Marriott Vacation Club Inventory - Empty

[dan_hoog]

Hello,

We've owned Marriott timeshares (weeks, points, original pre-construction new & resale weeks, then points).

We had good luck, apparently, with the points initially, but couldn't take the actual vacation due to the pandemic. We reversed the transaction and had plenty of banked and accruing points.

Now I find that absolutely nothing of value seems available. If I search anywhere I'd conceivably go, at any time that is a near season for the destination, I get nothing found and no availability. Maybe one or two little exceptions, but nothing remotely attractive, even to rent out.

Are other people experiencing this? Is it new? I'm wondering if the adjustments and responses for the pandemic have overcommitted inventory throughout our booking window. We are chairman level and I still can't find anything.

On a separate note, we have two OceanWatch units in Myrtle Beach. I was on the phone the moment the lines opened this AM. I already had to make alternative plans because there was no inventory for my preferred check-in day. Inventory went by 9:06 AM, after holding since 9:00 AM, on the date the inventory supposedly opens.

Maybe when people book/bank/deposit their MOW weeks, high-demand check-in dates are being allocated first. But these weeks weren't supposedly available before today for any reason. This has gotten worse and worse with each year. Our Aruba platinum is so far ok, as long as I call in at the critical millisecond.

Our 20-year history with Marriott was mostly good, but I'm getting worried that the worst of timeshare experiences is now heading straight for us.

Any thoughts on this or how we can better manage our deteriorating Marriott Vacation Club ownership would be appreciated.

 

[SueDonJ]

The pandemic resulted in thousands of canceled reservations and then Marriott expanded the usage of those returned DC Points to a 120-days Reservation Window with an expiration date of 12/31/22. While it's a generous expansion of the official cancellation terms, it's going to cause availability issues through the remainder of 2021 all the way through 2022. IMO Marriott couldn't win in this situation no matter what they did because they can't make reservations that were cancelled in the past available for the future, but at least some people will be able to get some value out of their affected points (especially if they can make use of what is historically low-demand inventory, because the high-demand inventory is still being booked by owners as early as thirteen months in advance, as usual.)

As for Weeks availability at OceanWatch for next year which dates are you trying to reserve, and, are you using the 13-mos Reservation Window for multi-Weeks or the 12-mos window for a single Week? Navigating through the "When Can I Reserve" tool on the owners' website shows that Weeks inventory for June/July 2022 at OW is released on either Monday, Tuesday or Thursday. Today's Wednesday so this morning you're either a day behind or a day ahead of the open window? To check:

--> Sign in to owners.marriottvacationclub.com
--> click on "When Can I Reserve?" under "Plan" in the box that comes up when you hover on "USE WEEK(S)"
--> Click "yes" if a pop-up box appears
--> Click on "Marriott's Ocean Watch Villas" in the list
--> Navigate through the calendar in the first box to select your desired check-in date; the 12-mos and 13-mos Reservation Windows will auto-populate.

 

[dan_hoog]

...
As for Weeks availability at OceanWatch for next year which dates are you trying to reserve, and, are you using the 13-mos Reservation Window for multi-Weeks or the 12-mos window for a single Week? Navigating through the "When Can I Reserve" tool on the owners' website shows that Weeks inventory for June/July 2022 at OW is released on either Monday, Tuesday or Thursday. Today's Wednesday so this morning you're either a day behind or a day ahead of the open window? To check:

--> Sign in to owners.marriottvacationclub.com
--> click on "When Can I Reserve?" under "Plan" in the box that comes up when you hover on "USE WEEK(S)"
--> Click "yes" if a pop-up box appears
--> Click on "Marriott's Ocean Watch Villas" in the list
--> Navigate through the calendar in the first box to select your desired check-in date; the 12-mos and 13-mos Reservation Windows will auto-populate.

Thanks for the comments.

I'll try the tool. I was told today was the day. When I complained to the person this AM, they didn't say this wasn't the earliest day, but that isn't conclusive.

