Marriott opts out of Choose 2

[jdunn1]

I just heard back from Interval regarding my email about size compensation trades. You can no longer trade a larger unit and receive multiple smaller units into a Marriott property. Not the news I was expecting so I am disappointed to say the least. I was told these changes are effective 03/04/2016 until further notice.

 

[Sugarcubesea]

I just heard back from Interval regarding my email about size compensation trades. You can no longer trade a larger unit and receive multiple smaller units into a Marriott property. Not the news I was expecting so I am disappointed to say the least. I was told these changes are effective 03/04/2016 until further notice.

Is this only for Marriott? I was going to deposit my non-Mariott- QH Lockout unit next year and secure two weeks from the one week deposited?

thanks

 

[jdunn1]

This is only for Marriott. You can deposit any unit you want (even a Marriott) and still secure multiple smaller units for the same week but it would have to be for a non-Marriott resort. For example, I could still deposit a 3 bedroom Worldmark unit and get a two bedroom and a studio at the same resort for the same check-in but it would have to be for a non-Marriott resort. For me this means, no more depositing a 3 bedroom and getting 2 or three smaller units at a Marriott resort for the same week. I did this a few time in Orlando. I would give-up a 3 bedroom and get multiple smaller units at a Marriott resort for the same check-in dates. This was how I was able to bring lots of family and friends and give everyone their own accommodations.

Looks like I will have to try a Sheraton resort or maybe a Westgate, now. This was one of my primary means of trading.

Is this only for Marriott? I was going to deposit my non-Mariott- QH Lockout unit next year and secure two weeks from the one week deposited?

thanks

 

[tschwa2]

Does it mean your original exchange can be into a Marriott but the size xyz has to be into a non Marriott? For example, I think Greg often uses a full 2 br Willow Ridge to set up an OGS for a 1 br into a Marriott Maui. Would he then be able to use an size based xyz to get a studio into a non Marriott or does exchanging into a Marriott mean he loses that option?

It kind of overall just seems that exchanges into Marriotts have to be on a 1:1 basis, no using an AC, xyz, short stays or pick 2 to get a bonus Marriott unit without an actual deposit to back it up. This is going to mean places like Orlando, Branson, and Williamsburg, Marriott's will be even easier for to get with an exchange because excess inventory will not be sucked up with bonuses.

 

[jdunn1]

I like your summary about the overall Marriott exchange summary. This seems to be what is happening now.

I do not think what you have explained regarding what Greg usually does will work. My experience with XYZ exchanges (I always get Type I and Type II mixed up) is that when trading down in size for multiple units the check-in day and resort for all units has to match. So if Greg wanted to trade a two bedroom Marriott for a one bedroom Marriott somewhere else he can still do that but he will no longer be able to secure another smaller unit (a studio) at the same Marriott resort for that same check-in day.

What I would do in the past was deposit a 3 bedroom Worldmark unit in Interval and then take a trade into a Marriott resort for a smaller unit (usually a 2 bedroom) and then do an XYZ exchange (Size compensation) and get a studio for the same resort and check-in day. I would then use that extra studio for family or friends so we had more people going on vacation with us. It would cost me an extra exchange fee but it didn't involve another trade. I did this for Easter trades into a Marriott Orlando resort two times, before.

Like always, the trading rules are constantly trading. I can't do size compensation trades any longer, at least not into Marriott resorts which have made up almost 100% of my trades in the past. Maybe this change will make it possible for me to use smaller Worldmark units to trade up for larger Marriott resorts now.

My past strategy has been to give Interval their prized 3 bedroom deposits because it gave me greater trading power and the ability to take multiple smaller units. Maybe now the better strategy is to trade size for size.

When I first started trading (maybe 7 years ago) size compensation trades either didn't exist or I didn't know about it. Now, II (or Marriott) has taken away that ability. One thing I have learned is that the trading rules never stay the same so one day it may be possible to do get size compensation trades in Marriott properties, again. I know things usually do not get better for us traders but everything old is new again at some point.

Does it mean your original exchange can be into a Marriott but the size xyz has to be into a non Marriott? For example, I think Greg often uses a full 2 br Willow Ridge to set up an OGS for a 1 br into a Marriott Maui. Would he then be able to use an size based xyz to get a studio into a non Marriott or does exchanging into a Marriott mean he loses that option?

It kind of overall just seems that exchanges into Marriotts have to be on a 1:1 basis, no using an AC, xyz, short stays or pick 2 to get a bonus Marriott unit without an actual deposit to back it up. This is going to mean places like Orlando, Branson, and Williamsburg, Marriott's will be even easier for to get with an exchange because excess inventory will not be sucked up with bonuses.

