Mega Owners at Club Wyndham Harbortown Point Default on Maintenance Fees

[stevenh21]

I received a letter from the president for the HOA that two owners of a total of 416 weeks did not pay their maintenance fees this year. The resort is located on the harbor in Ventura Ca. and is listed on Wyndham's website. The total owed is listed at approximately $367,800, which affects the 2025 budget and monies available. It will also affect the 2026 budget in how much other owners will have to pay in increased maintenance fees and how much will come from reserves.
We have owned there since 2002 and traded into the resort a few times before that. I knew Wyndham had a presence there by owning some units, but they do not manage the resort. After receiving the letter, my thoughts were that ownership of so many units might be be related to business ownership rather than two individuals.
I looked on the Wyndham app and no units were available at Harbortown Point through November of 2026. If Wyndham was an owner and didn't pay the maintenance fees, they would lose the use of the units. This is mostly conjecture, but it seems some entity is trying to be a disruptor of Harbortown Point. Much like how several Wyndham resorts are being closed at the end of the year.
Maybe someone can provide more information about how many units Wyndham owned at the resort.

 

[stevenh21]

I do see Harbortown Point is on the list of Legacy Fairfield resorts.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Hi @stevenh21
The Harbortown Point Website mentions a total of 57 units.
57 x 52 =2964 weeks


So 14 % of the resorts MF income is currently unpaid / in default .

 

[dioxide45]

If this amount of weeks were somehow controlled by Wyndham, I would think it would have to be CWA but this property isn't listed as a CWA resort on the Club Wyndham website.

 

[Floridaman76]

I've never heard of this resort or stayed there. It is on the Club Wyndham resort list, and you can attempt to book there, but there seems to be zero availability going out as far as I can look.

ZERO

I don't think Wyndham themselves would just stop paying MF, one would think the HOA could sue them and this would be an easy win. But who knows. Maybe they want to be defaulted on.

 

[jp10558]

Too bad it's all 1BR/Studios. But it does look interesting, if unbookable apparently. I searched it and it looks like Wyndham has some units, but there are at least one type Wyndham doesn't have that are shown in the https://www.harbortown.com/rooms-1 floorplans. Seems like it's got another manager as well?

 

[Roger830]

Not only does the mf have to be increased in the future to cover the deficit, but it's likely that the lost revenue for this year has to be made up.

I see no reason why a large owner can't default like it's common for small owners. Capital returned hundreds of weeks to Ft Lauderdale Beach Resort after they changed management.

 

[dioxide45]

I see no reason why a large owner can't default like it's common for small owners. Capital returned hundreds of weeks to Ft Lauderdale Beach Resort after they changed management.

Yeah, the process of default or conveyance is the same regardless of how many units someone owns. The impact on other owners is just much larger for other owners when an owner with this many weeks defaults.

Does the property have a rental or resale program. They need to move to first try to collect the maintenance fees and if that fails then they need to foreclose so they can take action to monetize the inventory by renting it or reselling it. Perhaps the resort should lookin into services of a company like Lemonjuice Capital Solutions.

 

[stevenh21]

Hi @stevenh21
The Harbortown Point Website mentions a total of 57 units.
57 x 52 =2964 weeks


So 14 % of the resorts MF income is currently unpaid / in default .

Thanks, my math comes out to 2964 weeks divided by 416 unpaid weeks, 7.13 %.

 

[bizaro86]

Thanks, my math comes out to 2964 weeks divided by 416 unpaid weeks, 7.13 %.

Your math is backwards.

416 / 2964 = 0.14 or 14%

That's also ~1/7, which is why you got ~7 when you did it.

 

[Jan M.]

Originally it was indicated that two California resorts were on the list to be dropped. That was dropped from our list as no other information about them being dropped was forthcoming.

As mentioned, Harbortown Point isn't a Wyndham managed resort. I checked our non Wyndham RCI account and Harbor Point is in the Directory but has no availability, even in Extra Vacations. Since this isn't a resort I would normally be searching for I don't know if no RCI availability is typical or not. I suspect not. It's also not listed as a Wyndham or Worldmark resort, just Harbortown Point.

Doing the math, 416 units divided by 52 would be 8 units. My first guess would be that the HOA is being discreet in not naming Wyndham and the two owners are Wyndham and Wyndham as CWA. However @dioxide45 said Harbortown Point isn't shown as a CWA resort. Although they could own all 52 weeks in 8 units, it could also be that they own x number of weeks in units x, y, and z. So the other defaulter could be an individual with 1 or 2 weeks.

@T-Dot-Traveller posted that the resort website says they have 57 units. That means Wyndham doesn't control enough votes to be able to take the same path they're taking with the other resorts being dropped.

