Marriott Vacation Club Announces Points Program

[BocaBum99]

If the point system works like the others I don't think you will find it more difficult to traded from Gold to Platinum. It will just involve using more points than your gold week is worth to reserve a Platinum week. I think that it may be easier to get what you want with the exception of the current Plat. Plus weeks. You will just have to borrow future points or own multiple weeks to have the required points.

Floyd,

I agree with you. In a points system, everyone has access to everything available. What varies is price in terms of points.

What I was referring to is that it will probably become more difficult for fixed/floating week owners to trade up from Gold to Platinum through II especially since those weeks may be reserved for internal exchanges first. If you are not a points member, you may not be eligible for internal exchange.

 

[mj2vacation]

from a very well placed source (not a sales rep), there is absolutely no plan to touch the system in the US (other than the two resorts mentioned).

That being said, the only thing constant is change.

 

[BocaBum99]

from a very well placed source (not a sales rep), there is absolutely no plan to touch the system in the US (other than the two resorts mentioned).

That being said, the only thing constant is change.

That's the answer to every unannounced activity within any company even if they do have the intention of doing it.

ex: We have no plan for further force reductions at this time.

 

[PerryM]

The real reason

Bronze weeks is much harder to sell than Silver weeks.

Silver is much harder to sell than Gold.

Gold is much harder to sell than Platinum

Platinum is much harder to sell than Platinum Plus.

The above is why Marriott is interested in a Point system – it will make selling the hardest to sell weeks much easier.

I can just hear the Marriott salesrep:

“I know we sold out of Platinum and Platinum Plus but Bronze is just as good – if you buy several of them”

“Sure you’ll be making multiple maintenance fees – but you don’t have to put up the money for a Platinum or finance it at that level”…..”Pay cash for a Gold or Silver week and get several and you can use Platinum season too”.

The first weeks to sell out are Platinum Plus fixed holiday weeks and the last to sell out are Silver and lower. Marriott will now be able to sell out ALL weeks much faster.

 

[BocaBum99]

Re: The real reason

Bronze weeks is much harder to sell than Silver weeks.

Silver is much harder to sell than Gold.

Gold is much harder to sell than Platinum

Platinum is much harder to sell than Platinum Plus.

The above is why Marriott is interested in a Point system – it will make selling the hardest to sell weeks much easier.

I can just hear the Marriott salesrep:

“I know we sold out of Platinum and Platinum Plus but Bronze is just as good – if you buy several of them”

“Sure you’ll be making multiple maintenance fees – but you don’t have to put up the money for a Platinum or finance it at that level”…..”Pay cash for a Gold or Silver week and get several and you can use Platinum season too”.

The first weeks to sell our are Platinum Plus fixed holiday weeks and the last to sell out are Silver and lower. Marriott will now be able to sell out ALL weeks much faster.

Perry,

It's unlikely that Marriott will introduce a UDI system of points. In that scenario, the maintenance fee per point is the same for all point sizes and therefore you can mix and match the deeds you want to achieve the point values you want.

Marriott will probably be more like Hyatt and HGVC where the MF/point for bronze weeks is very high relative to Platinum weeks. So, this will discourage hoarding of Bronze weeks for use at Platinum intervals for trade ups.

 

[PerryM]

It's all about the sale

BB,

Well, I view all developer decisions from the sales rep’s point of view – what ever makes them generate more sales is the correct answer. The owner if far down on the list of priorities.

The system I’ve described would make the Silver weeks fly out the door – a very desirable outcome for Marriott. If Marriott can cut maybe 2 years off the normal 5 year sell cycle that means more resorts can be built at an ever faster rate.

Marriott salesreps are NO LONGER selling ownership at their single resort in a single season but ALL Marriotts for ALL seasons. I’m sure clever salesreps will quickly determine the cost/Point and plug the advantages of buying from their Marriott resort over all the rest.

Points are points and if the Silver owner pays 3 times as much in MFs I don’t think Marriott will mind a second, neither will the owners.

Will the Platinum owner feel the pinch from the Silver owners – they might, but I don’t think that bothers Marriott and the Platinum owner can still rent his reserved weeks out (Or II exchange) with much less competition from other Platinum owners who really want to use another Marriott location and will gladly deposit their units.