Yes, 13-month window, last week of July 2022 check-in for two concurrent units.

 

[jwalk03]

Yesterday would have been the 13-month window for the last week of July 2022.

 

[davidvel]

Yesterday would have been the 13-month window for the last week of July 2022.

View attachment 37155

Correct. Many complaints about not getting inventory end up in the same place, with posts like yours. Most people calculate themselves and don't understand the nuances of the procedures, or just mess up the math. Too bad more people don't know about or use the calculator.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for the comments.

I'll try the tool. I was told today was the day. When I complained to the person this AM, they didn't say this wasn't the earliest day, but that isn't conclusive.

Yes, 13-month window, last week of July 2022 check-in for two concurrent units.

I think part of it is Covid but also people are getting better at reserving and planning. There will be more inventory at 12 months. IMO it's always easier to reserve at 12 months than 13 months out when just looking at one week. Remember those that have multiple weeks may have scheduled a week or even a month ago.

 

[PhoenixCanuck]

There may be another aspect to this, and I'd like to hear some opinions on what I'm about to say.

And that is simply that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has not brought much new hard product on line in recent years. They have been selling points like crazy, but they're not really building any new resorts, with the exception of a few conversions in urban centers, and that really cool (but relatively small) add on to an existing hotel in Costa Rica.

And so I've raised this as a concern at my last two sales presentations, that these days the company seems to be all about selling points rather than building world class timeshare resorts as they once did. And I've asked the question, what is on the other side of the ledger for all the points that they are selling? Does there have to be some hard inventory in the Trust to offset every point sold? Neither time did I receive any kind of cogent response, although I didn't press all that hard.

Does anyone here know how that works?

 

[Steve Fatula]

The pandemic resulted in thousands of canceled reservations and then Marriott expanded the usage of those returned DC Points to a 120-days Reservation Window with an expiration date of 12/31/22. While it's a generous expansion of the official cancellation terms, it's going to cause availability issues through the remainder of 2021 all the way through 2022. IMO Marriott couldn't win in this situation no matter what they did because they can't make reservations that were cancelled in the past available for the future, but at least some people will be able to get some value out of their affected points (especially if they can make use of what is historically low-demand inventory, because the high-demand inventory is still being booked by owners as early as thirteen months in advance, as usual.)

Boy do we remember the seemingly endless complaints in the megathread last year about how Marriott wasn't offering anything for those folks and their cancelled vacations. The complaints were coming fast and furious back then. Why couldn't Marriott offer more, etc. And you know some of us said, just wait, they may be offering too much! Of course, those losing vacations were really upset at that concept. But here we are, and the jury is still out perhaps, but, it is starting to look bad for inventory! Points or weeks.

 

[CPNY]

Extending points to the end of 2022 was done to alleviate having nearly zero availability in 2021 due to covid. Being that Vistana has the same policy, I’ve been using my Star Options as much as I can. As of now, I have nothing left for 2021 and nothing banked. I went into the pandemic with two years of banked points. I used as much as i could since resorts opened in June of 2020 and I will start 2022 fresh. I’m happy that if I need to bank my 2022 SO, I’ll have until the end of 2024 to use them. I’ve weathered the proverbial storm and have been blessed enough to travel. My advice to many TS owning family members is, use whatever you can whenever you can. Don’t be left holding the bag of unused points.

 

[pchung6]

I've banked all of my SO points for 2020 and deposited all my Marriott weeks to Interval. I also find the availability is not that great but feel pressure to use anywhere I can before 2022. I still have a lot left and probably need to bank 2021-2022 usage again. You just need to check almost everyday at 120 days mark and if you see anything you can use, reserve it. You can rent it out and at least get something back.

 

[davidvel]

There may be another aspect to this, and I'd like to hear some opinions on what I'm about to say.

And that is simply that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has not brought much new hard product on line in recent years. They have been selling points like crazy, but they're not really building any new resorts, with the exception of a few conversions in urban centers, and that really cool (but relatively small) add on to an existing hotel in Costa Rica.

