Mayan Palace hard sell to upgrade.

[Gypsykim]

We returned a few weeks ago from the Mayan Palace in Riviera Maya. We love this resort and have owned since 2002. We did the presentation just to get the goodies.

They came at us with the premise that there was a problem with our contract. Said we had a "legacy" contract and it needed to be changed. Said we never responded to an offer to upgrade in 2015. We actually never received the offer. Went on to say we could upgrade at a greatly reduced rate just paying the tax and closing costs. That went from $35,000 to $20,000 in short order. We said no and then they pulled the good cop, bad cop act on us with the supervisor.

When we still said no, they threatened that we would not be able to use our Mayan Palace weeks at Riviera Maya as they were tearing them down. Not sure if they can do this as we bought at Riviera Maya.

Does anyone have any thought on this? I checked my contract when I returned and it clearly says we have the right to use Riviera Maya in addition to all other Mayan Palace resorts.

I'm guessing they want to get rid of the old contracts so they can tear down the Mayan Palace room and build something else. But, if there are still valid contracts out there they can't do that. The rooms were getting a little tired and broken.

 

[vacationtime1]

My initial thought (which I am 99% sure is correct) is that you were told a bunch of lies to attempt to get you to part with $20,000.

My follow-up thought is that if they want your Riviera Maya deed, they should be paying you. But only if you really want to sell.

 

[Gypsykim]

My initial thought (which I am 99% sure is correct) is that you were told a bunch of lies to attempt to get you to part with $20,000.

My follow-up thought is that if they want your Riviera Maya deed, they should be paying you. But only if you really want to sell.

Yes, I agree, they should pay us. We have a 25 year renewal contract and will not be renewing when it comes due.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

9 more years and you're out of it!



.

 

[Eric B]

My understanding from discussions with Vidanta sales in a few recent "owners updates" is that the company is trying to phase out the Mayan Palace brand. They do have a fairly great desire to phase out the older contracts as well; the new contracts have more restrictions on transfer and higher MFs. Vidanta makes most of its money through sales, so you're just a small part of their income stream after all. Periodically these older contracts show up on eBay and sell or are given away on TUG - you might want to go that route sometime in the next 9 years and pass the contract on to someone that would continue to benefit from it. If it didn't have some value to the "owner" as opposed to the developer, they wouldn't be wanting to get rid of the legacy contracts that are out there.

I don't think they will ever pay you to get rid of the contract, though they do have a problem with the existence of these old ones that continue as registered weeks for 100 years if they are renewed. The problem is that the guarantee for availability in the Mayan Palace or equivalent only applies to the registered weeks; the contracts they are using currently have registered weeks for 10 years plus additional weeks that are not registered weeks that renew every 10 years for up to 100 years. They can only sell up to a certain number of registered weeks, I believe. I don't think that the existence of these legacy contracts would prevent them from tearing down the Mayan Palace buildings in Riviera Maya because they could provide you accommodations at the Bliss, Grand Mayan or higher level parts of the resort there instead. They just don't want the old legacy contracts around that would result in them having to provide those accommodations at the lower rates through 2102 with the limitations on raising the MFs that are in the contracts. Eventually they may wind up making you a decent offer to change the contract to a higher level one without cost to you; I wouldn't do anything unless it were free to me and even then I would think twice about just keeping or selling/giving away the contract.

There are a lot of post about the Vidanta resorts, which include Mayan Palace, The Bliss, Grand Mayan, Grand Bliss, and Grand Luxxe in the Mexico Timesharing forum. Vidanta has partnered with Cirque de Soleil to start building a entertainment park in Nuevo Vallarta that will be convenient to the Mayan Palace there (it's down to just one building on the resort now, but still there presumably because of the existing contracts for it). Might be worth posting further on this contract in that forum.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

Yes, I agree, they should pay us. We have a 25 year renewal contract and will not be renewing when it comes due.

Hi Gypsykim & welcome to TUG as a poster ,
Eric covered this very well.

The short version is : they are lying** - because they want your registered week .(IMO)


FYI - I have met at least one owner of a Vidafel Puerto Vallarta Sea Garden ( torn down about 2002) that stays at the PV - Mayan Palace every year .

You have a “Right to Use “contract - and the registered week enforces that right .
also : IF you chose to renew in 9 years - your week renews AS A REGISTERED WEEK .

