Master Stay Requirement

[goodbadugly]

So this was a new one on me but I'm sure many of you are aware of it. I tried to book a two bedroom stay in Ft Lauderdale in March for 4-5 days. The reservation system came back with only studios available. I changed the request to seven days and a two bedroom was available. I called MVC and explained my situation. I was told that the property has a Master Stay requirement for the days I wanted. I asked if there was a list of such rules for all the properties and any other rules I should know about on the website. The representative did not know. I asked to speak to a supervisor. After waiting two times each for 15+ minutes the representative asked if I would like a call back. I responded yes. At the end of completing the form he needed to fill out which included confirming my number and email address the last kick in the face was a supervisor would get back to me in 3-5 days. This program is just getting to hard and frustrating to manage. I can't believe I'm saying this but I wish I was a lawyer so I could go after these guys!!!

 

[dioxide45]

This is often referred to here as a minimum stay requirement. It has been well discussed in prior threads. If you search the forum for "minimum stay", with the quotes, those threads will turn up.

 

[goodbadugly]

This is often referred to here as a minimum stay requirement. It has been well discussed in prior threads. If you search the forum for "minimum stay", with the quotes, those threads will turn up.

Thanks. So what other rules do they have or make up to make our points even more worthless?

 

[Pamplemousse]

Thanks. So what other rules do they have or make up to make our points even more worthless?

As I understand it there is not an across the board MVC rule- the resorts choose and place their own restricts.
I know Crystal Shores often has a minimum number of nights restrictions.
I usually book a full week so I hadn’t run into it often.
As Dioxide says you can pull up other discussions and examples but I think it really varies by resort, season etc and you can’t draw an overall conclusion.

 

[Dean]

So this was a new one on me but I'm sure many of you are aware of it. I tried to book a two bedroom stay in Ft Lauderdale in March for 4-5 days. The reservation system came back with only studios available. I changed the request to seven days and a two bedroom was available. I called MVC and explained my situation. I was told that the property has a Master Stay requirement for the days I wanted. I asked if there was a list of such rules for all the properties and any other rules I should know about on the website. The representative did not know. I asked to speak to a supervisor. After waiting two times each for 15+ minutes the representative asked if I would like a call back. I responded yes. At the end of completing the form he needed to fill out which included confirming my number and email address the last kick in the face was a supervisor would get back to me in 3-5 days. This program is just getting to hard and frustrating to manage. I can't believe I'm saying this but I wish I was a lawyer so I could go after these guys!!!

As I noted here before, I've discussed this issue directly with Corporate. The contact person investigated and was genuinely helpful. The answer was that each property has a corporate level inventory manager who controlled these minimum stay requirements as well as the number of 2 BR units that could be locked off for given properties. I got the sense that there were several of them but not one for each property. When I stated that it should be listed somewhere so we could know, I was told it was too fluid to do so. I disagreed but the person with whom I was speaking did not have control and would pass it along. IMO if they can input it in the system they can put it on HUB or a link on the reservation page or even a pop up when applicable. Beachplace seems to be one of the locations where this is routine. I currently have a reservation there in a similar situation where I only need 1 night in a 2 BR but had to reserve 4 nights. I was planning on sending an email off the website to shorten it as I was told this was often possible but haven't yet. This AM I did get an exchange that covers the night so I may. not need it after all depending on re-trading options.

 

[goodbadugly]

Thanks Dean. Too fluid is BS. Just another excuse for them not to want to do something. In this particular case it would probably show how prevalent across all properties this occurs and would illustrate another reason why the point system is a con!

 

[Dean]

Thanks Dean. Too fluid is BS. Just another excuse for them not to want to do something. In this particular case it would probably show how prevalent across all properties this occurs and would illustrate another reason why the point system is a con!

Personally I am OK with minimum stay requirements they just need to be noticed and consistent. That's one of the beauties of TUG and other such venues to allow dissemination of information. If you have enough points, reserve then see if you can shorten the reservation.

 

[goodbadugly]

That's a good idea. I'd like to hear from the TUG community to see if anyone has had a positive experience doing that. BTW transparency is not one of their behaviors.

 

[Dean]

That's a good idea. I'd like to hear from the TUG community to see if anyone has had a positive experience doing that. BTW transparency is not one of their behaviors.

I have done so and others have reported both being able to do so and being denied. All you can do is try. If you have enough points and they say no, you could always hold it and try later either for the shorter stay or to shorten it later. My personal experience is with Beachplace in this regard where I've seen significant requirements that varied by the time of the year and weekend vs weekday. Seems to be a larger issue during holiday and winter Platinum time from what I've seen. I've even seen it vary where it was less restrictive one day and more restrictive the next. The last time I had direct experience caused me to start looking and I found several weeks where the requirement was for a full 7 days.

