Marriott Vacation Club Announces Points Program

[floyddl]

Breaking News:

ORLANDO, Fla., July 27 /PRNewswire/ -- Marriott Vacation Club International (MVCI), the recognized worldwide leader in the vacation ownership industry and a division of Marriott International, Inc. (NYSE: MAR - News), today announced its continued growth into Asia with the opening of its Asia Pacific Regional headquarters in Singapore. As the first major branded hospitality company in the Asian timeshare market, MVCI brings more than 22 years of experience to consumers in this region.
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MVCI Asia Pacific will introduce a new Club Points product uniquely tailored to the vacationing habits of consumers in Asia. The program offers flexibility of use such as duration of stay, accommodation size and location at Club resorts in addition to exchange at MVCI resorts around the world.

"The development of Marriott's Phuket Beach Club in 2001 was just the beginning of our long-range plans for the Asia Pacific region. We have recognized for quite some time that while timeshare is booming elsewhere in the world, Asia is still a relatively untapped market. I am excited about the opportunities that are upon us to offer exceptional vacation experiences to consumers in Asia," said Steve Weisz, president, Marriott Vacation Club International.

The regional Asia Pacific team based in Singapore is lead by Harold Derrah, senior vice president and managing director, MVCI Asia Pacific.

MVCI will continue to develop its core product of deeded or right-to-use vacation ownership resorts in addition to the points-based product for consumers in Asia. Current Asia Pacific plans include developing properties across the region, and utilizing inventory at the existing Marriott's Phuket Beach Club. Marriott's Grand Chateau in Las Vegas, and Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club, Oahu, Hawaii will also provide inventory to the Club Points product.

Since 1984, Marriott Vacation Club International has been the recognized worldwide leader in vacation ownership with a program highly regarded for its quality and unique flexibility. MVCI currently has over 8,000 timeshare villas worldwide and nearly 312,000 owners own their vacations "The Marriott Way," offering options to exchange within the MVCI portfolio, trade for Marriott Rewards points, exchange within Interval International's global system of 2,000 resorts in 75 countries or rent their week(s). Please visit http://www.vacationclub.com.

MARRIOTT INTERNATIONAL, INC. (NYSE: MAR - News) is a leading lodging company with over 2,800 lodging properties in the United States and 67 other countries and territories. For more information visit http://www.marriott.com.

 

[bwenzel]

Interesting. When we were at Grande Vista in mid July we took the sales tour and the sales rep said that Marriott would absolutely be looking to expand heavily over the next few years having already hired directors and management for the Asian operations, but he said nothing about a points program. I wonder how this will work and when we will be sent information about the program.

 

[timeos2]

If it takes off and grows to include all the Marriott resorts bye bye II as even a pretender on the weeks exchange business.

 

[floyddl]

I don't think it would necessarily be the end of II for weeks exchanges. Hilton has a points program and still uses RCI to offer exchanges. You would just use an equivalent number of points for a week which Marriott would give II a week in return for the exchange. It would however eliminate the internal exchanges as you would just call at the designated times and reserve a resort for the appropriate number of points.

I personally like the flexibility of the points program at Hilton better than the Marriott program but you still have to own fixed weeks to go at high demand times.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

I don't think it would necessarily be the end of II for weeks exchanges. Hilton has a points program and still uses RCI to offer exchanges. You would just use an equivalent number of points for a week which Marriott would give II a week in return for the exchange. It would however eliminate the internal exchanges as you would just call at the designated times and reserve a resort for the appropriate number of points.

I personally like the flexibility of the points program at Hilton better than the Marriott program but you still have to own fixed weeks to go at high demand times.

However, don't you think they should give owners priority at where they bought to reserve first. I don't know enough details about how Marriott is going to run their point program to make a decision yet on whether I would like it or not. Yes, it would definitely be nice to reserve the days you want to stay.