I assume you paid in 2017 - the 5 year reno fee / 2nd MF . When it comes due again in 2022 ; perhaps , do not expect a bill . They would prefer you forget to pay it and void the contract so that they get your registered week back . (IMO)
{ added - in checking my records - in 2016 I did receive a 5 year reno billing from
Vidanta / we will see in 2021}

FYI - I believe (all /added - revise to many ) Mayan Palace contracts are registered in RM . My 2006 contract is / we bought in Puerto Vallarta Marina . When we did a 2016 update ( same hard sell to upgrade ) - I questioned that and was told that many Mayan Pallace contracts were RM registered .(likely true)

I believe : - for years , Grupo Mayan - Vidanta has been using the registered weeks of the unopened RM Mayan Palace buildings as “ inventory “ to sell against . Now that they are converting these into Jungle Luxxe - they need to find / regain “registered weeks . The 25 year contract owners are getting a “ great deal / hard sell “ - (and the - “won’t have a MP unit for you. “)

The Celebrate Park contracts being sold in NV - according to TUG posts - only have (1) registered week in the 10 years / renew for 100 details . So (IMO) - if they had convinced you to upgrade - they can sell 10 new contracts .

FYI - while the “ international sales “ - tells gringos - upgrade - we are tearing down Mayan Palace .
I am not sure what the pitch is to the Mexican National market / that has a different sales team in NV.
In 2010 - we were told - “ of course we sell Sea Garden to Mexican Nationals / we have just phased it out - for gringo sales “

** added - perhaps my using - “lying “- was an oversimplification.
After rereading your post - perhaps the concept is - “implying things , to cause you to impulsively act , in a way that works against YOUR long term best interests”

Yes - there is a problem with “legacy” Vidanta contracts . The problem is theirs .
Vidanta could make more money if they did not exist .
It is the same problem Wyndham has with fixed week. Jan - March owners at their
Pompano Beach Florida properties . (The folks we were happy to sell in the past / keep us from making more money - now )

 

[Gypsykim]

My understanding from discussions with Vidanta sales in a few recent "owners updates" is that the company is trying to phase out the Mayan Palace brand. They do have a fairly great desire to phase out the older contracts as well; the new contracts have more restrictions on transfer and higher MFs. Vidanta makes most of its money through sales, so you're just a small part of their income stream after all. Periodically these older contracts show up on eBay and sell or are given away on TUG - you might want to go that route sometime in the next 9 years and pass the contract on to someone that would continue to benefit from it. If it didn't have some value to the "owner" as opposed to the developer, they wouldn't be wanting to get rid of the legacy contracts that are out there.

I don't think they will ever pay you to get rid of the contract, though they do have a problem with the existence of these old ones that continue as registered weeks for 100 years if they are renewed. The problem is that the guarantee for availability in the Mayan Palace or equivalent only applies to the registered weeks; the contracts they are using currently have registered weeks for 10 years plus additional weeks that are not registered weeks that renew every 10 years for up to 100 years. They can only sell up to a certain number of registered weeks, I believe. I don't think that the existence of these legacy contracts would prevent them from tearing down the Mayan Palace buildings in Riviera Maya because they could provide you accommodations at the Bliss, Grand Mayan or higher level parts of the resort there instead. They just don't want the old legacy contracts around that would result in them having to provide those accommodations at the lower rates through 2102 with the limitations on raising the MFs that are in the contracts. Eventually they may wind up making you a decent offer to change the contract to a higher level one without cost to you; I wouldn't do anything unless it were free to me and even then I would think twice about just keeping or selling/giving away the contract.

There are a lot of post about the Vidanta resorts, which include Mayan Palace, The Bliss, Grand Mayan, Grand Bliss, and Grand Luxxe in the Mexico Timesharing forum. Vidanta has partnered with Cirque de Soleil to start building a entertainment park in Nuevo Vallarta that will be convenient to the Mayan Palace there (it's down to just one building on the resort now, but still there presumably because of the existing contracts for it). Might be worth posting further on this contract in that forum.

Thank you for this info. We went to the Cirque du Soleil while there and it was great. They really talked up the "Celebrate" theme resort they are building in Puerto Vallarta. We prefer the East cost of Mexico so won't be going there. We will use or exchange our remaining weeks and then not renew, or sell it to someone.

 

[pittle]

Hang on to your contract! There are a LOT of MP contracts still out there. RM has 20+ buildings and the older units 1-10, opened in late 2001 or early 2002 and 11-21 opened in 2003/2004. They may take down buildings 1-10, but my guess is that they will leave 11- ?

