Marriott getting tough with BeachPlace HOA!!!

[Kazakie]

Just an outsiders view (and didn't even cost a penny)

Just an outsiders view (and didn't even cost a penny)

Re: Studio Occupancy Issue: When the HOA announced studio occupancy was being reduced to 3 persons (or 2 adults and 2 pre school children) they did it in isolation without surveying owners.

-> Seems silly, do flat panel TV's take up more space? Did they add furniture to the room? If not then it was built for 4 people, why would the HOA reduce the number??
Winner-> Marriott

[Re: Parking Fees: The HOA plans to raise the parking fee in that terrible garage from the already high $14 to $17 a night bringing in an estimated $894,000 (taxable) income in 2008. Pure greed. The letter states,

“Marriott wants to exclude all MVCI owners from paying our parking fee.”

->I think other resorts have added parking charges, i can understand the argument either way (Free parking for owners OR Free parking for MVCI owners) - but idealy if I were Marriott, i'd like to see consistency.
Winner-> Whatever's consistent with other Marriott timeshares that charge for parking

Re: Flat Panel TVs: Marriott wants a 40” Sony or LG flat panel TV in the living room, but the Board wants the smaller, cheap 37” Olevia instead, and proposes that Marriott pay the difference if they continue to insist or give up some fees. If you do a décor upgrade, do it right. A 37” widescreen flat panel TV is the same height as an old 25” TV and really too small for a living room these days. The extra cost of about $15 a week is minimal if the HOA really wants a ‘wow’ effect instead of going cheap like in the past. Instead, they unrealistically planned to have no MF increase and that tells me the new décor will be a grave disappointment.

-> 90% of occupants won't notice or care about 3" more of diagonal space (as long as they're flat panel, as opposed to a tube tv). How many people noticed when tube tv's went from 25" to 27"? This is one where I can totally agree with the HOA.
Winner-> HOA

 

[pwrshift]

John ... Based on 224 two-bdrm suites that's about $85 a week. Do you really think you'd get more from a no-name manager that charges only $21.25 a week?

We appreciate your insight, but do you actually own a Marriott?

Brian

Wow! $1 million in management fees? Thats about 4 times the average for a third party management firm. What the heck are they doing for that type of fee and how can things get run down of they are doing the job correctly?

... Thats a lot of money for a name.

 

[short]

All buildings lost trading power including the Marriotts

Wow, Hoc, that is troublesome! If I were an owner I'd be very upset. Wouldn't that change your standing and opportunities for exchanging? Marriott has more exchange value than a non-branded resort. Wow!

Also, for other Marriott owners (like me) this means we would have one less resort in our pool. That could be troubling, but we've got the new one in Florida on the west coast being built to even the count. Still, I'd rather have more choices for exchange within Marriott. What happened to the owners from the Vail resorts when Marriott backed away? Did they lose exchange power?

I own 2 summer weeks in Cedar and Birch. The 2007 weeks both have weak trading power and I believe it has more to do with the Clubhouse renovations, refurbishments and general turmoil than the management company. The Cedar week actually is the stronger of the two weeks, possibly because it is week 29 vs Birch being week 24. Both weeks for 2008 are being offered AC's.

I traded the Cedar 2006 week for a Marriott Custom House April 2007 week after Cedar lost there Marriott affiliation. I deposited Cedar 2008 to RCI where it gets a VRI priority.

I will likely be trading the Birch week and the AC during flexchange(something I frequently do anyway) using the Marriott priority.

In theory, prime summer Colorado mountain resorts should trade better than they do. They both would fit a family of 6. Vail in the summer would make a great vacation destination with lots to do. Kids are out of school. All deposits will be taken, even those deposited late. The weeks are both offered AC's which would indicate that II wants all the weeks they can get during that timeframe. I think II has placed a damper on trading power because of the quality issue. If Beachplace suffers from quality issues and management turmoil they will likely suffer trading power reductions also irrespective of whether Marriott stays or goes.

Short

 

[pwrshift]

Thanks Kazakie ... I've put my comments below in blue:

Brian

The studio occupancy change from 4 to 3 persons was an HOA idea to cut down on transient damage during Spring Break and had nothing to do with TV's. After the redecoration after Spring Break the HOA wants only 3 people in the studio (or 2 parents with 2 pre-school children) and no exceptions even if your 2 kids are 6 year old twins. Dumb decision when security deposits could solve the problem easily. This makes BeachPlace the only lockoff suite with a 3 'adult' occupancy limit in the Marriott system...yet the studio is 450 sq ft, half the size of some homes.