However, I do see some problems. For example, on Disney points if they don't fill the unit which happens a lot because people become cheap with their points for weekend stays they can rent out the unit. Would Marriott be able to do that with deeded properties? Or would the unit sit empty for the week? If Marriott does follow this route they really, really need to think it out.... I don't want to lose my priority at my home resort.

 

[floyddl]

However, don't you think they should give owners priority at where they bought to reserve first. I don't know enough details about how Marriott is going to run their point program to make a decision yet on whether I would like it or not. Yes, it would definitely be nice to reserve the days you want to stay.

Yes, the way Hilton does it owners reserve their home resorts in their owned season starting 12 months out till 9 months out. At 9 months unreserved inventory is available to any owner in the system. At 30 days any unreserved nights can be rented by owners at a deeply discounted rate.

I suspect that this initial points club will be expanded and eventually deeded week owners will be presented the option to convert to the points program for some upgrade fee. Another opportunity for Marriott to create additional revenue from the existing ownership. This could be an issue for people who are frequent traders. If the number of weekly stay units are diminished by conversion to points it will become more difficult to get trades.

 

[timeos2]

Yes, the way Hilton does it owners reserve their home resorts in their owned season starting 12 months out till 9 months out. At 9 months unreserved inventory is available to any owner in the system. At 30 days any unreserved nights can be rented by owners at a deeply discounted rate.

I suspect that this initial points club will be expanded and eventually deeded week owners will be presented the option to convert to the points program for some upgrade fee. Another opportunity for Marriott to create additional revenue from the existing ownership. This could be an issue for people who are frequent traders. If the number of weekly stay units are diminished by conversion to points it will become more difficult to get trades.

That is the way most points based systems work. Hopefully Marriott will let the owners keep the deeded weeks but place them into the points system. If they ask you to give up your deed it isn't a very attractive option.

To see what happens when a resort group moves to an internal points based trade look at Fairfield - they are about 85% converted after 15 years - Sunterra - much less - I've heard its around 35% after 7 years and of course RCI with maybe 15% converted after 4 years. What happens in every case is the number of units available to weeks owners for trade takes an immediate hit as the early adopters withdraw their units. Then the slow transistion follows as more and more convert over time. Even at 30% the pool of exchange for weeks can be slim pickings as many of the remaining 70% might be more prone to use rather than deposit their time. The active traders that deposit the bulk of the available use times tend to move to points if the system is attractive enough. The FF owners that stuck with weeks find very little to trade to now although they still have the ability to use RCI weeks as long as that system remains viable. The RCI weeks system is also in transistion to points so eventually the FF weeks owners will be limited to little more than trades between each other.

 

[ZCar]

cisco ...,
Just e-mailed our Sales Exec with similar questions to yours. I really don't expect an answer for a while, as correct info may take a while to filter down.
(As usual, lots of mis-info will be coming along also).
This was due to owning at Ko'Olina, one of the resorts mentioned as being part of the new points system.

Keep in mind that only three existing Resorts, Phuket, Grand Chateau and Ko'Olina, are mentioned at being part of the point system ... at this time. It may take several years for the point system to become universal, if in fact it ever does. I'm a weeks fan.

 

[ciscogizmo1]

cisco ...,
Just e-mailed our Sales Exec with similar questions to yours. I really don't expect an answer for a while, as correct info may take a while to filter down.
(As usual, lots of mis-info will be coming along also).
This was due to owning at Ko'Olina, one of the resorts mentioned as being part of the new points system.

Keep in mind that only three existing Resorts, Phuket, Grand Chateau and Ko'Olina, are mentioned at being part of the point system ... at this time. It may take several years for the point system to become universal, if in fact it ever does. I'm a weeks fan.

I agree, I think a lot of people are jumping the gun on this issue. Let us know what your sales exec says about the points systems. I'd be curious.

As of right now everything is speculation which is why I don't have an opinion.

 

[pwrshift]

But what if the platinum Maui is worth 5x the points a Manor Club platinum gets? Right now, you deposit and hope for a week anywhere in the system, but you don't want to think you have to deposit your week 5 times to earn enough points to get Maui.

