Marriott Points & Direct Exchanges

[GregT]

All,

As TUGgers know, I believe there are creative ways to use the DC system. There's been a great deal of discussion about renting points from other point owners, and there has been some discussion on how points can facilitate a Direct Exchange. I've speculated on this possibility separately.

In the interests of further stimulating the dialogue, I wanted to describe a transaction that I've agreed to with another TUGger, and I have their permission to describe the agreement.

It is important to note that this Direct Exchange could not have happened without the DC system -- therefore a real benefit from the system. I continue to believe that the DClub will help facilitate Direct Exchanges between owners of different systems, and offer this as a real life example.

As for the specific trade, I am interested in going to Aulani in summer 2013 and my counterpart is interested in going to Timber Lodge in ski season 2013. I do not own DVC and he does not own Marriott. Our agreement is that I will book his requested stay at Timber Lodge and he will book my requested stay at Aulani. Each of our stays are less than 7 days, and may have non-traditional check-in dates (to be determined). The structure of each system facilitates these reservations.

Additionally, because the rental value of his DVC points is ~2X the rental value of the Marriott points that I will contribute, I will utilize an extra MOC Studio that I have on deposit with II and arrange an exchange for him into a week at Maui Ocean Club, most probably via FlexChange. I may be criticized for using II as part of the trade, but I can defend this as MOC is my home resort -- and I am fortunate to have the extra week available.

I like this trade alot (and recognize DClub's key role here in making it happen) because I am able to access a system I otherwise couldn't get -- Disney. Otherwise I would be dependent on Aulani someday appearing in RCI --- and it would likely disappear into RCI's rental pool anyway.

My counterparty on the other hand, can count on my status in the Marriott system and the depth of Timber Lodge inventory in the Trust to be confident they will get the ski week reservation. The II trade is the kicker, because there is uncertainty where and when, but we know something will come up in the next two years.

For each of us, our respective MFs for the points/weeks we are using make these cost effective reservations --- and not considering that the actual reservation would be very difficult to get.

Now, I certainly hope all goes as planned -- and that in 2013 I post from Aulani, and that my colleague posts from Heavenly (and MOC)!!

Thoughts and comments?

Best to all,

Greg

 

[Gophesjo]

What could possibly make Aulani worth all of that?

Just curious...

Joe

 

[GregT]

Just curious...

Joe

Aulani may not be worth it -- but think of all the money I'll save if I don't like it! I won't have to buy a Disney......

Seriously, I don't view it as a lot -- recall that the II week was an extra that I wouldn't personally use anyway. My kids are the right age to visit a Disney property (even if not Disney World -- that's next April 2012), so the timing is still right.

Best,

Greg

 

[presley]

As a DVC owner, I can say that I would much prefer doing a direct trade with an owner of something that I wanted to use vs. trading into a system like RCI or renting the points for the reservation.

The potential issues with it is that we can only book at the 7 month window for resorts we don't own, and at 11 months for the home resort. When planning a 2013 visit, there is no way of knowing if the room type will be available for the dates needed. Also, things in life change and what if the DVC member has a turn for the worse and isn't able to pay their MFs or if they carry a mortgage, gets behind in payments. A very clear written contract may help with that.

As far as value goes, I think that is the tricky part with points systems. Points are worth more at different times of the year. If both parties want a week (I know this doesn't apply to OP situation) somewhere, one at high time, the other at low, does that really make a difference? Both are getting what they want. I probably would look more towards the actual cost of the annual dues and not put any consideration to the value that the company places on the point value of the time of year.

 

[MOXJO7282]

I like the creativity. If you both like the value being received then its a win-win. I think direct exchanges are th best. I've only have done one in the past but actually looking to do one this year for a unit I own.

 

[DeniseM]

A gentle reminder - while abstract discussions of trading are welcome in the discussion forums, specific offers to trade are not permitted, and should be posted in the private exchange section of the TUG Marketplace, or discussed privately, instead. Thank you

 

[slum808]

From the DVC side

I provided the other half of this trade and first off wanted to thank Greg for the Marriott point rental boad which spured some of this creative thinking. As a parent of 3 living on Oahu, DVC Grand California made a lot of sense for us. Disney Land is our top destination and Aulani brought the staycation to the next level. The problem with DVC is the limited exchanges you can get with RCI. Most DVC owners rent their points for $10-$12 pp then use that money for a rental. When I scoped out Marriott's timber lodge they wanted about $2K for a cash reservation. That was an option, but I would have had to rent my points seperatly to pay for that.