-> Seems silly, do flat panel TV's take up more space? Did they add furniture to the room? If not then it was built for 4 people, why would the HOA reduce the number??
Winner-> Marriott

-------------------------------------------

I think there are only a couple of Marriott timeshares that charge for parking - Boston Custom House is one but it is a private enterprise. The parking fee was put in to keep control of runaway MF, and as long as owners aren't charged I support it ... but to move it from zero to $12 to $14 to $17 a night in 3 years is quite excessive and the return isn't as great as was expected due to taxation.


->I think other resorts have added parking charges, i can understand the argument either way (Free parking for owners OR Free parking for MVCI owners) - but idealy if I were Marriott, i'd like to see consistency.
Winner-> Whatever's consistent with other Marriott timeshares that charge for parking

-------------------------------------------------
Go to Best Buy and take a side-by-side look at a 40" widescreen and a 37" widescreen and you'll see quite a difference. If you measure the square inch comparison, I'd think they would be about 40% larger. Flat screens in the 30-39" range are really bedroom TV's now. Smaller ones are for kitchens (or bathrooms in nice hotels).

I think you'll have to look far to find a Marriott without Sony or LG ... it must be a 'corporate' thingy.


-> 90% of occupants won't notice or care about 3" more of diagonal space (as long as they're flat panel, as opposed to a tube tv). How many people noticed when tube tv's went from 25" to 27"? This is one where I can totally agree with the HOA.
Winner-> HOA

 

[timeos2]

John ... Based on 224 two-bdrm suites that's about $85 a week. Do you really think you'd get more from a no-name manager that charges only $21.25 a week?

We appreciate your insight, but do you actually own a Marriott?

Brian

No, no Marriott now. But resort operation is similar no matter what name its under.

What are they doing that's worth $85 per owner/week? Until a couple years ago that was more than our reserve fee!

It sounds more like a franchise fee than management. Management is front desk, collections, reservations & operations. Unless that includes all labor (in which case its too low) that is way too much for simple management in my experience. If I was on that Board I'd be looking for a big reduction.

 

[Icarus]

Marriott's fees are based on a percentage of the MFs. This is true at all Marriott properties as far as I know. At the end of the day, the percentage might vary, because each property has their own management contract.

It's hard to just compare the base amount of the fee and say that it's x times the national average. The fees are really based on the number of units and the amount of work required. BP is probably much larger than the average timeshare, and as a beach property, there's probably a lot more maint than an average non-beach front property.

But I guess you shouldn't let that stop you from advising owners there to dump Marriott, even though you don't own there yourself.

-David

 

[AwayWeGo]

No-Name, Shmo-Name.

Do you really think you'd get more from a no-name manager that charges only $21.25 a week?

Maybe there are no-name timeshare management firms out there, I don't know.

However that may or may not be, the only independent professional timeshare resort management service firm that I do know about -- Vacation Resorts International -- is hardly no-name.

( Not that there's anything wrong with that. )

-- Alan Cole, McLean (Fairfax County), Virginia, USA.​

 

[Icarus]

I wouldn't buy an Olevia tv for my home either.

Marriott wants to maintain a standard at all their properties. For better or worse, they've decided that one way do to that is to use certain size and brand name flat panel TVs.

The replacement cost of TVs and other things should be amortized over the expected life of the TV. That's got to be at least 5 years for a TV.

Has BP done replacement fund surveys and do they not have enough money in the replacement fund to cover the cost of the TVs that Marriott wants to use?

They also do the same thing with the brand of coffee served on all Marriott properties and many other things. Ideally, the HOA should be able to take advantage of the volume prices and contracts Marriott has with their vendors when making purchases like this.

-David

 

[Kazakie]

More comments, in red

-> Seems silly, do flat panel TV's take up more space? Did they add furniture to the room? If not then it was built for 4 people, why would the HOA reduce the number??
Winner-> Marriott

In other words the reduction in occupancy has nothing to do with space - then that's a managment/deposit issue - I still believe it should be 4 in the Lockoff
-------------------------------------------

->I think other resorts have added parking charges, i can understand the argument either way (Free parking for owners OR Free parking for MVCI owners) - but idealy if I were Marriott, i'd like to see consistency.
Winner-> Whatever's consistent with other Marriott timeshares that charge for parking

Waiohai was putting it in when we were there in Jan 2007, Maui owners lost their free parking to build the new buildings - current owners had to love that - you get a more crowded resort (new towers) AND lose your free parking.

