain. The other investor holds same stock, sells at 366 days and only pays 20% LT gain. Only 2 days earlier fair to pay 16% more?

Two earner couples contribute 2x to Social Security but dont get 2x benefits...

Well if folks are upset about granny staying in her home wait until they find out about stepped up basis.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Have the kids foot the tax bill, reverse mortgage or sell. By her staying it is using up more limited resources then her selling and a younger family moving in to enjoy the house just as she and her family did. No need to subsidize that.

Wow. That's draconian thinking. What about personal freedom? and the contributions and sacrifices that she made?

Do you support some members of the younger generation that can't wait for granny to kick the bucket so they get the inheritance? Based on your argument, it sounds like you believe granny is inefficient sitting on her lifelong savings so should die or give away her savings to younger families to use whether they deserve it or not.

And what if the senior allows the younger family to live with them in that home? or uses the money to pay for their grandchildren's care & education?

 

[TravelTime]

Not for similarly sized cities. The average includes suburbs and rural. Apples and Oranges.

Wouldn’t the data on these charts be indexed so that the rate is per capita to take into acount that the cities are different sizes? Otherwise it is useless data and I would not be quoting it.

 

[TravelTime]

Family, I would say 100K just off the cuff.

HUD defined “Low Income Limits” in San Francisco as $82,200 for an individual and $117,400 for a family of four in 2018

 

[Ty1on]

HUD defined “Low Income Limits” in San Francisco as $82,200 for an individual and $117,400 for a family of four in 2018

San francisco for sure. But the rest of the state drags that number down dramatically.

 

[TravelTime]

So what? The financial world is unequal:

• Two new homes in a development. One person negotiated x. another negotiated y. Same home layout.
• Two airplane seats on the same plane one bought for $150, the seat next to it for $500
• Two stocks. One bought during a market low, one during market high both sold at same price. Same stock but different returns for each.
• Rental units in an apartment building. Same layout different rent if one rented a long time ago vs. someone moving in.
• Venture Capital Rounds are not valued the same.
• New condo pre-build prices vs. post-build for the same unit.
• ...the list goes on and on.

It if were your mother or grandmother being pushed from the home of 40+ years where she raised her children you might feel differently. Why is it granny's fault that the prices rose? She will be paying higher capital gains in the end when it is ultimately sold. Is it fair that she pays more in capital gains tax than the young couple who paid a higher price and lower capital gains? It all nets out in the end.

I like paying much lower property taxes than my home is worth. It is one of the few tax “advantages” we get. I can also see Joel’s point as to how unfair it is.

The examples above are how the capitalistic market works (except #4 is not accurate unless you have rent control and #5 there is a reason why venture capital rounds are not valued the same). Taxes are supposed to be “fair.” That is why we have progressive taxes. Real estate taxes are very unfair. And making this debate into one about seniors misses the point, IMO.

 

[Ty1on]

I like paying much lower property taxes than my home is worth. It is one of the few tax “advantages” we get. I can also see Joel’s point as to how unfair it is.

The examples above are how the capitalistic market works (except #4 is not accurate unless you have rent control and #5 there is a reason why venture capital rounds are not valued the same). Taxes are supposed to be “fair.” That is why we have progressive taxes. Real estate taxes are very unfair. And making this debate into one about seniors misses the point, IMO.

Its fixed incomes that are victimized by property tax creep, so i dont think debating with the experience of seniors misses the point at all.....

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Wouldn’t the data on these charts be indexed so that the rate is per capita to take into acount that the cities are different sizes? Otherwise it is useless data and I would not be quoting it.

You are correct that the figures are per capita, however the total includes the per capita of suburbs and rural which are much lower per capita and thus bring down the average.