Greg was able to get me two of my next wish list vacations, Maui being the next. I should be able to get him in Aulani. With the high point totals of Aulani getting a premium room isn't hard at the 7 month window. Of course there is always risk involved, but this seems to have saved my time and money.

Steve

 

[frank808]

[Please see post #6 above - Trading is not permitted in the discussion forums. Please use private messages for those discussions - DeniseM Moderator]

 

[chunkygal]

I don't think anyone is soliciting for trades..just discussing the options that are available with the DC system. I own both Marriott and DVC. I have owned DVC for 15 years and always liked the flexibility of the points. I wished that Marriott had had this before I bought my week in Hawaii, but loved Marriott because of the locations of the resorts. Both have great names and in my mind from staying at both, are very comparable.

I am glad to see this evolve.

With Marriott and their new system, all this is new, but is you ever read the disney boards you can see that over the years it has grown into a cottage industry.

I have rented many times without contracts...and luckily it has always worked out great for both parties and like someone said, if everyone gets what they want and are happy that matters more than the if it is all "equal".

For what it is worth, I can't imagine what they have at Aulani that could be better than KoOlina. I saw it last year and it might be a little newer, a little "themier", but the ocean view is generally the same.

 

[m61376]

Whether using the DC or traditional weeks, direct trades are a great and underutilized option. Last year from postings in the marketplace here another creative tugger suggested a 3 party trade It was great- basically, A had what B wanted and B had what C wanted, and C had what A wanted. We all made reservations at the 1 year mark for the exact dates and everyone had a great vacation at their respective trades. It was a win-win all around.

I think if you get too bogged down with "values" trades will never happen; if you get what you want when you want to vacation, and you can fulfill the other person's needs, then it is a good deal irregardless if you are trading a little up or down in MF's.

Kudos Greg for another effective way to use the DC. I don't know, all your posts may ultimately intrigue me to join

 

[jont]

Fantastic job Greg. Its amazing what you can sometimes accomplish by thinking outside the box. I hope you and your trading partner have great trips.

 

[DeniseM]

I don't think anyone is soliciting for trades..just discussing the options that are available with the DC system.

chunkygal - I have already deleted 3 posts from this thread that specifically offered/solicited trades - othewise I would not have posted a 2nd warning.

 

[thinze3]

I don't think owning at MOC qualifies this part of your trade as an owner-to-owner exchange, however, as far as II is involved, you should not have an issue at all,

I contacted II a few years ago about my trading into a Marriott in Hawaii and then letting aa acquaintance (Tugger) use that resort, while I used his/her Hilton in Hawaii. I even explained that I would essentially be "trading my trade". I was told that doing this was not a problem at all. (I know - a different rep a different answer.)

As far as owner-to-owner, I love it. I traded my Marriott Hawaii TS for a Westin Hawaii unit a couple of years ago with another Tugger. The transaction was so smooth and worry free that I wouldn't think twice about doing another direct exchange.

Good job on your creativity.

 

[MOXJO7282]

chunkygal - I have already deleted 3 posts from this thread that specifically offered/solicited trades - othewise I would not have posted a 2nd warning.

I certainly respect the decision makers on TUG and I understand the restriction on soliciting rentals in the open forum, but not sure about the logic on trades. Can you share that logic?

Personally I'd love to see a free wheeling direct exchange forum that allows for the example below. I think the Direct Exch in the marketplace is limited because you can only request one resort for one resort, unless I'm missing the functionality. Not only that, I'd love to the deals as they get constructed.



sample:
I'm offering Resort X checkin date X

willing to exchange for
x resort - 1BDRM any week 24-32
x resort - 2 bdrm OF week 40
x resort 1or 2 Christmas week

 

[DeniseM]

We have other places where people can buy/sell/rent/trade - we want to reserve the discussion forums just for discussion.

If another option was created, Owner Brian Rogers would have to make the decision.

Personally, I wouldn't mind having a forum for trading that was set up like the Last Minute Rental Forum, but I don't think it should be allowed in the discussion forums.

 

[GregT]

Personally I'd love to see a free wheeling direct exchange forum that allows for the example below. I think the Direct Exch in the marketplace is limited because you can only request one resort for one resort, unless I'm missing the functionality.

We have other places where people can buy/sell/rent/trade - we want to reserve the discussion forums just for discussion.

If another option was created, Owner Brian Rogers would have to make the decision.

