Maui Ocean Club Full press sales attempt

[bastroum]

Just curious...

Like many people I go on presentations with no intention of purchasing anything. Once in a great while I have questions about changes in the various programs, but mostly I go for free golf, $200 Resort credit, 200 DC points or 15,000 to 20,000 MRP's.

If one has no intention of buying, why do people go to the presentations and subject yourself to a potentially bad experience?

 

[dioxide45]

Just curious...

Like many people I go on presentations with no intention of purchasing anything. Once in a great while I have questions about changes in the various programs, but mostly I go for free golf, $200 Resort credit, 200 DC points or 15,000 to 20,000 MRP's.

If one has no intention of buying, why do people go to the presentations and subject yourself to a potentially bad experience?

Because I have the intention of scoring the $200 Resort credit, 200 DC points or 15,000 to 20,000 MRP's. They are the one asking me, I am not asking them.

 

[bastroum]

Because I have the intention of scoring the $200 Resort credit, 200 DC points or 15,000 to 20,000 MRP's. They are the one asking me, I am not asking them.

And I thought I was the only one!!!

 

[Fasttr]

That's what makes the complaints all that more perplexing to me.....people go for the gift....but then seem shocked that the sales peeps try to sell them something. A definite disconnect.

And as for "hard sell", I have seen a few Marriott sales peeps a bit more aggressive than others, but I'm sure when compared to a pitch at Westgate....nobody at a Marriott pitch has come close to seeing a true high pressure sales pitch.

 

[dioxide45]

That's what makes the complaints all that more perplexing to me.....people go for the gift....but then seem shocked that the sales peeps try to sell them something. A definite disconnect.

I don't think that people are surprised that the sales person is trying to sell them something. I think people are surprised by the additional sales pressure we are seeing from MVCI. What used to be a laid back sales attempt has definitely been ramped up. I have seen if get more intense over the years, though a lot still depends on the rep you get.

 

[Fasttr]

I don't think that people are surprised that the sales person is trying to sell them something. I think people are surprised by the additional sales pressure we are seeing from MVCI. What used to be a laid back sales attempt has definitely been ramped up. I have seen if get more intense over the years, though a lot still depends on the rep you get.

When it comes right down to it, the pressure is self induced. Short of the "fear" of giving up the the coveted prize at the end, you are free to get up and walk out at any point in the presentation. There is really no pressure, other than what you perceive.

 

[bastroum]

When it comes right down to it, the pressure is self induced. Short of the "fear" of giving up the the coveted prize at the end, you are free to get up and walk out at any point in the presentation. There is really no pressure, other than what you perceive.

Totally agree. At MOC last year we had a very pleasant "Owners Update". In and out in 45 minutes. The previous year was so bad I posted about it. I'm in sales and I'll never understand an aggressive (borderline rude) sales presentation. My guess is the salesperson had a bad day (personally or business) and they are frustrated, taking it out on the person in front of them.

 

[Fasttr]

I'm like you guys, I go for the free stuff, and figure they are asking me, I am not asking them, so I don't feel guilty not buying anything (even though one day I did ).

That said, the only borderline experience I had was a year ago at Grande Vista. My daughter had a softball game so I booked the first slot in the morning and told them I had to be out in 90 minutes to be able to get to Clermont to my daughters game. So as 90 minutes was nearing, I reminded them....and at 90 minutes, I knew I still had the "manager" and the "closer" to get through, so I simply said I had to leave, got up and walked out without my Disney bucks.

I have to say, they made it "right" without me doing a single thing, as when I returned to the room later that day, an envelope had been slid under our door with the Disney bucks in it and an apology note.

To me, the Disney bucks weren't motivation enough to miss my daughters game, so I simply got up and walked. No pressure....I was a little pissed off at the time for their not adhering to the 90 minute promise....but never felt pressure.

 

[mike2200]

I don't think that people are surprised that the sales person is trying to sell them something. I think people are surprised by the additional sales pressure we are seeing from MVCI. What used to be a laid back sales attempt has definitely been ramped up. I have seen if get more intense over the years, though a lot still depends on the rep you get.

My OP was only asking/ stating that they (Marriott) seemed to be using a hard press to sell and we hadn't had that before. Wanted to know if others felt that Marriott had turned up the heat.

