Marriott Aruba Ocean Club Owners Being Ripped Off By Marriott - READ IF AN OWNER

[ecwinch]

I haven't chimed in for a while because I don't really see how this can come to a conclusion that will mollify the dissatisfied owners group but one thought does keep coming to my mind as I read through this thread. What control do you believe that MVCI has over Frank Knox or indeed any other members of the board? If you allow that they are just owners who are willing to sit on the board like anyone else then how can Marksue and lovearuba keep accusing them of being puppets of MVCI? It just doesn't make sense to me- as it is the much revered Allan Cohen was allowed to run for the board (and even become president) by the evil folks at MVCI. Why did they allow him in in the first place? I guess their usual puppet mind control techniques failed on him and so he became a dissident. If you think about the facts it is really ridiculous to assume that Marriott knows what Frank Knox, or anyone else for that matter, will do in any given situation so why would they go out on a limb to make sure he is voted on to the board?

Anyway, I still think the dissident group should look to the future and focus on insuring that the resort is in good repair and that MF's are set at a level so that they will not get hit in the future by SA's that bust the bank. I know that there are lots of "secret reports" that only Allan and Marksue are allowed to see but I don't think even those will triumph in this situation. You will just end up paying for lots of expensive lawyers and may end up in a worse place than you are now. Be careful what you wish/litigate for. You have been getting good advice from ecwinch and suedonj- don't write them off as Marriott supporters- they just see both sides.

Do you own at the Ocean Club?

 

[ecwinch]

OH DANG! You mean you all are already getting compensation?!?! All they promised me was a TOP 25 spot on The Good Owner list!

It is time to look up Scott Boras. Hmmmph.

I got to this thread before you did. Eric beat me by a few posts. He probably has a real sweet deal, and besides he works for Marriott. He is probably getting monetary compensation, and I just get non-cash stuff. They also told me I could keep the MVCI pens in any unit I reserved for the next 10 years.

Heck he may even be the MVCI monitor alluded to earlier.

 

[lovearuba]

The pens

I got to this thread before you did. Eric beat me by a few posts. He probably has a real sweet deal, and besides he works for Marriott. He is probably getting monetary compensation, and I just get non-cash stuff. They also told me I could keep the MVCI pens in any unit I reserved for the next 10 years.

Heck he may even be the MVCI monitor alluded to earlier.

You mean we are not supposed to take those pens?:ignore:

 

[ecwinch]

You mean we are not supposed to take those pens?:ignore:

See now we know why AOC m/f have gotten so high - LoveAruba is stealing all the darn pens. I bet he takes the batteries out of the remotes, and those little shampoo's and soaps. Heck maybe even the extra paper towels. And everyone knows how much more expensive things are in Aruba.

The focus of this whole crusade is misplaced. It's the owners....
:hysterical:

 

[Eric]

The only thing I get for posting is the satisfaction that other Marriott owners sees people are actually calling Mark out on his non-factual rants.

I got to this thread before you did. Eric beat me by a few posts. He probably has a real sweet deal, and besides he works for Marriott. He is probably getting monetary compensation, and I just get non-cash stuff. They also told me I could keep the MVCI pens in any unit I reserved for the next 10 years.

Heck he may even be the MVCI monitor alluded to earlier.

 

[Dean]

The focus of this whole crusade is misplaced. It's the owners....

I know you're joshing but there's a lot of truth in that statement at any timeshare. We are often our own worst enemy. This seems to be more true for points systems and floating week/floating unit timeshares than fixed week/fixed unit options.

 

[SueDonJ]

The only thing I get for posting is the satisfaction that other Marriott owners sees people are actually calling Mark out on his non-factual rants.

Do you want Scott Boras' number?

 

[ecwinch]

Seeing how Scott is representing the #1 and #2 picks in this years draft, it might be a while before you get a call-back.

 

[lovearuba]

renovations

Hi
Marriott has picttures posted in the lobby of the ocean club showing the new renovations. If interested send me a pm and I'll send them along. I am pleased with the depictions in the pictures, the colors are beautiful and the place will look completely different when they are done.