I sometimes wish whe had kept our MP & GM contracts instead of upgrading - especially at RM - the MP has the best pool. (We originally bought in 1999 - before RM was on the radar.)

My guess is that they want you out of your long term lower price contract.

I posted this information a long time ago, but if you have a contract, it still applies....................

Mayan World Maintenance Fee Transfer Costs Timeline

Before August 2002, transfer fees were the cost of Maintenance fees for 1 year. The Vacation Fair week does transfer with the contract. These have the 5 year Renovation Fee equal to 1 MF also. 2-bedroom units cost about $16,000, but the MF were fairly low and still are because most had a 3% increase cap. The Equity value of the original purchase price is given to you when you upgrade.

From August 2002 - November 2005, it was 10% of the original purchase price. The Vacation Fair week does transfer with the contract. These have the 5 year Renovation Fee of 1 MF. MF for a 2-bedroom unit were higher because they started out higher with the original purchase and have the 5% increase cap.

The 5X MF started in late 2005 for both MP & GM units, just before we upgraded to two GM 2-bedroom units in April 2006. They have the no pay unless you go features and the 5 year Renovation Fee. So, if you are going to try to buy a GM week, you should look for one that is a 2004 or 2005 contract. The 10% of the original purchase price transfer fees is less expensive than the 5 MF, and you get to keep the VF week. The original purchase price for a 2-bedroom back then was about $32,000, so $3,200 is less than the $5000 in transfer fees that you would pay for a "newer" contract with no VF week. You will have to pay MF each year either way.

In late 2006, there was the Senior Certificate offer for people who owned before November 30, 2006. They had to physically appear at Customer Service and get this document. It is not transferrable. I have seen some folks on eBay try to sell these units and state that they are, but it specifically says on the Certificate that it is not. Like all Mayan contracts – what you have in writing is what they honor. Even the Senior Certs are now changing. Some people are now offered that when they are 77, the MF will be what your original one was when you upgraded or purchased the GL. Because we have an original one, our was carried over with our GL Upgrade. ½ price at 75 and free at 77 – We have to be there for this to be in effect – we cannot send our kids for free. It does not pass down to the kids.

In November 2008, they started showing the Grand Bliss and Grand Luxxe Models and I heard the salesman say that the Reno Fee was 1-1/2 MF every 5 years. We were not interested and actually went in not as an owner but from a vendor at Mega. They only talked to us about Mayan Palace and Grand Mayan units. At the beginning of the GB, GL sales, only Grand Mayan owners were offered the “opportunity” to buy.

The 10x MF started with the Grand Bliss & Grand Luxxe units in 2009 or 2010 making them pretty much impossible to sell. $10,000 for MP, $15000, for GM, $17,500 for GB, and $19,000+ for GL. These are per week and the VF type weeks do not transfer, nor does the gold, massages, etc. that is in your contract. Just the RTU that week.

From what I have read on various websites, there are lots of variances with the Grand Luxxe deals. Ours is very similar to the Grand Mayan one, but we have Registered Weeks and Residence Weeks (similar to VF). The Renewal Fee is ½ MF per week that you have (including the VF), so in my opinion, it is basically still 1 MF, but it is at the 10 year mark. If you do not pay it, your contract is cancelled. We chose to upgrade to the GL because we had 6 contracts and had a reno fee every year. Only one of our contracts did not have the no pay unless you go feature, so we only had to pay MF on that one each year for sure, but generally used a couple of weeks. Our offer to upgrade to 2 GL units was basically prepaid reno fees for the rest of all our contracts and we got bunches of Residence weeks (VF) and lots of other stuff. We kept our Sr. Cert. like it was. We plan to do one renewal and then it is up to the “kids” if they want to. Mike is 71-1/2, so we are getting closer to ½ price and then No MF. J

 

[Eric B]

Fabulous summary, Phyllis.

Sounds like a 2002 contract is a keeper, or would be very beneficial to give someone that just likes the Mayan Palaces.

 

[pianoetudes]

I don't believe they are tearing down ALL MP buildings in RM. They have like 20 buildings there. I know they convert some buildings, near the beach, to GL.

It it typical sales. They lie. But I think the presentation is less intimidating than Nuevo.

Sent from my HTC U11 life using Tapatalk

 

[tedpap]

Fabulous summary, Phyllis.

Sounds like a 2002 contract is a keeper, or would be very beneficial to give someone that just likes the Mayan Palaces.

