The TUGBBS forums are completely free and open to the public and exist as the absolute best place for owners to get help and advice about their timeshares for more than 30 years!
Join Tens of Thousands of other Owners just like you here to get any and all Timeshare questions answered 24 hours a day!
TUG started 31 years ago in October 1993 as a group of regular Timeshare owners just like you!
TUG has now saved timeshare owners more than $23,000,000 dollars just by finding us in time to rescind a new Timeshare purchase! A truly incredible milestone!
Tens of thousands of subscribing owners! A weekly recap of the best Timeshare resort reviews and the most popular topics discussed by owners!
Our official "end my sales presentation early" T-shirts are available again! Also come with the option for a free membership extension with purchase to offset the cost!
The reality is we are guessing of course. I am going to try and find out if a seller I know actually got paid the ROFR price. That would be hard data, or at least a strong indicator. Deeded weeks are generally a better deal for sure.
I would like to buy Marriott DC points but the prices seem too high to me compared to deeded weeks. To rent one week in Hawaii is almost 7000 points in high season. That is more than the MF on a deeded week. But I like the DC point concept because there are other advantages.
No question deeded weeks are the most cost effective. The advantage of DC points is the flexibility for traveling to different places and adjusting your unit size/view or length of stay. I'm a huge fan of the Points system, but we still just bought a deeded EOY week at Maui Ocean Club because we know we want to go there every other year. Deeded weeks are far more cost effective for those places you know you want to return to on a regular basis. I considered adding an EOY at Waiohai on Kauai to pair with the Maui week, but ultimately decided that unless or until we were sure we wanted to go to Waiohai on each EOY trip, we would be better off using Points for that week, even given the higher cost. That way, one trip we could go to Waiohai, another trip we could choose Kauai Lagoons or KoOlina. That's the flexibility benefit of Points, especially since we really don't like the process of II trading.
Going back to the original discussion of how to report the cost of points on the ROFR.net database, this seems simple (but not really). The database should just ask people to report consistently. Either report price per point without the Marriott transfer fee and closing costs - or report with it. However, the problem is people usually do not remember the details of a purchase. I know I can’t remember my total purchase costs. All I remember is the price for the week (without closing costs) or, with points, the price per point. I would have to have clear instructions about how to enter the data and have my contract in front of me.
No question deeded weeks are the most cost effective. The advantage of DC points is the flexibility for traveling to different places and adjusting your unit size/view or length of stay. I'm a huge fan of the Points system, but we still just bought a deeded EOY week at Maui Ocean Club because we know we want to go there every other year. Deeded weeks are far more cost effective for those places you know you want to return to on a regular basis. I considered adding an EOY at Waiohai on Kauai to pair with the Maui week, but ultimately decided that unless or until we were sure we wanted to go to Waiohai on each EOY trip, we would be better off using Points for that week, even given the higher cost. That way, one trip we could go to Waiohai, another trip we could choose Kauai Lagoons or KoOlina. That's the flexibility benefit of Points, especially since we really don't like the process of II trading.
Yep, that's how I look at it too. I've been using DC points to extend my owned week in Desert Springs, but why, when, I can just buy a second week since we go there every single year for 20 years, and, we want to stay 2 weeks. The only downside to that is I only use 1BR, so, lockoff can be traded for my enrolled week, but, no way I am paying II for that privilege in the resale week I am buying. So, I suppose I could rent it until such a day that Marriott might allow post 2010 weeks for a decent price (not holding my breath nor counting on it). The lockoff rents pretty good in high season, and would pay some of my MF each year, around half.
So, I did reach someone who sold some points and had a deal structured with included closing costs and transfer fee. Marriott exercised ROFR, and, the key thing is they got paid the higher amount. Marriott did not deduct the $2/pt transfer fee (and closing costs were normal), and therefore they made more money that the intended dollars per point. I think then that this says it has to matter how you structure it.
So far, from what I am hearing, Marriott is exercising ROFR on many of these bundled contracts. It seems Marriott does not care if it is bundled and they are willing to buy back weeks at higher prices. It still sounds like you just got lucky at $2.50 or $5 per point (depending on how you are reporting). That’s below the market rate.
I agree it is better for the seller if they bundle in all costs if Marriott is buying bundled contracts at the full contract price.
So far, from what I am hearing, Marriott is exercising ROFR on many of these bundled contracts. It seems Marriott does not care if it is bundled and they are willing to buy back weeks at higher prices. It still sounds like you just got lucky at $2.50 or $5 per point (depending on how you are reporting). That’s below the market rate.