 

[SueDonJ]

Hi
Marriott has picttures posted in the lobby of the ocean club showing the new renovations. If interested send me a pm and I'll send them along. I am pleased with the depictions in the pictures, the colors are beautiful and the place will look completely different when they are done.

I'm so glad to "hear" a positive note in your words! After all the unhappiness that's been generated over these many months, it's great that you Aruba Ocean Club owners will have a chance to love your beautiful home resort again.

I don't know if you're aware that posting pictures here is really simple to do and requires only that you use a hosting site - Photobucket.com is a free host. We'd all love to see your pictures and I'd be happy to help you step-by-step.

 

[lovearuba]

I'm pretty computer literate

I'm so glad to "hear" a positive note in your words! After all the unhappiness that's been generated over these many months, it's great that you Aruba Ocean Club owners will have a chance to love your beautiful home resort again.

I don't know if you're aware that posting pictures here is really simple to do and requires only that you use a hosting site - Photobucket.com is a free host. We'd all love to see your pictures and I'd be happy to help you step-by-step.

I'm glad to see you are trying to be helpful Sue although you do have a tendency to have a tone of sarcasm in your message. I hope you understand why I choose not to take you up on your offer.

 

[SueDonJ]

I'm glad to see you are trying to be helpful Sue although you do have a tendency to have a tone of sarcasm in your message. I hope you understand why I choose not to take you up on your offer.

You're right - at times I don't make enough of an effort to keep that tone from creeping in. This time I'm genuine, though I can understand your hesitation.

I hope someone else makes the same offer, because I really would like to see how it's expected that your resort will look when it's newly done. And in any event, I am glad to "hear" your enthusiasm.

 

[Luckybee]

I'm so glad to "hear" a positive note in your words! After all the unhappiness that's been generated over these many months, it's great that you Aruba Ocean Club owners will have a chance to love your beautiful home resort again.

Not all of us will have a chance to love our home resort again Sue. Many have had to sell because of what has transpired . Many( ourselves included), are seriously considering selling. Dh and I have discussed this issue over and over again and are going back and forth over this endlessly. We've owned since it first opened and as i said before we used to be Marriott cheerleaders too. Now for us it is coming down to the following : we doubt we could ever feel comfortable owning at a timeshare again, particularily Marriott. This whole thing has just left too much of a sour taste in our mouths.

Dh and I travel quite extensively, staying almost universally at 5 and 6 * properties and rarely do we have any major problems at any properties. About 2 years ago we had a problem at the Ritz in Grand Cayman. I wont digress and go into all the details but the point is we wouldnt go back(to the Ritz....we'd go back to gc in a second but the beauty of it is we're under no obligation to do so. We still love Aruba, and prior to our purchase stayed at the Hyatt for years. It would be very easy to go back to that propery. So for 1 or 2 trips a year right now we can choose where we feel like going based on our desire at that time while for the 3rd we have to stay at our Marriott timeshare, which right now for us just doesnt feel right( and we're not into playing the trading game unless we have to). I dunno , it just doesnt sit right with me to continue to support a company who has done what imho they've done. I am not going to get into a debate about they have or havent done here. This is simply about the way we feel, and our perceptions. We have the next trip booked to Aruba and it will be the first for us since this whole thing began(we had to cancel because of medical reasons for the last 2 years). I guess time will tell as to whether we'll have the comfort level back. Somehow right now I doubt it. I cant help but feel resentment towards Mariott. Ive made certain that none of our business travel or our colleagues business travel involves a stay at a Marriott property. I've cleaned out both of our Marriott points. I have discouraged colleagues from purchasing a timeshare which they were going to buy. I would feel like a hypocrite if I continued owning there. I realize this wont sit well with some of you but this is the way we feel and sadly the trust and feeling of comfort is simply gone. I have no idea what we'll do yet, I am pretty sure we wont take a total beating pricewise if we do since we did buy when the prices were still very good and I havent seen a listing for anything as low as what we paid. At this point though it doesnt much matter. We've spend more on a single holiday that we did for our two weeks of purchase and I am not going to keep going if we wont enjoy it !