 

[ljmiii]

In this particular case it would probably show how prevalent across all properties this occurs and would illustrate another reason why the point system is a con!

Like @Dean I have no problem with resorts having minimum stay requirements but want MVC resorts to let us know what the restrictions are during the booking process (as the RCC St Thomas does). I own a mix of weeks and Abound Points and understand that there is a big difference between actual ownership at a resort and exchanging in using Abound Points.

That's a good idea. I'd like to hear from the TUG community to see if anyone has had a positive experience doing that. BTW transparency is not one of their behaviors.

I've never actually had to shorten a reservation while the minimum stay restrictions were still in effect. Some I've ended up using in their entirety, some I've cancelled outright when something better came along and some I've shortened when I noticed that the resort/villa type/month in question allowed short stays to be booked.

 

[Big Matt]

Don’t sell me on being able to book one day at a time at 13 months and then not allow it.


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[SueDonJ]

Don’t sell me on being able to book one day at a time at 13 months and then not allow it.


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I honestly haven't ever understood this criticism, not when it's applied to Club Points nor when it's applied to floating Weeks. Unless we own Fixed Week-Fixed Date-Fixed Unit intervals, the ability/right to reserve certain usage with Marriott timeshares hasn't ever equalled a guarantee of certain desired reservations.

Unless we own any of those intervals, of which there are VERY few across the Marriott portfolio, every single one of us bought into this system that's conditional on myriad "subject to availability" caveats when using our ownerships. Sometimes other owners get there ahead of us, sometimes Marriott exercises its rights and gets there ahead of us, sometimes it's Marriott-as-Manager imposing rules/restrictions either permanently or temporarily by exercising their right to forecast usage, sometimes it's the resort GM's working with M-as-M to implement restrictions that protect against too much breakage in inventory, etc etc etc

I agree with those in this thread who recognize Marriott's right to occasionally put availability restrictions on Points reservations, but just wish they could be known by users before going through the reservation process.

 

[Dean]

Don’t sell me on being able to book one day at a time at 13 months and then not allow it.


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IMO it's not about what's sold but about what the legal paperwork says. I don't think any of us should rely on what a salesperson says and if we do, shame on us.

 

[Fasttr]

IMO it's not about what's sold but about what the legal paperwork says. I don't think any of us should rely on what a salesperson says and if we do, shame on us.

For me, it’s not what the sales folks say, MVC’s own explanation of the benefit levels (linked below) say 13 months 1+ night with no asterisk explaining more. Only comment at bottom is about Ritz 3 night minimum. If they are applying further minimums, at least communicate them.

https://www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/owners/Owner-Benefit-Level.pdf

 

[Big Matt]

I get the fine print part. My post is more about what was promised in a sales presentation and it was tongue in cheek for the most part. I've owned Marriott for 25 years, and know how to get the most out of my ownership.

 

[Jim Mc]

I had the same issue with a stay at Ft Lauderdale, wanted 5 nights but not available, but looked for 7 and it was. After a lengthy discussion with the phone rep, he contacted some one, and was able to get me the 5 nights. A LOT of BS for something that is in writing: 13 months out / one day at a time EXCEPT Ritz Carlton. Never ran into this except with Beach Place Towers, but assume there are other places.

We are stuck between a rock and hard place. We could be VERY vocal about not purchasing any Marriott Abound Points, and currently I am pro Marriott Vacation Club (even though time and again they try my patience with BS) but that would inevitably cause a bigger increase in MF as less people purchase.

I wonder if anyone has ever gone to a MVC board meeting and raised all the inconsistencies and issues?

 

[dougp26364]

Don’t sell me on being able to book one day at a time at 13 months and then not allow it.


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I understand your issue. It ticks me off as well because that was one of the benefits I could use.

I also understand the need to keep as many unbroken weeks as possible for deeded weeks owners wanting to stay on their owned time. We own silver season at Ocean Pointe. We like to go the first 2 weeks of December and we typically reserve the entire unit rather than lock off. Unfortunately, probably because Ocean Pointe allows partial weeks booking at 13 months, we can’t book our preferred week in our preferred unit size in our owned season. So from that point of view I really wish they’d save enough weeks for those of use that own deeded weeks to reserve our units at 12 months out for any week in our season. I can see that allowing broken weeks at maybe 9 months in advance, but give deeded weeks owners the opportunity to book the most in demand weeks during their season first.