I agree it is better for the seller if they bundle in all costs if Marriott is buying bundled contracts at the full contract price.
That is what is so maddening to me about ROFR with all of these timeshare developers - Marriott, Hilton, etc. - it seems so random and arbitrary. As you can probably tell from my anal-retentive number crunching earlier in this thread, I'm a "numbers guy" and I like things that seem quantitative and logical. ROFR seems just the opposite of that. There seems to be no rhyme or reason sometimes to what prices they exercise at and at what prices they waive.
Yes Jay, I agree with you. And I agree with Jim as well, I think I said earlier I was probably just lucky. I guess we would all like to know, for example, that $3.77 is the min price to get past ROFR so we can pay $3.77, but obviously not going to happen. I also am a numbers guy. I wanted to be logical about it and structure a deal that makes logical sense to get past ROFR. However, it's clear from Steven and others that probably, was just blind luck, who was working that day, if they just had a recent good life event, who knows what! I guess the old saying that it's better to be lucky than good may apply here. But you would think, there would be value, i.e. profit, for these companies in having a given formula that makes them the most money. So, now I don't feel so good on my bid for Desert Springs that is pending. Even though the last guy made it past ROFR at the same price at the same realtor, recently, will I? Flip a coin I guess.
That’s what I thought too when I proposed this to a broker last year. Maybe DVC is different than Marriott. In DVC’s case, the broker said she had passed with every offer on Aulani and DVC did not look at how the contract was bundled, just the total cost being paid. I would assume big companies know the games people play. Maybe you just got lucky. The other Steven said 2 of his bundled offers did not pass and he paid a lot more than you did with the offer that did pass. I suspect you may have gotten lucky. How many below market DC contracts have you submitted and have passed? Is this the only one or have you done many like this vs the other way?
I also own at Marriott and I passed ROFR on a low offer for MKO 2 bedroom OV EOY. It was for several thousand dollars less than anything comparable on the market right now. I have never bundled my offers since brokers have told me it does not matter. I have passed ROFR on every offer so far except one that was for $1. LOL
Which brokers do you guys work with? I would like to buy Marriott DC points but the prices seem too high to me compared to deeded weeks. To rent one week in Hawaii is almost 7000 points in high season. That is more than the MF on a deeded week. But I like the DC point concept because there are other advantages.
Okay, so what is the actual going rate for MVC Destination Points including the activation fee and closing costs? On Redweek, I see a range of $3.50 to about $4.30 for the points plus the $2 activation fee and closing costs. What has typically passed ROFR?
I am reading this thread because I want to sell my Marriott Kauai unit that is enrolled in DC. But I wanted to know the limitations for the new owner. If I am understanding this correctly, I must ask at least $3.50 per point which is over $14000 for my 4225 points. THEN MARRIOTT WILL CHARGE THEM $2 per point, over $8000 more to activate the points. That is highway robbery. Who would buy that?
Currently I can book my Kauai unit and use it or in Sept choose points. Would the new owner that has to pay over $22k have this privilege as well?
Thanks in advance.
No, dc point enrollment does not transfer, nor is that pricing applicable to a deeded week. What you quoted applies only to sales of trust points and isn’t applicable in your case.
I am reading this thread because I want to sell my Marriott Kauai unit that is enrolled in DC. But I wanted to know the limitations for the new owner. If I am understanding this correctly, I must ask at least $3.50 per point which is over $14000 for my 4225 points. THEN MARRIOTT WILL CHARGE THEM $2 per point, over $8000 more to activate the points. That is highway robbery. Who would buy that?
Currently I can book my Kauai unit and use it or in Sept choose points. Would the new owner that has to pay over $22k have this privilege as well?
Thanks in advance.
You are free to sell your deeded week. When you sell it, the new owner will receive just the week. The option to convert it to points because it was enrolled in the DC will not transfer with it. The new owner will receive only a traditional week of ownership. As far as how much to try and sell your week for, you could base an asking price around how much it's estimated converted point value is as you describe above. However, that may be more or less than its market value. I'm not that familiar with Hawaii Marriott resale prices to tell you if $14,000 is a realistic price. However, I would recommend trying to gather information on what other similar units are actually selling for and go off that.
Once you have that information, it would be interesting to hear how much comparable resales were sold for relative to their converted points value against the perceived ROFR floor value (as you hypothesized above at $3.50/pp multiplied by your 4225 DC converted points value to arrive at your $14k figure). Not that I think this will provide a true quantitative value, but it would be interesting data IMHO.