 

[lovearuba]

I will post pics later

Not all of us will have a chance to love our home resort again Sue. Many have had to sell because of what has transpired . Many( ourselves included), are seriously considering selling. Dh and I have discussed this issue over and over again and are going back and forth over this endlessly. We've owned since it first opened and as i said before we used to be Marriott cheerleaders too. Now for us it is coming down to the following : we doubt we could ever feel comfortable owning at a timeshare again, particularily Marriott. This whole thing has just left too much of a sour taste in our mouths.

Dh and I travel quite extensively, staying almost universally at 5 and 6 * properties and rarely do we have any major problems at any properties. About 2 years ago we had a problem at the Ritz in Grand Cayman. I wont digress and go into all the details but the point is we wouldnt go back(to the Ritz....we'd go back to gc in a second but the beauty of it is we're under no obligation to do so. We still love Aruba, and prior to our purchase stayed at the Hyatt for years. It would be very easy to go back to that propery. So for 1 or 2 trips a year right now we can choose where we feel like going based on our desire at that time while for the 3rd we have to stay at our Marriott timeshare, which right now for us just doesnt feel right( and we're not into playing the trading game unless we have to). I dunno , it just doesnt sit right with me to continue to support a company who has done what imho they've done. I am not going to get into a debate about they have or havent done here. This is simply about the way we feel, and our perceptions. We have the next trip booked to Aruba and it will be the first for us since this whole thing began(we had to cancel because of medical reasons for the last 2 years). I guess time will tell as to whether we'll have the comfort level back. Somehow right now I doubt it. I cant help but feel resentment towards Mariott. Ive made certain that none of our business travel or our colleagues business travel involves a stay at a Marriott property. I've cleaned out both of our Marriott points. I have discouraged colleagues from purchasing a timeshare which they were going to buy. I would feel like a hypocrite if I continued owning there. I realize this wont sit well with some of you but this is the way we feel and sadly the trust and feeling of comfort is simply gone. I have no idea what we'll do yet, I am pretty sure we wont take a total beating pricewise if we do since we did buy when the prices were still very good and I havent seen a listing for anything as low as what we paid. At this point though it doesnt much matter. We've spend more on a single holiday that we did for our two weeks of purchase and I am not going to keep going if we wont enjoy it !

We must be twins. We were just in Aruba last week, it has not changed although it was pretty dead, no waits anyway and unfortunately the restaurants seem to have all raised their prices. The resort is still beautiful and the people are still wonderful. I hope you still enjoy your time there. I will post the pics to the shutterfly and post the link later. Have a great day.

 

[lovearuba]

Ocean Club Remodel

Here are the pics

http://share.shutterfly.com/share/r...f8ad5209fef06cbbd47cbb382743&sid=8YcNG7VmybuA

Let me know if you have any problems viewing.http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8YcNG7VmybuA

 

[marksue]

lucky,

I have heard from other owners that were or are forced to sell thier units. Some have taken a beating since they only bought a few years ago. Even though I bought 10 years ago, based on what I am seeing I would also not be able to sell my units for what I paid for them.

I also have avoided Marriott as much as I could in my business travels. I have actually started staying at Hyatts and I find them to be nicer than Marriotts. Even the Hyatt Place is nicer than courtyards.

The way Marriott has handled this matter has really turned me off to the company. It is a shame since I have had over 1 million points in my lifetime and still have over 1/2 million to use.

Our legal council is moving forward and as soon as his papers are filed I will update you with what is taking place. He feels quite confident on the game plan.

 

[timeos2]

Wait until the owners get the bill for this

Our legal council is moving forward and as soon as his papers are filed I will update you with what is taking place. He feels quite confident on the game plan.

