Looking for some Wyndham wisdom

[bouch181]

I currently own 300,000 developer purchased points at Midtown 45 giving me VIP(Bronze) benefits.

I would like to purchase more points and was wondering if I should look for a resale contract or purchase more developer ones and go to a different VIP level. Trying to figure what would work best. I'm trying to understand why so many of you have multiple contracts and the benefit of that. Sorry if this has been explained before, new TUGger here trying to learn as much as possible. I posted this yesterday and just realized it wasn't in the Wyndham section. Appreciate any help.

What is PIC? never heard of this during any sales meetings. Are these something that I should consider buying?

 

[HitchHiker71]

The Wyndham PIC Program

Q: What is the PIC Program and how can it save me money on VIP? PIC stands for Personal Interval Choice. The directory explains more, but this is the nutshell version. If you have a qua…

wyndhamexperts.org

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[55plus]

If not PIC, then go resale.

 

[bouch181]

Thank you for the link to the PIC Program. I read through it, but I am still confused on how that would work. And how to get it?

 

[troy12n]

Thank you for the link to the PIC Program. I read through it, but I am still confused on how that would work. And how to get it?

Well, for starters, you have to own a qualifying timeshare. I'm sure there's a list somewhere, but it has to be in the RCI system I believe.

So if you don't own another timeshare already, you would have to buy one. That being said, you can usually pick one up for cheap on the resale market.

Then you have to buy a relatively small number of retail points from Wyndham to enroll in PIC. I have heard the number 47,000 points thrown around.


Wyndham Telesales can register you in PIC, and sell you the points you need cheapest of any method outside of resale.

If your goal is to go from Bronze to Silver, i'm not sure there is much value in that, honestly. In which case you probably should just buy resale if you think you need more points...

 

[dgalati]

I currently own 300,000 developer purchased points at Midtown 45 giving me VIP(Bronze) benefits.

I would like to purchase more points and was wondering if I should look for a resale contract or purchase more developer ones and go to a different VIP level. Trying to figure what would work best. I'm trying to understand why so many of you have multiple contracts and the benefit of that. Sorry if this has been explained before, new TUGger here trying to learn as much as possible. I posted this yesterday and just realized it wasn't in the Wyndham section. Appreciate any help.

What is PIC? never heard of this during any sales meetings. Are these something that I should consider buying?

Wyndham PIC links attached. You probably want PIC Plus not PIC express

PIC Plus Contract

Are you a Club Wyndham owner? Learn more about Personal Interval Choice Plus, which allows members to enroll non-Club Wyndham timeshare weeks to be applied their VIP status.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

PIC Express Contract

Are you a Club Wyndham owner? Learn more about Personal Interval Choice Express, which allows members to enroll non-Club Wyndham timeshare weeks to be applied their VIP status.

clubwyndham.wyndhamdestinations.com

 

[bnoble]

It's been a while since I've done it, but every time I've looked it's hard to justify a developer purchase to get to VIP in dollars-and-cents terms, even using PIC. That may be different if you've already bought a non-trivial number of developer points, but I never did so I never looked at it that way. It's also possible that there are reasons other than dollars-and-cents why you might want a particular VIP level.

That said, I agree with PP who said the value of Silver is dubious at any cost.

 

[jwalk03]

And the cost proposition of VIP is even worse now, since it no longer includes unlimited housekeeping credits, and under the new structure its $159 to buy one!

 

[bouch181]

So silver seems to not be worth it from what I'm reading. Say I wanted to go to VIP gold. Would the best route be getting two PICs and another qualifying timeshare? somewhere?

I'm confused on buying resale contracts. Are these points able to be combined together with my current points.

 

[bogey21]

I don't own Wyndham but like to know the value of spending thousands of dollars for the sole purpose of getting a higher VIP level. Are the higher levels really worth it...

George

 

[troy12n]

Thank you for the link to the PIC Program. I read through it, but I am still confused on how that would work. And how to get it?

You could get from where you are at to Gold with two 3BR PIC Plus contracts, you might possibly be able to do it with a 3BR and 2BR PIC plus some additional points.

