Marriott Maintenance Fee Increases

[pspercy]

Are the MF comparisons apples to apples ?
In other words do they all include reserves for furniture replacement and other similar things?

 

[Miner49er]

Timeshare maintenance fees are liked buying a new automobile.
The Maintenance on a new automobile are very low the first few years. But the maintenance on a new automobile will gradually increase year after year. IMHO

I, can remember when maintenance for a two bedroom Villa were under $300.00 per year. Now, that same two bedroom Villa maintenance fees are over $2000.00 per year.

Good analogy, Pedro.

A similar analogy is condo maintenance fees: as a condo owner and longtime HOA board member, 5% a year feels about right to me. At both new timeshares and new condos, the developer sets maintenance fees deliberately low to attract buyers, since all facilities are sparkling new and there's little set-aside for future replacements. Over time things slowly start to wear out and need replacing, requiring either higher maint. fees or special assessments. Eventually, successor managements start to realize that - OMG! - the reserves never included money for replacement of things like elevators, doors and windows, since "those things never wear out, right?"

I bought Westin Princeville when it was new in 2008, and an extra charge for "reserve replacement " (aka a special assessment) started showing up on my annual maintenance fee around 2020.

 

[Miner49er]

Are the MF comparisons apples to apples ?
In other words do they all include reserves for furniture replacement and other similar things?

Good question. I've never seen a listing of what's provided for in the reserves in my Hawaii timeshare, only the annual budget (operating expenses, plus a single line for "additions to reserves.") This could vary depending on how closely timeshares are regulated in each state.

 

[pedro47]

Are the MF comparisons apples to apples ?
In other words do they all include reserves for furniture replacement and other similar things?

Yes! MF, should include reserve for furniture replacement and other similar items.I’m only speaking about MF, for the Marriott’s Manor Club at Ford Colony in Williamsburg, Va.

Some Examples: replacing the boilers, interior painting of all villas before prime season demand, removing danger dead trees,replacing hvac systems, roof replacement.

 

[TUGBrian]

reserves at least in florida are restricted to expenditures on long term repairs/replacements of infrastructure or similar items(roofs, sewer/water drains, hvac systems etc)...not for regular expenses.

 

[jp10558]

But you have to use RCI to trade. That is a turnoff right there. You should ask the HOA board and management to add II has an option for exchanges. You would be much happier. Not much available in II for anything Estes Park, same with RCI, but at least II has lower exchange fees, the ability to re-trade, and you will have nicer resorts to choose from.

I just want to give the other perspective - II is much harder to find an exchange and much more opaque about what you'd get. I think everyone who touts the "nicer resorts" both knows which resorts to avoid in II (because some are really really bad like Villa Roma), and either are exchanging with a Marriott Trader or better. I got 2 "good traders" with good weeks, and yet for most of the sightings that are "nicer resorts" - so are just sitting there - they don't show up at all for me. So I wouldn't expect any non-Marriott to see them.

RCI on the other hand - while I don't know that it's great to exchange given the higher exchange fee and prevalent resort fees (though I'm starting to hear reports of those in more II resorts too) -it's straightforward what points or TPU you get in RCI so you'll know what might/could match (Granted I just have corporate accounts, but it's right there on the listings what the points would be). And you have access to just way more resorts and availability. Are they all top tier? No. But if you want to have a lot more luck finding a resort near a random other thing, RCI is hands down better IME. Their filters are also a lot better and easier to use when searching for cash stays too. I think, though I don't know, with a individual RCI account you get either points or TPUs and so don't have to do a whole week for a week too - I think you can pick up various on sale weeks for sometimes tiny TPUs also.

I've had many great stays at average resorts via RCI, including so far mostly enjoying my current stay at Jackson Gore Inn in Vermont.