Here's a sampling:

Marriott's BeachPlace Towers
On-site parking, fee: 17 USD daily

Marriott's Ocean Pointe
Complimentary on-site parking

Marriott's Newport Coast Villas
Complimentary on-site parking

Marriott's Grand Chateau
Complimentary valet parking

Frenchman's Reef & Morning Star Marriott Beach Resort
Complimentary on-site parking

Marriott's Ko Olina Beach Club
On-site parking, fee: 20.94 USD daily (BeachPlace has a new goal)
Valet parking, fee: 26.18 USD daily

Marriott's Maui Ocean Club
On-site parking, fee: 6 USD daily
Valet parking, fee: 12 USD daily

Marriott's Waiohai Beach Club
On-site parking, fee: 7 USD daily

Marriott's Kauai Beach Club
On-site parking, fee: 7 USD daily
Valet parking, fee: 10 USD daily

Marriott's Custom House
On-site parking, fee: 7 USD hourly
Valet parking, fee: 38 USD daily

Marriott's Timber Lodge
Valet parking, fee: 17 USD daily



-------------------------------------------------
Go to Best Buy and take a side-by-side look at a 40" widescreen and a 37" widescreen and you'll see quite a difference. If you measure the square inch comparison, I'd think they would be about 40% larger. Flat screens in the 30-39" range are really bedroom TV's now. Smaller ones are for kitchens (or bathrooms in nice hotels).

I think you'll have to look far to find a Marriott without Sony or LG ... it must be a 'corporate' thingy.


-> 90% of occupants won't notice or care about 3" more of diagonal space (as long as they're flat panel, as opposed to a tube tv). How many people noticed when tube tv's went from 25" to 27"? This is one where I can totally agree with the HOA.
Winner-> HOA

Lets trust math a bit more than a Best Buy sales rep
A 37" TV is ~20x31
A 40" TV is ~22x33

So they are less than 17% larger [you were about 40% right ;-) ]. Are you really arguing that most (not some) people on vacation at a beachside resort are really going to miss 2" of extra screen? If you surveyed occupants after their stay and asked if they had a 37" or 40" TV, I'm pretty confident 90% of guest wouldn't know.

My guess is Marriott wants banding consistency and more bargaining leverage more than they care about 2". If I was on an HOA, I might have a hard time ponying up money just so Marriott can negotiate a lower rate with Sony and LG because we paid for 500 Sony or LG tv's.

 

[timeos2]

Marriott's fees are based on a percentage of the MFs. This is true at all Marriott properties as far as I know. At the end of the day, the percentage might vary, because each property has their own management contract.

It's hard to just compare the base amount of the fee and say that it's x times the national average. The fees are really based on the number of units and the amount of work required. BP is probably much larger than the average timeshare, and as a beach property, there's probably a lot more maint than an average non-beach front property.

But I guess you shouldn't let that stop you from advising owners there to dump Marriott, even though you don't own there yourself.

-David

I actually said they may NOT want to change management cos if that means losing the Marriott brandijg. But if I were an owner and fees where that high and still doesn't cover "standard" Marriott items I'd sure be asking questions. Having a brand name and high fees doesn't mean things are being handled correctly. I'd trust the Board over Marriott until its shown to be wrong.

Again there is nothing magical about running any resort. Beach or not, 224 units is not that large (although there are plenty dmaller). Getting value for your fees is always the goal as well as having an up to date & well maintained resort. It sounds like both may be lacking under Matriotts high cost watch.

 

[Steel5Rings]

Never mind the Sony vs. LG issue on TV's....wait until Marriott comes in and demands which contractor the resort can use to make upgrades.

At Cedar Streamside, we had selected a local contractor at a reasonable price to install the "Marriott Required" granite countertops........Marriott rejected the local contractor and said that Cedar had to use one of Marriott's preferred contractors from out of the area.....which of course cost more money to the HOA........was never a question if whether the firm we selected could do the work, in fact, I bet that our firm in Vail likely put some nice granite counters in many of the high priced homes in the area,,,,but no, Marriott tells you use the firm from Denver that is approved or else......finally we just walked.