Brian

 

[ZCar]

Why are people speculating, when no one knows anything more than the announcement? No mention anywhere of all resorts, just those three.

 

[Steve]

The way I read Marriott's announcement, there won't be any impact to current...and future...deeded owners at Ko'Olina, Grand Chateau and Phuket. It sounds to me like Marriott is planning to sell some of the inventory of unsold villas at these three resorts to their new points club for use by the new club owners.

In other words, instead of Mr & Mrs X buying the week...Marriott's new points club will buy the week from MVCI and put it into the new points system. It sounds like they are going to sell just a portion of the remaining inventory...which means that MVCI will continue to sell floating deeded weeks at these resorts just as they have been doing. So, instead of (for example) 600 villas at Ko'Olina which are all owned by individual deeded owners at build out...now there will be (again, for example) 550 villas owned by individual deeded owners and 50 villas which will be owned by the new Marriott points entity.

I really don't think this is cause for any concern at all.

Steve

 

[wuv pooh]

The way I read Marriott's announcement, there won't be any impact to current...and future...deeded owners at Ko'Olina, Grand Chateau and Phuket. It sounds to me like Marriott is planning to sell some of the inventory of unsold villas at these three resorts to their new points club for use by the new club owners.

I really don't think this is cause for any concern at all.

Steve

Agreed. Think about it. They are marketing to Asia:

1. Hawaii is huge for Japanese buyers - Ko Olina
2. Gambling is huge for Chinese buyers - Grand Chateau

Think of the marketing: Buy now and you will get xxx,xxx Marriott reward points. That is enough for 2 first class tickets to the US. You can use your timeshare for 4 nights in Hawaii and 3 nights in Vegas. Then go to NYC and Washington DC and stay at a hotel on points. The trip of a lifetime for a mere 220,000 yuan

I see it as a test case. They will learn how to sell it, manage it, and see what issues develop. Then, if they want to expand into the whole system they will have a lot better result, or they may learn that they don't want a points system after all.

 

[jerseyfinn]

Steve,

Might this partial move towards points suggest that Hawaii or Vegas sales are not as robust as originally projected, and this coupled with the SARS and tsunami crisis which dink Asian economoic and resort growth is forcing a Marriott rethink as they try to retool a portion of the product to jumpstart another regional sales demographic? I simply don't like this hybridization of the MVCI product line. It's not as distinct as Grand Residence or Tahoe for example.

As things stand now, we MVCI owners already have good alternatives ( occupy/trade/rent/MR points ) as well as a leg up with II from the 20 day Marriott rule. Throw in the bonus weeks one can sometimes obtain, and I'm really not interested in yet another points option nor do I want to compete against it.

I agree that there really is no issue to worry about at the moment. But the door is now ajar, and we've got to keep an eye on another part of the house lest the wind blow in. Did Marriott even need to open that door?

Barry

 

[littlestar]

The way I read Marriott's announcement, there won't be any impact to current...and future...deeded owners at Ko'Olina, Grand Chateau and Phuket. It sounds to me like Marriott is planning to sell some of the inventory of unsold villas at these three resorts to their new points club for use by the new club owners.

In other words, instead of Mr & Mrs X buying the week...Marriott's new points club will buy the week from MVCI and put it into the new points system. It sounds like they are going to sell just a portion of the remaining inventory...which means that MVCI will continue to sell floating deeded weeks at these resorts just as they have been doing. So, instead of (for example) 600 villas at Ko'Olina which are all owned by individual deeded owners at build out...now there will be (again, for example) 550 villas owned by individual deeded owners and 50 villas which will be owned by the new Marriott points entity.

I really don't think this is cause for any concern at all.

Steve

That makes a lot of sense, Steve. There have been some "what if" discussions on the Dis boards about Disney linking up with Marriott's Ko Olina resort for some points inventory for members in Hawaii without Disney having to develop a property there. I think the Adventures by Disney on Oahu are at Ko Olina (in the hotel part I believe). I wonder if there could be partnerships between different resort groups for points in the future?