 

[Dean]

For me, it’s not what the sales folks say, MVC’s own explanation of the benefit levels (linked below) say 13 months 1+ night with no asterisk explaining more. Only comment at bottom is about Ritz 3 night minimum. If they are applying further minimums, at least communicate them.

https://www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/owners/Owner-Benefit-Level.pdf

There is wording in the legal docs that allow for such restrictions. I get that it sucks but there are other considerations. Making short reservations during high demand times increases orphaned nights and ultimately increases fees as well. IMO MVC should be more forthcoming so we all know what to expect but I don't think it possible to say there was a formal promise to be able to make single night reservations across the board. Obviously there are sales people out there who have been less than honest about such matters.

Exchange Company may impose

minimum stay requirements for high demand Use Periods at Accommodations at any Component from

time to time as it deems appropriate in its sole discretion.

Exchange Company shall have the right to forecast anticipated reservations and use of the

Accommodations and is authorized to demand balance, reserve, deposit, or rent the

Accommodations for the purpose of facilitating the use or future use of the Accommodations or

other benefits made available to Program Members through the Program in its sole discretion.

Unless the Affiliate Program Documents provide otherwise, Exchange Company has the right to

establish priority lists, lottery systems, or other alternative methods of reserving Accommodations in an

effort to ensure the fair and equitable reservation and use of Accommodations during holidays, events, and

other high demand periods. If implemented, access to certain Use Periods by a Program Member may be

restricted in a given year based upon the Program Member’s ranking in a lottery or some other allocation

methodology established by Exchange Company. Exchange Company may establish an administrative

fee for this service. Exchange Company may restrict the number of weeks or days that may be reserved

by a Program Member during holidays, events, or other high demand periods and Exchange Company may

create alternate reservation procedures and the Exchange Point Schedule may be revised on a Market-

specific or Component-by-Component basis to account for discrepancies in Markets, legal structures, travel

patterns, or other factors as determined by Exchange Company from time to time. Exchange Company

also has the right to establish certain priorities or alternate methods of reserving Accommodations for or

designate specific Accommodations or Use Periods that may only be reserved by Program Members

during, the first twelve (12) months of the Program Members’ participation in the Program, for purposes of

educating and facilitating the use of the Program by such new Program Members.

 

[tha]

Personally I am OK with minimum stay requirements they just need to be noticed and consistent. That's one of the beauties of TUG and other such venues to allow dissemination of information. If you have enough points, reserve then see if you can shorten the reservation.

I ran into this for April stays in the Palm Springs area. Last year Resolution Services shortened the 5 night reservations (MS5) to 4. This year Marriott has refused and told me to talk to the property. I have talked to the GM and Ops manager and they say "the Revenue Team is not customer facing" as if that is an excuse for them to take any action they want. I also asked for a legal basis for MS restrictions, on multiple occasions, and none has been provided. Marriott knows this is in violation of the contract but they ... just...do ..... not ........ care.

 

[dioxide45]

I ran into this for April stays in the Palm Springs area. Last year Resolution Services shortened the 5 night reservations (MS5) to 4. This year Marriott has refused and told me to talk to the property. I have talked to the GM and Ops manager and they say "the Revenue Team is not customer facing" as if that is an excuse for them to take any action they want. I also asked for a legal basis for MS restrictions, on multiple occasions, and none has been provided. Marriott knows this is in violation of the contract but they ... just...do ..... not ........ care.

This is covered in the Abound Exchange Procedures.

Use Periods in The Ritz-Carlton Club, St. Thomas may be subject to a three-night minimum stay, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion. In addition, Exchange Company may impose minimum stay requirements for high demand Use Periods at Accommodations at any Component from time to time as it deems appropriate in its sole discretion.

 

[dougp26364]

A view from the other side of this coin:

We’ve been deeded week owners at Ocean Pointe since 2001. Prior to Abound we never had a problem booking our full unit for any check in day at 12 months. A few years post Abound we started having trouble booking Thursday check in dates. Then a couple of more years go by and we end up with a check in choice of 2 of 4 possible days. Another couple of years and we couldn’t book our full unit. Another year or two and we can’t even book our home resort for the week we want in our own season. Sure we can still book the worst of the weeks from our season, but not the best.

This year I went ahead and booked a one bedroom ocean front using Abound points. We own a 3 bedroom unit. The unit doesn’t get enough Abound points to book the same size unit with the same view for the week we want. It’s about 1,000 points short. After booking the 1 bedroom I went back and checked because I had a hunch, sure enough I could book any size unit, any day for as little as 1 night.

