Latest info from Marriott about buying resale

[rpw]

Just sat thru an Owner's Update at the Maui Ocean Club. Same basic stuff, amazing how many people have no idea how this all works.... probably should read TUG more :whoopie:

Here's some number's I was quoted:

30% of owner's own 2 or more weeks (and therefore can take advantage of the 13 month rule).

80% of Maui owner's occupy (which explains why trades are sometimes hard)

I was told your room assignment is basically based on when you reserved your room. So the first one to reserve a room gets the best view(another advantage to 13month)

She also made some comments about resale owners. First, she incorrectly said since they didn't buy from Marriott they don't get a VOA. Based on that this next bit of information is also questionable. She claimed the second disadvantage of not buy thru Marriott is that they are working on removing the 24 day rule from the resale customers from II. Just to refresh everyone's memory, when a Marriott customer is depositing a room with II, other Marriott customers have exclusive rights for the first 24 days to snatch it up. After that it is wide open to anyone in II.

What I didn't ask is what if you own a resale and a Marriott bought.....

 

[dioxide45]

Just sat thru an Owner's Update at the Maui Ocean Club. Same basic stuff, amazing how many people have no idea how this all works.... probably should read TUG more :whoopie:

Here's some number's I was quoted:

30% of owner's own 2 or more weeks (and therefore can take advantage of the 13 month rule).

80% of Maui owner's occupy (which explains why trades are sometimes hard)

While I am not disputing the numbers. These are numbers that would push you towards buying at Maui. Classic sales talk to get you to buy your second week and buy Maui so you won't have to trade in.

 

[cigarboo]

She claimed the second disadvantage of not buy thru Marriott is that they are working on removing the 24 day rule from the resale customers from II. Just to refresh everyone's memory, when a Marriott customer is depositing a room with II, other Marriott customers have exclusive rights for the first 24 days to snatch it up.

Humm, so I wonder if I had a high demand resale bought week, would the developer bought owner get the 24 day priority on my resale week? Seems a bit foul to take my week and give it to Marriott bought owners, but not give me the same priority courtesy. No way would I ever trade my week then. I wouldn't buy any more Marriotts whether by resale or developer, since resale prices would fall.

Thanks for the update.

 

[jerseyfinn]

Thanks for the info RPW. One thing that I would stress to all MVC owners is that it is important to know and understand the characteristics and nuances of each resort you own at. Although the MVC product is uniform, how the resorts function/behave is not necessarily uniform. Many variables come into plays such as who owns, how many weeks they own, how many owners occupy their weeks, how they use their lockoffs, & what the high season(s) or weeks are. This part varies resort by resort.

It's instructive to all of us to get figures about owner occupancy ( 80% at Maui or any Hawaii resort is not a surprise to me as it's a great destination . . . also explains why trades can be tricky ).

I agree with dioxide's warning that you spoke to a sales rep who says some things which may not add up. Does she say that 1/3 of owners at Maui own multiple weeks at Maui/Hawaii, or do 1/3 of Maui owners own multiple weeks ( in general ). This may or may not give an owner a clue as to how intense competition for occupancy will be.

The remark that makes my ears perk up is that room assignment at Maui is based upon when you make your reservation. Think about this remark. All MVC owners pay the same MF every year and the majority queue up like faithful lemmings fighting the busy signals until they get their reservation confirmed for the week they want some 12 or 13 months out. But this rep is saying that villa assignment is assigned by the order in which your reservation is received? Now I'm a practical guy who knows that just as the Rolling Stones song says, you can't always get what you want ( in terms of villa assignment that is ). But as an owner who pays his MFs, I sure hope that my resort will try to rotate those good views around ( not an especially impossible task to an attentive rersort if 80% of owners come back every year and MVC can make a list and make an effort at creating a relative owner equity in terms of assignments ). This could be a sales ploy ( I hope that it is ).

Likewise she sounds a bit murky on the resale stuff. I too would be concerned about MVC treating a resale customer like a second class citizen in terms of trades. OTOH, I could understand Marriott's logic in creating a perk for developer purchases which gives them a leg up in the trade game when/if MVC takes over internal trading. I've gotten vague responses from our resort GMs/staff on this topic.

I guess my point here is that the sale reps may or may not give accurate information . . . we've have some good reps who answer our questions without waggle and others who tend towards vagueness when pushed. Another good source of information are those resort GM/staff get-togethers with owners. I'm always looking for info about sales, who owns, occupancy rates by season and other issues such as villa assignments & local issues which may affect the resort etc. And these folks know what is and what is not.

