Lesson learned, even when you get the week for free title insurance is important

[chapjim]

You may have to file suit to quiet title.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

Can someone explain quiet title and what such a suit would typically cost?

 

[chapjim]

The idea is to "quiet" claims to the title of property. A Google search will result in pages of hits. OP's case seems to be ideal since the facts are well known and other claims to the property are unlikely.

It is unusual in that OP would have to file the suit and pay filing costs and attorney's fees to establish title in her name so she can give it away. Maybe she can work a deal.

Cost would depend on the attorney's hourly rate, how complex the case is, and whether it is contested.

 

[theo]

Limited warranty deed, now this is sounding even more complicated then I thought. In 2010 transfer from owner with same last name as owner who sold to me was improperly done because it was transferred as an individual when she received the property as a trustee to those who signed the deed to me.

I just emailed Redweek closing department as I got it from them as a verified week. I have emails and address of who signed the deed to me. I will see what Redweek says as it would be best if they contacted them.

I certainly wish you luck and success in resolving this mess, but I frankly would not expect much from RedWeek in way of meaningful assistance or any newfound competency. I'd be willing to bet that RedWeek overlooked and / or dismissed the very important distinction between a person acting for himself / herself as an individual vs. that same person acting in the capacity of Trustee. I would be further willing to bet that merely just seeing a common name would (unfortunately and entirely inappropriately) be "good enough" for RedWeek to proclaim "RedWeek verified".

 

[Panina]

Redweek ignored my emails. I personally felt Redweek contacting the selling party would be less intrusive then me contacting them directly.

Last night I emailed the Seller directly. I explained the situation and gave her my contacts name at Bluegreen. She answered me this morning saying she will call.

 

[pedro47]

Good luck.

 

[5finny]

Does not say much for Redweek.
Good luck

 

[5finny]

You said Redweek handled the whole transaction
I am making the leap that it was "verified" by Redweek

Redweek says:

How does RedWeek verify postings?
We require owners to send a copy of their reservation (for rental verification), deed or certificate of ownership, purchase agreement, and current maintenance statements (for resale verification) to verify that they do, in fact have the timeshare unit or points available to rent or sell. We confirm and clarify the information provided with the resort and/or management company as necessary.

Sounds like they did a poor or non existent job checking the Deed
You certainly were entitled to expect better

 

[dioxide45]

You said Redweek handled the whole transaction
I am making the leap that it was "verified" by Redweek

Redweek says:

How does RedWeek verify postings?
We require owners to send a copy of their reservation (for rental verification), deed or certificate of ownership, purchase agreement, and current maintenance statements (for resale verification) to verify that they do, in fact have the timeshare unit or points available to rent or sell. We confirm and clarify the information provided with the resort and/or management company as necessary.

Sounds like they did a poor or non existent job checking the Deed
You certainly were entitled to expect better

I doubt they check chain of title. Which is what appears to be the issue here.

 

[5finny]

They say they check a copy of the deed
If they do so so that deed should have shown the trust

 

[dioxide45]

They say they check a copy of the deed
If they do so so that deed should have shown the trust

Doubtful. They are doing a cursory check to make sure the seller owns and is selling what they say they are selling. It also seems that the trust issue was before the previous owner. Perhaps two owners ago? Not sure. These are why you get title insurance. They do a title search to turn up these issues.

 

[5finny]

If the trust issue was two owners ago I agree that a check of the current owners deed would not have disclosed anything.
I also agree that just because you are buying a Redweek verified listing it does not mean that you should skip title insurance
But if Redweek says that they have verified things I think you are entitled to assume that they have in fact verified those things
If the deed to the seller was to Suzy Q and Suzy Q deeded to the OP as Suzy Q then Redweek did what they said they were doing and I am not suggesting that they needed to check further
If, on the other hand, the deed to the seller was to Suzy Q trustee of the Suzy Q Family trust but Redweek said the owner was Suzy Q then Redweek either didn't check the deed or they checked it and missed it.

Of course I am still assuming that this was a "verified" listing

No matter what it is disappointing that Redweek did not respond to the OP at all
It is encouraging,however, that the seller did so even if it was only to say she would respond later
If you are correct that the issue predates this seller then (unfortunately) there may be little this seller can do and as you suggest Redweek would likely have no culpability

I am still hoping that the problem originates with the OP's seller and the original seller will cooperate and sign a simple corrective deed to remedy the situation.
(Suzy Q trustee of the Suzy Q Family trust to OP)

If you have to go back several owners then instead of a simple problem that one cooperating former owner can resolve you have a much more complicated issue
I wish for the OP's sake that her situation is the former and not the later

 

[bogey21]

Over time I probably bought (and later divested) maybe 50 TS Weeks. Only once did I buy Title Insurance and that was my Monarch Crown Suite Week resale. Reason was I paid $25,000 for it. I figured I didn't need Title Insurance for my 3 Marriott pre-construction Weeks. The rest cost me between $0 and $2,500 and I didn't think it was worth it. Can you imagine how much it would have cost me to buy Title Insurance on 50 Weeks...

