Maui Availability

[pchung6]

I just checked WPORV, for every week from Jan. 1 - Apr. 6 and there are only 3 weeks that are not available.

I just checked again. They are available now, but was not just 1 hour ago and last 2-3 days. Anyways, it is working now
Thanks

 

[pathways25]

I strongly believe something is wrong there. Just checked again for both Maui and Kauai. For Maui, it shows nothing until April and only low avail till August 2016. For Kauai, nothing is available till August 2016.

So it leads me to believe SVN system is wrong, I will call tomorrow to clarify since I'm looking to reserve in late April. Did SVN just upgrade their system? April should be low season, I will be very disappointed if it is not going to be available.

I just looked at Princeville and it's all open from March through August except for the week before and after Easter. All of April is wide open with no "low availability" indicators for any Saturday check-in.

 

[lorenmd]

i was just on my star central and they do have a studio week available this dec 12=19

 

[AbelowDS]

Personal experience with II this year (so far) and last year. Trading my Sheratons Orlando and Myrtle Beach:

KAA and KAN request went in Dec 2013 for early Dec 2014. Never came through.

KAA and KAN request went in January 2015 for the week after thanksgiving 2015, hasn't come through yet.

This is VERY different than in past years. Especially for these lowest demand weeks (No problems with Westin Kauai, just for Maui...)

 

[LisaRex]

Personal experience with II this year (so far) and last year. Trading my Sheratons Orlando and Myrtle Beach:

KAA and KAN request went in Dec 2013 for early Dec 2014. Never came through.

KAA and KAN request went in January 2015 for the week after thanksgiving 2015, hasn't come through yet.

This is VERY different than in past years.

Good information to know. Sorry you didn't get your exchanges. As a point for comparison, I was able to exchange into WKORV using SOs for the first week of December about 6 months out.

SVO has to be careful here. While I think that inventory was skewed too heavily in II years ago (when everyone and their brother was able to exchange into WKORV), I think it's gone too far the other way. A healthy exchange program has a nice balance of internal and external exchanges, and at the very least an external exchange program should work for other Starwood resort owners who want low season weeks and deposit their weeks so far in advance.

 

[AbelowDS]

Good information to know... A healthy exchange program has a nice balance of internal and external exchanges, and at the very least an external exchange program should work for other Starwood resort owners who want low season weeks and deposit their weeks so far in advance.

I could not agree more. While we know of all the shady stuff that goes on in this industry, I never thought it would extend out to stuff like this. Well, maybe calling it shady is a bit extreme, but I know that I don;t like it!!

So, I have added to my request the Hyatt, the Marriotts, the Whaler, and even Ko Olina even though I really don't want to go to Oahu

 

[okwiater]

SVO has to be careful here. While I think that inventory was skewed too heavily in II years ago (when everyone and their brother was able to exchange into WKORV), I think it's gone too far the other way. A healthy exchange program has a nice balance of internal and external exchanges, and at the very least an external exchange program should work for other Starwood resort owners who want low season weeks and deposit their weeks so far in advance.

If the demand model indicates that all inventory will be reserved by Owners and SVN exchangers, what benefit would there be to SVO to divert inventory from SVN to II?

 

[canesfan]

I thought that in order for Starwood to deposit into II an owner had to deposit from that location?

I think in the past you were seeing some of the unsold inventory they had on hand. Especially when the economy was really bad. Sales were down and defaults high. Plus we didn't have the option to bank. It was either convert to hotel points or deposit into II. For an owner in Maui that doesn't make much financial sense. I'm sure if they aren't renting they are banking options. I know depositing into II would be one of my last choices for Maui. Cancun, yes.
Once the new phase opens and there's unsold inventory you may see more deposits.

 

[okwiater]

I thought that in order for Starwood to deposit into II an owner had to deposit from that location?

In theory, yes, but in reality Starwood has some latitude in allocating deposits based on their projections. Remember that you can deposit your 2015 Maui unit into II through December 31, 2015. That wouldn't be possible without Starwood being able to decouple the inventory deposited into II from an owner's election to deposit.