 

[Retired2025 aka AlmostRetired]

I purchased the Monarch and Resort World of Orland, both resale in 1996. The resorts had the same quality ranking in both II and RCI. The MF’s were both around 425 give or take 20 dollars. The Resort World was a trader, often being traded to the Monarch so I could turn my Monarch into Reward Points. In my 19 years of ownership I never stayed at the resort, even when going to Orlando. I paid 12,000 for the Monarch and 3000 for Resort World. Resort World MF increases where significantly less than the Monarch and the quality suffered over time based on trading value in II. When I got rid of it in 2015, the MF was about in the 700s, the Monarch was about 1200. The only Marriott I was able to trade for was Seaview in December. To get rid of it, I paid 2015 MF and gave it away. The management company changed 3 times over that span. The Monarch I sold for 17,000 (oceanfront unit) in 2021. You can’t have managed MF while maintaining quality in both usage and trade value.

This being said, at this point of my life, increase MFs of my Marriotts will impact my ownership in the next 10 years or sooner.

 

[pedro47]

I forgot to include management fees and bad debts in MF.

 

[bobby]

Location is a factor. I have timeshares from the early 80s in Fl, NH and Nantucket. Nantucket labor today is at least $50-75/hr. A 2 BR tiny cottage sells for over $1,000,000. So that maintenance fee has gone from super small when developers still owned and were building to about $2,000 today while stripping out items that were originally included like check-in, RCI exchanges, selling off all the tennis courts, maintenance and office buildings, etc. NH and FL are up but still under $1,000 in 45 years.

 

[winger]

Location is a factor....to about $2,000 today while stripping out items that were originally included like check-in, ....

What do you mean by check-in no longer included?

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

I was going thru some old paperwork and found information from when I bought my Timeshare at Summit Watch in 1994. The fee for a 2 bedroom lockoff was $478 and for 2025 the fee was $2312. I wonder how that compares to the inflation rate over almost 30 years.

$478 in 1994 dollars buys $1,037 today.

 

[pedro47]

LOL. Where! That must be a 1 bedroom unit without a full kitchen. Just joking. There are some II Getaways Exchanges for a two bedroom unit with a full kitchen that are exchanging for over $600.00 for a week in Orlando., FL.

IMHO, $1,037.00 is very low in 2025.

 

[iftravel]

I was going thru some old paperwork and found information from when I bought my Timeshare at Summit Watch in 1994. The fee for a 2 bedroom lockoff was $478 and for 2025 the fee was $2312. I wonder how that compares to the inflation rate over almost 30 years.

$478 in 1994 dollars buys $1,037 today.

Inflation is not a great measure while afordability is. I am citing Fed's data on median household income. In 1994, it's 38,780, and in 2023 it's 100, 800 (assume in 2025, it's 115,000). So roughly speaking for an average American familty owning this particular timeshare, in 1994, the burden is 1.2% of their annual income, and in 2025, it jumps to 2.0%.

This is why a lot of families cannot afford timeshares anymore. On the other side, the top 1% may feel differently but I do not have the data to support that (timeshare is not a big deal to them anyway)

Median Family Income in the United States

Graph and download economic data for Median Family Income in the United States (MEFAINUSA646N) from 1953 to 2023 about family, median, income, and USA.

fred.stlouisfed.org

 

[Superchief]

The only things I can think of that have similar cost increases over the past twenty years are taxes, health care, and college tuition.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I just want to give the other perspective - II is much harder to find an exchange and much more opaque about what you'd get. I think everyone who touts the "nicer resorts" both knows which resorts to avoid in II (because some are really really bad like Villa Roma), and either are exchanging with a Marriott Trader or better. I got 2 "good traders" with good weeks, and yet for most of the sightings that are "nicer resorts" - so are just sitting there - they don't show up at all for me. So I wouldn't expect any non-Marriott to see them.

RCI on the other hand - while I don't know that it's great to exchange given the higher exchange fee and prevalent resort fees (though I'm starting to hear reports of those in more II resorts too) -it's straightforward what points or TPU you get in RCI so you'll know what might/could match (Granted I just have corporate accounts, but it's right there on the listings what the points would be). And you have access to just way more resorts and availability. Are they all top tier? No. But if you want to have a lot more luck finding a resort near a random other thing, RCI is hands down better IME. Their filters are also a lot better and easier to use when searching for cash stays too. I think, though I don't know, with a individual RCI account you get either points or TPUs and so don't have to do a whole week for a week too - I think you can pick up various on sale weeks for sometimes tiny TPUs also.

I've had many great stays at average resorts via RCI, including so far mostly enjoying my current stay at Jackson Gore Inn in Vermont.