Marriott made it so hard and so costly to comply we had no choice.....never mind the fact that Marriott had managed the place for years and never lifted a finger to alert the HOA of need upgrades before the contract was expiring....Marriott let the place rot and says we offered you a deal to stay with us....never mind the cost and hurdles of their bad faith offer.

I am telling you folks at BeachPlace....be careful......with new units coming in at Ocean Pointe, Crystal Shores and a slowing housing market.....great location or not Marriott DOES NOT need you enough to blink first.....with no active sales there the financial incentive for them to stay are small.

I am not a Marriott basher like some. I love MCVI, generally have gotten great value for my money and stayed in far better accomadations than I likely could afford otherwise. But the Streamside experience runs counter to the "Marriott Way", runs counter to the salesman pitch about Marriott being your "vacation partner"......Streamside made it clear that Marriott is a business just like any other......Ford closes car plants....Marriott closes hotels and opts out of timeshare resorts......let's not forget Swallowtail and Spicebush too.

 

[Icarus]

It sounds like both may be lacking under Matriotts high cost watch.

I don't know, John. All expenses have to be approved by the board no matter who is managing the operation. It sounds like in this case, the HOA has not been approving expenses to keep the place up. But I don't really know, since I'm not an owner or board member there. But the board is the entity that decided to change the max occupancy rules for their units, not Marriott. The board apparently decided to do that to cut down on the amount of damage done to units during spring break, but they could have done it differently. (deposits, inspections, etc.)

It sounds like this property has multiple problems. Swapping out the management company may not be the answer to their problems, but it might save them some money and in the process they would lose the Marriott branding, which is what most owners bought into in the first place. But they could probably get the cheap TVs if they swap out the management company.

-David

 

[dougp26364]

......Also, for other Marriott owners (like me) this means we would have one less resort in our pool. That could be troubling, but we've got the new one in Florida on the west coast being built to even the count. Still, I'd rather have more choices for exchange within Marriott.....

Don't forget Oceana Palms opening about 50 miles north of BPT and 1 mile north of Ocean Pointe. Occupancy in the first of two towers is expected in 2010 and pre-construction sales are suppose to begin tomorrow.

 

[thinze3]

I am not sure that comparing Streamside at Vail to BeachPlace is apples to apples.

A good percentage of Colorado timeshares have weeks in certain seasons that are virtually worthless, and therefore spending any amount of money just wouldn't make sense to those owners. BeachPlace does not have that problem as the resort has high demand year round. The owner of every week, no matter the season, has something to gain from a major renovation, if that's what it takes. Again, that would not be the case at Streamside, even in the remaining Marriotts there.
IMO

 

[MikeM132]

Kazakie---where did you get your parking info on Hawaii? We specifically asked and were told self-parking is free. Self parking is still available at MOC, too (we asked this directly). They had a temporary issue due to taking down the old garage during construction. At least that's what we were told direct from the resort.
BTW--we stayed before at JW Marriott Ihilani and were told parking was 14/day. We were never charged, nor was anybody else I knew about.

 

[Dean]

This will be interesting. I guess the true questions are whether Marriott is simply pushing them around and whether the BOD will truly stand their ground.

“The Board had no advance warning on these issues and was stunned by the threat.”

I find it hard to believe that this is the first time that Marriott has expressed those concerns as listed here. It seems the requests are reasonable and appropriate to owners and the Club in general though the tactics do leave a little to be desired. I'd think what's gone before would determine the reasonableness of the current Marriott approach.

 

[thinze3]

Kazakie---where did you get your parking info on Hawaii? We specifically asked and were told self-parking is free. Self parking is still available at MOC, too (we asked this directly). They had a temporary issue due to taking down the old garage during construction. At least that's what we were told direct from the resort.
BTW--we stayed before at JW Marriott Ihilani and were told parking was 14/day. We were never charged, nor was anybody else I knew about.

FYI - I stayed in my own Waiohai unit and rented another for my inlaws this past July and was never charged a dime for parking. We had two cars.


.