I am reading this thread because I want to sell my Marriott Kauai unit that is enrolled in DC. But I wanted to know the limitations for the new owner. If I am understanding this correctly, I must ask at least $3.50 per point which is over $14000 for my 4225 points. THEN MARRIOTT WILL CHARGE THEM $2 per point, over $8000 more to activate the points. That is highway robbery. Who would buy that?
Currently I can book my Kauai unit and use it or in Sept choose points. Would the new owner that has to pay over $22k have this privilege as well?
Thanks in advance.
Based on your point value of 4225, it sounds like you own either a 2BR OV at Kauai Beach Club or a 2BR IV at Waiohai. I'm assuming it is every year, since you didn't say anything about EOY. Based on a quick look at some resale sites, it looks like an every year 2BR OV at Kauai Beach Club would sell for the $9000 range and a 2BR IV at Waiohai would likely be around $5000 or so. As others have said, the buyer would just get your week and would be ineligible to enroll it in the DC.
Thanks. It is a 2 bedroom ocean view. So yes, I had already looked at Redweek which I love and rent my unit there. It looked like around $8750-$9000 then I looked at the comps for points for sale for $14k for MDC. As I started reading the forum I found the buyer would have to pay about $8000 so there I was shocked and started asking questions.
So to clarify. I can sell it on on Redweek just as a weeks unit and the buyer can decided to convert it back to points or not correct?
Or I could sell it for the points on Redweek but I don't think it would sell because of the high price and must convert?
So to clarify. I can sell it on on Redweek just as a weeks unit and the buyer can decided to convert it back to points or not correct?
Or I could sell it for the points on Redweek but I don't think it would sell because of the high price and must convert?
You can sell it on Redweek (or elsewhere) as a week, but the buyer WILL NOT generally (* see note below) be able to convert it back to points.
You cannot sell it for the points on Redweek. Resale weeks are never (well, almost never*) eligible for points.
* The exception is that Marriott will from time-to-time offer a limited time promotion that will allow owners of normally ineligible resale weeks to enroll their weeks in the DC, but only if they buy about 3000 additional DC trust points at a cost of over $30,000.
Thanks. It is a 2 bedroom ocean view. So yes, I had already looked at Redweek which I love and rent my unit there. It looked like around $8750-$9000 then I looked at the comps for points for sale for $14k for MDC. As I started reading the forum I found the buyer would have to pay about $8000 so there I was shocked and started asking questions.
So to clarify. I can sell it on on Redweek just as a weeks unit and the buyer can decided to convert it back to points or not correct?
Or I could sell it for the points on Redweek but I don't think it would sell because of the high price and must convert?
For your purposes, you are selling a traditional week of timeshare ownership. Forget about points as they do not apply to the sale of your week. I would not even discuss how you have used your week for points as it will only confuse any potential buyer into thinking they are getting something they will not be. Whether the buyer of your week could someday re-enroll it and be able to convert it to points as you have been (which is unlikely under Marriott's current standard terms and conditions), will be something for the buyer to explore in the future.
The reason there are so many for sale is a lot of weeks have been sold over the years and some percentage of all owners will have life or preference changes that dictate that they sell their ownership. Traditional weeks are still valuable and usable - even without the points option - for use at the home resort or II trading, so there is still a very viable secondary market for unenrollable weeks.
I find it hard to believe that Marriott wouldn't pick up on the selling price inflated to include the enrollment fees. I have never seen a ROFR form and would be curious to see a completed form. Maybe they really did pass at $2.50 per point. If they didn't realize it I bet the form was not completed correctly according to instructions they provide.
I find it hard to believe that Marriott wouldn't pick up on the selling price inflated to include the enrollment fees. I have never seen a ROFR form and would be curious to see a completed form. Maybe they really did pass at $2.50 per point. If they didn't realize it I bet the form was not completed correctly according to instructions they provide.
Definitely was completed per the instructions. If you've seen real estate contracts, it actually makes sense why it works. Marriott has to purchase at the contract price, that's how it works.
Definitely was completed per the instructions. If you've seen real estate contracts, it actually makes sense why it works. Marriott has to purchase at the contract price, that's how it works.
Perhaps lucky sure, but Marriott would have paid twice what I paid if they did exercise as they have to, that's why it works at times. Just don't forget that part! Definitely they have no fixed price at which they exercise. We've seen prices all over the place. So, I suspect there was luck involved, but more "skill" than luck. One armed typing is no fun!
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
