Welk/Hyatt Maintenance Fees [and Marriott's Influence?]

[DayTraveler]

Hello. Welk / Hyatt owners are posting on the Welk Platinum Owners Facebook site that their maintenance fees are going up by 18% and some are saying more. We have been with Coronado for 10 years and our fees have barely gone up. I see 6% as reasonable and accepted for 2 years in a row 10% based on inflation, etc. but 18%. That is insane. If owners do nothing it will keep climbing and vacations will not be affordable. I am really concerned about this and want to take some kind of action especially now that we are still pretty close to the change from Welk to Hyatt. Does anyone have any advice please?

 

[DayTraveler]

[Moderator Note: This Post #2 and all through Post #15 in this thread have been moved from the MF's discussion thread in the TUG Marriott forum because they are specific to the Hyatt/Welk resorts. Although Marriott Vacations Worldwide is the parent company of Hyatt/Welk, on TUG we're still separating the specific brands into their own forums so that it's easier for owners in each to sift through pertinent info.] <-- SueDonJ

At times it is more than just specific tasks or expense items. Several years ago Grande Vista spent tens of thousands on a towel folding maching. This would allow them to turn pool towels over faster and require less staff to manually fold towels. I asked the BOD at the BOD meeting if that would result in fewer staff overall and lower cost. The answer was no. So they spent the tens of thousands of dollars, but it didn't save any money. They also installed self serve Towel Tracker machines, that meant no one had to man a towel hut all day. Were there any cost savings, well there could have been but I doubt they reduced overall staff.

Welk / Hyatt had an increase of 18% for 2024 that is INSANE. We won't be able to afford anything soon.

 

[VacationForever]

Welk / Hyatt had an increase of 18% for 2024 that is INSANE. We won't be able to afford anything soon.

It is very likely MVC's MVW's doing.

 

[DayTraveler]

It is very likely MVC's doing.

I feel stupid asking but what is MVC and how could they impact the Welk / Hyatt is charging? And is it even allowable? People are really unhappy. And I am getting tired of complaining.

 

[Hindsite]

It is very likely MVC's doing.

Could be MVW, unlikely to be MVC.

 

[VacationForever]

Could be MVW, unlikely to be MVC.

True. MVW.

 

[VacationForever]

I feel stupid asking but what is MVC and how could they impact the Welk / Hyatt is charging? And is it even allowable? People are really unhappy. And I am getting tired of complaining.

The parent company is Marriott Vacation Worldwide. The MF is spiralling out of control.

 

[Hindsite]

I feel stupid asking but what is MVC and how could they impact the Welk / Hyatt is charging? And is it even allowable? People are really unhappy. And I am getting tired of complaining.

MVC, is Marriott Vacation Club, who share the same parent company as Hyatt/Welk Vacation Clubs (or whatever they are called), Sheraton Vacation Club and Westin Vacation Club.
None of them impact each other as far as maint fees go, but their Parent MVW may impact any or all of them.

 

[cubigbird]

I’m curious to why MVW timeshares are increasing at a rate mostly significantly higher than competitors. Why are many Marriott timeshares increasing at 15-25% when companies like Hilton are mostly increasing at low single %. There is inflation, but competitors seem to be handling that much more prudently. It seems as if there is no fiscal restraint. Certainly Marriott will see a much higher delinquent owner %. Are they trying to price weeks owners out to encourage surrendering so they can take them back or get them into Abound? I’m not saying anything sinister is happening here but Marriott seems to be the anomaly, not the norm.

 

[VacationForever]

I’m curious to why MVW timeshares are increasing at a rate mostly significantly higher than competitors. Why are many Marriott timeshares increasing at 15-25% when companies like Hilton are mostly increasing at low single %. There is inflation, but competitors seem to be handling that much more prudently. It seems as if there is no fiscal restraint. Certainly Marriott will see a much higher delinquent owner %. Are they trying to price weeks owners out to encourage surrendering so they can take them back or get them into Abound? I’m not saying anything sinister is happening here but Marriott seems to be the anomaly, not the norm.

The issue is that operating costs are going up significantly in MVC, but I cannot speak on behalf of Hyatt/Welk. The million dollar question is are they sourcing much higher cost products and/or are they paying staff more than the industry. I suspect it is both and the issue lies with the HOA board not pushing back on both. When HOA doesn't care or do their job, we suffer as owners.

 

[timsi]

The issue is that operating costs are going up significantly in MVC, cannot speak on behalf of Hyatt/Welk. The million dollar question is are they sourcing much higher cost products and/or are they paying staff more than the industry. I suspect it is both and the issue lies with the HOA board not pushing back on both. When HOA doesn't care or do their job, we suffer as owners.