 

[Dean]

Kazakie---where did you get your parking info on Hawaii? We specifically asked and were told self-parking is free. Self parking is still available at MOC, too (we asked this directly). They had a temporary issue due to taking down the old garage during construction. At least that's what we were told direct from the resort.
BTW--we stayed before at JW Marriott Ihilani and were told parking was 14/day. We were never charged, nor was anybody else I knew about.

My daughter was at the Marriott on Maui and Ko'Olina in Sept and did not have to pay for parking at either.

 

[Kilby5924]

Correct me if I am wrong but doesn’t BP have one of highest MF outside Hawaii in the Marriott system and those high fees are result of the mismanagement of HOA. Now when it comes to keeping to a standard that they knew was out there by looking at what Marriott was doing in it other timeshare they want to cut corners and reduce quality of the rooms. The HOA in the past didn’t complain about Marriott’s management but now when Marriott wants them to comply with that standard they are a being bullied. Why does HOA tell owners the truth that they will have increase fees because they screwed up. There is a reason that a Olevia is cheaper than LG or Sony and it not just the difference in 3inch.
Sheldon

 

[dioxide45]

This will be interesting. I guess the true questions are whether Marriott is simply pushing them around and whether the BOD will truly stand their ground. I find it hard to believe that this is the first time that Marriott has expressed those concerns as listed here. It seems the requests are reasonable and appropriate to owners and the Club in general though the tactics do leave a little to be desired. I'd think what's gone before would determine the reasonableness of the current Marriott approach.

Remember that the letter quoted has come from the side of the HOA. So you are not hearing both sides. The situation could have been exagerated by the board.

 

[davemy]

The letter is mailed to us owners by Marriott vacation club. They have every oppurtunity to give us their side of the story. Also I think my Maintance fee only went up a couple dollars this year. 2 bedroom Platinum is Around $1050.00. Airfare to south florida in the the winter or spring is much more manageable than aruba, st thomas, st kitts, hawaii. figure that cost into your trip when you have a family of 4.

 

[Michigan Czar]

Kazakie,

I think your parking post is misleading. That may be the cost for non-owners but I can tell you I have been to Maui and Ko Olina recently and did not pay parking at either place because I was an owner.

Jim

 

[Dean]

Remember that the letter quoted has come from the side of the HOA. So you are not hearing both sides. The situation could have been exagerated by the board.

That I totally understand and one of the reasons I suggested that this was not likely the first indication of an issue that the HOA had from Marriott. It's also interesting they would send out such a letter drawing a line in the sand as it will make it more difficult to arrive at a "compromise" IMO.

 

[Kazakie]

Parking Info

Kazakie---where did you get your parking info on Hawaii? We specifically asked and were told self-parking is free. Self parking is still available at MOC, too (we asked this directly). They had a temporary issue due to taking down the old garage during construction. At least that's what we were told direct from the resort.
BTW--we stayed before at JW Marriott Ihilani and were told parking was 14/day. We were never charged, nor was anybody else I knew about.

The parking rates were from the Marriott website (if you reserve a vacation villa), it has parking listed on your confirmation. So I have no way of knowing who is and is not being charged for parking, but these are the official rates Marriott has on the reservation confirmations. (In an earlier post I recommended that BT should be consistent with other MCVI resorts that charge for parking - I don't know if there is a general rule, but it would be nice to have consistency).

In Jan 2007 at Marriott Maui, there was no self parking but valet parking was gratis - although I do not know if that was only for owners, MCVI or everyone. (again, i'm just reporting the parking rate on the Marriott confirmation)

In Jan 2007 at Waiohai (we went to Kauai after Maui) we were there when they put up parking gates and were told that they'd start charging for parking (I did not ask if that's for everyone, MCVI or non-owners).

We didn't go to Ko 'Olina.

 

[Kazakie]

Kazakie,

I think your parking post is misleading. That may be the cost for non-owners but I can tell you I have been to Maui and Ko Olina recently and did not pay parking at either place because I was an owner.

Jim

Jim,

If I've been following the tread correctly, BeachPlace Towers owners don't pay for parking either. But at BP other MCVI owners do pay for parking and Marriott would like no MCVI owners to pay for parking.

I would like to see consistency across MCVI resorts as to who does and does not actually have to pay for parking - as many resorts post actual parking rates.

Do you know that Maui and Ko Olina didn't charge you because you were an owner at that resort, or because you're an MCVI owner, or do they not really charge anyone?

-Kaz