[ MERGED ] Michigan family jailed in Mexico over timeshare dispute

[WorldT]

That is the key statement that most people seem to be forgetting. It doesn't matter one iota that Amex sided with the Michigan couple. Or the fact that in the US they would not be held while evidence was gathered. It doesn't matter that this would not be considered criminal fraud in other countries. Or that people don't go to jail in other countries in a dispute over debt.

It's Mexico and by all accounts, they are following Mexican laws. Foreigners can't just waltz into another country thinking the laws of that country don't apply to them because they don't live there. It just doesn't work that way. This couple found out the hard way the old saying, "you f--- around, you find out".

Kurt

Are you sure they are following Mexican laws? Have you seen Mexican laws surrounding pre-trial detention?

 

[dioxide45]

“The Palace Company subsidiary, Palace Elite, filed a criminal complaint with Mexican authorities after Paul and Christy Akeo fraudulently disputed legitimate credit card charges and publicly encouraged others to do the same.”

Jailed for alleged dispute?! Why didn’t they go after AMEX if it’s so “legitimate”?

It’s way wrong and I’m sure it will be settled just like the man being hauled off a United flight. But no I’m not going there…

We don't really know what transpired with the Amex chargeback. Amex isn't the law and they are only operating on US regulations regarding credit card charges. Palace resorts really doesn't have a claim against Amex. Amex was simply the form of payment. They can apparently file charges to collect via another form of payment.

There are, perhaps, millions of fraudulently disputed credit card transactions every year in the US. Chargeback and return fraud costs US companies over a hundred billion dollars a year.

 

[dioxide45]

Are you sure they are following Mexican laws? Have you seen Mexican laws surrounding pre-trial detention?

I don't know the answer, but that seems to be up to the court in Mexico to decide based on their understanding of their laws.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

It appears that Mexico does not imprison people over debt. This overreach puts a big chill on the Palace TS reputation.

Why isn't Palace petitioning the court to get them freed immediately? This speaks volumes about this company.

Debt recovery in Mexico

Imprisonment for civil or commercial debts is prohibited in Mexico. The creditor's only chance for recovery is upon the debtor's assets. Since no one…

www.lexology.com

 

[dioxide45]

It appears that Mexico does not imprison people over debt.

Debt recovery in Mexico

Imprisonment for civil or commercial debts is prohibited in Mexico. The creditor's only chance for recovery is upon the debtor's assets. Since no one…

www.lexology.com

But it doesn't seem to be debt, the claim here is fraud. People can go to prison for monetary fraud.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

But it doesn't seem to be debt, the claim here is fraud. People can go to prison for monetary fraud.

The lawyers can spin it. This is a debt dispute over a contract and payment. The buyers apparently followed the contract language - pushed it to the limit but that does not constitute fraud to Palace.

It is entirely possible that the Palace sales rep told them they could pay for their contract by doing what they did. I do not believe the couple went to Mexico with intent to attend a timeshare presentation and defraud Palace.

I do not think the buyers are capable of making this approach up. We've seen this happen many times in TS sales presentations at hotel branded timeshares in the USA where they say you can rent out your weeks to pay for your timeshare only to find out later they are locked out of the system (Megarenters). Megarenters should not be in jail and neither should this couple.

If there is fraud, Palace did not fulfill their contract obligations and sales representations.

Because Palace wrote a bad contract and did not put limits on the number of referrals and renting out bonus weeks does not make it fraud for the buyer. Either way no one should be jailed over this.

 

[easyrider]

If you put it that way... no, I don't need the cash perk, but my time has value, so I am sometimes willing to trade it for some cash. Is that greed?

By definition I think yes.

Bill

Greed
: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (such as money) than is needed

 

[easyrider]

Either way no one should be jailed over this.

I agree but I'm sure there is a reason, right or wrong, that they could be jailed in Mexico or they wouldn't be in jail.

Bill

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I agree but I'm sure there is a reason, right or wrong, that they could be jailed in Mexico or they wouldn't be in jail.

Bill

I think customs found them on the list and retained them as a matter of operations. However they should have been released immediately once they determined this was a civil contract dispute.

If there is something else that they did then it is not revealed in this story. However the story says "6 months to allow Palace to gather evidence." Really? You can put someone on an Interpol list and not have evidence to support this? Something is fishy about this story. So perhaps there is something else beyond the Timeshare dispute.

 

[PigsDad]

Are you sure they are following Mexican laws? Have you seen Mexican laws surrounding pre-trial detention?

Where have you seen that they are not following Mexican laws?

Kurt

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

It is one thing to be locked up for drunk driving or writing bad checks....however not paying a contact you signed and with intent to defraud - being in our own criminal system (police man)...well, they are guilty . For exactly what, the court will decide. Not our country...not our ball and bat. I think the amount of money involved is also an issue, as it would be here in the USA. We left a Timeshare here in states, paid the company more than $3,000 to close our account. We DID NOT just bail on them with no reason.......Time for all to think about WHAT YOU SIGN and are responsible for.

This would never be charged in any state in the US. I was a prosecutor for 12 years. This is a civil contract dispute. The idea that a prosecuting agency is somehow going to prove that they had an intent to defraud when they signed the contract and made all those payments for years, only performing a chargeback after there was a dispute over the terms of the contract many months or years later, would never fly here. No police agency or prosecuting agency in this country would ever run with that.

