Marriott Maui Preview in one hr-any questions?

[winger]

Sorry for the last-minute notice, but we are leaving in about 1/2 hour for a preview in preparation for our check-in tomorrow.

Any questions you want us to ask?

 

[LAX Mom]

winger-
If you're still around the Maui Marriott, Emmy (iconnections) and her husband would like to meet you. I just sent you a PM, I have her phone number.
We had a great visit this past week with Denise L, iconnections and borntotravel. Have a great week!
Aloha!

 

[taffy19]

Thank you Lisa.

Winger just called me and we are going to meet. We also enjoyed meeting some of the other TUGgers the other day at the Westin.

 

[winger]

I just spoke to iconnections - I hope we can meet up later !

Here are a few notes about our tour this morning:

1) no pressure at all - rep was Brian T., very professional and friendly

2) 25th year anniversary 25% off only good for today (overall offer ends this coming Wed for general members) - and was for Napali Towers every year OF and GV's only. discount not available for EOY units. Cost after discount is approx 46k and 35k (OF/GV). MF were steep IMO approx $1800/yr.

3) Superpool is closing on Monday for renovation, as scheduled - as well as exterior painting of the original hotel conversion bldg is underway.

4) three Hawaiian projects coming up are Waikiki (behind Marriott hotel), Kauai (next to the Ritz, overlooking Kauai Beach Club) and the Big Island.

5) Marriott is moving ahead with internal trading system, 8-16 months out.

6) existing resale owners will NOT be grandfathered in, they will have a booking window of 6 mos from date of checkin.

7) We were able to book a 2-bedroom Maui unit (check in tomorrow) with our mainland unit (MMC) only because of the current renovation and pool shutdown.

8) seemed very slow in the sales area. We got our 10k MRP's - did not opt for the two 25-min massages or $75.

 

[GaryDouglas]

6) existing resale owners will NOT be grandfathered in, they will have a booking window of 6 mos from date of checkin.

Did he say this as a matter of fact? Anything else you can say about this?

 

[winger]

Did he say this as a matter of fact? Anything else you can say about this?

My question was basically what is marriott doing to distinguish development and resale purchases. The three things he mentioned were 1) no mrp conversions. 2) no assigned voa, although they will not deny you a conversation with a voa if a resale owner calls mvci owner svcs and 3) all resale owners will be allowed the 6-mo reservaton window.

When I
asked if whether he was sure "existing resale owners will be grandfathered in to the current 12-mo reservation window" he said that this was considered but marriott decided against doing this, that 6-mo will apply to all resales once mvci goes to the internal trading system. He quoted this info was from a a recent presentation from the timeshare vp (or president?, I forget which) .

 

[Quimby4]

hum..interesting.
There have been lots of rumors for the last year about the internal trading system.

Any time line for the other Hawaii properties? This is the first I have heard. The Big Island needs a Marriott but Kauai already has 2, so that is surprising. Waikiki would be a good location. Perhaps this is on a 10 year plan.
Thanks for the update

 

[winger]

Supposedly the one on kauai has already broken ground, waikiki's timeframe is 2 yrs out from completion, and mvci just purchased the big island land.

hum..interesting.
There have been lots of rumors for the last year about the internal trading system.

Any time line for the other Hawaii properties? This is the first I have heard. The Big Island needs a Marriott but Kauai already has 2, so that is surprising. Waikiki would be a good location. Perhaps this is on a 10 year plan.
Thanks for the update

 

[Quimby4]

I sure hope the Big Island is beach front or real close to the beach!

Any idea what area of the Big Island?

Thanks, and enjoy Maui!!

 

[sdtugger]

No way are resales going to a 6 month reservation window. The class action lawsuit that was already very strong is almost iron clad with the recent Marriott statement that they would NOT try to limit resale reservations in a new system. I'm not buying it. But, if they do try it, a class action lawsuit is certainly in Marriott's future. Talk about a dumb move.

 

[Latravel]

I am really glad to hear that Marriott has some new properties in the plan and they are going ahead. This must mean they feel confident and a strong Marriott is good for all of us!