I used to exchange into Hiltons near Disney with RCI and loved those opportunities. Now Hilton charges $25 per day X 7 days, $175 + $299 exchange fee. And RCI's insurance doesn't give me back the $299 and costs a lot to add to the exchange. Retrade with II is $89 and it works better than RCI's insurance. I can trade up to 3 times in a year from the date on the exchange. So an exchange I have for 5/22/2026, I have until 5/22/2027 to use that week. I always use my weeks. I sometimes move them a bit more than I should but I do use every one.

I haven't exchanged into a bad II or RCI resort in many years.

Comparison of Hilton exchange through RCI vs. Marriott exchange through II:

If I can get a week in a 2 bedroom for 20 TPU's, that would make that same week cost me (with my Val Chatelle TPU's at $47 per) $940 + $299 + $175. Total of $1,414. If I get a bargain, last-minute week at 10 TPU's (I never plan last-minute), it's going to take $470 off of that total, but that has not happened yet.

A December date I was thinking of grabbing at Hilton Tuscany is 43 TPU's, 12/5-12/12. Total cost is insane. But a November week 11/14-11/21 is only 7 TPU's. Why the difference? That November week is a bargain, absolutely. That would be the one to grab, and I would grab it, but it's not the Sunday, and I did get a DVC already for that date. December is not busier than the 3rd week of November. I don't get it.

With my Grand Palms I could do better than that for cost, but I still resent paying the $25 fee.. TPU's are $22.28 per for 2025 for Grand Palms ($1248 and 56 TPUs). I sold Grand Palms, owned five at one time. Yes, five. Believe it or not, those were very hard to sell took 4 years of advertising. Sold the last one to the same lady who bought one two years before.

I picked a week in November for my RCI Points at Tuscany, 70,500 RCI Points. I pay .011 per point for my points with Mansfield Resort.

$775 + $299 exchange fee + $175. $1,249. Not cheap but not bad. I would pay it sometime and probably will to use exchange power. Not cheaper with Wyndham at $7 per 1,000 points X 165.

I can exchange into the Marriott resorts in Orlando, Marriott-Marriott, studio to 2 bedroom, almost anytime I want a week, maybe not a New Year's week, $199 exchange fee + $118 (unit size upgrade). I consider the studios to be 1/3 of the cost in MF's, but I have no proof of that, I don't own a studio, but my Sheraton small one bedroom is $579 of the $1633 MF's, which is 35%. That is not too far off from a guess as to the value of a studio. Of a $1760 MF, my studio is $616 + $49.50 lockoff fee ($99 to lockoff a 2 bed to two units).

$616 + $199 + $118 + $49.50= $982.50

The reason I always liked Foxrun is $995 (2025) maintenance fee + exchange fee of $229 to get a 2 bedroom Marriott in Orlando or Disney resort. That's still less than RCI, so I keep it. I even have a low TDI week, week 52. I am always happy to get a Disney with those.

 

[hcarman]

That’s a 5.2% annualized increase over 31 years.

We casually throw around on these boards that MFs increase by 4%-5% every year, but that does mean that (at 5%) they double about every 14 years. Give it a 3-4 decades and it becomes unsustainable. Most incomes don’t grow that fast with cost of living adjustments.

The CPI increased at 2.5% annualized over that same period. That doubles every 28 years…


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Totally agree - many people I know get less than that in salary increases every year. What was once affordable for middle income America is quickly becoming not affordable. What worries me is that the more people that default because they simply can't pay anymore, the more increases we will see for bad debt - so a vicious cycle. I remember our first presentation when they said by buying a vacation club you were hedging inflation and would have vacations for life. The sales person drew on the board that the average hotel goes up 5-7% a year. They didn't mention that so would the vacation club. I believe they had it at less than 2%.

 

[davidvel]

Good analogy, Pedro.

A similar analogy is condo maintenance fees: as a condo owner and longtime HOA board member, 5% a year feels about right to me. At both new timeshares and new condos, the developer sets maintenance fees deliberately low to attract buyers, since all facilities are sparkling new and there's little set-aside for future replacements. Over time things slowly start to wear out and need replacing, requiring either higher maint. fees or special assessments. Eventually, successor managements start to realize that - OMG! - the reserves never included money for replacement of things like elevators, doors and windows, since "those things never wear out, right?"