This is definitely a "beware of Mexican timeshare companies" cautionary tale.

 

[PigsDad]

By definition I think yes.

Then by your definition, having a job where you exchange your time for money is considered "greed". Hmmm...

Kurt

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I agree but I'm sure there is a reason, right or wrong, that they could be jailed in Mexico or they wouldn't be in jail.

Bill

If only the world actually operated in that manner.

 

[PigsDad]

This would never be charged in any state in the US. I was a prosecutor for 12 years. This is a civil contract dispute. The idea that a prosecuting agency is somehow going to prove that they had an intent to defraud when they signed the contract and made all those payments for years, only performing a chargeback after there was a dispute over the terms of the contract many months or years later, would never fly here. No police agency or prosecuting agency in this country would ever run with that.

No one is saying they would have been jailed if the same situation happened here in the US.

This is definitely a "beware of Mexican timeshare companies" cautionary tale.

I think it is more of a "be aware that US laws don't apply when you are in a foreign country" cautionary tale.

Kurt

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I think it is more of a "be aware that US laws don't apply when you are in a foreign country" cautionary tale.

Kurt

Given the amount of press this is getting, this can and should significantly damage the Mexican timeshare industry in general. Say what you want about scammy American timeshare companies, but I can't imagine even a company like Westgate ever trying to do something like this. It is incredibly short-sighted.

Also, I don't agree that this is a "US laws don't apply in a foreign country" cautionary tale. I'm relatively confident that the same facts applied to someone who owns a timeshare in Canada, or Europe, or Australia, or most other first-world nations does not ever end up with the timeshare owner sitting in a maximum security jail cell. This is definitely a "beware timeshares in Mexico" specifically story.

 

[PigsDad]

Given the amount of press this is getting, this can and should significantly damage the Mexican timeshare industry in general. Say what you want about scammy American timeshare companies, but I can't imagine even a company like Westgate ever trying to do something like this. It is incredibly short-sighted.

It would be interesting to attend a presentation at a Palace and see what they would say if you brought up this situation. I agree they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Also, I don't agree that this is a "US laws don't apply in a foreign country" cautionary tale. I'm relatively confident that the same facts applied to someone who owns a timeshare in Canada, or Europe, or Australia, or most other first-world nations does not ever end up with the timeshare owner sitting in a maximum security jail cell. This is definitely a "beware timeshares in Mexico" specifically story.

You seem to be stuck on the "timeshare" side of this. That's fine. But this is not just a "timeshare" issue; it is a fraud issue. It just so happened that the company involved is a timeshare company. It's still a cautionary tale to not expect US laws to be applied in foreign countries.

Kurt

 

[WaikikiFirst]

would be interesting to attend a presentation at a Palace and see what they would say

as in "May you live in interesting times"? I think I'd rather try to visit during a hurricane and see how "interesting" that gets

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Indeed. Palace is cutting of their nose to spite their face. And all over $100k and some excess inventory (free) that the buyer wants to rent out so they can pay Palace for the $100k debt? This is probably a rounding error for them.

If Palace is making such a big deal over $100k then there must be much more wrong with this company.

 

[gln60]

It would be interesting to attend a presentation at a Palace and see what they would say if you brought up this situation. I agree they are shooting themselves in the foot.


You seem to be stuck on the "timeshare" side of this. That's fine. But this is not just a "timeshare" issue; it is a fraud issue. It just so happened that the company involved is a timeshare company. It's still a cautionary tale to not expect US laws to be applied in foreign countries.

Kurt

100% correct

 

[Travel_Mo]

Here is the latest.

American couple held in Mexican prison over timeshare dispute

A Michigan couple have been held in a maximum-security prison in Mexico because of a timeshare billing dispute.

6abc.com

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

You seem to be stuck on the "timeshare" side of this. That's fine. But this is not just a "timeshare" issue; it is a fraud issue. It just so happened that the company involved is a timeshare company. It's still a cautionary tale to not expect US laws to be applied in foreign countries.

Perhaps, but I could change “timeshare” to any other service that someone signs a contract for, makes a bunch of payments for, ends up having a dispute over, and then does a chargeback for, and that ending with that person sitting in a jail cell for fraud is ridiculous.

 

[cheech]

 

[iftravel]

It’s not just about laws or Mexico laws it’s about abuse of laws or no laws at all. Think it this way, this poor couple can also reasonably believe that Palace Resorts committed crime and fraudulently charged him 100k for selling something not worth what is said or promised. It can only be fair for Mexico police to lock up the CEO and the salesman involved in prison for 6 months to “collect evidence”.

 

[LannyPC]

View attachment 108317

Were the Akeos notified that there was a warrant out for their arrest in Mexico? If so, why would they want to return to Mexico? That would seem foolish.

 

[easyrider]

Then by your definition, having a job where you exchange your time for money is considered "greed". Hmmm...

Kurt

Sometimes, sometimes not, lol. You're intelligent enough to know the difference.

Bill

greed​

noun​

ˈgrēd

Synonyms of greed
: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something (such as money) than is needed