 

[LisaRex]

If the demand model indicates that all inventory will be reserved by Owners and SVN exchangers, what benefit would there be to SVO to divert inventory from SVN to II?

The way I understand the system, if an SVN owner deposits their week in II, then SVN was required to deposit a comparable week into II for other exchangers. (Similarly, if an owner converts their week to SOs, Starwood is supposed to make a surrendered week available for SVN exchangers.) I mean, that intuitively seems to be the only way an exchange system could work, no?

I can easily believe that in years' past, Starwood deposited more weeks than they were required to deposit into II because Starwood saw it as cheap and easy way to market the resort. But the extreme swing, from feast to famine, seems very odd. I mean, if a Starwood owner (with priority in II) cannot get a fill for a low season week with a deposit from a year out, then it seems to suggest that something else is going on here.

I know that a few years ago, someone discovered language that suggested that Starwood could deposit a week from ANY resort into II, but I can't find that thread. If that is the case, then that would explain a lot. But with no transparency, it's hard to know.

I do know that if things continue, then voluntary resorts will suffer disproportionately. And they are already at a disadvantage.

 

[canesfan]

Plus now how will handle Flex deposits now?

 

[DeniseM]

Plus now how will handle Flex deposits now?

When you make a deposit in II, you just get a credit, not as specific week deposited, so Flex deposits can be handled the same way they handle deposits now.

 

[canesfan]

No, I'm talking about what resort Starwood would chose to deposit. And lack of transparency.

 

[DeniseM]

No, I'm talking about what resort Starwood would chose to deposit. And lack of transparency.

No different than what they do now - they make the choice.

 

[pathways25]

The way I understand the system, if an SVN owner deposits their week in II, then SVN was required to deposit a comparable week into II for other exchangers. (Similarly, if an owner converts their week to SOs, Starwood is supposed to make a surrendered week available for SVN exchangers.) I mean, that intuitively seems to be the only way an exchange system could work, no?

I can easily believe that in years' past, Starwood deposited more weeks than they were required to deposit into II because Starwood saw it as cheap and easy way to market the resort. But the extreme swing, from feast to famine, seems very odd. I mean, if a Starwood owner (with priority in II) cannot get a fill for a low season week with a deposit from a year out, then it seems to suggest that something else is going on here.

I know that a few years ago, someone discovered language that suggested that Starwood could deposit a week from ANY resort into II, but I can't find that thread. If that is the case, then that would explain a lot. But with no transparency, it's hard to know.

I do know that if things continue, then voluntary resorts will suffer disproportionately. And they are already at a disadvantage.

How many KOR/KORN owners do you suppose deposit their weeks into II? I'd speculate that most KOR/KORN owners who can't use their weeks would much more likely rent the weeks out or convert to StarPoints. I think very few would deposit a week like that into II.

I'm sure you're right that Starwood used to deposit more weeks for KOR/KORN than they needed to. If they just deposit the number of weeks that owners actually sent to II, that would probably all but wipe out KOR/KORN availability in II.

 

[LisaRex]

How many KOR/KORN owners do you suppose deposit their weeks into II? I'd speculate that most KOR/KORN owners who can't use their weeks would much more likely rent the weeks out or convert to StarPoints. I think very few would deposit a week like that into II.

I don't know. When I owned WKORV, I deposited an unused studio in II because it was the quickest and easiest thing to do. I was not unhappy at all with my choice because I was able to book a 2 bdrm for my studio deposit, so I didn't feel like I was wasting my money. The beauty of II is that you have 2 full years make an exchange and you're not limited to Starwood resorts.

Banking has undoubtedly hurt II deposits, but remember that non-elite owners only have to June 30th to bank their SOs. If a WKORV owner can't use a week that they booked for the fall, II might be their best option

And remember that resale owners aren't allowed to convert to SPs, so none of those owners have that as an option.

As far as renting, there are over 475 ads right now on Redweek alone for WKORV rentals. So it's not as easy as it sounds, and you have to price it right, and book a high demand week, if you're going to be successful. IV owners might not clear MFs. So they might actually prefer II over renting.