And so I've raised this as a concern at my last two sales presentations, that these days the company seems to be all about selling points rather than building world class timeshare resorts as they once did. And I've asked the question, what is on the other side of the ledger for all the points that they are selling? Does there have to be some hard inventory in the Trust to offset every point sold? Neither time did I receive any kind of cogent response, although I didn't press all that hard.

Does anyone here know how that works?

All points sold (or still owned by DC) are tied to real weeks inventory. This is part of timeshare requirements and closely watched by many here. The trust is just an owner like any other owner, except they control everything with little transparency on the reservation side.

 

[Dean]

There may be another aspect to this, and I'd like to hear some opinions on what I'm about to say.

And that is simply that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has not brought much new hard product on line in recent years. They have been selling points like crazy, but they're not really building any new resorts, with the exception of a few conversions in urban centers, and that really cool (but relatively small) add on to an existing hotel in Costa Rica.

And so I've raised this as a concern at my last two sales presentations, that these days the company seems to be all about selling points rather than building world class timeshare resorts as they once did. And I've asked the question, what is on the other side of the ledger for all the points that they are selling? Does there have to be some hard inventory in the Trust to offset every point sold? Neither time did I receive any kind of cogent response, although I didn't press all that hard.

Does anyone here know how that works?

We'd all love to see more new and well placed inventory but as posted by davidvel, ALL inventory has a hard basis of some type. So they are not overselling in that sense.

 

[rthib]

Does there have to be some hard inventory in the Trust to offset every point sold? Neither time did I receive any kind of cogent response, although I didn't press all that hard.
Does anyone here know how that works?

Yes, there is hard inventory behind it. Not doing that is what sent Jim Bakker (of PTL fame) to prison.
The way it works is every week has a point value. The weeks that the trust owns have a point value and that is the available pool of points to sell.
It all sounds good until you realize that those Summer weeks in the Desert, Mud Weeks in the Mountain etc... All have point values too.

So the weeks that normally Marriott was having trouble selling are now just points.

So someone is buying the points equivalent of an Ocean Front Maui week but the weeks that are behind it are really a few weeks in the Desert when it is 110 degrees.

just a new variation on the "show the book" and trade sales pitch. Buy this junk week in the Desert but you can trade for 4t of July on the Beach.
As they sell more points, good weeks will be harder to get, except for those with higher status who can book early. So you need to buy more points to get higher status.

 

[PhoenixCanuck]

We'd all love to see more new and well placed inventory but as posted by davidvel, ALL inventory has a hard basis of some type. So they are not overselling in that sense.

That sounds good, and I seem to remember it being the case under the terms and conditions of the Trust. But how is this really really working in practice when what I say is also true... that they have been selling a lot of points in recent years while at the same time not introducing as much in the way of new hard product into the system?

When the points system was first rolled out over a decade ago, I recall that any unsold weeks at that time were moved into the Trust. So at that time there was almost certainly some degree of "excess inventory" in the system over what they would have been required to have. I have to believe that now, after a decade of success selling as many points as they can, there must be a lot less "excess inventory" than there was back then. So wouldn't the lessening of this slack contribute to a tightening of inventory available to book for use by owners, even without the COVID-related issues discussed above, making it not as easy to find availability as it once was?

Again, I welcome any insight on this that others may have. Is anyone else concerned about the lack of new resorts under the "asset-light" model, now that this is a public company that seems to be primarily in the business of making contract sales? Heck, since the end of the financial crisis they haven't really even resumed the build-out of some of their winners, like Lakeshore Reserve.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

Here is how I look at it:

Those who own weeks will always have weeks to reserve as those weeks are put aside in your specific season each year.

Those who own points may always have a possible inventory search issue as one does not own any specific resort or time frame. Points owners own every resort and every time frame, and are always competing against all other point owners.