 

[Beverley]

Barry,

I am sooo with you on this. I do not want Marriott to go to a points based system for any of my deeded weeks. I liked the idea of deeded weeks. I also do not relish my trade power or flexibility being reduced, and it will be if they go to all points beyond what they are planning with Asia. Currently, I have been sucessful trading into to platinum seasons with some of my gold weeks. Many others have also had this type of success. With a points based system, I imagine we would get less than a week in order to go from a "lower" season to a "higher" season.

One of my pet pieves is the nonsensical determination of platinum/ gold seasons in Florida. Specifically, summer being gold for Ocean Point but Platinum for Beach Place. My thoughts this was a function of trying to make the Florida Club work. I buy summer because I can travel then. This is weather it is gold or platinum ...

If I want a point system, I'll buy one, as I did with World Mark. I, personally, do not want any conversion. Thanks all for allowing me my "soap box"

Beverley

 

[jerseyfinn]

Beverley,

We're absolutely satisfied owners of MVCI and how it works for us. But I've grown a bit leery of a few things that Marriott does recently, including the new points announcement. None of these changes alone signals anything big or forboding is on the horizon. But it does give me pause to watch Marriott more closely, especially after the recental rental fiasco.

The change in the rental program was a plain and simple stealth move to get rid of an admittedly cumbersome rental program ( to Marriott ) as well as a naked grab for money as Marriott raises the Marriott.com prices for the weeks you give them to rent while actually giving you less money for your week. Granted, only 5% of owners utilize this rental program, but I was toasted when MVC insists that it was because of owner feedback that they change the program. Call it what it is -- a money grab! I was most surprised that after writing a polite, but succinct letter to Mr. Wadjka, I never receive a reply. I've lost some of my confidence in Marriott.

Although nominally announced as a limited and specific program for 3 MVCI resorts, no one can say definitively which way this new points thing could go in the long run. Remember, there's a little clause in our purchase contracts conceding that Mariott can change/alter/drop the program at any time. Seems unlikely when we purchase, but nothing is etched in stone here.

Quality, value, and flexibility are why we purchase MVCI and I keep my eyes open whenever changes are made which could impact these variables. Change is of course inevitible, and not all change is bad. But this points scheme represents a fundamental change in vision which is presently being explained as a dedicated regional program which will not affect present owners. I certainly hope that it stays that way.

As you point out, we already live with "quirks" in the MVC system such as puzzeling season designations between some resorts, the annual cost of a Florida Club program with no opt-out that less than half of the folks use ( at least at Ocean Pointe ), the rental program change, and now this new "regional" points system.

We need only keep enjoying our resorts for now, but we should keep our eyes open for fundamental changes which might in time, significantly alter the character of the program for all of us. If I wanted an RCI-type program, I would have bought into that system. Let's hope MVC keeps it that way 5 years from now and beyond.

Barry

 

[camachinist]

But I've grown a bit leery of a few things that Marriott does recently, including the new points announcement. None of these changes alone signals anything big or forboding is on the horizon. But it does give me pause to watch Marriott more closely, especially after the recental rental fiasco.

I'm already planning our exit strategy....

If things keep going the way they are, both with the logistics you mention as well as the crazy price appreciation, I'll be looking to turn our units into a nice retirement lot somewhere in about 2009...

A Marriott internal exchange program I like. Points? Nuh uh...I've seen what Marriott does to MRP's..

Pat

 

[ArtsieAng]

I would not object to Marriott having a "point system" similar to SVO. In fact, I would like it very much.

 

[PerryM]

We would become Marriott owners again!

If Marriott installed a Point based system “on top” of their existing deeded/RTU week system we probably would become Marriott owners once again. Why? Because we would not be able to get into the Marriotts with our WM credits anymore – there would be few Marriotts in II.