 

[dougp26364]

THis is the second time I've read that a Marriott salesman has come right out and said something about an internal exchange program. I think we'll all have to wait and see what the real rules are rather than any salesman talk that's going to slant things in their favor to make a sale. It could simply be that Marriott offers some sort of option where an owner, resale or direct, can reserve their home resort at 12 months. Then limit the internal exchanges to any other Marriott to 10 months for direct purchasers for 6 months for resale buyers. If they do that, resale buyers can still reserve their home resort for personal usage or exchange with I.I. While it might not be a perfect world it will certainly cut down on any chances of a successful lawsuit in that they're still providing what they had provided before any internal exchange system while still providing the idea of exclusivity to those that pay developer prices.

As to the new Hawaiian resorts, the Big Island would be a very nice addition. As it stands now, I'd have to go with Hilton to stay on the Big Isaland and that's a golf resort. I don't play golf and would prefer a beach front resort myself. But, I'll take what I can get if we ever decide to travel that direction.

Winger, I think #7 was more of a lie than any other statement. IMHO, this puts in doubt anything else the salesman has said. We easily booked into Waihoai using our 2 bedroom Grand Chateau week requesting the exchange 12 months in advance. I would agree that those that buy Hawaii and pay the price, both upfront and in MF's, are more likely to want to stay at those locations but, I doubt the "only" reason you were able to get that week was due to the pool closing. I have never known either of my resorts to telegraph pool closings to all the owners, including exchangers. So I doubt that so many people knew before making the exchange that the super pool was going to be closed. It's more likely that airfares were so high when that week was booked by the original owner that they decided on a mainland vacation this year. It's hard to tell but, Hawaii does not seem to be that difficult of an exchange. I've know to many people that have made the exchange for me to believe statement #7.

 

[taffy19]

I just spoke to iconnections - I hope we can meet up later !

Here are a few notes about our tour this morning:

1) no pressure at all - rep was Brian T., very professional and friendly

2) 25th year anniversary 25% off only good for today (overall offer ends this coming Wed for general members) - and was for Napali Towers every year OF and GV's only. discount not available for EOY units. Cost after discount is approx 46k and 35k (OF/GV). MF were steep IMO approx $1800/yr.

3) Superpool is closing on Monday for renovation, as scheduled - as well as exterior painting of the original hotel conversion bldg is underway.

4) three Hawaiian projects coming up are Waikiki (behind Marriott hotel), Kauai (next to the Ritz, overlooking Kauai Beach Club) and the Big Island.

5) Marriott is moving ahead with internal trading system, 8-16 months out.

6) existing resale owners will NOT be grandfathered in, they will have a booking window of 6 mos from date of checkin.

7) We were able to book a 2-bedroom Maui unit (check in tomorrow) with our mainland unit (MMC) only because of the current renovation and pool shutdown.

8) seemed very slow in the sales area. We got our 10k MRP's - did not opt for the two 25-min massages or $75.

Winger, we enjoyed meeting you and your family too. We hope that your condo and view will be as nice at the MOC as you had here at the Maui KBC. Enjoy your second week!

We went to an update at the MOC and nothing was mentioned yet about the new internal exchange system but it was mentioned at the Vacation Club Owners' Workshop. I asked the person if re-sale owners would be grandfathered in but he didn't know the answer and hoped that they would because some of his own customers had bought re-sale too and they would be pretty upset. I believe that most people buy from the developer direct so the Marriott couldn't care less about the small percentage of re-sale buyers just like they didn't care about the one week owners either who lost 50% of the inventory to book twelve months in advance. That made it really hard for us to book our late February or early March week at the resort we owned. When we had a chance to upgrade to a fixed week and unit at a profit rather than a loss, we jumped at it and we have no regrets.

Aren't we talking about apples and oranges here anyway? One has to do with making reservations at the resort we own which will always be at least one year out or even longer and the other one has to do with making an internal exchange to another Marriott resort? Terms of exchanges were never spelled out in the documents that go with the deed so why would a class action lawsuit be justified? Is it because re-sale prices will drop next to nothing like with the Wyndham resorts?

I am going to call the sales lady tomorrow who took over our account and find out what she has learned in that meeting.

It was a beautiful day today and the ocean looked so calm.

 

[m61376]

I asked the person if re-sale owners would be grandfathered in but he didn't know the answer and hoped that they would because some of his own customers had bought re-sale too and they would be pretty upset. I believe that most people buy from the developer direct so the Marriott couldn't care less about the small percentage of re-sale buyers just like they didn't care about the one week owners either who lost 50% of the inventory to book twelve months in advance. That made it really hard for us to book our late February or early March week at the resort we owned. When we had a chance to upgrade to a fixed week and unit at a profit rather than a loss, we jumped at it and we have no regrets.