All,

I whole-heartedly agree that a discussion forum that facilitated trades (and points-rentals) would be incredibly valuable on TUG and a great service to the owner community. I've requested from Brian that we be permitted to have such a forum but the response was such that I do not believe it is in our future.

That's the entire reason why I created my website. I would much prefer to have it on TUG but I am realistic about the chances of that. Hopefully if my website gets enough traction, Brian might view the value of such a forum on TUG differently.

Best to all,

Greg

 

[Culli]

Value on these types of things are truly in the eye of the beholder. If you go $ for $ things that get missed are:

1. ease of transaction
2. certainty of transaction including your time saved
3. cost of doing it via rental, buying or through the resort

There are times I might pay more for a certain week, unit or location then a rock bottom price but I ALWAYS come out way ahead when I look at the 3 points I made. Sometimes its not about doing it for rock bottom great stellar deal, its just about feeling you got a fair deal.

 

[thinze3]

...
Personally, I wouldn't mind having a forum for trading that was set up like the Last Minute Rental Forum, but I don't think it should be allowed in the discussion forums.

I second that thought. A simple members only forum would be nice.

I had to send out quite a few PM's to the Starwood owners before I got a bite.

 

[JPrisco]

I saw the Aulani model villas at Disney World today and they look beautiful! Makes me want to go to Hawaii even more.
They are using more upscale fixtures which are beautiful.

 

[Clark]

Well, I approached Brian some years back with the notion of some sort of cooperation on Marriott direct exchanges. Even though my site had been in successful operation for many years, there was not a lot of interest.

Maybe early next year after my current upgrade is in place, I will check again on that possibility.

 

[slum808]

So would it be wrong to just start a thread that said, Oh I wish I could visit....

 

[thinze3]

Well, I approached Brian some years back with the notion of some sort of cooperation on Marriott direct exchanges. Even though my site had been in successful operation for many years, there was not a lot of interest.

Maybe early next year after my current upgrade is in place, I will check again on that possibility.

But it the Marriott to Marriott & Westin & Hyatt & Hilton & Disney & ... that I would be interested in.

 

[Clark]

But it the Marriott to Marriott & Westin & Hyatt & Hilton & Disney & ... that I would be interested in.

There is a site that has been in business (www.timex.to) for over 10 years that facilitates direct exchanges from any resort to any other.

But your chances of actually managing to get a successful exchange with that site are really, really low. I just now looked and that site has 2356 exchange requests spread among 3568 resorts. Do the math -- that's not even 1 request per resort on average. So how would you ever expect to get a match to what you might be looking for?

So, IMHO, what you are wishing for is not going to happen. The only reasons Marriott-Marriott direct exchanges work is because of the reasonably good number of members participating per resort ratio, and the fact that Marriott ownership is season-based, so that owners can offer up many weeks for exchange even though they only "own" one.

It's all in the math --

 

[Twinkstarr]

But it the Marriott to Marriott & Westin & Hyatt & Hilton & Disney & ... that I would be interested in.

I would be interested also. I think there would be a lot of interest on the DIS boards for this too, as Marriott/Westin/Hyatt TS's were the most talked in the II days.

I've tried the direct trade board here, I listed my requested resorts/times and at some of the replies for trades.

 

[sparty]

All,

For each of us, our respective MFs for the points/weeks we are using make these cost effective reservations --- and not considering that the actual reservation would be very difficult to get.

Thoughts and comments?

Best to all,

Greg

I think on the MF side it's hard to understand value. Comparing Aulani to other Marriott's, I really like Lahaina & Napili towers in Maui. They are fantastic. So for me I wouldn't be so willing to trade Marriott time or points for stays I could have at Lahaina/Napili for Aulani.

I've been following the related thread over on DVC too. Maybe I missed it, but didn't seem like too many people were talking about Disney's screw up on the maintenance fees. That mistake cost Jim Lewis, former president of DVC, his job along with two other Disney finance executives.

It also caused the sales to be suspended so Disney could explain to the regulators the screw up and the need to bump up the MF's by 33% out of the gate. I found interesting that Disney said they would prioritize the re-filings in Florida, New York, California, and Illinois. Those are supposedly the biggest markets for Disney.

The original MF price was 4.30/pt and it's now 5.73/pt, an increase of 33%. Disney stated that owners who bought previous to the debacle will get a credit. Are they serious, like it's a possibility they screwed up so bad you have to respread the peanut butter all over an no credits would be issued?

Aulani looks nice, but not enough to tempt me to be trading Marriott time or points that I could be spending at Marriott Hawaii resorts.