I’ve explained how a Point based system would fit nicely “on top” of the existing week system before, I’ll recap (This is NOT Marriott Reward points):

Each Marriott owner would have a new Points account that initially contained zero points. If you want to use the point program, you would look up your season at your resort and exchange your season usage for a fixed number of points. You would NOT be allowed to lock in a juicy week a generic point value would be deposited for you. E.g. you own Platinum at Summit Watch and 4,620 points would be deposited into your account.

Why 4,620 Points? Marriott charges $660 rent per night at Summit Watch during Platinum season * 7 nights = 4,620. To make the system fair, points are assigned to rental values.

Since we really own a Gold Summit Watch, we would receive $289 (Rental rate)/nite * 7 nites = 2,023 points. Lets say that I “roll forward” 2006 usage to next year and in 2007 “borrow” 2,023 points from 2008 to combine with 2007 usage of 2,023 next year I’ve got 6,069 points which would get me a Platinum week at Summit Watch from 3 years worth of my Gold Summit Watch! We ski Platinum with our Gold and have 6,069 – 4,620 or 1,449 Points left over to use or combine for future vacations.

This is why we would buy Marriott’s again – usage would be deposited into the Point system and ONLY folks who wish to exchange in II would deposit a reserved week into II. Since few Marriotts are deposited their trading power skyrockets and our WM will never “see” them again – only Four Seasons and stellar exchangers get Marriotts.

None of this needs the approval of any HOA, and does not violate any existing rules.

Marriott would not make any distinction between Marriott sales and resales in this system.

 

[floyddl]

Everyone should realize that Marriott is not going to maintain this Point program in Asia with 3 resorts. They chose the 3 most popular ones with people from Asia but to grow it they will need to offer more. They will have to either incent people to convert from weeks to points or offer a means to give up weeks to be used in the points program.

Say what you will about not having reason for concern, but I see a point program that will eventually mean changes that will be good for some but mostly for the new buyers that sign up in the points program. Current owners with floating time could find that to get maximum benefit from the program they need to convert to the points program.

Just my opinion.

 

[BocaBum99]

I don't own a Marriott. But, if they design it well, I'll buy into it.

 

[short]

I don't own a Marriott. But, if they design it well, I'll buy into it.

Same here.

Short

 

[BocaBum99]

Barry,

I am sooo with you on this. I do not want Marriott to go to a points based system for any of my deeded weeks. I liked the idea of deeded weeks. I also do not relish my trade power or flexibility being reduced, and it will be if they go to all points beyond what they are planning with Asia. Currently, I have been sucessful trading into to platinum seasons with some of my gold weeks. Many others have also had this type of success. With a points based system, I imagine we would get less than a week in order to go from a "lower" season to a "higher" season.

One of my pet pieves is the nonsensical determination of platinum/ gold seasons in Florida. Specifically, summer being gold for Ocean Point but Platinum for Beach Place. My thoughts this was a function of trying to make the Florida Club work. I buy summer because I can travel then. This is weather it is gold or platinum ...

If I want a point system, I'll buy one, as I did with World Mark. I, personally, do not want any conversion. Thanks all for allowing me my "soap box"

Beverley

Marriott cannot force you to convert your deeded week into points. They can only provide you an incentive to do so. If it works like Hyatt's program, you won't lose any benefits, only gain them.

What Marriott can do is make it more difficult for you to trade from Gold to Platinum, though. After all, you didn't buy that aspect of exchanging. It just came along with II. I suspect point owners will now get those benefits.

Also, new resorts may become exclusively points based. Marriott can't force you to upgrade, but they can make it so that you need to do so in order to get access to what's new. I would be surprised if they didn't do this.

 

[floyddl]

What Marriott can do is make it more difficult for you to trade from Gold to Platinum, though. After all, you didn't buy that aspect of exchanging. It just came along with II. I suspect point owners will now get those benefits.

If the point system works like the others I don't think you will find it more difficult to traded from Gold to Platinum. It will just involve using more points than your gold week is worth to reserve a Platinum week. I think that it may be easier to get what you want with the exception of the current Plat. Plus weeks. You will just have to borrow future points or own multiple weeks to have the required points.