 

[SkyBlueWaters]

Don't count on it. The trend is for Marriott properties pulling away from Interval inventory. It will only get worse. Other properties may be available but Marriott units will become scarce.

How can you use your smaller Worldmark unit for larger Marriott units? Based on this trend, that would not happen anymore, especially with the new elite tier in place.

 

[tschwa2]

The restriction also benefits Marriott sales. I can certainly imagine the objection for legacy owners to buy more points is that they can trade up and get bonus weeks and now that the bonus weeks are gone maybe more owners will opt to use points and then may need to purchase points to get the same kind of vacations.

 

[Venter]

My experience today.

I traded a 1 bedroom Lake Shore Reserve for for three bedroom Surfwatch during flexchange this spring break. It is Fri - Fri so I though I will see what is available after to maybe add the weekend somewhere else. There is a grid for March to end May at the moment. First lady told me I can not do it as it is restricted due to being a popular week.

I then phoned again as I thought of maybe adding a week before another week in June starting the 3rd. At first I was told about a week in Cypress Harbour or Royal Palms but, rightly so, was then told I couldn't book it due to my original deposit being a 1 bedroom. The lady then commented later that she would not be able to book into the Marriotts anyway due to change in policy starting yesterday communicated via memo.

The cost of trade would have been $188 into a 1 bedroom or lower unit.

For clarification the second week needs to be during the same week of check in or anytime after as specified by th grid at the time of booking.

I am a bit disappointed because trading into another Marriott saved the fee. Looking at it a bit positively I guess I will now try other resorts that I might not have before and hopefully this will encourage them to improve their standards in order to entice new business. Not that I will buy developer though.

 

[dioxide45]

There are/were two different kinds of XYZ, Type 1 and Type 2. Type 1 is the one that was converted to Choose 2. Confirm an exchange and you can confirm a second exchange based on grid availability. Choose 2 is the size based XYZ where if you use a larger unit to confirm something smaller, you can get a second exchange to make up for the difference. It seems that Marriott units won't be available through either type?

I didn't receive a reply today from II regarding my additional.

 

[dioxide45]

The restriction also benefits Marriott sales. I can certainly imagine the objection for legacy owners to buy more points is that they can trade up and get bonus weeks and now that the bonus weeks are gone maybe more owners will opt to use points and then may need to purchase points to get the same kind of vacations.

I think it really only benefits Marriott if they still allow non Marriott owners to use Choose 2 to exchange in. That is fresh meat. Though my guess is that most people using Choose 2 are going to be a tough sell.

I imagine that there aren't many developers out there that were happy when II publicized Choose 2. Doubt we will see Starwood pull out though since they will be in II. Though II could pull the plug on them. It would still be interesting to know if this directive came from Marriott or if it is IIs discretion.

 

[dioxide45]

I just heard back from Interval regarding my email about size compensation trades. You can no longer trade a larger unit and receive multiple smaller units into a Marriott property. Not the news I was expecting so I am disappointed to say the least. I was told these changes are effective 03/04/2016 until further notice.

Interesting about the date. The date in the original post and in the response I received was May 4th, not March 4th.

Edit: I did receive a follow up email from II today, I missed it. The effective date is March 4th, not May 4th. It was also indicated that this restriction applies to all members using Choose 2. So Marriott inventory will not be available to any member confirming a Choose 2. II always restricted Four Seasons and Hyatt. There were also several Starwoods always restricted. This is from the old XYZ grid that was leaked;

Excludes these resorts ALL the time: Four Seasons (FSA, SCT, FPM), Hyatt (HBK, HCC, HMS, HNS, HRP, HSH, HSL, HWP, HYA, HYB, HYI, HYK, HYN, HYP, HYS), MFV, FKL, Starwood-Westin-Sheraton-Vistana: HRA, KAA, KAN, WEJ, WLR, WPV and WSJ, Grand Luxxe Residence
Club: LXR & LX2. SEE GUIDELINES.

 

[dominidude]

It would still be interesting to know if this directive came from Marriott or if it is IIs discretion.

It is my experience that II is getting more restrictive. I'd be surprised if this came from Marriott.

I'm letting my II membership expire. This was one of the few things I saw as a benefit of exchanging through II.

 

[dioxide45]

Don't count on it. The trend is for Marriott properties pulling away from Interval inventory. It will only get worse. Other properties may be available but Marriott units will become scarce.

How can you use your smaller Worldmark unit for larger Marriott units? Based on this trend, that would not happen anymore, especially with the new elite tier in place.