I bought Westin Princeville when it was new in 2008, and an extra charge for "reserve replacement " (aka a special assessment) started showing up on my annual maintenance fee around 2020.

That is not the case in CA and many states. In that example, most people do not set aside money for future car repairs.

But when establishing an HOA that is responsible for future replacements, a complex reserve study must be performed using the useful life of items, and likely future cost. Then the reserve portion of the MF is calculated. This reserve amount is paid in each owners 1st month's MF payment, so that when the roof etc. needs replacement in, for example 20 years, the reserve fund has enough money to do it. Otherwise there would be a big special assessment every time a major item needed replacement.

In theory, the reserve amount is the same on month 1 as it will be on month 240 (subject to increasing costs that are periodically recalculated.)

 

[DRH90277]

Might be time to consider running for a HOA Board. Lots of good and knowledgable people on this website could have a vote and an impact. Stacking the BOD's with Marriott employees and/or former Marriott employees seems a bit of a fools errand. We can't vote for those who don't run for the seats.

 

[dioxide45]

Might be time to consider running for a HOA Board. Lots of good and knowledgable people on this website could have a vote and an impact. Stacking the BOD's with Marriott employees and/or former Marriott employees seems a bit of a fools errand. We can't vote for those who don't run for the seats.

We need to first get more owners involved in the voting process. Unfortunately Marriott controls more weeks at these resorts than owners who vote their proxies. Marriott votes in a block, owners split their votes. So Marriott is ultimately deciding who the board members will be at most resorts.

 

[pedro47]

Many owners do not return their proxy vote to the HOA. Thus, when Marriott’s vote in a block, their votes decides the board members makeup.

 

[bazzap]

Might be time to consider running for a HOA Board. Lots of good and knowledgable people on this website could have a vote and an impact. Stacking the BOD's with Marriott employees and/or former Marriott employees seems a bit of a fools errand. We can't vote for those who don't run for the seats.

In Europe and Asia, MVC (and I believe still Marriott too) current and past employees and relatives cannot stand for the HOA Board, so it is genuine owners only and quite a few of us TUG members have been / still are on those Boards.
However, as the number of delinquencies and revocations increase at these resorts, MVC with their greater level of ownership do have an increasing say over which owners actually get elected to the Boards.


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[cubigbird]

We need to first get more owners involved in the voting process. Unfortunately Marriott controls more weeks at these resorts than owners who vote their proxies. Marriott votes in a block, owners split their votes. So Marriott is ultimately deciding who the board members will be at most resorts.

@dioxide45 I’d be curious to know if the blitz by sales to sell owners to turn in their deeds for Club Points has accelerated this. Once a deed is in Abound and owned by the trust, doesn’t MVC get to vote those units for the underlying resort BODs?

 

[dioxide45]

@dioxide45 I’d be curious to know if the blitz by sales to sell owners to turn in their deeds for Club Points has accelerated this. Once a deed is in Abound and owned by the trust, doesn’t MVC get to vote those units for the underlying resort BODs?

Certainly the reacquisition of deeds for the trust has given MVC more control. They control the votes for the weeks held by the trust.

 

[Superchief]

Might be time to consider running for a HOA Board. Lots of good and knowledgable people on this website could have a vote and an impact. Stacking the BOD's with Marriott employees and/or former Marriott employees seems a bit of a fools errand. We can't vote for those who don't run for the seats.

I recently submitted my application for a board position at Oceana Palms. This resort is primarily controlled by the trust, so it is important for the owner board members to have some input. I will let you know if my application is accepted.

 

[MikeM132]

I was going thru some old paperwork and found information from when I bought my Timeshare at Summit Watch in 1994. The fee for a 2 bedroom lockoff was $478 and for 2025 the fee was $2312. I wonder how that compares to the inflation rate over almost 30 years.

The furniture they update every few years from the Bill Marriott Timeshare Furnishings is not cheap. A couch as comfortable as Marriott buys for your unit is thousands of dollars. Ha ha. I think Marriott buys their furniture to enhance their massage business.