Aren't we talking about apples and oranges here anyway? One has to do with making reservations at the resort we own which will always be at least one year out or even longer and the other one has to do with making an internal exchange to another Marriott resort? Terms of exchanges were never spelled out in the documents that go with the deed so why would a class action lawsuit be justified? Is it because re-sale prices will drop next to nothing like with the Wyndham resorts?

I am going to call the sales lady tomorrow who took over our account and find out what she has learned in that meeting.

Part of what you said is the biggest factor, imho, in this whole discussion. Besides the legal issues of course, it is not in Marriott's best interests to antagonize any owners, because today's resale owners may have been yesterday's developer's owners and, in any case, are prospective new buyers of tomorrow's resorts. Keeping ALL owners happy is in Marriott's best interests.

The way I read Winger's comments (and I am not questioning that's what he was told) is that the salesperson stated that Marriott was going to curtail resale reservations to 6 months. It sounds like the salesperson was embellishing things a bit (isn't that a nice way of saying he was less than truthful?) since he was put on the defensive and wanted to encourage a direct purchase.

I agree that resale buyers are a small blip on the screen. I maintain that it would be a terrible business decision to exclude resale buyers from any new internal trading system. As stated above, current owners would have to at least be partially grandfathered in as to making reservations at their home resort for legal reasons and excluding them from internally trading would likely result in a lawsuit, definitely result in tremendous animosity and very bad publicity; these mostly developer and resale owners would likely never buy from Marriott again. That's bad for business.

As for future resale owners- as long as the rules don't change after a purchase is made, buyers can't cry fowl BUT this would create other issues. The resale market would plummet (or never recover and fall even more). How will the salesperson answer the question of "what if I ever want to sell it?" Secondly, salespeople tout the location they are trying to sell. There are many buyers who buy simply to use what they have purchased and do not intend to ever trade. Why not buy a resale unit that is now so much cheaper? Letting resale prices plummet is bad for business on both ends- detracts from the perceived investment value of the purchase and makes resales even more appealing to some people.

Even as a resale buyer, I know I might buy direct at a new location that holds appeal and, although I know timeshares are not an investment (which the majority of buyers likely are unawares of) I would hesitate to buy if I knew that there would be virtually no retained value on resale. I think part of the reason Marriotts have sold so well, besides their terrific properties, is that they are still worth $$$'s down the road. Many original pre-construction buyers have used their unit for years and either sold at or near their purchase price, or even made some money and gotten years of use. To me, that's the best sales pitch and reason to buy at a new property. I can't believe Marriott would destroy that.

 

[Latravel]

Aren't resale owners more likely to buy only resale? Why would Marriott want to accommodate a segment of owners that take business away from them? As shown here on tug, resale purchasers have no interest in purchasing directly from Marriott so i'm confused why resale owners expect Marriott to court them or make them happy. You don't give them any business or make them any money!

 

[dougp26364]

I'm finding it interesting that the new internal exchange system is now being discussed in the open by the sales staff. I'm starting to feel that this will more likely be a reality and just speculation. As to how it will play out, we're all just guessing. We all know that sales staff are the least reliable sources of information. Any details on this new internal exchange system remain just rumors. Until one of us see's something in writing, I think there's little need to be concerned about what might happen.

To many times in life we worry about things we have no control over. Worse yet, we worry about things that never even happen. Sure it's fun to speculate but, I'm happy to keep it at speculation and remain hopeful this will be something of value to all Marroitt owners.

 

[luv2vacation]

Aren't resale owners more likely to buy only resale? Why would Marriott want to accommodate a segment of owners that take business away from them? As shown here on tug, resale purchasers have no interest in purchasing directly from Marriott so i'm confused why resale owners expect Marriott to court them or make them happy. You don't give them any business or make them any money!

I don't mean to start an argument here (or offend anyone) but you're wrong on all counts. Let me elaborate.

