Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[Luckybee]

Removed my own post

 

[SueDonJ]

... rather they are both refusing to allow a mailing by anyone other than them ...

As John, Eric and Dean (and probably others who I can't recall if you go back to the beginning of the thread) have all mentioned, there should be a provision that allows for any owner to have the BOD and/or MVCI send out a mailing to all of the owners if that mailing is limited to owner concerns and/or abides by certain restrictions. Whether or not the individual owner or MVCI would be responsible for the cost of the mailing has been debated, but not whether or not the provision exists. I don't remember, actually, if it was ever determined that such a provision exists.

Are you saying now that someone from the group followed explicitly the requirements of any such provision, crafted an acceptable letter and asked the BOD/MVCI to send it out to all owners? And was subsequently denied by the BOD/MVCI? That's certainly cause for concern, if it did happen exactly that way, but I don't remember any such thing being discussed here.

I know, I know, everything of importance isn't discussed here. But I'm asking specifically about this one thing because you have mentioned it here.

 

[ecwinch]

Here is what I see when I put on my MarkSue Special "MVCI is evil" goggles:

As you may know on May 15 2009, the Annual General Membership meeting of the cooperative Vereniging Marriott Vacation Club international of Aruba (the association) was held and three board members were elected. The draft annual meeting minutes have been posted on the resort page of my vacation club.com as well as our dedicated website arubaoceanclub.com. Since then , we have been working diligently on several important issues.

The board has the duty to inform you of the following development that requires your urgent attention .

An individual member has recently instructed an attorney in Aruba to notify the association of the members intention to sue the association before the court in Aruba if the board does not provide all of the names and personal correspondence addresses of the associations 8570 members to this individual member or his attorney . This member is seeking your information so he can attempt to unseat your duly elected Board of Directors. We of course like our unpaid positions, and want to prevent this from happening.

The board has the duty to consider all possible scenarios that MarkSue might use this information and is very reluctant to provide your personal information such as name and personal addresses ( as currently on file). In particular we are concerned that the individual requesting this information might want it to possible misuse such information, and the real possibility of the personal information of our 8570 members getting into the hands of being sold by MarkSue to telemarketers or the personal information being improperly handled or distributed by MarkSue.

While privacy laws in the United States may protect your personal information from being made public, the board has to take into account that the association may be compelled by an Aruban court to release and transfer members personal data. For this reason, we are giving you the opportunity(by means of checking a box and signing the attached declaration), to indicate whether or not you authorize or do not authorize having your personal data as described above shared with individual members who may request your personal information. If you do not want your information shared with individual members, please check the appropriate box on the attached declaration and we will try, as much as possible to honour your request.

Sincerely,

 

[Luckybee]

Here is what I see when I put on my MarkSue Special "MVCI is evil" googles:

As you may know on May 15 2009, the Annual General Membership meeting of the cooperative Vereniging Marriott Vacation Club international of Aruba (the association) was held and three board members were elected. The draft annual meeting minutes have been posted on the resort page of my vacation club.com as well as our dedicated website arubaoceanclub.com. Since then , we have been working diligently on several important issues.

The board has the duty to inform you of the following development that requires your urgent attention .

An individual member has recently instructed an attorney in Aruba to notify the association of the members intention to sue the association before the court in Aruba if the board does not provide all of the names and personal correspondence addresses of the associations 8570 members to this individual member or his attorney . This member is seeking your information so he can attempt to unseat your duly elected Board of Directors. We of course like our unpaid positions, and want to prevent this from happening.

The board has the duty to consider all possible scenarios that MarkSue might use this information and is very reluctant to provide your personal information such as name and personal addresses ( as currently on file). In particular we are concerned that the individual requesting this information might want it to possible misuse such information, and the real possibility of the personal information of our 8570 members getting into the hands of being sold by MarkSue to telemarketers or the personal information being improperly handled or distributed by MarkSue.

While privacy laws in the United States may protect your personal information from being made public, the board has to take into account that the association may be compelled by an Aruban court to release and transfer members personal data. For this reason, we are giving you the opportunity(by means of checking a box and signing the attached declaration), to indicate whether or not you authorize or do not authorize having your personal data as described above shared with individual members who may request your personal information. If you do not want your information shared with individual members, please check the appropriate box on the attached declaration and we will try, as much as possible to honour your request.

Sincerely,

This is pure and utter BS and no one has suggested that this is what should have been sent....But once again....keep spinning on behalf of Marriott....your true motivation is definitely showing.

 

[ecwinch]

You cannot silence the critics when they gag themselves.