Again, my guess is that Wyndham's approach with this resort is to default on the maintenance fees and let the resort foreclose. Ironic that some people who post on TUG and some in the Facebook groups are very outspoken about how unethical defaulting is whenever someone is advised to just stop paying and let the HOA foreclose when the person wants or truly needs out and Wyndham Cares is no help nor will Certified Exit take it back.

What's good for the goose.... An individual's financial decision to default is no different from this business/financial move Wyndham is making. It would make sense that Wyndham would want to keep what I/we think they're doing with Harbortown Point on the downlow as much as possible. They wouldn't want owners thinking if Wyndham can default then we can too. From what I've seen people, who I think know what they're talking about say, defaulting on a timeshare doesn't hurt a person's credit to the extent that some people fearmonger it does.

So is there is a second California resort that Wyndham is doing this with too?

 

[stevenh21]

Yeah, the process of default or conveyance is the same regardless of how many units someone owns. The impact on other owners is just much larger for other owners when an owner with this many weeks defaults.

Does the property have a rental or resale program. They need to move to first try to collect the maintenance fees and if that fails then they need to foreclose so they can take action to monetize the inventory by renting it or reselling it. Perhaps the resort should lookin into services of a company like Lemonjuice Capital Solutions.

The resort does have a fairly active resale program, targeting owners, family and friends. They also allow owners to pay fees on an extra unit week for use or to trade in RCI or Interval.

 

[stevenh21]

Your math is backwards.

416 / 2964 = 0.14 or 14%

That's also ~1/7, which is why you got ~7 when you did it.

You're right, sorry.

 

[Floridaman76]

Could this be another 11th hour surprise? A-la Pagosa?

This Wyndham Purge is the gift that keeps on giving.

The poor sales weasel that gets assigned to me Friday has no idea what's coming

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

As an aside to the main focus of the thread :

@stevenh21 ,@bizaro86 etc.- when I need to do math like this I sometimes revert to pen & paper (ie) the math I learned in 6th grade .
[ This was 59 years ago / in 1966 : Our Holy Redeemer, Freeport New York ]
This was peak baby boom on Long Island ; and there were about 1200 kids / grade 1-8 with 3 classes per grade & close to 50 kids per classroom.

416 = N [added : where N is an unknown percentage of 2964]
2964=100 %

then cross multiply
2964 N = 416 x 100
2964 N = 41600

then divide each side by 2964
so N = 41600 divided by 2964
N= 14.0350877

So basically 14%

 

[dioxide45]

As an aside to the main focus of the thread :

@stevenh21 ,@bizaro86 etc.- when I need to do math like this I sometimes revert to pen & paper (ie) the math I learned in 6th grade .
[ This was 59 years ago / in 1966 : Our Holy Redeemer, Freeport New York ]
This was peak baby boom on Long Island ; and there were about 1200 kids / grade 1-8 with 3 classes per grade & close to 50 kids per classroom.

416 = N
2964=100 %

then cross multiply
2964 N = 416 x 100
2964 N = 41600

then divide each side by 2964
so N = 41600 divided by 2964
N= 14.0350877

So basically 14%

I just do it one way and if the number looks wierd, I do the math the other way.

2964 divided 416 = 7.125

I know that I have to multiply the number by 100 to get to a percentage. The result certainly can't be 712%. So then just switch it to get the correct result of 416 divided by 2964 = .1403. Then multiply by 100. It's doing the same thing as you did but moving the multiplication by 100 to the end.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

my math comes out to 2964 weeks

my math says 416 / 52 = 8.00000000

 

[dioxide45]

my math says 416 / 52 = 8.00000000

They are referring to the total number of unit weeks at the property. Not just the ones owned by those in default

 

[dioxide45]

I received a letter from the president for the HOA that two owners of a total of 416 weeks did not pay their maintenance fees this year.

When they say "this year", do they mean for 2025? If so, it would seem to indicate that Wyndham had this planned as far back as 2024 when the fees were originally levied.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

416 = N
2964 ... So basically 14%

4 about 1/7th of 29 ...16 is 1/4th of 64 ... 1/7th = 14% so ...
so many shortcuts they were not allowed to teach in grammar school

 

[jp10558]

Originally it was indicated that two California resorts were on the list to be dropped. That was dropped from our list as no other information about them being dropped was forthcoming.

As mentioned, Harbortown Point isn't a Wyndham managed resort. I checked our non Wyndham RCI account and Harbor Point is in the Directory but has no availability, even in Extra Vacations. Since this isn't a resort I would normally be searching for I don't know if no RCI availability is typical or not. I suspect not. It's also not listed as a Wyndham or Worldmark resort, just Harbortown Point.

Doing the math, 416 units divided by 52 would be 8 units. My first guess would be that the HOA is being discreet in not naming Wyndham and the two owners are Wyndham and Wyndham as CWA. However @dioxide45 said Harbortown Point isn't shown as a CWA resort. Although they could own all 52 weeks in 8 units, it could also be that they own x number of weeks in units x, y, and z. So the other defaulter could be an individual with 1 or 2 weeks.

