Marriott latest sales tactic

[Retired2025 aka AlmostRetired]

I wonder how many Monarch owners sold to Marriott or thru resale to get MGO or some other HHI resort.

Specific to what MVCI owns, based on a conversation with a board member, most Marriott owned weeks were acquired from non MF paying owners of low season ownerships. I did sell my Monarch units and purchase a MGO. I needed the larger foot print.

If Marriott owns 40% of the weeks at Monarch and they are mostly low season, the remaining owners should thank them for subsidizing their maintenance fees.
If Marriott did not take back those low season weeks, odds are a lot of them would have defaulted, with the resort having to take them back and increase the maintenance fees for the remaining owners.

You are 100% correct. MVC, did take the units in default. The units are in fact a burden to all owners until MVC took them and a burden to point owners once they dd.

 

[Luvtoride]

Polokid57, we attended an Encore Presentation at Grande Ocean in Hilton Head, yesterday.
The sales staff tried a similar approach with us. They offered to buy back 2 of our less desirable weeks (low point value with high MF). They offered $16.60 PP, the price at which our Encore package was purchased. We needed to buy 2,500 additional points (above the approximately 4,000 the 2 weeks were worth) @ the same $16.60 point price, or about $42,000. We immediately said no, which was after we had told the first sales rep we were NOT spending a single dollar that day.
The only additional attempt they made was to try to sell us another Encore package to return to HHI, with a special deal only for members like us, for $2,100, including 200k Marriott Bonvoy points. We again said no.
Yes, they use the scare tactic of faster MF increases on weeks vs. Points as the benefit for considering deals like these. I didn’t bother to crunch the numbers to determine the payback years to make the deal worthwhile, but I doubt it would be in my remaining lifetime.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DanCali]

Some nice weeks you have there. It'd be a shame if anything happened to them....

 

[bazzap]

See bolded wording in section 5. h. of the enrollment agreement linked below.

https://www.marriottvacationsworldwide.com/common/cms/mvc/pdfs/helpfulTools/enrolledOwner/legalDocs/eu.enroll.agmt.english.pdf

Thanks Fasttr, Hindsite, Red Elephant..
I guess there are likely many more “change” clauses built in to MVC’s agreements, which could change all sorts of things in the programme with negative impact on Owners?
All I can say then is thank goodness they have never yet invoked this clause for any of our 7 home resorts in the last 15 years.
Long may this continue

 

[dougp26364]

Attended a sales presentation at Marriott yesterday. I own two weeks plus lots of trust points. They told me they are phasing out the weeks program. They said they can contractually devalue my weeks at any time ( that is-reduce the points I receive if I trade my weeks for points). They also said maintenance fees could increase significantly on my Florida weeks due to hurricanes. (Currently they go up around 4% per year)

So they offered to buy back my weeks at 2 1/2 times what I originally paid for them in 2008. So I paid 30k. They would buy back at 75k. But I would have to then use the 75k to buy trust points. Which actually would be a good deal. The kicker is-to do this deal-I have to also buy at least 2000 MORE trust points at $18 per point. So I’d have to layout $36000 to let them buy me out of my weeks.

When I told them I’m perfectly happy with my weeks-they ramped up the pressure. They told me maintenance fees will soon go up 12% per year. And in five years that would cost me $40k more. So if I do this deal I’d save $4000
( $40k minus $ 36k)

I wouldn’t budge. Then they told me they might reduce the point value of my week by 50%. I said I think owners would get pretty upset,no? They said no-most owners got rid of thier weeks. So I asked them how many weeks owners are there compared to points owners. They didn’t know.

After trr we nor three more tries they finally gave up on me.

Yo Marriott owners-I left the presentation and spent the rest of the day crunching numbers. There is no way this deal works out to the owner’s benefit. Beware of Marriott scare tactics

What you currently own will be worthless, so you must buy something new to keep what you already have, is the oldest trick in the book. We’ve heard a version of this lie starting with our first owners update in 1999. All it really means is that they’ve run out of new things to sell so they’re putting lipstick on a pig and reselling the same old thing. There is nothing new under the sun. Good for you not jumping on the lie.

BTW, it ends the conversation rather quickly when you put it back to them in those terms.

 

[dannybaker]

We definitely prefer weeks over points.

 

[TheTimeTraveler]

We definitely prefer weeks over points.

I agree. And, under most circumstances owning weeks is a far ongoing lower price of ownership versus owning points............






.

 

[dougp26364]

I think I’ll have this YouTube short queued up next time I attend a presentation

 

[Bodie]

I wish timeshare sales staff had to put their words in writing during a presentation for the customer to read alone.