Of course, your gut and my gut are all the data we have to go on. It's possible one or both of us might be surprised to see that actual numbers on exchanging. (I think we'd both be shocked at the number of owners who pay MFs and never use it or exchange it at all!)

 

[canesfan]

I'd never convert for SPs yet so many times you get the question here and it's a high priority to people. I can't see the value in getting 80k pts (12-20k a night to comparable Maui resort) vs potentially 2 weeks of vacation (at any of our SVN resorts).
But I agree, we'd probably be surprised to see the figures. Especially those that just let the options waste.

 

[okwiater]

The way I understand the system, if an SVN owner deposits their week in II, then SVN was required to deposit a comparable week into II for other exchangers. (Similarly, if an owner converts their week to SOs, Starwood is supposed to make a surrendered week available for SVN exchangers.) I mean, that intuitively seems to be the only way an exchange system could work, no?

I can easily believe that in years' past, Starwood deposited more weeks than they were required to deposit into II because Starwood saw it as cheap and easy way to market the resort. But the extreme swing, from feast to famine, seems very odd. I mean, if a Starwood owner (with priority in II) cannot get a fill for a low season week with a deposit from a year out, then it seems to suggest that something else is going on here.

I know that a few years ago, someone discovered language that suggested that Starwood could deposit a week from ANY resort into II, but I can't find that thread. If that is the case, then that would explain a lot. But with no transparency, it's hard to know.

I do know that if things continue, then voluntary resorts will suffer disproportionately. And they are already at a disadvantage.

Do you think that the recent lack of availability of popular resorts in II can NOT be explained by the combination of: (1) StarOptions banking; (2) the new online reservations system which makes it easier to find resort availability; and (3) an improved economy?

 

[DeniseM]

4) Starwood accumulating inventory for the new Flex system.

 

[LisaRex]

Do you think that the recent lack of availability of popular resorts in II can NOT be explained by the combination of: (1) StarOptions banking; (2) the new online reservations system which makes it easier to find resort availability; and (3) an improved economy?

I think that goes a long way in explaining why we haven't seen the mass bulk bankings in II. But from what I'm hearing, WKORV has gone from a robust inventory to almost nothing. I've heard just one exchange success story, possibly two, from people who submitted OGSs a long, long time ago. But I've read many failures, including this one. I mean, I can see a person who deposited their Starwood week a year ago not seeing a fill for February or July. But early December? That's not a drying up, that's a full-blown drought.

And I also think that one important component you may be missing is the impact of the new Flex program. Starwood may be beefing up that program (and the rumored Westin Flex system that will supposedly roll out in conjunction with WKORV-NN), at the expense of both SVN owners AND II exchangers.

 

[okwiater]

I think that goes a long way in explaining why we haven't seen the mass bulk bankings in II. But from what I'm hearing, WKORV has gone from a robust inventory to almost nothing. I've heard just one exchange success story, possibly two, from people who submitted OGSs a long, long time ago. But I've read many failures, including this one. I mean, I can see a person who deposited their Starwood week a year ago not seeing a fill for February or July. But early December? That's not a drying up, that's a full-blown drought.

I can believe it. Luxury travel in general and Hawaii in particular have boomed in the past couple of years. That's why they're building another resort.

And I also think that one important component you may be missing is the impact of the new Flex program. Starwood may be beefing up that program (and the rumored Westin Flex system that will supposedly roll out in conjunction with WKORV-NN), at the expense of both SVN owners AND II exchangers.

Not so sure that's the case. Even if Starwood is accumulating inventory, until they sell it they need to either rent the rooms on their website or deposit them in the SVN or II pools.

 

[pchung6]

I am still speculating SVN is holding these inventory that used to be deposited to II, now going to these type of 5 nights 6 days offerings (Costco promo, Direct Mail offering, etc...). I'm just speculating...

 

[pchung6]

I can believe it. Luxury travel in general and Hawaii in particular have boomed in the past couple of years.

But Marriott or Hilton or other resorts are still making large bulk Hawaii deposit. Only Westin Maui is not. I highly doubt it is luxury travel or economic is booming.