Not saying that what she tells you is wrong, but if I owned at Maui and heard that comment about villa assignments, I'd be firing off a message to my resort GM right now to clear that one up real fast. Accurate information about every MVC resort is very useful to all of us as it helps owners or those owners looking to trade into a resort.

Thanks for your post and info. I guess that it goes without saying that you're having a great stay in Hawaii.

Barry

 

[thinze3]

Everytime I speak to my VOA, the one that was obtained with a Marriott resale, she tells me that the date of room request is first priority and urges me to both put something on my reservation and call the resort immediately. Of course that is for owners vs owners, traders vs traders, etc.. The resort may even tell you that they cannot place requests until about two weeks out, but if you stand firm somebody will take your request.

I can, on the other hand, also understand a scenario where those who do NOT request a specific room or building, a simple "who reserved first" policy would make sense.

Terry

 

[LAX Mom]

Regarding occupancy in Hawaii at Marriott timeshares....

I've been told by several Marriott sales reps in Hawaii that the occupancy rates by owners are very high, 80%, 90%, 95% whatever.

However every time I stay there it seems most people are there on an exchange. When you talk to people at the pool, at the owners reception, anywhere on the resort grounds most seem to be exchangers. The majority are Marriott owners at other locations.

I think the Hawaii sales staff tell you the owners occupy at 80%, 90% to make it sound like you can never exchange into Hawaii unless you buy there. In 5 years I've had many exchanges into Hawaiian Marriott resorts

 

[thinze3]

Regarding occupancy in Hawaii at Marriott timeshares....
I've been told by several Marriott sales reps in Hawaii that the occupancy rates by owners are very high, 80%, 90%, 95% whatever....

Maybe the high number of owner direct rentals skews the number a bit as well. When we were last at Waiohai, summer before last, most people there were definately Waiohai owners.

Here is a quote many months ago from the Waiohai GM on a DIRECT email conversation. It supports what the sales people are stating.

Aloha Terry, It is great to hear from you. In response to your question our owner occupancy rate for 2008 will be very close to 70%. This is one of the highest in all the MVCI resorts, over double the average.

 

[dioxide45]

30% of owner's own 2 or more weeks (and therefore can take advantage of the 13 month rule).

An important note is that not all multiple week owners are able to book at 13 months out. While Hawaii has only one season, if they own at another resort in a season that doesn't coincide with peak time in Hawaii then there isn't a huge benefit to the 13 month rule. Now if they own two in Hawaii they can book at 13 months for any time of the year.

 

[rpw]

Just a follow up....

all the information I presented earlier is from an "owners meeting" where a VOA does the talking, not officially a sales person (is there really a difference?).

And based on a show of hands, I'd probably say that 80% of the people in that room owned at Maui.

So today I went to a Sales presentation. New Info:

Only was offered 10,000 points to sit thru the presentation, but I really wanted to see the new towers.

Every Year - Two Bedroom
Lahina Villas
Oceanfront - SOLD OUT
OceanView - 65,500
Mountain/Garden - 55,000

Napali Villas
OceanFront - 73,600
IslandView - 46,900

Every Other Year - Two Bedroom
OceanFront - 44,160
IslandView - 28,140

Incentive points
EveryYear
1BR - 200,000 MRP
2BR - 250,000 MRP
Fixed Weeks
250,000 MRP
EveryOtherYear
all (except Napili Villas 2BR OF) - 100,000
Napili Villas 2BR OF - 150,000

Nothing awe inspiring about the villas, the same basic layout of KoOlina, or most other 2BR lockoffs. I was hoping it was more like the newer extended 2brs where the lockoff is a one bedroom, no such luck.

They walked us around a 3 BR claiming that they had no two bedrooms to view (probable, but unlikely). The 3 BR gives a much greater sense of space then a 2BR. Our sales person explained it wasn't this large and even gave us a brochure showing the real layout, but if you weren't familiar with it, I'll bet you will be really disappointed when you first check into a 2br.

OK, that's all I got, OH! except the resales for Lahaina Villas 2 BR annual is going for 50,000, so the discounts for resale don't really seem to have applied much yet.

 

[Lawlar]

Resale Prices?

OK, that's all I got, OH! except the resales for Lahaina Villas 2 BR annual is going for 50,000, so the discounts for resale don't really seem to have applied much yet.

Are those floating units that are reselling at $50,000? Do you know what is the source of that info? I have noticed that two listings show "sold" on Redweek.

I listed my fixed unit OF Lahaina Villas TS on Redweek and TUG for $64,000 and had several different people interested in buying our unit. They owned the weeks before and after our week so our unit was especially appealing to them because they could then stay for 2 weeks.

Believe it or not - after all my complaining about Marriott - we decided for now to cancel our listing and enjoy our Maui Timeshare. The grandkid would have been heartbroken if we had sold. [Maybe we'll sell next year.]