As outlined in the Lagunamar Auditor's report, the resort's expenses are covered by the Manager (Marriott), with the expectation of reimbursement. This arrangement seems unusual to me, given that we pay our maintenance fees upfront at the beginning of the year, and it brings into question the necessity of financial "support" from Marriott. It is clearly designed in a way that Marriott has full control. This raises valid questions about the possibility of double dipping. Moreover, there is uncertainty about whether we are paying a fair price for goods and services.

The association's apparent deficiency in effective oversight mechanisms further compounds these concerns. The ability to accurately track detailed costs, particularly in cases of substantial expenditures, becomes questionable.

 

[DayTraveler]

I’m curious to why MVW timeshares are increasing at a rate mostly significantly higher than competitors. Why are many Marriott timeshares increasing at 15-25% when companies like Hilton are mostly increasing at low single %. There is inflation, but competitors seem to be handling that much more prudently. It seems as if there is no fiscal restraint. Certainly Marriott will see a much higher delinquent owner %. Are they trying to price weeks owners out to encourage surrendering so they can take them back or get them into Abound? I’m not saying anything sinister is happening here but Marriott seems to be the anomaly, not the norm.

Thank you for this share I think you bring up some really great points. Something is very wrong indeed.

 

[DayTraveler]

As outlined in the Lagunamar Auditor's report, the resort's expenses are covered by the Manager (Marriott), with the expectation of reimbursement. This arrangement seems unusual to me, given that we pay our maintenance fees upfront at the beginning of the year, and it brings into question the necessity of financial "support" from Marriott. It is clearly designed in a way that Marriott has full control. This raises valid questions about the possibility of double dipping. Moreover, there is uncertainty about whether we are paying a fair price for goods and services.

The association's apparent deficiency in effective oversight mechanisms further compounds these concerns. The ability to accurately track detailed costs, particularly in cases of substantial expenditures, becomes questionable.

I don't know have your understanding but something is very very wrong. I feel like something needs to be done and owners need to stick together. Thank you for sharing.

 

[DayTraveler]

The issue is that operating costs are going up significantly in MVC, cannot speak on behalf of Hyatt/Welk. The million dollar question is are they sourcing much higher cost products and/or are they paying staff more than the industry. I suspect it is both and the issue lies with the HOA board not pushing back on both. When HOA doesn't care or do their job, we suffer as owners.

Thank you very much for sharing. I want to get folks on the same page and please take some sort of action. This is just terrible.

 

[DayTraveler]

As outlined in the Lagunamar Auditor's report, the resort's expenses are covered by the Manager (Marriott), with the expectation of reimbursement. This arrangement seems unusual to me, given that we pay our maintenance fees upfront at the beginning of the year, and it brings into question the necessity of financial "support" from Marriott. It is clearly designed in a way that Marriott has full control. This raises valid questions about the possibility of double dipping. Moreover, there is uncertainty about whether we are paying a fair price for goods and services.

The association's apparent deficiency in effective oversight mechanisms further compounds these concerns. The ability to accurately track detailed costs, particularly in cases of substantial expenditures, becomes questionable.

Thank you for sharing I am relieved to see that other folks know things are not ok.

 

[DayTraveler]

Could we not attribute what is happening to the Hyatt purchase and take action as a group maybe a class action or some other kind of action? If we just accept it we can forget affordable vacationing.

 

[cubigbird]

If we just accept it we can forget affordable vacationing.

That’s when the “death spiral” occurs, that is when owners stop paying, delinquency rises so significantly that more owners stop paying. It’s one thing to raise the fees but when they are raised sky high or too high over market, the whole model collapses.

 

[sponger76]

Could we not attribute what is happening to the Hyatt purchase and take action as a group maybe a class action or some other kind of action? If we just accept it we can forget affordable vacationing.

Good luck with that. I'm very unhappy with the MF increases this year, but people are always threatening class action lawsuits against timeshare companies, and it is exceedingly rare that anything positive comes of it for owners. I would think that dissatisfaction with MF rates of increase would not, in and of itself, be something you would have much legal basis for winning such a suit. You'd probably need evidence to prove actual fraud in the way MFs are determined and assessed, which I think might be extremely hard to do.

MFs are approved by individual resort HOAs, and for points-based trusts they are generally based on their share of HOA-approved MFs for the resorts in which the trust owns inventory, plus some additional overhead for running the trust itself. You're more likely to have success pushing back against MF increases by influencing HOA boards, which means getting candidates (or yourself) elected to various resort HOA boards that will strenuously resist large increases. The problem is that it isn't easy to get people elected. I don't know how correct it is, but many feel that the timeshare companies have an outsized influence on who gets elected to HOA boards, therefore making it more likely that HOAs will just approve the budgets suggested by those companies.