First of all, many resale owners give Marriott TONS of business. Because they like the product so much, many of the resale owners are big participants in the Marriott rewards program. That often means that they buy points DIRECTLY from Marriott and/or they are Marriott brand loyal, patronizing exclusively Marriott brand hotels for business AND pleasure to accumulate their points. In addition to that, many have the MR visa card, which also generates profits for Marriott. They also patronize many of the Marriott restaurants, food markets, Marketplaces, ets. Marriott makes money off of all of that, too.

In addition, I have seen many (resalers) who frequent the MR program contemplate buying DIRECT at some point, either because they want in on a new property right away, or the the incentives are high enough to justify purchasing with their high usage of the MR program. My last purchase was resale because I have never used the option of trading my units for points. Hubby has no interest in traveling outside of the country. But maybe someday he will and under the conditions above, I would consider direct again.

I purchased 2 weeks direct and 1 week resale. Hubby is EXTREMELY brand loyal - will not stay anywhere but a Marriott when it comes to hotels. I also charge EVERYTHING on my MR rewards visa. I routinely buy gift cards, dining certs, etc. I'm sure Marriott gets something from all of that.

However, if Marriott chose to exclude 1 of my weeks (just because it was resale) and not the other 2, I would be VERY upset and would still use my Marriott timeshares but Marriott would lose ALL of my other business. (That's a LOT of business.) I would think that there are more people out there like me than you think. I know that there are many on TUG who have bought both direct AND resale, and who are very Marriott brand loyal.

So, yes I DO think that Marriott owes me something. I am loyal to their brand, not just with TS, but on the hotel side also. I also use their credit card and purchase their other products. I pay money in my maintenance fees that goes toward their management fees. In other words, I pay every year for the Marriott "name". I give them TONS of business. AND I know that I am not the only resale purchaser out there that does this. Believe me, Marriott makes money off of me all the time, just because someone doesn't buy direct doesn't mean that Marriott doesn't make a lot of money from their patronage.

 

[Latravel]

You make some very good points but I still think that Marriott makes more money off the direct purchasers vs the resale purchasers since direct purchasers buy the unit direct from Marriott (hence income from that sale) in addition to all of the income sources you mention.

People who use the program frequently (such as visa card use, buying points, staying in Marriott hotels) get rewarded in other ways (points, specials promos). We are discussing the internal trading system that was mentioned in Wingers presentation and should Marriott, which is a business, court resale purchasers, or, as you state, are resale purchasers "owed" anything?

 

[SueDonJ]

Hmmmmmmm. There's so much to think about here and I have a problem with clearly articulating all of my thoughts. Several things come to mind immediately, though.

... The class action lawsuit that was already very strong is almost iron clad with the recent Marriott statement that they would NOT try to limit resale reservations in a new system...

What class action lawsuit?

I don't mean to start an argument here (or offend anyone) but you're wrong on all counts. Let me elaborate.

First of all, many resale owners give Marriott TONS of business. Because they like the product so much, many of the resale owners are big participants in the Marriott rewards program. That often means that they buy points DIRECTLY from Marriott and/or they are Marriott brand loyal, patronizing exclusively Marriott brand hotels for business AND pleasure to accumulate their points. In addition to that, many have the MR visa card, which also generates profits for Marriott. They also patronize many of the Marriott restaurants, food markets, Marketplaces, ets. Marriott makes money off of all of that, too.

In addition, I have seen many (resalers) who frequent the MR program contemplate buying DIRECT at some point, either because they want in on a new property right away, or the the incentives are high enough to justify purchasing with their high usage of the MR program. My last purchase was resale because I have never used the option of trading my units for points. Hubby has no interest in traveling outside of the country. But maybe someday he will and under the conditions above, I would consider direct again.

I purchased 2 weeks direct and 1 week resale. Hubby is EXTREMELY brand loyal - will not stay anywhere but a Marriott when it comes to hotels. I also charge EVERYTHING on my MR rewards visa. I routinely buy gift cards, dining certs, etc. I'm sure Marriott gets something from all of that.

However, if Marriott chose to exclude 1 of my weeks (just because it was resale) and not the other 2, I would be VERY upset and would still use my Marriott timeshares but Marriott would lose ALL of my other business. (That's a LOT of business.) I would think that there are more people out there like me than you think. I know that there are many on TUG who have bought both direct AND resale, and who are very Marriott brand loyal.