Hopefully Marriott will introduce a way to alleviate the current fiasco of making high demand reservations. A few methods which would go hat-in-hand with this system might be:

• Lottery
• Sealed bid Auction
• Holiday bidding system

My favorite is the Holiday bidding system (Used by a number of Destination Clubs) – it costs no more in points and allows owners tremendous options for their holiday reservations:

Each year each owner gets 100 “Holiday credits” and you get to “bid” on holiday weeks at ALL Marriotts. If you own several Platinum weeks at Orlando and want to spend Week 52 at Maui (and have the points to do it) then you might bid all 100 points for Week 52 at Maui.

If you win your holiday credits (and points) are deducted from your account. If you don’t get your desired week then those credits roll forward to next year so you would have 200 credits to bid. Now you might bid 125 credits for Maui and 50 for some other holiday week and 25 from another. Or, bid 300 Holiday credits on 1 week (100 Holiday credits borrowed from next year's allocation).

Even with this system you can “bank” holiday credits forward and “borrow” from next years credits.

Gone are the maddening phone calls and internet clicks exactly at 8 AM CST to try to get a hot holiday week - a VERY desirable outcome for Marriott.

P.S.
When Holiday bidding ends the computer sorts the bids and awards reservations based upon the highest number bid and the timestamp is used for ties.

 

[floyddl]

from a very well placed source (not a sales rep), there is absolutely no plan to touch the system in the US (other than the two resorts mentioned).

That being said, the only thing constant is change.

It seems that they have already touched the system in the US by converting from weeks sales to points sales at Las Vegas and Oahu. Thailand fits the asian market but selling US based resorts in their new points system affect the current weeks inventory.

Do they really expect people to believe that there will not be additional conversions at other existing and new resorts? Marriott is into growth and profitability and the points system will be expanded.

 

[BocaBum99]

It seems that they have already touched the system in the US by converting from weeks sales to points sales at Las Vegas and Oahu. Thailand fits the asian market but selling US based resorts in their new points system affect the current weeks inventory.

Do they really expect people to believe that there will not be additional conversions at other existing and new resorts? Marriott is into growth and profitability and the points system will be expanded.

I agree. If the points product is successful in this market trial, I have no doubt that Marriott will expand it to the rest of MVCI. The key question will be what will be the stick and carrott they offer owners to convert. If owners don't convert their weeks into points, then the point system is not valuable.

 

[Dave M]

It seems that they have already touched the system in the US by converting from weeks sales to points sales at Las Vegas and Oahu.

Your statement makes it appear that all future sales at these two resorts will be on a points basis. That's not what will happen. Those two resorts will make some weeks available to the new points system but will still be selling traditional weeks.

 

[MikeM132]

I just bought at one of these resorts (Ko'Olina) and pretty much think it's a good idea Marriott is trying something new. They might benefit from this, but I see that I might, too. I guess time will tell. I am not going to worry about it this early.
We liked the DVC points thing, so maybe this will be similar. The main thing causing us not to buy DVC was that expiring right-to-use "deed" and their very limited number of resorts mostly in Orlando. Otherwise, I liked the flexible points system.

 

[floyddl]

Your statement makes it appear that all future sales at these two resorts will be on a points basis. That's not what will happen. Those two resorts will make some weeks available to the new points system but will still be selling traditional weeks.

I did not mean to imply that all future sales would be points. But you cannot say there has been no impact as weeks there were to be sold as weeks usage are no longer in the pool of available rooms for possible trades thru II for weeks owners that are trying to get there.

 

[Dave M]

I agree.

That might be a good thing for weeks owners (such as myself) at Grand Chateau or at Ko Olina. A smaller pool of weeks at those resorts deposited with II might well mean higher exchange value for those weeks.

 

[floyddl]

I agree.

That might be a good thing for weeks owners (such as myself) at Grand Chateau or at Ko Olina. A smaller pool of weeks at those resorts deposited with II might well mean higher exchange value for those weeks.

Very true, may be good for existing owners but not so good for people who want to trade-in.

 

[jerseyfinn]

. . . speculation ir premature, but . . . .

. . . Do they really expect people to believe that there will not be additional conversions at other existing and new resorts? Marriott is into growth and profitability and the points system will be expanded. . .