 

[ecwinch]

This is pure and utter BS and no one has suggested that this is what should have been sent....But once again....keep spinning on behalf of Marriott....your true motivation is definitely showing.

Then show me how you think it should have been written. You say they are misrepresenting Mark's reason. I do not see that they ever state Mark's reason.

I am simply pointing out the fallacy of your statement.

 

[SueDonJ]

If the rules are similar to what we came up against then ONLY the management has the right to send out letters for the Association at large. They do not have to give you the rules they just need to be given a proper request and take it through whatever process the law or docs or both require. The process should be identified in your documents or by timeshare laws/regulations. If not then a simple request should generate the needed information (if that has been done and Marriott failed to follow through with the requirements that would be the first actual misstep I've seen in all this. But I don't see anywhere in these 1000+ messages that a proper request for a mailing was ever made). And they can demand that the people looking for that access pay for it - not on the owners dime. Nothing illegal or underhanded about any of that. Has the proper request been made and if so by who?

Yeah, that's what I meant.

 

[Luckybee]

Then show me how you think it should have been written. You say they are misrepresenting Mark's reason. I do not see that they ever state Mark's reason.

I am simply pointing out the fallacy of your statement.

As I said before....no one could truly believe what you wrote...so again I wont debate it with you...but I think it is great that your true motivation is now showing in a very obvious way

 

[lovearuba]

your rights

This whole line of back and forth over the release of the owners list to a third party (owners or not) makes me VERY happy that the State of Florida - along with many others - specifically PROHIBIT such a release. While we fought a similar battle over resort control some years back we, as the "right" side of the fence of course, felt it was unfair and that we were being denied fair access to tell our side of the tale.

But after the smoke cleared and we carefully followed the rules and the management had to send out our newsletter (at cost) we ended up winning the control battle and appreciate the protection that preventing unfettered access to that list offered all of us as owners - developer or not.

There are plenty of companies, people and groups that would LOVE to have access to the owners list at most resorts. It is an extremely valuable commodity and we learned that protecting it to the greatest extent possible is the best way to go. Doing things by the rules means you CAN reach owners but under a process that does all it can to avoid abuse of that valuable list. I applaud Marriott/Management for protecting the owners and making sure proper procedure is followed before anyone gets direct contact using that private mailing list. Anyone demanding unfettered access for whatever reason (as an example an owner at our resort wanted to send a letter to every owner touting their "collection" service - a potential goldmine for them that would be tough to explain clearly to owners in a short letter. When presented with the up front cost and the need to have it be a legitimate owner contact they backed off) just hasn't thought through the potential for abuse. Spam, junk mail and more are just the tip of the iceberg. There is no way I'd want my information divulged by my resort. There is enough in the public record for anyone that wants to pay to search it out in time or money - don't make it easy for them by handing them the keys to the kingdom of the owners listing.

Marriott isn't doing anything unfair in demanding the proper procedures be used for any type of mailing.

This prohibition that you are supporting diminishes the rights you have based on the bylaws. If you have no right to request the information to get the owners to support a special vote to remove members from the board so that the members on the board are not Marriott puppets, then you have no rights. As an owner, I thought I had rights and I am willing to fight for them. We are following the bylaws but it appears that Marriott is afraid that the remaining owners may also support this and guess what. Marriott wants to keep control and this is just another delay. Delays happen with any worthwhile change. If we just go away and give up Marriott wins. The fight is worthwhle to us. Some folks like status quo, others work for change. I choose to fight for change as long as I am confident the change is needed.

 

[ecwinch]

This prohibition that you are supporting diminishes the rights you have based on the bylaws. If you have no right to request the information to get the owners to support a special vote to remove members from the board so that the members on the board are not Marriott puppets, then you have no rights. As an owner, I thought I had rights and I am willing to fight for them. We are following the bylaws but it appears that Marriott is afraid that the remaining owners may also support this and guess what. Marriott wants to keep control and this is just another delay. Delays happen with any worthwhile change. If we just go away and give up Marriott wins. The fight is worthwhle to us. Some folks like status quo, others work for change. I choose to fight for change as long as I am confident the change is needed.

You might want to re-read his post closely, and note the part where he says that followed procedure and the info had to go out in the newsletter.

Take off the MarkSue goggles first though. They are obscuring your vision.

 

[ecwinch]

As I said before....no one could truly believe what you wrote...so again I wont debate it with you...but I think it is great that your true motivation is now showing in a very obvious way

Lucky,

You seem very unable to support your position with much more than rhetoric. So your decision is probably appropriate. I think this is the third time I have asked for some detail, only to have you quit. I would think with the abundance of facts supporting your position, these would be easy requests.