We are quite able to say no or walk away....and the only surprise was the apparent NEW Marriott pressure/threats!!!

 

[bastroum]

My OP was only asking/ stating that they (Marriott) seemed to be using a hard press to sell and we hadn't had that before. Wanted to know if others felt that Marriott had turned up the heat.

We are quite able to say no or walk away....and the only surprise was the apparent NEW Marriott pressure/threats!!!

I don't think it's new. Like I said in 2012 I had an over the top, extreme high pressure, unpleasant update at MOC. Then in 2013 it was low key no pressure and very pleasant. I just think it's the luck of the draw in combination with whatever this weeks sales strategy meeting had for new closing tactics.

 

[BocaBoy]

There is no excuse for rude behavior and pressure tactics, which we have never had before. Also being threatened with being removed from being offered a gift for taking the update meeting.

I agree. I was not defending those tactics...in fact, my post said I hate them.

 

[BocaBoy]

This is the thing, what benefit is it to them to keep you there for 90 min if you are not going to buy ? It does not change the situation and they could be doing something else/catching up rather than sit in a room with people for 90 min to get zip.

The sales person can't normally make the decision to let you go before a certain period of time is up. Their job requirements include keeping you for a certain length of time. Otherwise, they are perceived internally as not trying hard enough to make a sale.

 

[dougp26364]

I think sometimes they work to make the experience unpleasant if they sense or see that you have a habit of wasting their time for the gifts. If you make the experience unpleasant enough, you'll stop wasting their time.

It works for us. While I could care less my wife gets offended and refuses to go most of the time. About the only time we go is if I have questions or if there's something I want to see. Even then it's difficult to get my wife to agree.

I can't tell you the number of times we've been told we'll never be offered the opportunity to attend a presentation again. Of course they're ALWAYS asking us to attend just one more presentation and, they're always offering gifts. After all these years we're still not on any blacklist that a salesman has mentioned.

 

[Fasttr]

There is a lot of psychology that goes into designing these pitches. I found this article to be interesting as it explains a lot of the "why" behind what they do....and also interestingly shows how certain things, although successful for closing some folks, may actually turn off others if not done correctly.

My favorite excerpt is the following surrounding the psychology of the gift:

One of the recent insights I’ve gained into consumer purchase behavior relates to loss. Essentially, people have a greater fear of losing than excitement over gaining something new. As outlined in Predictably Irrational by Dan Ariely, people are more motivated to take an action based on potential loss of something existing, than gaining something they do not currently possess. My primary motivation to attend these types of sales presentations is for some sort of desirable gift, followed by personal interest as a marketing professional, regarding current sales strategies employed in the field. My Puerta Vallarta experience demonstrated how effective this strategy can be: I was committed to completing the presentation, for fear of losing the $60 Dolphin Adventure tickets and $200 cash if I didn’t see it through. The reason is because these gifts were positioned as mine to lose vs. gain.

 

[Saintsfanfl]

I think sometimes they work to make the experience unpleasant if they sense or see that you have a habit of wasting their time for the gifts. If you make the experience unpleasant enough, you'll stop wasting their time.

It works for us. While I could care less my wife gets offended and refuses to go most of the time. About the only time we go is if I have questions or if there's something I want to see. Even then it's difficult to get my wife to agree.

I can't tell you the number of times we've been told we'll never be offered the opportunity to attend a presentation again. Of course they're ALWAYS asking us to attend just one more presentation and, they're always offering gifts. After all these years we're still not on any blacklist that a salesman has mentioned.

I wonder what I did. I know I told them all the timeshares I have bought on ebay and I even sold a few back to Marriott. I think they may have put down that I run a business and it's not personal. The truth is that it is definitely personal and I only do the side stuff to supplement part of the maintenance fees, but I would never buy anything directly from them except for maybe the resale department.

 

[mike2200]

When it comes right down to it, the pressure is self induced. Short of the "fear" of giving up the the coveted prize at the end, you are free to get up and walk out at any point in the presentation. There is really no pressure, other than what you perceive.

No their can be pressure applied and in my case (OP) there was and also a degree of rudeness and threat. Yes you can get up and walkout. But my original comments were I have not had this from Marriott before and questioned if perhaps it was a new tact.