As someone who has a 1998 MP contract and no longer physically able to use our unit, we would like to sell or give away our unit, a 1 bedroom suite. I just paid my last 5 year renewal, and have just read the contract, regarding the requirements for transfer of the RTU contract, which require one MF and Closing costs. What, in your opinions is the best way to present this to possible interested parties?

I am about to request a week and try to rent it for this coming spring, which i have done the last few years since my walking has been diminished substantially. I have 5 years left on our RTU, and can handle the MF's for that period, which increase at approx 3% per year. However if I can avoid that and let someone else use and enjoy the properties and locations available that would be a benefit for them, and less hassle for me.

Any suggestions as to a proper approach to this situation. ?

Thanks.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

As someone who has a 1998 MP contract and no longer physically able to use our unit, we would like to sell or give away our unit, a 1 bedroom suite. I just paid my last 5 year renewal, and have just read the contract, regarding the requirements for transfer of the RTU contract, which require one MF and Closing costs. What, in your opinions is the best way to present this to possible interested parties?

I am about to request a week and try to rent it for this coming spring, which i have done the last few years since my walking has been diminished substantially. I have 5 years left on our RTU, and can handle the MF's for that period, which increase at approx 3% per year. However if I can avoid that and let someone else use and enjoy the properties and locations available that would be a benefit for them, and less hassle for me.

Any suggestions as to a proper approach to this situation. ?

Thanks.

Great idea - TUG has the Marketplace Section - you could list it there giving all the details of the transfer cost etc
I would list it for at least the cost of the renewal you just paid .

FYI - I see you live in Green Bay Wisconsin .
If getting out of winter still has any appeal and you have some mobility : I would suggest booking
and going to the Sea Garden Nuevo Vallarta .

The walk from the elevator to the pool chairs is short

SG NV has one bedroom suites that are similar to Mayan Palace one bedrooms in size .
It has about 200 units between one bedrooms with partial kitchen & studio/ hotel rooms .
Decent onsite restaurant , great staff , Daily full housekeeping & towel replacement .

Vidanta Sea Garden Nuevo is down the beach from Vidanta Big Nuevo / but on its own - with a much smaller "footprint" . My wife's bad knees really appreciated
the location.

 

[Eric B]

You might try the bargain deals portion of this site; https://tugbbs.com/forums/index.php?forums/bargain-deals.55/. There’s no charge to post it there, so you’ve got nothing to lose. I’ve also seen some listed on eBay. The marketplace is another option, as Tom said, and I believe you can list a few times for no charge as a member.

 

[tedpap]

Thanks, I appreciate the suggestions. I will check the options offered. I have used the TUG market place for rental ads for weeks I have reserved then rented out. It is just getting to be a hassle and harder to rent out as the MF are getting higher, (now up to $540? for the 1 bd master suite).

Does anyone have the phone no. of the Vidanta Customer Service where I can find out the numbers involved and to get their written consent (as stated in their contract) to approve an assignment if I do find a buyer/assignee. ?

If there are any other suggestions I would love to hear them, and thanks for the replies

 

[Eric B]

It’s on their website; 800-292-9446.

 

[T-Dot-Traveller]

[QUOTE="tedpap, post: 2197185, member: 8205" It is just getting to be a hassle and harder to rent out as the MF are getting higher, (now up to $540? for the 1 bd master suite).

If there are any other suggestions I would love to hear them, and thanks for the replies[/QUOTE]

The $ 540 MF - is it for the size unit with a partial kitchen & separate bedroom from the living room
or the hotel room - 2 double beds / no kitchen .?

 

[tedpap]

[QUOTE="tedpap, post: 2197185, member: 8205" It is just getting to be a hassle and harder to rent out as the MF are getting higher, (now up to $540? for the 1 bd master suite).

If there are any other suggestions I would love to hear them, and thanks for the replies

The $ 540 MF - is it for the size unit with a partial kitchen & separate bedroom from the living room
or the hotel room - 2 double beds / no kitchen .?[/QUOTE]


It is a Master Suite, lg bedroom, separate lg bath, partial kitchen and lv room, balcony.
They have always been roomy enough, we just can't use it anymore.

 

[Eric B]

You might just PM T-Dot and ask if he wants it; sounds like the MF is lower than his current one. Also, when you talk to customer service, ask about adding someone to the contract and making them the designated owner rather than transferring it; that way they would get all the addenda, which typically don’t transfer.

