Moderators: change required in the description of the HGVC and Diamond/HVC forums

[cd5]

I'm not sure who can do this however I just noticed that Embarc/Club Intrawest is still in the description for the Diamond forum. Should now be in the HGVC Forum.
See the attached screenshot.

Chantal

 

[HuskerATL]

Actually, I am not sure that it should since it isn't available to HGVC or HC. It is rebranded to HGVC in name only but only available to Max so aligns more to HVC/DRI.

 

[TUGBrian]

ive removed it from both as it seems embarc (and intrawest) monikers are going away to be merged with HGVC unless im mistaken?

a bigger issue is that all the existing embarc/intrawest threads are in the DRI/HVC forum! seems like it would be a bit confusing to move all of them.

 

[TUGBrian]

also likely need to figure out how to incorporate HGVMAX into one or both... at first thought it seems it would probably be best included under the main HGVC brand.

 

[cd5]

Actually, Embarc remains as a separate "collection" within HGVC and several of the locations (those at resorts not fully owned by Hilton) are keeping the Embarc name. So it remains the same type of relationship as Embarc had in Diamond but now under the Hilton umbrella instead. Time will tell if that changes but for now, due to the master declaration, nothing is really changing other than the offering of HGV Max to members.

 

[cd5]

HGV Max is offered across the 3 - Hilton, Embarc and Diamond - it's an exchange program within all Hilton resorts which requires a purchase of more points/a deed/lump sum payment plus an annual fee in order to participate. I don't think it's necessary to add it anywhere (or if added should be in both?), the questions about it would relate back to the club of origin (Diamond or Hilton or Embarc) and be asked within the appropriate sub-forum.

 

[cd5]

Actually, I am not sure that it should since it isn't available to HGVC or HC. It is rebranded to HGVC in name only but only available to Max so aligns more to HVC/DRI.

Not so. Hilton has branded it as HGVC not HVC - so it definitely should not be lumped in with the Diamond properties. Max is across all 3 entities and the relationship of Embarc in that, is the same for Diamond as it is for Hilton. The Embarc master declaration has clauses that make it virtually impossible to "dismantle" the Club's current structure and basically keeps status quo for members even if they buy into HGV Max. Had Hilton wanted to make an agreement as was existent prior to 2016 and Club Intrawest's purchase by Diamond, they could have done so. They chose to go the "Max" route to monetize the access instead. In any event, it requires reciprocal exchanges to make Embarc available to anyone outside of Embarc be it through Max, II or SFX.

 

[dioxide45]

It seems that HGVC in what appears to be a rush to be first to market with their combined program, created a sloppy program with no real cohesiveness. They could have taken a different approach and just allowed the HVC and Embarc resorts to affiliate with HGVC like the other affiliates do. Allow people to opt in (for a fee) their weeks or membership to HGVC. IMO, they created an unnecessary mess in what looks to be just a money grab to sell more timeshares. Short term gains in exchange for what doesn't allow them to assimilate programs in the long term.

 

[dayooper]

It seems that HGVC in what appears to be a rush to be first to market with their combined program, created a sloppy program with no real cohesiveness. They could have taken a different approach and just allowed the HVC and Embarc resorts to affiliate with HGVC like the other affiliates do. Allow people to opt in (for a fee) their weeks or membership to HGVC. IMO, they created an unnecessary mess in what looks to be just a money grab to sell more timeshares. Short term gains in exchange for what doesn't allow them to assimilate programs in the long term.

Yes, that's exactly what I believe happened except I believe the sloppiness was purposeful. The entire process has been done with little transparency. In the initial HGVMax policies, there was at least one huge perk (loyalty searches) to Max that were not included in later releases. Salesman still bring this up as selling point for Max, yet it's not available. In the club rules, there is an option for developer bought deeds to purchase entrance into Max for $7000 and everybody from top down says it's not available. The alphabet soup of the offerings are meant to be confusing so salesman can make sales easier. There are owners that though they were buying one side and really buying the other.

Honestly, I believe the true reason is Apollo's influence. Their goal is to make money and they are going to soak as much out of HGVC as it can and see where it goes. They pushed for the quick release of Max and since they have the largest ownership stake outside of the company itself (and 2 board members), they do wield a lot of influence over the company.

 

[GT75]

also likely need to figure out how to incorporate HGVMAX into one or both... at first thought it seems it would probably be best included under the main HGVC brand.

I think that it will need to be in both because it is actually different depending if you are HGVC or HVC. Can it be a sub-forum in each?

 

[dioxide45]

I am not sure Max really requires a separate sub forum, does it? HGVC discussions related to Max can happen in the Hilton forum and HVC/DRI related Max discussions can happen in the HVC forum. Embarc seems to be the only outlier. Perhaps it is a new subforum under the Hilton forum and existing threads can be moved to it?

 

[TUGBrian]

Actually, Embarc remains as a separate "collection" within HGVC and several of the locations (those at resorts not fully owned by Hilton) are keeping the Embarc name. So it remains the same type of relationship as Embarc had in Diamond but now under the Hilton umbrella instead. Time will tell if that changes but for now, due to the master declaration, nothing is really changing other than the offering of HGV Max to members.

I thought the eventual plan was for all embarc resorts to be rebranded? do they still sell embarc ownerships?

 

[TUGBrian]

wow so even with all the name changes, and max....embarc is still going to truly be its own individual/unique/separate system?

sweet chocolate baby jesus, who thinks this stuff up!