Additionally, because of Covid, there is now a huge, pent up demand for traveling and making up for lost time. I think pickings will be slim for the near future as folks want to use (spend) their points.


.

 

[Dean]

That sounds good, and I seem to remember it being the case under the terms and conditions of the Trust. But how is this really really working in practice when what I say is also true... that they have been selling a lot of points in recent years while at the same time not introducing as much in the way of new hard product into the system?

When the points system was first rolled out over a decade ago, I recall that any unsold weeks at that time were moved into the Trust. So at that time there was almost certainly some degree of "excess inventory" in the system over what they would have been required to have. I have to believe that now, after a decade of success selling as many points as they can, there must be a lot less "excess inventory" than there was back then. So wouldn't the lessening of this slack contribute to a tightening of inventory available to book for use by owners, even without the COVID-related issues discussed above, making it not as easy to find availability as it once was?

Again, I welcome any insight on this that others may have. Is anyone else concerned about the lack of new resorts under the "asset-light" model, now that this is a public company that seems to be primarily in the business of making contract sales? Heck, since the end of the financial crisis they haven't really even resumed the build-out of some of their winners, like Lakeshore Reserve.

As new inventory is declared there tends to be a small amount of excess availability but they don't declare an entire property all at one. They declare it in sections for this very reason so they can retain control, rent it out, etc. They must declare before selling so they phase it in by sections.

 

[davidvel]

Yes, there is hard inventory behind it. Not doing that is what sent Jim Bakker (of PTL fame) to prison.
The way it works is every week has a point value. The weeks that the trust owns have a point value and that is the available pool of points to sell.
It all sounds good until you realize that those Summer weeks in the Desert, Mud Weeks in the Mountain etc... All have point values too.

So the weeks that normally Marriott was having trouble selling are now just points.

So someone is buying the points equivalent of an Ocean Front Maui week but the weeks that are behind it are really a few weeks in the Desert when it is 110 degrees.

just a new variation on the "show the book" and trade sales pitch. Buy this junk week in the Desert but you can trade for 4t of July on the Beach.
As they sell more points, good weeks will be harder to get, except for those with higher status who can book early. So you need to buy more points to get higher status.

I think what many are missing is that if the trust only owns mud weeks, then someone cannot reserve a ski week (putting aside exchanges by the trust.) So, you are right that if they sell enough points for a ski week, but the trust has no ski weeks, then the points owners are s o l if they have enough points for a ski week. None of this has any effect on traditional weeks owners if the rules are followed.

 

[jwalk03]

Are there any new resorts even in the pipeline people are aware of? It would be nice to see something new added at least periodically. (I know Costa Rica just came online, but its very small.)

Wyndham seems to add a new resort or two almost every year.

 

[Fasttr]

Are there any new resorts even in the pipeline people are aware of? It would be nice to see something new added at least periodically. (I know Costa Rica just came online, but its very small.)

Wyndham seems to add a new resort or two almost every year.

https://www.bizjournals.com/pacific/news/2020/02/19/marriott-vacations-worldwide-confirms-plans-for.html

 

[dioxide45]

There may be another aspect to this, and I'd like to hear some opinions on what I'm about to say.

And that is simply that Marriott Vacations Worldwide has not brought much new hard product on line in recent years. They have been selling points like crazy, but they're not really building any new resorts, with the exception of a few conversions in urban centers, and that really cool (but relatively small) add on to an existing hotel in Costa Rica.

And so I've raised this as a concern at my last two sales presentations, that these days the company seems to be all about selling points rather than building world class timeshare resorts as they once did. And I've asked the question, what is on the other side of the ledger for all the points that they are selling? Does there have to be some hard inventory in the Trust to offset every point sold? Neither time did I receive any kind of cogent response, although I didn't press all that hard.

Does anyone here know how that works?

They can't sell inventory unless it is conveyed to the trust. While they did bring on Costa Rica, it did nothing to help alleviate inventory since foreign resorts can't be added to the US Based DC Land Trust. They need new and additional domestic resorts. ROFR and foreclosures will never be enough to feed the sales machine.