Marriott will do precisely what Marriott wants to do. That's the reality of the inertia that MVC has created with a lot of hard work, MONEY, planning, and initiative as they've developed their TS product over the years ( and to the benefit of the majority of folks who own ). As Bocabum suggests, the real question is how and what Marriott will do to get owners to buy into the "vision". But if it's out there, it's there for a bigger reason -- either a long term plan, or simply just a trial balloon like those flown by so many presidential hopefuls every four years.

All I know is that years ago, I and lots of other folks sit down and learn how MVC program dynamics work and we make purchase decisions according to the game board that Marriott and II gives us to play on. I'm certainly not too old to change, but neither do I feel compelled to change just because Marriott says its the best thing since buttered bread.

Perry outlines a lot of ideas and what ifs, and I've got to chew upon them to determine what it might really mean to me. But when I've got sit down and do calculations which look and feel like the IRS tax code, then I'm naturally reluctant when both the government and Marriott say "trust me".

As noted, sales is always about their bottom line. Occassionally, the interests of the buyer also coincide with sale's interests and we get to go along for the ride, but only as an afterthought.

It will be interesting to see how this seemingly innocuous "limited" experiment proceeds.

Barry

 

[hipslo]

I have been reading this thread concerning various takes on a points system, what it means, how likely it is, implications, etc. I am concerned about what sort of adverse impact this could have on someone in my situation, if it were to be expanded more universally. Perhaps I am needlessly concerned? Looking for advice/ input.

Here is my situation. I currently own three platinum weeks at Mountainside, and am under contract to purchase an off season week elsewhere, making a total of four weeks. My strategy is to use the four weeks to make consecutive reservations 13 months prior to the first week, effectively letting me reserve the one week I actually plan on using at Mountainside 14 months in advance. I intend to rent out the other three weeks. Years from now, if and when I am in a position to retire, or at least work less and vacation more, I would like to spend 3 consecutive weeks at Mountainside (maybe more, even, if I find and purchase additional platinum resale weeks in the interim).

So, if there were a move to a points system, any sense of what sort of an impact it might have on me? I have no interest in or need to trade, my only concerns are ability to reserve the weeks I need, and, for the forseeable future, rent them out. Could I be forced into some system that works in some way that would be less advantageous to me than the current system? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

 

[timeos2]

So, if there were a move to a points system, any sense of what sort of an impact it might have on me? I have no interest in or need to trade, my only concerns are ability to reserve the weeks I need, and, for the forseeable future, rent them out. Could I be forced into some system that works in some way that would be less advantageous to me than the current system? Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Shouldn't have any impact on your desired use plan at all.

 

[JimC]

I find this interesting. When we bought into MVCI we were already Disney Vacation Club members. The Disney points system has worked very well for us. I look forward to seeing how Marriott proceeds with this initiative.

 

[jancurious]

This is a great thread. I am really enjoying learning more about how the points programs with the other hotel chains seem to work.

I think all of us are looking at why we bought the Marriott weeks that we bought, and how this may affect us sometime in the future.

It seems if you are into renting your units, it shouldn’t impact you. If you want to use the weeks you have purchased at your home resort, it shouldn’t impact you. The only impact I have heard so far is exchanging. It probably won’t impact you if you are trading a platinum unit but the lower units probably won’t do as well as they have in the past. However, I know with Hyatt, they determine which week & resort to deposit on your behalf so if Marriott followed this pattern, it could affect all trading (outside of Marriott probably).

I guess we are back to the axiom I was told here before I purchased my first timeshare – buy where you want to go most years & you will never regret your purchase.

All of this is assuming that Marriott eventually expands the points beyond the three resorts they have announced so far.

Jan

 

[iamnotshopgirl]

I find this thread interesting too. I do not know much about point programs and have looked at Disney on occassion to see what value a point is on the resale market but never delved into the programs details. MVCI may or may not go to a point system in the future (other than the resorts stated above) but this gives me time to read up and educate myself about a "point" system pro and con so if MVCI makes change and owners are given a chance to choose I can make an informed decision.Great thread...hope to see more on this topic.

bob

 

[jerseyfinn]

FWIW,

Timeshare Today magazine has run lots of letters and articles from RCI folks regarding the point system that RCI has implemented. It sounds as if there's a lot controversay about the value of the RCI points as well as what RCI does with the inventory-- and two large class action law suits have followed.

I personally know nothing about RCI since we don't have any involvement with it. We've met RCI owners in the past who have talked about the point system. One couple liked it, the other didn't. None of this says anything one way or the other.