Now that quite plainly says that apparently soon the Association will have legal bills to pay to defend themselves. The fact that it has been painted as an action "only against Marriott" doesn't hold water as Marriott will certainly channel all activity regarding any lawsuit through the Association (if they didn't operate the resort there would be no lawsuit). So once the meter starts running for an Association legal team to fight this let's see how support for the cause holds up. It will be largely on the owners backs unless the Board turns around and successfully sues Marriott to cover those costs too (unlikely due to the cost and the low chance of a successful outcome). It doesn't take long for those bills to get into the 5 and 6 and possibly 7 figure range. Aren't there better places the Association needs to spend that type of cash? Is that in the budget?

From the start this sounded like it wold end up costing owners money. Now it seems to be coming true. Stay tuned for the fun.

 

[tlwmkw]

Luckybee,

I think you are making a wise decision by selling. I can understand that you feel Marriott has let you down and don't want to continue to own there. The best choice for owners now is to stick with the resort and wait until the renovation is done and enjoy it, or to sell, as you are doing. Anyone who continues to own really needs to be sure that the building is properly repaired/maintained and won't have ongoing problems. The lawsuits that are brewing will probably do nothing to ensure that and will probably only benefit the lawyers (has anyone noticed the recent RCI settlement?) at the owners expense.

I don't know why you think anyone would have a problem with your decision- I can see both sides in this case and while I think the situation has been poorly managed by Marksue et al I also see that Marriott has been at fault in some ways also- they really should have been more open about what was going on at the resort. It's a bad situation all around and I don't think much good will come out of this situation. I continue to wish you all the best in this very tough situation.

tlwmkw

 

[marksue]

email from an owner at the OCean club

"I am currently on site and at the Owner's Reception last evening the latest resort information was poorly presented. The Management Team tried their best to dodge all the tough questions and asked quite a few owner's to take it off-line. In what seems to be the new norm, they seem to not be telling the whole truth. At the Towel Hut this morning many guests were very curious as to the real state of the union and said very clearly that they would never buy at the Ocean Club with these circumstances. I'll let you know if anything of interest comes up in the next week. One item of note is that many folks from the overbooked Surf Club are finding their way onto the Ocean Club beach and pool area. The new idea of chaining all the beach chairs up to the Palapas is going to cause a serious mold problem on all the chairs if they are not cleaned regularly, which it appears is not happening. But this is the least of our problems..."

 

[SueDonJ]

Luckybee,

I think you are making a wise decision by selling. I can understand that you feel Marriott has let you down and don't want to continue to own there. The best choice for owners now is to stick with the resort and wait until the renovation is done and enjoy it, or to sell, as you are doing. Anyone who continues to own really needs to be sure that the building is properly repaired/maintained and won't have ongoing problems. The lawsuits that are brewing will probably do nothing to ensure that and will probably only benefit the lawyers (has anyone noticed the recent RCI settlement?) at the owners expense.

I don't know why you think anyone would have a problem with your decision- I can see both sides in this case and while I think the situation has been poorly managed by Marksue et al I also see that Marriott has been at fault in some ways also- they really should have been more open about what was going on at the resort. It's a bad situation all around and I don't think much good will come out of this situation. I continue to wish you all the best in this very tough situation.

tlwmkw

I agree completely with this. None of us critics can judge as right or wrong any Ocean Club owner's decision whether to sell their week(s) or ride out the storm in anticipation of a renewed sparkling top-rated resort which has hopefully put its financial difficulties behind. After all, neither decision can be said to be either right or wrong by the owners either; what works personally for one will not for another.

But that's not what the critics in this thread have done and I think it's unfair that the owners put that perception out there. You can review the entire thread and see throughout that the questions asked of critics have all been along the lines of,

- "If you feel so strongly that you have been wronged by Marriott/MVCI/your BOD, why aren't you taking the necessary legal steps to correct those wrongs,"
- "What in your ownership and other documents offers you proof (that would stand up in a court setting) that you have been wronged," and,
- "When you consider the possible end results, will the costs (meaning dollar AND management company/owner relationship) involved in litigation be worth paying on top of the fees to improve/maintain the resort to what is expected of an MVCI property?"

That's what this thread has been about for me, anyway. And yes, along the way there's been courtesy, snarkiness, sarcasm, tangents and humor, from everyone. It's been a long discussion; those things can be expected. Whatever "tone" the posts may have had at any time, I certainly learned a few things. I hope we all did.