 

[tedpap]

You might just PM T-Dot and ask if he wants it; sounds like the MF is lower than his current one. Also, when you talk to customer service, ask about adding someone to the contract and making them the designated owner rather than transferring it; that way they would get all the addenda, which typically don’t transfer.

Thanks, as a point of interest, I just had a quick conversation with Cust. Service about transferring my contract as I have someone interested in it. They are sending me the neccessary form with payout and fees involved. It doesn't sound like much although they have to pull up my contract to see what it states.

As a point of interest:
As I had this unit for a long time and has been paid for for a long time they told me I could just walk away and cancel it , no fee, they would email the form to me to do that. They say that is a long term standard that they have, (i suppose if they have all their purchase money, why would they not) I wonder if they do that for lucrative, newer contracts. Like I previously mentioned my MF fees are capped at 3%

I could do that, but would rather have someone younger and more able enjoy the resort for the last 5 years then let them sell it to someone else under a different label.

Thanks for all the suggestions and help.

 

[Eric B]

They're happy to let you walk away, particularly if you have the no stay, no pay addendum, because they can resell the RTU to someone else starting at a higher fee with the newer types of contracts that are more restrictive. If the folks currently interested fall through, let me know and I'll take it off your hands and pass it on down the line; these older contracts are worth preserving.

 

[tedpap]

They're happy to let you walk away, particularly if you have the no stay, no pay addendum, because they can resell the RTU to someone else starting at a higher fee with the newer types of contracts that are more restrictive. If the folks currently interested fall through, let me know and I'll take it off your hands and pass it on down the line; these older contracts are worth preserving.

Thanks Eric B, I will let you know if anything changes, I am currently waiting for a written response from the resort cust. Ser. with the update and form to transfer or assign ownership.
I will get back to you if anything falls through.
tedpap

 

[SunFunTravel]

They aren't ripping any of those buildings down. They are converting them to Grand Luxxe Jungle Suites. They absolutely want your contract back so they can resell it as a Grand Luxxe unit for 10x the money!!! When a Vidanta sales person opens their mouth, only lies come out... Even when they are trying to be truthful, they can't help but embellish. It's in their DNA. It's also one of the reasons why Cirque Du Soleil pulled out of the theme park. Vidanta was failing at holding up their end of the duties and were lying about it to Cirque. Cirque promptly cancelled the deal due to breach of contract. Vidanta had no choice but to move forward as they took out a massive loan for the park. If the park fails, Vidanta goes belly-up because Cirque just pulled the safety net out from under them (pun intended). They are under immense pressure right now. They will sell anything! Do you want a Vidanta sign from the resort, make an offer, take it home with you... LMFAO.

 

[holdaer]

.......... It's also one of the reasons why Cirque Du Soleil pulled out of the theme park. Vidanta was failing at holding up their end of the duties and were lying about it to Cirque. Cirque promptly cancelled the deal due to breach of contract. Vidanta had no choice but to move forward as they took out a massive loan for the park. If the park fails, Vidanta goes belly-up because Cirque just pulled the safety net out from under them (pun intended). They are under immense pressure right now.......

I just checked Vidanta website and the theme park is now called "The Parks" and there is no longer any reference to Cirque Du Soleil. Interesting development.

 

[Gypsykim]

Heading back to MP next week. We'll see how crazy they are to get our registered week. Got an amazing offer of $450 US room credit. Makes for a cheap vaca for us. I'll report back.

 

[Gypsykim]

They aren't ripping any of those buildings down. They are converting them to Grand Luxxe Jungle Suites. They absolutely want your contract back so they can resell it as a Grand Luxxe unit for 10x the money!!! When a Vidanta sales person opens their mouth, only lies come out... Even when they are trying to be truthful, they can't help but embellish. It's in their DNA. It's also one of the reasons why Cirque Du Soleil pulled out of the theme park. Vidanta was failing at holding up their end of the duties and were lying about it to Cirque. Cirque promptly cancelled the deal due to breach of contract. Vidanta had no choice but to move forward as they took out a massive loan for the park. If the park fails, Vidanta goes belly-up because Cirque just pulled the safety net out from under them (pun intended). They are under immense pressure right now. They will sell anything! Do you want a Vidanta sign from the resort, make an offer, take it home with you... LMFAO.

I just pulled my contract out and took a look. It states "The Company agrees not to modify the vacation units in the building that is the subject of this contract in any manner that significantly and adversely affects its use by Member."

So... does this mean they can't tear down the units or if they do, they must accommodate me in a better unit?