Attended a sales presentation at Marriott yesterday. I own two weeks plus lots of trust points. They told me they are phasing out the weeks program. They said they can contractually devalue my weeks at any time ( that is-reduce the points I receive if I trade my weeks for points). They also said maintenance fees could increase significantly on my Florida weeks due to hurricanes. (Currently they go up around 4% per year)

So they offered to buy back my weeks at 2 1/2 times what I originally paid for them in 2008. So I paid 30k. They would buy back at 75k. But I would have to then use the 75k to buy trust points. Which actually would be a good deal. The kicker is-to do this deal-I have to also buy at least 2000 MORE trust points at $18 per point. So I’d have to layout $36000 to let them buy me out of my weeks.

When I told them I’m perfectly happy with my weeks-they ramped up the pressure. They told me maintenance fees will soon go up 12% per year. And in five years that would cost me $40k more. So if I do this deal I’d save $4000
( $40k minus $ 36k)

I wouldn’t budge. Then they told me they might reduce the point value of my week by 50%. I said I think owners would get pretty upset,no? They said no-most owners got rid of thier weeks. So I asked them how many weeks owners are there compared to points owners. They didn’t know.

After trr we nor three more tries they finally gave up on me.

Yo Marriott owners-I left the presentation and spent the rest of the day crunching numbers. There is no way this deal works out to the owner’s benefit. Beware of Marriott scare tactics

I started to notice hard sell tactics about 10 years ago. When we first signed on in 2004 for weeks and then in 2012 for points, it had much to do with the salespeople who were straight forward in answering all questions and offered all kinds of useful advice. They were also two of the most successful agents in the company. Needless to say they are both gone. What a shame that MVC has allowed the process to become the province of dishonest hucksters. It's a reflection of how MVC, itself, is just not the company it was.

 

[davidvel]

I started to notice hard sell tactics about 10 years ago. When we first signed on in 2004 for weeks and then in 2012 for points, it had much to do with the salespeople who were straight forward in answering all questions and offered all kinds of useful advice. They were also two of the most successful agents in the company. Needless to say they are both gone. What a shame that MVC has allowed the process to become the province of dishonest hucksters. It's a reflection of how MVC, itself, is just not the company it was.

Honest genuine sales people can't sell the points system. It is too much of a rip-off.

 

[davidvel]

What you currently own will be worthless, so you must buy something new to keep what you already have, is the oldest trick in the book. We’ve heard a version of this lie starting with our first owners update in 1999. All it really means is that they’ve run out of new things to sell so they’re putting lipstick on a pig and reselling the same old thing. There is nothing new under the sun. Good for you not jumping on the lie.

BTW, it ends the conversation rather quickly when you put it back to them in those terms.

Exactly. "You keep saying what you sold previously is now crap. I refuse to trust that what you are trying to sell me now won't also be turned to crap."

 

[gerryburguera]

I started to notice hard sell tactics about 10 years ago. When we first signed on in 2004 for weeks and then in 2012 for points, it had much to do with the salespeople who were straight forward in answering all questions and offered all kinds of useful advice. They were also two of the most successful agents in the company. Needless to say they are both gone. What a shame that MVC has allowed the process to become the province of dishonest hucksters. It's a reflection of how MVC, itself, is just not the company it was.

We own weeks since 1994. Never bought points. I do remember when presentations were highly enjoyable. Sales reps were courteous, knowledgeable and gave good advice on usage methods, exchange tips and resort recommendations.

Now, these people are a razor thin notch above used car salesmen. Outright lies and unvarnished truths. Our last presentation made us feel we would die and end up in timeshare hell for refusing to buy overpriced points.

The MVC sales operation has completely morphed into a snake pit.

 

[goodbadugly]

Don't insult used car salesman!!!

 

[DRH90277]

We own weeks since 1994. Never bought points. I do remember when presentations were highly enjoyable. Sales reps were courteous, knowledgeable and gave good advice on usage methods, exchange tips and resort recommendations.

Now, these people are a razor thin notch above used car salesmen. Outright lies and unvarnished truths. Our last presentation made us feel we would die and end up in timeshare hell for refusing to buy overpriced points.

The MVC sales operation has completely morphed into a snake pit.

 

[DRH90277]

Behavior is catching up with MVC - Watch their stock (VAC) and you'll notice a deterioration of the opinions in the stock market. It might be hard to ascertain which is the worst value, the overpriced points program or the VAC stock.

 

[Red elephant]

Behavior is catching up with MVC - Watch their stock (VAC) and you'll notice a deterioration of the opinions in the stock market. It might be hard to ascertain which is the worst value, the overpriced points program or the VAC stock.

This has not stopped them from continual increase in the price of these points or MF.