[Edit: I did it again, tacked on to one of tlwmkw's posts without acknowledging that s/he's been a voice of reason, been able to formulate words so clearly, and been quite knowledgeable throughout the discussion. Nice work.]

 

[SueDonJ]

"I am currently on site and at the Owner's Reception last evening the latest resort information was poorly presented. The Management Team tried their best to dodge all the tough questions and asked quite a few owner's to take it off-line. In what seems to be the new norm, they seem to not be telling the whole truth. At the Towel Hut this morning many guests were very curious as to the real state of the union and said very clearly that they would never buy at the Ocean Club with these circumstances. I'll let you know if anything of interest comes up in the next week. One item of note is that many folks from the overbooked Surf Club are finding their way onto the Ocean Club beach and pool area. The new idea of chaining all the beach chairs up to the Palapas is going to cause a serious mold problem on all the chairs if they are not cleaned regularly, which it appears is not happening. But this is the least of our problems..."

Mark, serious question here. If you believe that after all these months and communications to owners that the "tough questions" have still not been answered, what makes you think that the Ocean Club management team and employees will suddenly one day respond with something that satisfies your demands for more information? Or, what purpose does it serve for owners to continue to ask the team and the employees when it clearly is causing friction between them? You've clearly gotten the message by now, I hope, that Marriott/MVCI/your BOD is playing hardball, so why waste time in an effort to which they've proven they will not respond, and which must negatively impact an owner's vacation even more than it already has been?

I still don't understand how taking useless steps furthers your agenda.

 

[SueDonJ]

Here are the pics

http://share.shutterfly.com/share/r...f8ad5209fef06cbbd47cbb382743&sid=8YcNG7VmybuA

Let me know if you have any problems viewing.http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8YcNG7VmybuA

Thanks. I love the corridor and master bedroom schemes.

 

[Luckybee]

Luckybee,

I think you are making a wise decision by selling. I can understand that you feel Marriott has let you down and don't want to continue to own there. The best choice for owners now is to stick with the resort and wait until the renovation is done and enjoy it, or to sell, as you are doing. Anyone who continues to own really needs to be sure that the building is properly repaired/maintained and won't have ongoing problems.

Although we havent as I said totally made the decision(rephrase...lol...I have dh hasnt , your paragraph hit it dead on for me. Because of the trust issues I personally dont feel comfortable that the way the property has been managed so far by Marriott and the current board we could ever be sure that there wont be ongoing problems.
I guess without Allan or someone similiar to him on the board I would feel that way likely because of our initial experiences when the Oc was first around.
I dont know if I mentioned any of this before(and Im too lazy to read the entire thread again to find out , but many moons ago there was a massive power failure on the island while we were in Aruba. It wasnt by any means exclusive to Marriott but what was exclusive to Marriott was the lock down of info. Everyone of course wanted to know when power would be restored, and when the island went on revolving outages when we would have power at our resort. We were getting all of our info from the Hyatt concierge who we knew from previous trips. This was the same info that all the resorts were provided by the goverment and that all other resorts were providing to their customers, and most resorts were giving refunds or depositing weeks for them into II or RCI if people wanted to leave(ie full power not be expected for days). The guests at both the oc and hotel were being told either "we dont know", or "it should be soon" and nothing of the updates. We were candidly told by one employeee who was embarrassed when we referred to the info we obtained elsewhere that they had been specfically told not to tell guests any of the updates because "it would cause problems". Instead of the offer other properties were making we were offered a wine and cheese party...lol. Of course all the angry owners showed up at the party wanting info and the managers left rather than answer questions.
Over the years there seemed to be this type of corporate culture in Aruba at the Marriott properties. I've heard of other examples in a similiar vein of things that transpired when friends were there. For us the bright light was always Allan and his open communication style. With him running things I never worried about who was minding the store. Quite frankly the timeshare never crossed my mind unless we were planning our trip
Now with the way things were imho handled by Marriott and the current board I doubt that I could , " be sure that the building is properly repaired/maintained and won't have ongoing problems." The question I keep asking myself is how would we ever know in this current lockdown climate and what would prevent the same type of thing from happening again ?
Like I said , I dont know what we'll do but the whole thing is just sad.