In regard for my support for MVCI, I do not think I have hid the fact that I think they are a good company that is being defamed here. You do not share that opinion, and I respect that.

Thanks

 

[ecwinch]

John,

Do Sue, Lucky, Modo, Love, Dean, and I get some special recognition when we push this thing over 2000 posts?

I mean like a letter or something? And not a letter recommending that we be committed to the home for the hopelessly bored.

Thanks

 

[lovearuba]

no googles

You might want to re-read his post closely, and note the part where he says that followed procedure and the info had to go out in the newsletter.

Take off the MarkSue googles first though. They are obscuring your vision.

Do you mean goggles? I have 20/20 by the way. I've never met Marksue, the only thing we have in common is our timeshare in aruba.

 

[lovearuba]

prize

John,

Do Sue, Lucky, Modo, Love, Dean, and I get some special recognition when we push this thing over 2000 posts?

I mean like a letter or something? And not a letter recommending that we be committed to the home for the hopelessly bored.

Thanks

I think you get the prize for the poster with so much time on their hands.

 

[Dean]

John,

Do Sue, Lucky, Modo, Love, Dean, and I get some special recognition when we push this thing over 2000 posts?

I mean like a letter or something? And not a letter recommending that we be committed to the home for the hopelessly bored.

Thanks

No, just "I told you so" rights in a couple of years. I do hope some good comes of this but I'm having trouble thinking of anything good that can come in the situation noted, at least without an equal amount of bad to balance it out. Even in the best case scenario I noted (Marriott pays it all except legal fees but does not accept blame), there are no winners and the members at best come out about even with a lot of pent up ill will between them, the BOD and MVCI.

 

[SueDonJ]

John,

Do Sue, Lucky, Modo, Love, Dean, and I get some special recognition when we push this thing over 2000 posts?

I mean like a letter or something? And not a letter recommending that we be committed to the home for the hopelessly bored.

Thanks

It's enough for me, really, that I'm holding my own in the Upping My Post Count game. Besides, I'd hate to have to write an acceptance speech for my award.

 

[ecwinch]

I think you get the prize for the poster with so much time on their hands.

Love,

I do have too much time on my hands. I am in Tacoma, WA and am taking care of my mother that has a heart condition, and is scheduled for open heart surgery on Monday. So I am kinda house-bound right now. And until the Mariners come on it 20 minutes or so, I do not have a lot to do.

But thanks for the personal observation. I take that as sign of endearment. And thanks for pointing out my typo.

BTW - I have not heard back from Allan yet.

ps. And I think you share a common opinion on MVCI.

Thanks

 

[Dean]

Love,

I do have too much time on my hands. I am in Tacoma, WA and am taking care of my mother that has a heart condition, and is scheduled for open heart surgery on Monday. So I am kinda house-bound right now. And until the Mariners come on it 20 minutes or so, I do not have a lot to do.

But thanks for the personal observation. I take that as sign of endearment. And thanks for pointing out my typo.

BTW - I have not heard back from Allan yet.

Thanks

Funny how no one comments on post counts or time spent for those they agree with but rather use it to attack a person rather than discussing the issues.

 

[ecwinch]

It's enough for me, really, that I'm holding my own in the Upping My Post Count game. Besides, I'd hate to have to write an acceptance speech for my award.

I can understand how writing those words "I would like to thank MarkSue", might be a challenge.

I think I have increased the lead by almost 80 since the last check... you better get going on the pts thread.

 

[london]

What more can be said

With almost 2000 posts, and over 80,000 views, what more can be said.

Perhaps this thread has run its course, for many Tuggers.

Of course the owner's and BOD have lots to talk about in a never ending conversation.

 

[Luckybee]

Lucky,

You seem very unable to support your position with much more than rhetoric. So your decision is probably appropriate. I think this is the third time I have asked for some detail, only to have you quit. I would think with the abundance of facts supporting your position, these would be easy requests.

In regard for my support for MVCI, I do not think I have hid the fact that I think they are a good company that is being defamed here. You do not share that opinion, and I respect that.

Thanks

I dont have to support my position to you ...that is the whole point. I choose not to because it is a complete and utter waste of time. You proved that by your ability to ignore the obvious when you couldnt see how the letter is a complete and total joke. So why would I try to "support " anything where you are concerned. I learned many years ago that when one is atempting to show someone the fallacy of their thinking one has to be at minimum dealing with someone who is capable of comprehending it. Seemingly as I said before either you are not(which I doubt) or, you simply choose to believe that if Marriott says it is sunny then it must be even as you hear the rain and thunder.
I simply wont waste valuable breath under those circumstances. I wonder though what you'll be saying in say a year or two when this is all over. Mind if I crow a bit then?