So, yes I DO think that Marriott owes me something. I am loyal to their brand, not just with TS, but on the hotel side also. I also use their credit card and purchase their other products. I pay money in my maintenance fees that goes toward their management fees. In other words, I pay every year for the Marriott "name". I give them TONS of business. AND I know that I am not the only resale purchaser out there that does this. Believe me, Marriott makes money off of me all the time, just because someone doesn't buy direct doesn't mean that Marriott doesn't make a lot of money from their patronage.

Everything said here applies to me, too, except that I am not a resale purchaser. I do not expect that "Marriott owes me something," other than the use of my timeshare (as is stipulated in both the ownership documents and the program rules), and MRP benefits that anyone else in the program receives. (MVCI ownership is not a requisite for MRP program membership, thus I think of MRP as something enhanced by MVCI and not an extension of it.)

I don't have any problem at all with Marriott offering a 12/13-month reservation window for the units which you and I bought direct, and a reduced 6/7-month window for your resale unit. That differential gives us both what we're "owed", rewards customer loyalty, and is not legally forbidden by the deeded rights. Works for me.

 

[SueDonJ]

Part of what you said is the biggest factor, imho, in this whole discussion. Besides the legal issues of course, it is not in Marriott's best interests to antagonize any owners, because today's resale owners may have been yesterday's developer's owners and, in any case, are prospective new buyers of tomorrow's resorts. Keeping ALL owners happy is in Marriott's best interests.

The way I read Winger's comments (and I am not questioning that's what he was told) is that the salesperson stated that Marriott was going to curtail resale reservations to 6 months. It sounds like the salesperson was embellishing things a bit (isn't that a nice way of saying he was less than truthful?) since he was put on the defensive and wanted to encourage a direct purchase.

I agree that resale buyers are a small blip on the screen. I maintain that it would be a terrible business decision to exclude resale buyers from any new internal trading system. As stated above, current owners would have to at least be partially grandfathered in as to making reservations at their home resort for legal reasons and excluding them from internally trading would likely result in a lawsuit, definitely result in tremendous animosity and very bad publicity; these mostly developer and resale owners would likely never buy from Marriott again. That's bad for business.

As for future resale owners- as long as the rules don't change after a purchase is made, buyers can't cry fowl BUT this would create other issues. The resale market would plummet (or never recover and fall even more). How will the salesperson answer the question of "what if I ever want to sell it?" Secondly, salespeople tout the location they are trying to sell. There are many buyers who buy simply to use what they have purchased and do not intend to ever trade. Why not buy a resale unit that is now so much cheaper? Letting resale prices plummet is bad for business on both ends- detracts from the perceived investment value of the purchase and makes resales even more appealing to some people.

Even as a resale buyer, I know I might buy direct at a new location that holds appeal and, although I know timeshares are not an investment (which the majority of buyers likely are unawares of) I would hesitate to buy if I knew that there would be virtually no retained value on resale. I think part of the reason Marriotts have sold so well, besides their terrific properties, is that they are still worth $$$'s down the road. Many original pre-construction buyers have used their unit for years and either sold at or near their purchase price, or even made some money and gotten years of use. To me, that's the best sales pitch and reason to buy at a new property. I can't believe Marriott would destroy that.

Wow, there is a LOT here that I'm going to come back to later because Sunday dinner needs to be cooked and eaten , but for now ....

How will the salesperson answer the question of "what if I ever want to sell it?"

I would hope, truthfully! When we asked, our sales rep said something to the effect of, "Timeshares are not financial investments; their value is in the use of the product. But if you do want to sell down the road, Marriott has a buy-back program for use in certain circumstances. There are also outside resale brokers and an established market." (Perhaps she included this because she saw the sales brochures in our hands.) "People who buy pre-construction generally receive more of a return on their initial outlay than those who buy into finished properties, but very few actually make money in the timeshare market."

 

[lisilv]

This "internal trading system" was not brought up by the sales person when I was there 2 weeks ago. I'm sure there will be a LOT of unhappy re-sale buyers out there.

 

[Carlsbadguy]

The new Kauai property is going ot be labled Grand Residence Clubs - so don't know if they will trade like reg vacation clubs. Saw teh sign up last week while at Kauai Beach Club

 

[taffy19]

What class action lawsuit?