With this new restriction in place, I would expect some more availability in shoulder and off season at Marriott properties. I expect a lot of excess Marriott inventory was gobbled up by Choose 2.

 

[Old Hickory]

With this new restriction in place, I would expect some more availability in shoulder and off season at Marriott properties. I expect a lot of excess Marriott inventory was gobbled up by Choose 2.

And, maybe the ACs will get better because of this. Maybe this is the solution to the problem.

(Glass half full)

 

[youppi]

If people who deposit 2 or 3 bdrm can't be any more compensated with XYZ type 2 because there is no 2 or 3 bdrm available and they must downgrade then logically 2 and 3 bdrm should not be given to people who deposit studio and 1 bdrm (upgrade) to be fair. Like for like in unit size must be applied all the time to help people who deposit 2 or 3 bdrm to get a 2 or 3 bdrm.

 

[dominidude]

And, maybe the ACs will get better because of this. Maybe this is the solution to the problem.

(Glass half full)

I hope so, but I do not think so, because, I think II's end game seems to simply jack prices up as much as possible without people noticing. They can tell whether there is enough demand for particular units, and it seems their accounts figured out they could make more $$ by pulling Marriotts out of choose 2. Nothing wrong with wanting to make more $$$, but there's also nothing wrong with taking my business elsewhere.

By the way, thanks for the post OP.

 

[dioxide45]

If people who deposit 2 or 3 bdrm can't be any more compensated with XYZ type 2 because there is no 2 or 3 bdrm available and they must downgrade then logically 2 and 3 bdrm should not be given to people who deposit studio and 1 bdrm (upgrade) to be fair. Like for like in unit size must be applied all the time to help people who deposit 2 or 3 bdrm to get a 2 or 3 bdrm.

I guess it all depends on what a upgrade really is. Is someone using a Hawaii studio unit during peak time trading in to a 2BR Orlando week in September really an upgrade? It would seem that II has determined that doing this isn't an upgrade or they wouldn't necessarily grant the exchange.

People can still get compensated with an XYZ Type 2, the issue is that the second unit has to be a non Marriott. I really am surprised that they are restricting Marriott's from Type 2. Those are pretty rare anyway.

 

[twinmommy19]

And, maybe the ACs will get better because of this. Maybe this is the solution to the problem.

(Glass half full)

I was told my my II rep yesterday that Marriott has also severely restricted the available inventory allowed for all types of bonus weeks (ACs). If you go back to the terms of any AC you received last year you will see a provision that pretty much every Marriott cannot be confirmed During any remotely desirable time frame - not even studios during flex period. This is definitely a Marriott decision. II is going to lose tons of money from this in exchange fees. For Marriott it's an experiment and a fair point. We check in to our 4 BR ( 2 two BDRMS ) on 6/19 at MFV - both units were confirmed using bonus weeks from cheap non-Marriott 2BR deposits. From Marriott's perspective, that's a big problem for DC sales and understandably so. Using a non-Marriott underlying 4BR lock out with under 800 in maintenance fees TOTAL I confirmed 4 BRs at Marriott Aruba Surf club (2 two Br) with the real deposits and two MFV summer weeks with the ACs. Sure I paid II 4 exchange fees but overall I still paid less than a DC owner would have paid in maintenance to have enough points to confirm those 4 weeks right? So why would I join the DC? No incentive. I bet if it was 100% up to Marriott, they'd only restrict non-Marriott issued ACs but II is probably holding their ground on that because they can't afford to piss off the other franchises. So everyone is restricted until further notice. My guess is the terms will lighten up as Marriott will need to fill all those studio lock outs.

 

[dioxide45]

I was told my my II rep yesterday that Marriott has also severely restricted the available inventory allowed for all types of bonus weeks (ACs). If you go back to the terms of any AC you received last year you will see a provision that pretty much every Marriott cannot be confirmed During any remotely desirable time frame - not even studios during flex period. This is definitely a Marriott decision. II is going to lose tons of money from this in exchange fees. For Marriott it's an experiment and a fair point. We check in to our 4 BR ( 2 two BDRMS ) on 6/19 at MFV - both units were confirmed using bonus weeks from cheap non-Marriott 2BR deposits. From Marriott's perspective, that's a big problem for DC sales and understandably so. Using a non-Marriott underlying 4BR lock out with under 800 in maintenance fees TOTAL I confirmed 4 BRs at Marriott Aruba Surf club (2 two Br) with the real deposits and two MFV summer weeks with the ACs. Sure I paid II 4 exchange fees but overall I still paid less than a DC owner would have paid in maintenance to have enough points to confirm those 4 weeks right? So why would I join the DC? No incentive. I bet if it was 100% up to Marriott, they'd only restrict non-Marriott issued ACs but II is probably holding their ground on that because they can't afford to piss off the other franchises. So everyone is restricted until further notice. My guess is the terms will lighten up as Marriott will need to fill all those studio lock outs.