George

 

[tshd]

I agree that title insurance seems prudent for high cost weeks but for low cost/free weeks? I'm not an expert on chain of title but I feel like the title insurance is important to ensure that you legally own the property. So I have not bothered on low cost resales simply because I figured that the worst that would happen is that the resort would refuse to acknowledge my ownership and I would be out some money/effort. Seems to me that the way/number of times timeshares are resold they would be fraught with title issues, but unless someone comes forward to challenge them they go on undetected.

Wouldn't you just be able to walk away because basically you never had legal title to the property? How can the developer have it both ways?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I view it as a cost of the transaction. IMO $250 due diligence for a title search to uncover title issues and ensure the deed is correctly filed is worth it so I can cancel the deal upfront if anything is uncovered. If title cost a few thousand I might view otherwise; risk/reward. It depends on one's risk tolerance and portfolio. We do not trade actively so the relative cost is small but I can see the argument if you are an active trader - 50 timeshares is a lot of $.

 

[Bunk]

It seems like all you want to do is give the unit back to Bluegreen. If Bluegreen tells you that it does not recognize your ownership interest, then tell them to stop sending bills to you. I don't see how they can bill you if they are telling you the deed you received is defective. Let Bluegreen deal with this.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

On the flip side: Wondering what happens if you are the seller and you thought you had sold it/gave it away years ago but the deed wasn't filed correctly. Could you still be on the hook? It is not uncommon for children to pay for parent's MF. Could be considered rental of the unit. Could the TS Developer come back to the original seller for failure to pay MF because they are still the deeded owner?

 

[5finny]

I have bought several timeshares and have also either been given or paid next to nothing for several others (50 is way out of my league)
I usually try and go on line and just check the recorded deeds at the recorders office (or clerks office etc--depending on what they call it)
I tend to go back only one or two owners and then I am OK with it.
I know that I am assuming a risk but I am willing to do so rather than paying for a title policy
Someone who is risk adverse is probably better off buying a title policy
( I do not know but I would guess that anyone who buys 50 timeshares is not risk adverse )

In the OP's situation she is working with the HOA
If she can easily resolve the situation with the original seller she will have lost time and experienced aggravation but it will have all worked out.
If the problem is more complex and can't be easily resolved what I would do (and others could certainly and quite logically do something else) is:

Go to the HOA and tell them exactly what I have done to resolve the situation
AND Tell the HOA that I really can not do anything more
AND (as others have suggested) tell them that if they feel I don't own the unit that I will stop paying fees and then cooperate with them in handling the situation however they want .
AND Lastly if they insisted I was still liable to the HOA for maintenance fees and I thought it was going to hurt my credit I would offer to pay them one additional year of maintenance fees (or alternatively 1/2 of their foreclosure fees depending on the amount) as long as they then agreed that that ended any responsibility I might have

Someone else might not be willing to offer that and I actually suspect that one could successfully contest any derogatory credit information--but personally I would be willing to do that to avoid the hassle.
The HOA could then forclose and that would end any Title Issues

I am not suggesting that this is the only way to proceed or that the OP or anyone else should proceed in this way
It is simply one way to proceed

 

[Panina]

The way the seller got the deed was done wrong according to Bluegreen. A family member signed the deed over to them as an individual instead of as a signature from a trust. What I don’t know is if this individual is alive or if there is another trustee. I do know a lawyer handled it for them.

What I fault Redweek for is ignoring me. I will never use them again for anything. The verify option is false security. They check the person selling.

I am lucky the seller answered me and seems to want to help.

I always have the option to stop paying mf. Really do not care about my credit rating. It is in the best interest for the hoa/bluegreen to help fix this but as we know nothing is ever easy.

Almost all my other weeks were either gotten from HOAs or I got title insurance when purchase. This one I didn’t is a lesson learned for us all.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Panina I hope this comes to resolution quickly and smoothly. You are lucky you could still find the seller and they responded to you.

 

[bogey21]

I view it as a cost of the transaction. IMO $250 due diligence for a title search to uncover title issues and ensure the deed is correctly filed is worth it...

The Title to this thread said in part "Title Insurance is Important". I think there is a real difference in the cost of Title Insurance and doing a Title Search...

George

 

[CalGalTraveler]

From my experience a title search is part of the underwriting process so you don't pay extra. We always received a title report. However, maybe some firms approach this separately?

 

[dioxide45]

From my experience a title search is part of the underwriting process so you don't pay extra. We always received a title report. However, maybe some firms approach this separately?

That would be correct. The insurer is going to do a title search to make sure that what they are insuring is clear title. They don't want to insure something where a claim could come up later.

 

[Panina]

The Representative spoke with the seller this morning. She was kind enough to discuss it with him. She wants to help rectify the problem. He told her he was going to email their attorney who provided the report and explain the circumstances and ask for guidance. What I still don’t know is if the relative that gave it to the seller is still alive or if another trustee is.

 

[amycurl]

@Panina, your avatar #quarantimes hair is fantastic! Did you try any of the curly-hair products I suggested? I have a haircut scheduled for this week (maybe...originally scheduled for Monday, then Wed, now Friday...this is par for the course for my hairdresser who is a solo person,) and my hair is soooo long and think and I am lucky it's been so cool here this week, LOL.

#totalthreadhighjacking