There are people if they knew this was the approach by Marriott wouldn't attend the "update"

 

[pacman]

This is a great thread, and underlines the main reasons why I never go to the "owner updates", or, even worse, a sales presentations. We don't even go to the concierge to pick up our "free gift" when arriving. My time is way too valuable to waste on any of this. I, too, am at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club right now, and just smile nicely and say hi to the guys at the sales booths when passing.

 

[Fasttr]

No their can be pressure applied and in my case (OP) there was and also a degree of rudeness and threat. Yes you can get up and walkout. But my original comments were I have not had this from Marriott before and questioned if perhaps it was a new tact.

There are people if they knew this was the approach by Marriott wouldn't attend the "update"

I hear what you are saying. From my perspective, the biggest disconnect was your perception that this would be a laid back "owners update" when all of these are really "sales pitches". The person who signs folks up will call it different things to make it sound less like a sales pitch, as likely their sign up percentage is better that way. But for the sales people, its a sales pitch, no ifs and or buts about it. That's how they get paid...based on sales.

As for the rudeness, as others have said, that could be a bad sales person, or a decent person just having a bad day, or they reacted unprofessionally because of the pressure they have on them to sell to make money. Perhaps they were on the verge of losing their job if they didn't close X number of sales that week. Who knows. But hopefully the system weans out those exhibiting unprofessional or rude behavior. I totally agree that is unacceptable.

As for the concept of a "threat"....like in the article I posted a few posts above, the fact that in your mind, the prize was already yours, and you might lose it made you feel that it was a threat, and your fear of losing it made you take the tour. In reality, the ultimate decision to view the room in the new tower was 100% up to you (with the prize hanging in the balance of that decision of course ) They are betting that the psychology of the prize will keep you there for the entire length of the presentation, and with that comes the hope that eventually you will get tired of saying no...and perhaps they can convince you of making that be a yes. A good salesperson never stops at the word "no". They are trained to believe a "no" is a "maybe" and they are trained to sell through the objection in hopes they can convince you to buy.

I believe that if you can better understand why they are doing what they are doing, you can treat these like many of us do and take as many free gifts as they will keep giving you without feeling pressured or upset along the way. The way I see it, its all a frame of mind. I sort of get a kick out of watching for the different sales techniques they try to use along the way.

All that said, I think the days of a true "owners update" are long gone. The short answer to your OP is yes....times have changed and so have MVC's techniques.

 

[SpikeMauler]

This was my experience a few years ago
http://tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131409

Haven't gone to one since

 

[Swice]

Brand image

My wife and I went on our first Marriott timeshare presentation on our honeymoon in Hawaii 16 years ago. The sales lady was so easy going and honest. When she found out we flew on FF tickets and were staying in suites on Marriott points, and that both my wife and I traveled in our jobs, she said, "you don't need one of these now, but you may in the future. I have to keep you for a certain amount of time so let me show you a unit." Because of her attitude, we walked out and said to ourselves that if we ever decided to buy a timeshare, it would be through Marriott.

We ended up buying (direct through Marriott) about four years later.

Over the years, we have attended our share of presentations and we were true believers and proudly recommended a Marriott timeshare to anyone who would listen. ((We LOVE our Ocean Watch resort at Myrtle Beach, but we are not fans of "Myrtle Beach." ))

But things have changed... there is pressure now. Some sales reps over the past couple of years have been great. Others, shall I say, haven't been very bright. We are no longer quick to accept an "invitation." We will still go when we need a break from the sun or if our kids want a lazy morning in front of the TV-- and of course depending on what the incentive is.

I admit, there have been times we have picked up a tip from one of the sale reps.

But I think the discussion about pressure and incentives really overlooks what bothers people the most (at least the legacy owners).

None of us are fools and most owners have traditionally been (are) successful professionals in our careers. We understand sales, marketing and the fact that Marriott timeshares are a business. I think what impacts us the most is the realization that what we had/bought into no longer exists. We thought OUR Marriott timeshare company was different from all of the others. We were under the impression that it was a cut above-- a classy organization that treated us with respect and attracted more people like "us" for customers.


We are now mad that our illusion has been destroyed. There's no difference in our timeshare now than the company down the beach -- except we get "status" when we check into a Marriott hotel.