II has a long history of giving preference to major brands to the detriment of individual II members at small independent resorts. SOme still made out well with their independent ownership. It seems though that II is moving further in the direction of restricting access to the major brands.

 

[twinmommy19]

II has a long history of giving preference to major brands to the detriment of individual II members at small independent resorts. SOme still made out well with their independent ownership. It seems though that II is moving further in the direction of restricting access to the major brands.

This is not II - it's Marriott for sure. II loses a crap load of money from this particular change because the ACs are worth a lot less now (for everyone - Marriott owners included). It means less exchange fees for them in aggregate - without a doubt. Marriott is conducting an experiment. If more people buy the DC because of this, it'll succeed. I think it will be part success / part failure. Marriott hopes the ability to use hardly any DC points for nights during low seasons will become a bigger selling point (if people can't otherwise trade into those resorts with an AC). I suspect Marriott is going to have a hard time filling some of its resorts keeping this level of restriction. I have a feeling the studios will become available again one day. We'll see.

 

[Chrispee]

It is my experience that II is getting more restrictive. I'd be surprised if this came from Marriott.

This was my initial reaction to the news too. I was always under the impression that the shoulder weeks that were available as xyz or choose2 options were deposited weeks. I just checked my two Marriott xyz exchanges in my history and neither were developer deposits.

Long story short, I was always under the assumption that xyz / choose2 weeks would likely go unused as exchanges, so they were fire-sold off. It makes no sense to me that Marriott would have been giving weeks to II to clear out for just an exchange fee... where was their cut?

 

[OutAndAbout]

It makes no sense to me that Marriott would have been giving weeks to II to clear out for just an exchange fee... where was their cut?

Marriott bulk-banked weeks they believed would go otherwise unused. I expect that Marriott did/does this for multiple reasons:
(a) w\Weeks are expiring goods, having them empty brings in no revenue and has little incremental cost (cleaning at checkout)
(b) II may split some of the exchange/booking fee(s) with Marriott for Marriott banked villas
(c) The average on-property spend exceeds the incremental cost
(d) More people at the timeshares foster more potential sales
(e) With Marriott priority, most bulk banked units may be booked by Marriott owners, reinforcing their value of Marriott ownership.

DC has a discount policy as well where booking within a certain timeframe (60 days prior to checkin?) is significantly less points (1/2 the points amount?)

 

[dioxide45]

Marriott bulk-banked weeks they believed would go otherwise unused. I expect that Marriott did/does this for multiple reasons:
(a) w\Weeks are expiring goods, having them empty brings in no revenue and has little incremental cost (cleaning at checkout)
(b) II may split some of the exchange/booking fee(s) with Marriott for Marriott banked villas
(c) The average on-property spend exceeds the incremental cost
(d) More people at the timeshares foster more potential sales
(e) With Marriott priority, most bulk banked units may be booked by Marriott owners, reinforcing their value of Marriott ownership.

DC has a discount policy as well where booking within a certain timeframe (60 days prior to checkin?) is significantly less points (1/2 the points amount?)

The thing with many bulk banked weeks is that the MFs may have already paid for some of the incremental cost. It all depends on the source. Even if the bulks were a result of defaulted weeks, the other owners paid for the MFs in the Bad Debt Expense line item of the budget. So it is all about incremental costs and additional income for Marriott owned concessions.

 

[Tellmanny]

So Long, Farewell...xyz's

Well, it was too good to last... Been exchanging into Orlando in mid to late August every year and then getting an XYZ exchange without a hitch... and as an added bonus since we signed up for the DC so no exchange fees for either week.

Just tried to check on XYZ availability... Now, it appears that this "Choose 2" program crap excludes Marriott properties... :annoyed:

 

[dioxide45]

Well, it was too good to last... Been exchanging into Orlando in mid to late August every year and then getting an XYZ exchange without a hitch... and as an added bonus since we signed up for the DC so no exchange fees for either week.

Just tried to check on XYZ availability... Now, it appears that this "Choose 2" program crap excludes Marriott properties... :annoyed:

When they first rolled over to Choose 2 from XYZ, Marriott's were included. This is just a recent change where they are now excluded. I agree that the good days of XYZ are gone, especially those freebies using an enrolled Marriott wee.