 

[modoaruba]

Love,

I do have too much time on my hands. I am in Tacoma, WA and am taking care of my mother that has a heart condition, and is scheduled for open heart surgery on Monday. So I am kinda house-bound right now. And until the Mariners come on it 20 minutes or so, I do not have a lot to do.

But thanks for the personal observation. I take that as sign of endearment. And thanks for pointing out my typo.

BTW - I have not heard back from Allan yet.

ps. And I think you share a common opinion on MVCI.

Thanks

Allow me here to wish your mother good luck and speedy recovery.
I went through the same last year with my dad.
There are obviously more important issues out there than this blog.
As a side line,chalk up another post from moi.
Keep the faith.

 

[lovearuba]

good thoughts

Love,

I do have too much time on my hands. I am in Tacoma, WA and am taking care of my mother that has a heart condition, and is scheduled for open heart surgery on Monday. So I am kinda house-bound right now. And until the Mariners come on it 20 minutes or so, I do not have a lot to do.

But thanks for the personal observation. I take that as sign of endearment. And thanks for pointing out my typo.

BTW - I have not heard back from Allan yet.

ps. And I think you share a common opinion on MVCI.

Thanks

I am sorry to hear about your mom. I lost mine and actually used some of the money she left me to purchase the timeshare. I told my husband that I wanted to use the money only for things that would bring us happiness. I had tremendous difficulty letting her go so I truly know how precious moms can be and I sincerely hope things work out well for yours. I am also confident that if you have reached out to Allan, he will connect. Hes a wonderful person and will listen as long as the conversation is respectful.

 

[marksue]

Eric I may wear goggles as you say, but at least I am not wearing Marriott blinders, which if I put on is "Marriott is my idol " .

I have stated my opinions and I do not care if you agree or not. It really doesnt matter. My concern is for my fellow owners and ensuring we have the opportunity to present our case to the rest of the owners, drive transparency and hold Marriott accountable.

I do not need to convince you or anyone else on what is going on and why I believe thier are injustices at the OC. Those of us that own know it first hand. Do we have 100% support, no we dont, but you never have 100% in anything. There are 1000+ owners that are signed up in support this issue

I learned a long time ago not to answer any of your questions. All you ever do is attack my responses anyway so what is the point. You do not care what I or any other member of the group has to say. No matter what anyone says all you do is attack attack attack and bleed your Marriott blood.

You expect Allan to get back to you right away. It was suggested a while back for you to contact Allan, but you waited, yet you make a comment Allan didnt get back to me yet, after less than 1 day.

 

[ecwinch]

Eric I may wear goggles as you say, but at least I am not wearing Marriott blinders, which if I put on is "Marriott is my idol " .

I have stated my opinions and I do not care if you agree or not. It really doesnt matter. My concern is for my fellow owners and ensuring we have the opportunity to present our case to the rest of the owners, drive transparency and hold Marriott accountable.

I do not need to convince you or anyone else on what is going on and why I believe thier are injustices at the OC. Those of us that own know it first hand. Do we have 100% support, no we dont, but you never have 100% in anything. There are 1000+ owners that are signed up in support this issue

I learned a long time ago not to answer any of your questions. All you ever do is attack my responses anyway so what is the point. You do not care what I or any other member of the group has to say. No matter what anyone says all you do is attack attack attack and bleed your Marriott blood.

You expect Allan to get back to you right away. It was suggested a while back for you to contact Allan, but you waited, yet you make a comment Allan didnt get back to me yet, after less than 1 day.

Mark,

I have noticed a distinct lack of any factual rebuttal to the points I raise, so I understand how it is just easier to marginalize opinions that we do not like to hear by accusing the poster of "idol worship" or that they are non-owners. When the facts do not support a thesis it is generally just better to ignore them. It is a common technique used in such crusades.

And, you obviously will have to convince one non-owner about the "why I believe thier are injustices at the OC" or this crusade will not proceed. Unless the judge is a AOC owner.

My nudge of Love, was just a reminder that I had not heard from Allan. He contacted me after that post, and I hope to speak with him soon. It was just a reminder, I made no statements that should be inferred as something else.

And we have heard your claims of wide-spread support before, so grant me leave to take them with a grain of salt.

Thanks