Our old Marriott timeshare company used to be a Lexus-- We walked into the showroom on a red carpet, an educated/professional looking/acting associate would offer us warm cookies and seat us in leather reclining chairs, we would get a loaner while our car was being repaired instead of sitting on hard chairs with the masses at the "other" dealerships. We thought our car was better. Yes, a few of the finishes are nicer on the Lexus (wood grain dash instead of plastic), but what we really have is a Toyota (even though in our minds it is a "Lexus"). Right now, people still want to drive a Lexus... but as soon as they take away the professional associates and replace them with the slick Willy types and stop serving the warm cookies and the loaner cars are not "free" anymore, then drivers will realize they're really driving "just a Toyota." When that happens, Lexus won't be "special" anymore -- and the desired customers will slowly stop recommending--

I just hope we don't wake up from our nap and find the pool deck at our resort is starting to look like a Carnival cruise ship instead of Holland America. Can you move your 50-empty beer cans out of my way? We're trying to go enter the hairy chest contest?

 

[mjkkb2]

Our old Marriott timeshare company used to be a Lexus-- We walked into the showroom on a red carpet, an educated/professional looking/acting associate would offer us warm cookies and seat us in leather reclining chairs, we would get a loaner while our car was being repaired instead of sitting on hard chairs with the masses at the "other" dealerships. We thought our car was better. Yes, a few of the finishes are nicer on the Lexus (wood grain dash instead of plastic), but what we really have is a Toyota (even though in our minds it is a "Lexus"). Right now, people still want to drive a Lexus... but as soon as they take away the professional associates and replace them with the slick Willy types and stop serving the warm cookies and the loaner cars are not "free" anymore, then drivers will realize they're really driving "just a Toyota." When that happens, Lexus won't be "special" anymore -- and the desired customers will slowly stop

I like your analogy

 

[Fasttr]

From VAC's Q4 and full year 2013 financial release from this morning.....

North America
VPG increased 6.8 percent to $3,103 in the fourth quarter of 2013 from $2,904 in the fourth quarter of 2012, driven by higher pricing and improved closing efficiency. Total North America contract sales were $186 million in the fourth quarter of 2013, an increase of $22 million over the prior year period, including approximately $9 million related to the additional week in the quarter.

VPG is Volume (or Value) per Guest, which means that for every couple that takes a tour (those that buy + those that don't) Marriott's average sale per tour given during Q4 2013 equaled $3,103. I bolded the words improved closing efficiency above, as that is clearly the desired byproduct of the ratcheting up of the "pressure" discussed in this thread. As discussed in posts above, its a numbers game and from a purely sales perspective, looking at their results, they are getting better at it all the time.

 

[mike2200]

I like your analogy

"VPG is Volume (or Value) per Guest, which means that for every couple that takes a tour (those that buy + those that don't) Marriott's average sale per tour given during Q4 2013 equaled $3,103. I bolded the words improved closing efficiency above, as that is clearly the desired byproduct of the ratcheting up of the "pressure" discussed in this thread. As discussed in posts above, its a numbers game and from a purely sales perspective, looking at their results, they are getting better at it all the time."

Yes it has become a volume business VS a people business...

And I believe in the long run Marriott will end up paying dearly for the attitude change!!!

 

[dioxide45]

"VPG is Volume (or Value) per Guest, which means that for every couple that takes a tour (those that buy + those that don't) Marriott's average sale per tour given during Q4 2013 equaled $3,103. I bolded the words improved closing efficiency above, as that is clearly the desired byproduct of the ratcheting up of the "pressure" discussed in this thread. As discussed in posts above, its a numbers game and from a purely sales perspective, looking at their results, they are getting better at it all the time."

Yes it has become a volume business VS a people business...

So me going to get my free gift actually makes them ~$3000. They should be happy to have me, we are an integral part of the equation.

And I believe in the long run Marriott will end up paying dearly for the attitude change!!!

Perhaps, as someone else stated, their goal is to irritate and drive away the "career" tour people. That would drive them away in hopes of getting in more prospects.

I think it would be unlikely that they would blacklist a current MVCI owners. Perhaps it is possible. Though more likely that they would blacklist a non owner who has taken many tours without purchasing.

 

[Fasttr]

So me going to get my free gift actually makes them ~$3000. They should be happy to have me, we are an integral part of the equation.

That's the way I look at it....by me saying "no" and walking away with my 20K MR points, I am actually helping them get to the next "yes".