So points owners might cry about not being able to book a partial week 13 months in advance, but many of the deeded week owners bought and paid for their vacation weeks long before Abound points were a thing. Now deeded week owners are finding themselves pushed out by points users booking partial weeks before they even have a chance to book at their own home resort. How is that fare?

We’ve used points exclusively for the last several years, so I get the view from the points side. But I also see the issue from the deeded weeks owners side as well. I’d MUCH rather be able to book my full, deeded week ownership in my season than waste expensive points booking the same thing. It would either save me around 1,000 points, or I could lock off the unit and trade the studio portion for a full week somewhere else. Either way I’d get a lot better value from my deed.

I think the easiest work around for Marriott would be to allow deeded week owners to book their full week 13 months in advance. That would give me equal opportunity to book my deeded week along with points owners who can book a partial weeks 13 months out. It would at least put us closer to being in equal footing.

 

[Dean]

I ran into this for April stays in the Palm Springs area. Last year Resolution Services shortened the 5 night reservations (MS5) to 4. This year Marriott has refused and told me to talk to the property. I have talked to the GM and Ops manager and they say "the Revenue Team is not customer facing" as if that is an excuse for them to take any action they want. I also asked for a legal basis for MS restrictions, on multiple occasions, and none has been provided. Marriott knows this is in violation of the contract but they ... just...do ..... not ........ care.

As noted both in my post and dioxide's, they have the right to do this unilaterally. This is consistent with my discussions with corporate a couple of years ago. Remember that from a points standpoint we really don't own anything and have very little legal standing. That said, I'm told the minimum stays are fluid so I'd try again later to shorten your stay, maybe several different times if needed.

IMO the ability to book shorter stays at the same time as longer ones is positive for a small subset of members but negative to the system and membership as a whole.

To Doug's point, my understanding of the way weeks are allocated to the points side gives points reservations a standing ahead of most weeks owners at applicable resorts for the higher demand times esp for the 13 month reservations. Rather than just opening up the entire season to points allowing them to be concentrated for certain high demand weeks, they should have some guardrails that spread out the availability across the entire season. The other resort systems I'm aware of that have underlying weeks and run on points restrict the available reservations based on the actual week given up.

 

[Superchief]

A view from the other side of this coin:

We’ve been deeded week owners at Ocean Pointe since 2001. Prior to Abound we never had a problem booking our full unit for any check in day at 12 months. A few years post Abound we started having trouble booking Thursday check in dates. Then a couple of more years go by and we end up with a check in choice of 2 of 4 possible days. Another couple of years and we couldn’t book our full unit. Another year or two and we can’t even book our home resort for the week we want in our own season. Sure we can still book the worst of the weeks from our season, but not the best.

This year I went ahead and booked a one bedroom ocean front using Abound points. We own a 3 bedroom unit. The unit doesn’t get enough Abound points to book the same size unit with the same view for the week we want. It’s about 1,000 points short. After booking the 1 bedroom I went back and checked because I had a hunch, sure enough I could book any size unit, any day for as little as 1 night.

So points owners might cry about not being able to book a partial week 13 months in advance, but many of the deeded week owners bought and paid for their vacation weeks long before Abound points were a thing. Now deeded week owners are finding themselves pushed out by points users booking partial weeks before they even have a chance to book at their own home resort. How is that fare?

We’ve used points exclusively for the last several years, so I get the view from the points side. But I also see the issue from the deeded weeks owners side as well. I’d MUCH rather be able to book my full, deeded week ownership in my season than waste expensive points booking the same thing. It would either save me around 1,000 points, or I could lock off the unit and trade the studio portion for a full week somewhere else. Either way I’d get a lot better value from my deed.

I think the easiest work around for Marriott would be to allow deeded week owners to book their full week 13 months in advance. That would give me equal opportunity to book my deeded week along with points owners who can book a partial weeks 13 months out. It would at least put us closer to being in equal footing.

I have a similar problem with my Oceana Palms gold week. Not only do I receive 400 fewer points for my Gold week than my Ocean Pointe silver week, but now I can never reserve a Saturday check-in for the last week of October. For the past 2 years, I was on the website at 9am inventory release day and Saturday check-ins were not available. Point requirements for Oceana Palms are always identical to Ocean Pointe 2BR, but the points that are given are always less for every season. Fortunately, I was able to reserve Island View at Crystal Shores for that week using my VC points.

I've noticed that the 7 night stay minimum appears to be in effect all year long at Crystal Shores. We typically go for two weeks in mid-October and are never able to reserve fewer than 7 nights at the 13 and 12 month booking windows.