Marriott Vacations Worldwide is actively trying to sell off land in Orlando and I also beleive land in Palm Desert. It doesn't seem like they are looking to add new domestic locations. Edit: Other than Waikiki mentioned above.

 

[Norcal5]

Based on their point sales this year they should be able to add much needed beach resorts on the California central coast and in or near San Diego.

 

[jme]

I would love to see a resort (or up to three) added in the southeast---specifically in the northern part of Florida near Jacksonville or St. Augustine,
another option mid-state, and a third option nearer the southern part of Florida.
With the unbelievable popularity of Marriott east coast resorts already (Myrtle Beach's OceanWatch, the 8 resorts at Hilton Head,
Beach Place Towers, and Ocean Pointe------and excluding Orlando resorts because they're not on the beach),
I believe another two or three would be successful.
Occasional hurricane vulnerability, yes, so there's a lot to consider, but most of the existing ones stay near 100% occupancy in prime seasons.
And the trust could use more inventory for southern beach locations, and that might be an instant fix by owning a larger % of those nights.

 

[rthib]

Just to give you an idea of how much inventory they could have.
If I just look at the White week (Desert, hottest time) at Shadow Ridge I-Village. There are 427 units and 8 white weeks.
I am too lazy to look up so to keep the math simple assume each of those is worth 1000 points.
That means just those junk weeks are worth 3.4 Million points. So they should have plenty of inventory to keep selling.

 

[jwalk03]

I would love to see a resort (or up to three) added in the southeast---specifically in the northern part of Florida near Jacksonville or St. Augustine,
another option mid-state, and a third option nearer the southern part of Florida.
With the unbelievable popularity of Marriott east coast resorts already (Myrtle Beach's OceanWatch, the 8 resorts at Hilton Head,
Beach Place Towers, and Ocean Pointe------and excluding Orlando resorts because they're not on the beach),
I believe another two or three would be successful.
Occasional hurricane vulnerability, yes, so there's a lot to consider, but most of the existing ones stay near 100% occupancy in prime seasons.
And the trust could use more inventory for southern beach locations, and that might be an instant fix by owning a larger % of those nights.

There are certainly locations where adding a resort makes sense and could be successful. I would add a true beachfront resort in the panhandle as well- like in Destin. Or something on the gulf coast, where there is only Marco Island currently. There is plenty of beachfront from Naples up to Clearwater.

It has also always struck me as very odd to not have a Marriott resort in the Smoky Mountains. Basically every other timeshare system has resorts there, and it certainly has broad seasonal appeal. People go Spring, Summer, Fall, Christmas/New Years. Maybe Jan/Feb would be pretty dead, but that's true in many other locations as well.

 

[Dean]

I would love to see a resort (or up to three) added in the southeast---specifically in the northern part of Florida near Jacksonville or St. Augustine,
another option mid-state, and a third option nearer the southern part of Florida.
With the unbelievable popularity of Marriott east coast resorts already (Myrtle Beach's OceanWatch, the 8 resorts at Hilton Head,
Beach Place Towers, and Ocean Pointe------and excluding Orlando resorts because they're not on the beach),
I believe another two or three would be successful.
Occasional hurricane vulnerability, yes, so there's a lot to consider, but most of the existing ones stay near 100% occupancy in prime seasons.
And the trust could use more inventory for southern beach locations, and that might be an instant fix by owning a larger % of those nights.

North Atlantic like Daytona, St. Augustine, J'ville Beaches; a good beach resort near Desin, PCP or even better, 30A. Key West, St. Pete Beach or similar and even in historic areas like St. Augustine, Savannah & Charleston. But the reality is they want something they can get for a good price and make lots of money on so it's a balance and the best locations tend to not be cheap. That's why we have Barony & Surfwatch that are more out and away from the usual main areas. There are other parts of the country where similar options and locations exist, Texas comes to mind. Plus good Canadian locations among many potential options.