 

[HuskerATL]

Not so. Hilton has branded it as HGVC not HVC - so it definitely should not be lumped in with the Diamond properties. Max is across all 3 entities and the relationship of Embarc in that, is the same for Diamond as it is for Hilton. The Embarc master declaration has clauses that make it virtually impossible to "dismantle" the Club's current structure and basically keeps status quo for members even if they buy into HGV Max. Had Hilton wanted to make an agreement as was existent prior to 2016 and Club Intrawest's purchase by Diamond, they could have done so. They chose to go the "Max" route to monetize the access instead. In any event, it requires reciprocal exchanges to make Embarc available to anyone outside of Embarc be it through Max, II or SFX.

My point is that non-Max HGVC members do not have access to them. It was a name change for financial reasons, to rent out on Hilton.com, (in my opinion), not usability by HGVC members. DRI/HVC Max members have access where Legacy HGVC/HC do not.

From what I am hearing, the only requirement to use any Embrac property is access to Max so no new money. I am hearing from Max members in both sides, that they see it in their booking options but availability is very limited. For us only in HGVC, it doesn't even show up as an option in the booking windows.

 

[ABCTravels]

Regarding Max...As an HGVC owner who has Max due to a retail purchase and who is using it to stay in HVC resorts, I read both forums and find them useful and I don't mind doing so. When I have a question specific to Max, I ask it on the HGVC side because that's where I own and I imagine the same is true for an HVC owner on their forum. It gets answered by other Max owners with my deed type so the information is more accurate to my specific situation.

Regarding Embarc... I'm not able to book HGVC/Embarc Whistler even with Max and HGVC ownership. I have appreciated the information provided here on how Embarc works, so I have adjusted my expectations on ever going there with club points. It'll be an Honors trip at some point.

 

[HuskerATL]

Regarding Max...As an HGVC owner who has Max due to a retail purchase and who is using it to stay in HVC resorts, I read both forums and find them useful and I don't mind doing so. When I have a question specific to Max, I ask it on the HGVC side because that's where I own and I imagine the same is true for an HVC owner on their forum. It gets answered by other Max owners with my deed type so the information is more accurate to my specific situation.

Regarding Embarc... I'm not able to book HGVC/Embarc Whistler even with Max and HGVC ownership. I have appreciated the information provided here on how Embarc works, so I have adjusted my expectations on ever going there with club points. It'll be an Honors trip at some point.

Do you see it as an option but with no availability?

 

[ABCTravels]

No.
Canada is listed on the public website but once you log in as HGVC/Max, Canada completely disappears as a location.

 

[ABCTravels]

Where else does Embac have resorts besides Canada?

 

[HuskerATL]

Sandestin and Desert Palm are the ones that folks have talked about seeing online.

 

[ABCTravels]

I'm not seeing either of those in my account right now, but I feel like I have seen Desert Palm before and was able to look at point values. I could be wrong, but it was not the one in Palm Springs but actually Palm Desert correct?

 

[HuskerATL]

I'm not seeing either of those in my account right now, but I feel like I have seen Desert Palm before and was able to look at point values. I could be wrong, but it was not the one in Palm Springs but actually Palm Desert correct?

Correct. HGVC Palm Desert not HVC Palm Canyon. Both are in Palm Springs. I had heard from folks that they could see them but there wasn't availability. For Legacy folks, it doesn't show you at all in a browser but does show up as a resort via the app however, is you click it, it locks up the device and you have to close the app.

 

[cd5]

I thought the eventual plan was for all embarc resorts to be rebranded? do they still sell embarc ownerships?

Yes, they still sell Embarc points. Right now, they are selling them to sell HGV Max membership. The resorts in Vancouver (Sheraton Wall Centre), Ucluelet and Panorama are not wholly owned by Hilton but by other companies (Embarc has only part of these resorts) and so the name will remain Embarc.

 

[cd5]

My point is that non-Max HGVC members do not have access to them. It was a name change for financial reasons, to rent out on Hilton.com, (in my opinion), not usability by HGVC members. DRI/HVC Max members have access where Legacy HGVC/HC do not.

From what I am hearing, the only requirement to use any Embrac property is access to Max so no new money. I am hearing from Max members in both sides, that they see it in their booking options but availability is very limited. For us only in HGVC, it doesn't even show up as an option in the booking windows.

They only launched Max at Embarc 2 weeks ago - so no Embarc units would yet have been exchanged into Max. That's why you don't see any. Diamond members don't see availability either.

 

[cd5]

Where else does Embac have resorts besides Canada?

There are 9 resorts: Ucluelet, Vancouver, Whistler, Panorama, Blue Mountain, Mont Tremblant, Sandestin, Palm Desert, Zihuatanejo

 

[cd5]

Correct. HGVC Palm Desert not HVC Palm Canyon. Both are in Palm Springs. I had heard from folks that they could see them but there wasn't availability. For Legacy folks, it doesn't show you at all in a browser but does show up as a resort via the app however, is you click it, it locks up the device and you have up close the app.

Embarc points are about 94% sold. Members can reserve 6+ days at 11 months out (from check in) and 5 or less, 6 months out (from check in). Max will allow reservations 6 months out from checkout. Embarc members can bank points for a year if they can't use them before year end, and with covid, many did. There is very little availability for Embarc members themselves this year, so no surprise it's not showing up elsewhere