 

[Eric]

Once again your post has no substance. It's just a one sided opinion with no facts. This is what we learned ::

1. Questions were asked that we don't know the nature of, and they were told to ask again offline
2. Many guest getting towels ( 1 or 2?) said they won't buy in Ocean Club under these circumstances.What did you do, print out 20 pages of TUG for them to read ?
3. Surf Club was overbooked. What does that mean, people are sleeping at the pool ?
4. chairs to close to each other cause mold


The good news is you will let us know if anything intresting comes up next week ? What, maybe the ice cream will be melted in the onsite store ?

"I am currently on site and at the Owner's Reception last evening the latest resort information was poorly presented. The Management Team tried their best to dodge all the tough questions and asked quite a few owner's to take it off-line. In what seems to be the new norm, they seem to not be telling the whole truth. At the Towel Hut this morning many guests were very curious as to the real state of the union and said very clearly that they would never buy at the Ocean Club with these circumstances. I'll let you know if anything of interest comes up in the next week. One item of note is that many folks from the overbooked Surf Club are finding their way onto the Ocean Club beach and pool area. The new idea of chaining all the beach chairs up to the Palapas is going to cause a serious mold problem on all the chairs if they are not cleaned regularly, which it appears is not happening. But this is the least of our problems..."

 

[Luckybee]

Once again your post has no substance. It's just a one sided opinion with no facts. This is what we learned ::

1. Questions were asked that we don't know the nature of, and they were told to ask again offline
2. Many guest getting towels ( 1 or 2?) said they won't buy in Ocean Club under these circumstances.What did you do, print out 20 pages of TUG for them to read ?
3. Surf Club was overbooked. What does that mean, people are sleeping at the pool ?
4. chairs to close to each other cause mold

Eric....yours is the post with no substance..do we really need to nitpic in this fashion....Lets deal with your post in the same way shall we:

"Once again your post has no substance. It's just a one sided opinion with no facts"

First of all tMark hasnt given his opinion on anything. He has simply passed on an email he received. What facts did you want....the ones that say Marriott can do no wrong over and over again. Sorry but you wont get that from many owners of the OC.

"1. Questions were asked that we don't know the nature of, and they were told to ask again offline "

And your point is ? Gee you arent being told everything...too bad so sad...what does this have to do with an opinion? Owners have asked questions, they arent getting answers. Pretty simple...what part of it did you not understand?

"2. Many guest getting towels ( 1 or 2?) said they won't buy in Ocean Club under these circumstances.What did you do, print out 20 pages of TUG for them to read ?"

Like it or not Eric, these issues have been a very hot topic by many at the OC. Although we didnt take our trips this year we have a number of other friends who have and all have told me that this is a constant discussion round the pool , beach, and yes towel hut, whiich by the way over the years(and Im sure not being an owner you wouldnt be aware of) was a general meet and talk place for owners in the early morning. Wouldnt need to print out Tug, people are talking about it at the property.

"3. Surf Club was overbooked. What does that mean, people are sleeping at the pool ?"

No actually they dont sleep at the pool. When it happens(and this wouldnt be the first time, they are usually put up in either the OC or hotel, and visa versa). It also happens when the AC breaks down at the two timeshare properties...but only if you complain about it very loudly...otherwise they leave you in the hot room without AC for the entire week !

"4. chairs to close to each other cause mold "

I didnt know this...guess I learned something new. I also wasnt aware of the chaining of the chairs policy.

"The good news is you will let us know if anything intresting comes up next week ?"

I hope so!

"What, maybe the ice cream will be melted in the onsite store ?"

Well this isnt really something as an owner that would be of interest to me, but obviously since Eric wants to know perhaps Mark you could try to find out for him.



Thanks for passing on the email Mark. It's appreciated by this owner!