@T-Dot-Traveller posted that the resort website says they have 57 units. That means Wyndham doesn't control enough votes to be able to take the same path they're taking with the other resorts being dropped.

Well, also this seems like the currently provided "reason" wouldn't apply here. No availability in RCI too means owners are staying there rather than exchanging. It's certainly not like Fairfield Glade where it was always in RCI Last Calls (I think, TBH I don't usually look at smaller than 2BR, but I do have to go in and change filters so ...) Maybe it needs a large special assessment? I guess maybe Wyndham specifically wasn't able to fill their units / intervals from Wyndham owners? Maybe the MFs are sky high?

I kinda wish I knew what ARDA and companies like Wyndham think is the actual future demand. Currently Wyndham seems to think it's sports focused college towns? Which I remain extremely skeptical of. But I can speculate that this is less desirable because it's not on a beach and it's 1BR as the biggest, and from what I read, 2BR are by far the most popular units to book, and certainly 2BR or larger are like 70% of all TS units in the US from the last ARDA report.

I think unless the location is extremely specifically of interest, with the floorplans of this resort many Embassy Suites or the like would be competitive - one bedroom, sleeping sofa, kitchen... $1,400 for a week with 0 commitment and less booking hassle.

 

[dioxide45]

Well, also this seems like the currently provided "reason" wouldn't apply here. No availability in RCI too means owners are staying there rather than exchanging.

Do we know if the non Wyndham units even trade in RCI? I see a number of getaways and exchange available in Interval International. If Wyndham didn't pay 2025 fees, then I would think they don't have access to the units and can't deposit them to RCI nor make them available through Club Wyndham.

 

[paxsarah]

Well, also this seems like the currently provided "reason" wouldn't apply here.

Agreed. Harbortown Point is known for being almost impossible to book with points (like, going back to when I first became an owner 15 years ago), and it's listed as "limited number of accommodations." I guess there are weeks owners? (Which might also account for any RCI inventory, rather than thinking that Wyndham ever deposits any units at all.)

 

[stevenh21]

Originally it was indicated that two California resorts were on the list to be dropped. That was dropped from our list as no other information about them being dropped was forthcoming.

As mentioned, Harbortown Point isn't a Wyndham managed resort. I checked our non Wyndham RCI account and Harbor Point is in the Directory but has no availability, even in Extra Vacations. Since this isn't a resort I would normally be searching for I don't know if no RCI availability is typical or not. I suspect not. It's also not listed as a Wyndham or Worldmark resort, just Harbortown Point.

Doing the math, 416 units divided by 52 would be 8 units. My first guess would be that the HOA is being discreet in not naming Wyndham and the two owners are Wyndham and Wyndham as CWA. However @dioxide45 said Harbortown Point isn't shown as a CWA resort. Although they could own all 52 weeks in 8 units, it could also be that they own x number of weeks in units x, y, and z. So the other defaulter could be an individual with 1 or 2 weeks.

@T-Dot-Traveller posted that the resort website says they have 57 units. That means Wyndham doesn't control enough votes to be able to take the same path they're taking with the other resorts being dropped.

Again, my guess is that Wyndham's approach with this resort is to default on the maintenance fees and let the resort foreclose. Ironic that some people who post on TUG and some in the Facebook groups are very outspoken about how unethical defaulting is whenever someone is advised to just stop paying and let the HOA foreclose when the person wants or truly needs out and Wyndham Cares is no help nor will Certified Exit take it back.

What's good for the goose.... An individual's financial decision to default is no different from this business/financial move Wyndham is making. It would make sense that Wyndham would want to keep what I/we think they're doing with Harbortown Point on the downlow as much as possible. They wouldn't want owners thinking if Wyndham can default then we can too. From what I've seen people, who I think know what they're talking about say, defaulting on a timeshare doesn't hurt a person's credit to the extent that some people fearmonger it does.

So is there is a second California resort that Wyndham is doing this with too?

Jan, you make some good points in your reply. The resort is still listed as a Wyndham resort in the app. It has been common to see availability in both RCI and II. The resort does have 57 units. It also has regular delinquencies, and does accept units back from owners in good standing. I do think the 416 week units was not the total for the year, thus the letter was pointing out two major, unnamed owners. Maybe owners will get more information with the November billing for 2026. Lastly, at the end of my post, I stated that it was conjecture. One entity ( entities) were acting as a disruptor. I compared this to Wyndham's actions with other resorts. It is a fact that
Wyndham owns units. What is unknown to the public, are the names of the two major entities.

 

[stevenh21]

Do we know if the non Wyndham units even trade in RCI? I see a number of getaways and exchange available in Interval International. If Wyndham didn't pay 2025 fees, then I would think they don't have access to the units and can't deposit them to RCI nor make them available through Club Wyndham.

Non Wyndham weeks trade in RCI and Interval.