This does not suggest that the Marriott implementation will look or act anything like this. I do suggest following the RCI board and other sources for examples of various point systems and their implementation/function.

The waters can be both murkey and warm and inviting.

Barry

 

[PerryM]

What NOT to do!

RCI is twice as large as all the rest of the exchange companies combined. When companies have little competition to worry about, they get sloppy and don’t seem to care what the outcome of their actions is. That’s exactly when they are most vulnerable and subject to a kick in the pants to wake them up.

If you could make a list of every wrong decision, bone-headed decision, stupid decision, RCI Points fits that bill to a Tee. Their implementation of Points was and is terrible. From the half-baked generic calendars to the gouging of HOAs and developers charging thousands of dollars for a weeks-to-points conversion when it costs just $199 – RCI Points will some day be a case study of bungling, insane management in a monopoly environment that MBA students will snicker at for generations to come.

I would not assume that II or Marriott would implement a Point based system the same way – if they implement one at all. Done properly a Point system will add much value to their customers and increase the demand for their product/service.

Will Marriott learn from the mistakes of RCI Points – I sure hope so. I would hope that Marriott had one of those huge corkboards titled “Don’t do this!” and describe the RCI Point system in detail. With one exception, RCI screwed up every major part of a Point system. Oh, the part they got right was the name “RCI Points” – that’s about it.

To me, there is no comparison to a week system to a point system in terms of flexibility, which I believe is desired after the first couple of uses of a timeshare.

It’s funny but I think, on the opposite side of the spectrum is the Fixed Week in a Fixed Condo, is a winner too. Marriott’s new tower in Maui sells this and if you add a Point system on top of it you have the ultimate in timeshare usage – at least to me.

 

[Steve]

Hyatt

It’s funny but I think, on the opposite side of the spectrum is the Fixed Week in a Fixed Condo, is a winner too. Marriott’s new tower in Maui sells this and if you add a Point system on top of it you have the ultimate in timeshare usage – at least to me.

Perry, you've just described the Hyatt Vacation Club. Hyatt owners own a fixed week, fixed unit...with a points overlay for exchanging. I'm not an owner at Hyatt yet, but their system has some great aspects to it.

Steve

 

[ciscogizmo1]

Re: Hyatt

Perry, you've just described the Hyatt Vacation Club. Hyatt owners own a fixed week, fixed unit...with a points overlay for exchanging. I'm not an owner at Hyatt yet, but their system has some great aspects to it.

Steve

I think these programs are great if they start out that way. The way I look at it if Marriott tries to convert from weeks to points they are just going to have a lot of problems. You can never make everyone happy. How would Marriott change the program from a floating week program to a fixed week, fixed unit with points overlay for exchanging. That's where I think the problem will lie. Most Marriott owners do not own a fixed week. We all own floating weeks. I don't know of anyone in Marriott that owns a fixed unit. What is everyone stuck with the week that was deeded to them? And, the unit that was deeded to them?

 

[floyddl]

There is no good way to convert to fixed weeks and units from floating. I don't see that happening. What would likely happen is that Marriott would allow you to convert from the current floating and fixed weeks (without fixed units) to an equivalent point value based upon the type of week (season and location) you own.

The new points program would come with added flexibility and new features that would allow Marriott to charge current owners an upgrade fee to convert to points. People who choose not to convert would eventually become a minority of the membership which would impact trading ability and possibly other features that they currently enjoy.

 

[PerryM]

Marriott would do it right

I personally don’t think Marriott needs to do anything but introduce a fantastic Points Program and “they will come” and use it – if designed correctly.

If Marriott introduces a dynamite Point system that the salesreps throw parties for – this is all that is needed. Sales from that moment on would be geared towards Points usage and I’m sure Marriott would hold first class traveling shows in the top 50 cities that would encourage Marriott owners to learn all about Points. Points should be absolutely free to all Marriott owners.

I’m not sure that Marriott would even make a distinction between developer sales and resales – if the Point system is that good.

However, if Marriott raids the RCI Points management team and implements "rci da Points program", then yes carrots and sticks must be used to beat compliance with Marriott owners. I just can’t imagine Marriott doing anything but a first class job.

I can’t see implementing a fixed week, fixed condo in Points. I would hope that from now on Marriott offers a fixed week and condo option for a 20% premium at all new resorts. (Holiday weeks would just have the 20% option for a fixed condo).