Exactly. The only people who benefit by a class action lawsuit are the attorneys. The people involved will get next to nothing and the attorney expenses are going to be passed on to us. What grounds do they have to sue the Marriott? This is what recently happened with the RCI class action lawsuit too. The attorneys made big money and the RCI members got a token. It is posted right here.

I wished the Marriott could keep us all happy but their first loyalty goes to the bottom line of their company and to satisfy their investors.

I happened to talk on the phone to a sales manager of a Marriott competitor and she told me that there is light in the tunnel as their sales are improving slowly. The smart money may know already that the worst is over. We looked at some private condos too here in Maui and the salesman told us the same thing that people are buying again.

The week, we were at the Marriott, seven sales had been reported the day before we took our update and I believe the figures that Winger was quoted about the 25% sale as it is a good deal for direct purchasers who are not aware that a re-sale market even exists or the MRP system is more important to them and combining a 2 BR condo once a year for their family is like an extra perk to them for all the company traveling they do. Not everyone thinks like people here on TUG and I still feel that early one week owners got holding the bag because they got disadvantaged after the thirteen months reserve window came into being but we did something about it and are happy now. Once it was introduced, it was presented at the presentations so you knew right from the beginning that it was to your advantage to own more weeks than one.

Wow, there is a LOT here that I'm going to come back to later because Sunday dinner needs to be cooked and eaten , but for now ....

How will the salesperson answer the question of "what if I ever want to sell it?"

I would hope, truthfully! When we asked, our sales rep said something to the effect of, "Timeshares are not financial investments; their value is in the use of the product. But if you do want to sell down the road, Marriott has a buy-back program for use in certain circumstances. There are also outside resale brokers and an established market." (Perhaps she included this because she saw the sales brochures in our hands.) "People who buy pre-construction generally receive more of a return on their initial outlay than those who buy into finished properties, but very few actually make money in the timeshare market."

Some locations have done very well so buying at pre-construction prices at a location where you like to visit often may not be so dumb. The investment was in quality vacations with your family or friends and an album full of pictures that you will treasure one day.

 

[dioxide45]

I'm finding it interesting that the new internal exchange system is now being discussed in the open by the sales staff. I'm starting to feel that this will more likely be a reality and just speculation..

This isn't new talk. People have mentioned for a couple years how the sales people have mentioned a possible internal exchange system. This new experience means nothing new and nothing has changed. It means nothing more than when the salesperson who said it 6 months ago, 12 months ago, or evern 18 months ago.

From the survey that many of us took several months back it doesn't sound like any owner will be included in the new system. One would have to buy in to it, retail and resale purchasers. Marriott will create it to make money. They would sell the option to owners, not give it out for free. They won't want to exclude a segment of their owner base because that would reduce their profit potential on a new program.

 

[dougp26364]

I don't have any problem at all with Marriott offering a 12/13-month reservation window for the units which you and I bought direct, and a reduced 6/7-month window for your resale unit. That differential gives us both what we're "owed", rewards customer loyalty, and is not legally forbidden by the deeded rights. Works for me.

I have to say that I, even as a direct purchaser, would have a problem with resale owner only having a 6-7 month reservation window. It would essentially gut any resale value out of the units I own. I don't know about you but, I don't plan to live forever and our kids don't really want the burden of annual MF's for something they won't use. Thus, these weeks will eventually have to be sold at some point in time. I want them to have as much value as possible.

We don't have any details about any internal exchange program and we all know that salesman are notorious for only telling half the story. While I can't see Marriott restricting resale purchasers right to reserve their week like anyone else, I can see them restricting their rights to any internal exchange program. Other developers do this very same thing.

For instance, resale purchasers with DRI who buy a deeded week are excluded from their internal exchange program completely unless they buy something from the developer as well. At least with this rumor about resale buyers only having 6-7 months, if it's about internal exchanges, they'll have that priviledge. If they bought a deeded week with DRI, they wouldn't even have that.

I most definately do NOT want the reservation window shortened for resale purchases. That would hurt every Marriott owner or their estate at some point in time. I would not object nearly as bad if the only thing restricted was the internal exchange window for resale buyers. While it would still hurt resale values to some extent, Marriott would still be giving resale owners what they purchased. A unit that they could reserve and use at the 12-13 month window or exchange through I.I. at the 12-13 month window. All they wouldn't have is internal exchange privlidges until the 6 month window.