 

[cubigbird]

We bought our weeks to use exactly 7 days and don’t convert it to points. Last time I looked 7 days is still 7x24 hour days and we own where we routinely want to travel to. It boggles the minds of sales when I use such astounding logic. Abound is definitely a very expensive product and have yet to find a compelling reason to own it and there’s never a reason to ever purchase retail given that points are points.

 

[DRH90277]

This has not stopped them from continual increase in the price of these points or MF.

Do you think they may have reached a tipping point in the value proposition. If a presentation customer must spend $75,000 to get enough points to stay one summer week at Newport Coast, MVC may have hit a barrier on the demand curve.

 

[Red elephant]

Outra

Do you think they may have reached a tipping point in the value proposition. If a presentation customer must spend $75,000 to get enough points to stay one summer week at Newport Coast, MVC may have hit a barrier on the demand curve.

Outrageous!! Well they cannot continue hiking prices.

 

[Red elephant]

BT

Do you think they may have reached a tipping point in the value proposition. If a presentation customer must spend $75,000 to get enough points to stay one summer week at Newport Coast, MVC may have hit a barrier on the demand curve.

BTW I was told points and weeks prices in Aruba and Spain are going up after 9/30 maybe that is just when attempting to enroll not sure.

 

[davidvel]

Do you think they may have reached a tipping point in the value proposition. If a presentation customer must spend $75,000 to get enough points to stay one summer week at Newport Coast, MVC may have hit a barrier on the demand curve.

That is what is so insane. Literally the retail cost of 4225 points which you need for 2BR at Newport is almost $75,000, plus you have to pay an additional $3,300 a year. All of this for a single week per year. That is what they are selling. Even if you get some "amazing" bundle deal at $7/pt that is $30,000 upfront plus MF. It is unfathomable. No one can sell this being honest. No one.

 

[jellen613]

We attended a virtual presentation yesterday, pretty low pressure, although there was some "fear" incentivizing in that if we should consider buying before the levels get revauled. We own a deeded enrolled week (bought in 2008) and 2500 points (bought in 2012), to total 5200 points. They wanted to sell us a deeded week with low maintenance fees worth 2000 points to get us over the 7000 point mark to get to executive level. We don't have a big family, it typically is only 2 or 3 of us traveling, so to add another week (I think it was around 30K - it was hard to see the fine print on my laptop) with a payment of $442/month, just didn't make any sense. We passed. They were very suprised we didn't want the encore package either (we have done 3, definitely got our money's worth, just not interested currently).

 

[daviator]

The bottom line is that weeks are inherently more valuable than points, which is why they're so eager to take back weeks and charge you more money to replace them with points. If weeks are so worthless, why do they want them so badly?

It's a little bit like somebody offering to enrich you by taking your $20 bill and giving you THREE $5 bills in return. You give me one bill, I'll give you three bills! Such a deal!

The other lie that always amuses me is the claim that weeks MFs are going to rise dramatically, while implying that points MFs will not. Since points MFs are directly related to the MFs of the weeks in the trust, they will rise exactly the same percentage as the MFs of the trust's weeks rise. Depending on what weeks you own and where, the trust MFs could rise even more than your weeks MFs would rise.

 

[dioxide45]

The bottom line is that weeks are inherently more valuable than points, which is why they're so eager to take back weeks and charge you more money to replace them with points. If weeks are so worthless, why do they want them so badly?

It seems they have also upped the equity trade in program. In the past they would give you a credit toward the purchase of new points by giving you the value of what your week originally sold for to the original buyer. Now they seem to be offering a direct trade in. You get the retail value of the points your week is worth. So if you have a week worth 2,150 points, then you get 2150x$17.72. So about $38000. You need to buy at least an additional 2,000 points. Thus, in this example, you need to be coming out with 4,250 Club Points. I suppose it might be an okay value if you have a high MF week that you only ever convert to Club Points.

 

[daviator]

It seems they have also upped the equity trade in program. In the past they would give you a credit toward the purchase of new points by giving you the value of what your week originally sold for to the original buyer. Now they seem to be offering a direct trade in. You get the retail value of the points your week is worth. So if you have a week worth 2,150 points, then you get 2150x$17.72. So about $38000. You need to buy at least 2,000 points. Thus, in this example, you need to be coming out with 4,250 Club Points. I suppose it might be an okay value if you have a high MF week that you only ever convert to Club Points.

Oh, interesting. I’ll be at WDW later this month so it will be interesting to see if they try to offer me that kind of deal.

Yes, in the past they offered to credit you back for the original purchase price of your VOI, but of course it was never an even trade, you had to buy even more and spend another $20K or whatever.

if they start allowing people to literally trade their week in for club points, without any additional purchase, we will know they are really trying to reclaim all the weeks. I don’t expect that to happen anytime soon.