The big thing is, one of the big values of VIP was unlimited housekeeping credits. Which Silver and all the other VIP levels had prior to 10/31/20. None of them have this now unless you were at least permanent Silver prior to 11/1/20. Bronze didn't exist before then, so it would have never qualified.


Getting to Gold gets you unlimited reservation transactions, and 35% discount within 60 days, plus a couple other things which may not matter to you, like the ability to pick (request) a specific unit at reservation. Silver only gets you a 25% discount within 60 days.

I'm Temp Gold / Permanent Silver with 570k dev points and grandfathered in with unlimited HK and am considering a 3BR PIC to get me to gold. I was trying to get in before November because I own another 2BR TS, but found it didn't qualify for PIC program because it's not "RCI compatible" or something. But i'm not doing anything until after COVID because I just don't need the points. I will have 1.2 million points to use in 2022 because we transferred EVERYTHING from last contract year to 2022 and I have 760k left to use between now and September which i'm not sure what the hell i'm going to do with them because my family is not comfortable with travelling right now. May send the whole thing to Extra Vacations for them to rent.

 

[bouch181]

Thanks Troy (and everyone else). All those points sounds like a good problem to have lol. Any idea on what those 3BR PIC Plus contracts would cost?

 

[HitchHiker71]

Thanks Troy (and everyone else). All those points sounds like a good problem to have lol. Any idea on what those 3BR PIC Plus contracts would cost?

The PIC Plus contract itself will only amount to the cost of the program fees for the contract points, so if it's a 3 bedroom PIC contact for 254k points, the annual contract cost will be around $165/year IIRC. Of course, you will also need to pay the annual MFs for the non-Wyndham weeks based timeshare associated with the PIC contract, which will vary dependent upon the timeshare you choose. Lastly, there's the $89 fee to convert the PIC property into points, if you so choose, on an annual basis. I have two three bedroom PIC contracts. One at OBBC I in Outer Banks, which costs about $750/year for MFs. My other is a 4 bedroom at Colonies at Williamsburg, which runs around $900/year for MFs.

 

[bouch181]

Thank you HH71. Those MF's do not seem too bad. Between both of yours, that's roughly what I am currently paying on my 300k points at Midtown. Something to consider. Thanks for the info. Wish I would have found this site a few months ago.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Thank you HH71. Those MF's do not seem too bad. Between both of yours, that's roughly what I am currently paying on my 300k points at Midtown. Something to consider. Thanks for the info. Wish I would have found this site a few months ago.

As others have already said, if you want to have permanent PIC Plus contracts on your account, you'll have to make a developers purchase to do so, at least 49k points per PIC contract (max of 2 per account). Since you already own 300k points, if you were to add 508k via two 3 bedroom PIC properties, plus the developer points purchase, that would put you up to 508k+300k+98k=906k points minimum. If I were to consider your scenario, I would want to get up to VIPP - which requires 1.1MM points. That would mean purchasing 300k more points. At $150/1k - that would mean $45,000 for the developers point purchase, which is pretty steep. Only you can decide if it's worth it. VIPG, let's assume a two bedroom and a three bedroom PIC property, 254k+154k=358k+300k=658k. VIPG requires 800k points, so you would need to purchase 142k points. Again at $150/1k points, that would mean around $21,300 - or less than half of what VIPP would cost you. This assumes CWA points purchased via telesales - if you were to add more Midtown45 points, the cost/1k would be higher.

 

[dgalati]

As others have already said, if you want to have permanent PIC Plus contracts on your account, you'll have to make a developers purchase to do so, at least 49k points per PIC contract (max of 2 per account). Since you already own 300k points, if you were to add 508k via two 3 bedroom PIC properties, plus the developer points purchase, that would put you up to 508k+300k+98k=906k points minimum. If I were to consider your scenario, I would want to get up to VIPP - which requires 1.1MM points. That would mean purchasing 300k more points. At $150/1k - that would mean $45,000 for the developers point purchase, which is pretty steep. Only you can decide if it's worth it. VIPG, let's assume a two bedroom and a three bedroom PIC property, 254k+154k=358k+300k=658k. VIPG requires 800k points, so you would need to purchase 142k points. Again at $150/1k points, that would mean around $21,300 - or less than half of what VIPP would cost you. This assumes CWA points purchased via telesales - if you were to add more Midtown45 points, the cost/1k would be higher.