 

[DayTraveler]

That’s when the “death spiral” occurs, that is when owners stop paying, delinquency rises so significantly that more owners stop paying. It’s one thing to raise the fees but when they are raised sky high or too high over market, the whole model collapses.

I see this as the case and many folks on the Welk Platinum FB site are already saying they cannot afford and won't pay.

 

[DayTraveler]

Good luck with that. I'm very unhappy with the MF increases this year, but people are always threatening class action lawsuits against timeshare companies, and it is exceedingly rare that anything positive comes of it for owners. I would think that dissatisfaction with MF rates of increase would not, in and of itself, be something you would have much legal basis for winning such a suit. You'd probably need evidence to prove actual fraud in the way MFs are determined and assessed, which I think might be extremely hard to do.

MFs are approved by individual resort HOAs, and for points-based trusts they are generally based on their share of HOA-approved MFs for the resorts in which the trust owns inventory, plus some additional overhead for running the trust itself. You're more likely to have success pushing back against MF increases by influencing HOA boards, which means getting candidates (or yourself) elected to various resort HOA boards that will strenuously resist large increases. The problem is that it isn't easy to get people elected. I don't know how correct it is, but many feel that the timeshare companies have an outsized influence on who gets elected to HOA boards, therefore making it more likely that HOAs will just approve the budgets suggested by those companies.

I am blown away by the knowledge you TUG folks have thank you for such an informative response. I feel like I need to do something. I was thinking about how I could obtain a mailing list of all members to take a poll and go from there. Here is a comment from someone from the Welk site:

The Platinum Owners Association's Board is composed of all HVC employees as they retain significant voting power due to unsold points. The right questions regarding budget etc. are the right questions to be asking, but there is little that can be done when the developer controls the Board. It is what it is unfortunately.

 

[DayTraveler]

Here is a Welk member that has 2 million points check out how his MF's have changed:

2019: $8163
2020: $8116
2021: $8523
2022: $9167
2023: $10,021
2024: $11,895

Today is 30% over 2022 40% over 2021.

Check out the gentle changes and then the huge jumps starting in 2022. Right after Welk was acquired by Hyatt.

 

[cubigbird]

Here is a Welk member that has 2 million points check out how his MF's have changed:

2019: $8163
2020: $8116
2021: $8523
2022: $9167
2023: $10,021
2024: $11,895

Today is 30% over 2022 40% over 2021.

Check out the gentle changes and then the huge jumps starting in 2022. Right after Welk was acquired by Hyatt.

Hyatt Vacation Club is also owned by Marriott. Go figure…..large increases. Disney is coming in mostly 2% and under with the highest at 6-7%…..still well below anything within the Marriott umbrella.

 

[ScoopKona]

I feel like I need to do something. I was thinking about how I could obtain a mailing list of all members to take a poll and go from there. Here is a comment from someone from the Welk site:

The Platinum Owners Association's Board is composed of all HVC employees as they retain significant voting power due to unsold points. The right questions regarding budget etc. are the right questions to be asking, but there is little that can be done when the developer controls the Board. It is what it is unfortunately.

You're basically in "you can't fight city hall" territory. The new Florida law which requires condo communities to increase reserves and perform more maintenance (so that condos don't collapse and kill their occupants) is hitting Florida timesharing hard -- and any points-only system with condos in Florida.

Home maintenance is more expensive, too. It's no different -- except for the fact that I'm shopping my best deals and doing the work myself on home maintenance. With a condo association, they only deal with contractors. That means everything costs more. It's basically the same as complaining about the cost of a restaurant -- food went up, utilities went up, commercial rent skyrocketed, and the employees want a raise or else they'll be homeless.

My maintenance fees went up a third this year because of that new law. I'd LOVE to have a mere 18% increase. I don't really care about this increase because I'm still able to wring 3-5 weeks of vacation out of my single week. That means my per-night cost is anywhere between $60 to $100. That's still a solid win for timesharing over even cheap hotels like Motel 6.

 

[DayTraveler]

I tried to share a post from the Welk Platinum FB site. It did not show well so i pasted the dialogue below. I am becoming a little obsessed with this and that is not healthy so I am going to tune off for a bit. I sure would appreciate it if you super informed TUG folks could let me know if you think that this is as weird as I do and or if I am being too jaded in my response. Have a good day.

 

[DayTraveler]

[Moderator Note: This entire post has been edited/deleted because the TUG Rules prohibit ads in the public forums. Admittedly I can't figure out if you're copying/pasting your comments (so your ads) from Facebook or if they're someone else's, but either way they include the contact information and other sales-related details that aren't allowed here. If there was a point other than promoting the ad from FB, let me know in a private message if there are specific comments not-ad-related that you want to be un-deleted.] <-- SueDonJ