45k would pay for a lot of rentals. You can travel for less if you rent from VIP in the 60 day discount window. Find a VIP that passes along the 50% Discount and free room upgrades.

 

[troy12n]

This assumes CWA points purchased via telesales - if you were to add more Midtown45 points, the cost/1k would be higher.

Does Telesales just sell Access now?

 

[dgalati]

It's been a while since I've done it, but every time I've looked it's hard to justify a developer purchase to get to VIP in dollars-and-cents terms, even using PIC. That may be different if you've already bought a non-trivial number of developer points, but I never did so I never looked at it that way. It's also possible that there are reasons other than dollars-and-cents why you might want a particular VIP level.

That said, I agree with PP who said the value of Silver is dubious at any cost.

I concur very hard for me also to justify the cost of buying up to any level of VIP. A lot can happen in the 7-10 years that some have claimed to be their break even point.

 

[HitchHiker71]

I concur very hard for me also to justify the cost of buying up to any level of VIP. A lot can happen in the 7-10 years that some have claimed to be their break even point.

This statement is true of all life decisions - no one can predict the future. Just ask the millions of baby boomers who had intended to retire until the Great Recession hit and they lost 40-50% of their retirement funds which took 10+ years to recover. There's always risks involved when making all financial decisions loosely based upon normalcy bias.

 

[HitchHiker71]

Does Telesales just sell Access now?

AFAIK telesales typically only sells CWA contracts. That was the case when I purchased in July 2018, but admittedly I haven't asked the question recently, so it's certainly possible this could have changed. @bendadin would likely know as she recently processed a developer purchase through telesales IIRC.

 

[dgalati]

This statement is true of all life decisions - no one can predict the future. Just ask the millions of baby boomers who had intended to retire until the Great Recession hit and they lost 40-50% of their retirement funds which took 10+ years to recover. There's always risks involved when making all financial decisions loosely based upon normalcy bias.

The 2008 50% pull back along with the 30% March 2020 pull back also taught me that holding long term is better then selling at the bottom.

 

[troy12n]

The 2008 50% pull back along with the 30% March 2020 pull back also taught me that holding long term is better then selling at the bottom.

Yeah, I feel bad for the people who sold at the bottom in late March or Early April... my portfolio completely recovered by October, and i'm well over where I was in early January 2020. If you remember there was a dip in late January even before COVID hit

 

[dgalati]

Yeah, I feel bad for the people who sold at the bottom in late March or Early April... my portfolio completely recovered by October, and i'm well over where I was in early January 2020. If you remember there was a dip in late January even before COVID hit

My portfolio was dn 30% at the end of March 2020 but today its up over 25%

 

[CCdad]

Does Telesales just sell Access now?

That’s what Telesales said once the resorts started to reopen last summer.

Unless you can afford to pay cash or get a reasonable equity line rate, it’s that much harder to justify a developer purchase if you’re financing through Wyndham.

You can find 3Br PIC qualifying properties on either Ebay, Timeshare Nation and perhaps even in the TUG marketplace (either free or almost free). They must be annual deeds (not EOY) that aren’t associated with an RCI points resort, as Wyndham has started to tighten the rules.

Some good candidates are the Massanutten and Williamsburg properties in VA. I’d recommend either getting two 3Br or 4Br PICs vs just acquiring a 2Br and a 3Br/4Br. Why not shoot for 900k if the developer purchase cost is the same for CWA through telesales?


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[bendadin]

AFAIK telesales typically only sells CWA contracts. That was the case when I purchased in July 2018, but admittedly I haven't asked the question recently, so it's certainly possible this could have changed. @bendadin would likely know as she recently processed a developer purchase through telesales IIRC.

I bought in November and again recently. Same sales rep at telesales. If you don't trade anything in they can do matching bonus points. And there are rebate checks.