*I saw a posting on TUG earlier this year of a Marriott printed form that showed the prices for the fixed week units in the Napili Villas. Can someone help me find that post? Thank you.*

 

[thinze3]

Funny that some of the posts from earlier in the year show Lahaina Villas sold out and now they are not. It also appears that prices have hardly risen at all in the last six months. With the possibility od additional MR points as an incentive, prices may actually be cheaper now.

Terry

http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65101 February
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68821 April
http://www.tugbbs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71861 May

 

[rpw]

hmmm

the form I was given was marked SOLD OUT for all of Lahaina Villas. Turns out they got some of them back........... I wonder how that happened.....

 

[tmcasey]

Lahaina Towers availability

When I was at my Lahaina Towers Oceanview room this July, they tried to get me to upgrade to an Ocean Front room in the other new tour. Told me they would give me the full price I paid, I just needed to give them $22K or so more. But it could be some people trade up and that is why they now have units available.
Tami

 

[nygiants11991]

Regarding occupancy in Hawaii at Marriott timeshares....

In 5 years I've had many exchanges into Hawaiian Marriott resorts

What was your trade and what time of year were you able to get?

 

[applegirl]

I think the Hawaii sales staff tell you the owners occupy at 80%, 90% to make it sound like you can never exchange into Hawaii unless you buy there. In 5 years I've had many exchanges into Hawaiian Marriott resorts

I think this is exactly what was happening. I went to the owner's meeting at Shadow Ridge recently and they showed an interesting pie chart for MVCI owners in general. It showed a 30% or so owner occupancy rate which I was surprised it was that low! Hawaii may be a bit higher but probably not 80%.

Janna

 

[GaryDouglas]

Every Year - Two Bedroom

Lahina Villas
Oceanfront - SOLD OUT

Napali Villas
OceanFront - 73,600

One thing to remember about these floating units is that you can reserve into either one.

 

[taffy19]

When I was at my Lahaina Towers Oceanview room this July, they tried to get me to upgrade to an Ocean Front room in the other new tour. Told me they would give me the full price I paid, I just needed to give them $22K or so more. But it could be some people trade up and that is why they now have units available.
Tami

Come to think of it, they mentioned this also to us when we did an update but we weren't interested as we like our location and why pay even more for a single week that we have already?

Our friends took a tour and they didn't even get a price sheet for the fixed week/unit oceanfront condos at the Lahaina or Napili tower. They explained the floating weeks and units to them and the presentation didn't last very long as our friends own points with another developer.

 

[taffy19]

Everytime I speak to my VOA, the one that was obtained with a Marriott resale, she tells me that the date of room request is first priority and urges me to both put something on my reservation and call the resort immediately. Of course that is for owners vs owners, traders vs traders, etc.. The resort may even tell you that they cannot place requests until about two weeks out, but if you stand firm somebody will take your request.

I can, on the other hand, also understand a scenario where those who do NOT request a specific room or building, a simple "who reserved first" policy would make sense.

Terry

This is what the MDSV-I unit assignment lady told me too that we should have made our choices known when we made our reservations a year ago and not a week or so before checking in so our unit choice was no longer availabe the last time we stayed there. However, many condos in phase I have a good view so it wasn't really a problem but you better reserve what you want immediately and not one or two weeks before you go there unless you remind them again but they will not tell you if you got your choice until you finally check in. They say that it is for security reasons.

I still wonder if each resort has their own reservation system for requesting a certain unit so you better find out what it is. I am so glad we own a fixed unit now and not have to worry all year long if we would get a decent view or a parking lot view. I would be so unhappy that it would spoil my vacation.

 

[rpw]

trading to get into Maui

What was your trade and what time of year were you able to get?

I traded my KoOlina lockoff for a one bedroom in the old section. So I basically consider this like for like in October

 

[wa.mama]

I still wonder if each resort has their own reservation system for requesting a certain unit so you better find out what it is. I am so glad we own a fixed unit now and not have to worry all year long if we would get a decent view or a parking lot view. I would be so unhappy that it would spoil my vacation.

Yes, I think the properties all have their own reservation system. At Waiohai, the room requests are taken a year in advance. At Ko Olina, room requests now go through the room controller 3-4 weeks prior to arrival. With Timberlodge, we used to make requests and out of sheer spite the controller would do exactly the opposite of what we requested (other owners also complained of this) so we stopped making requests at all.

 

[LAX Mom]

What was your trade and what time of year were you able to get?

I almost always trade into Hawaii Marriotts using Flexchange with deposits from Summit Watch & Mountainside.

 

[thinze3]

I almost always trade into Hawaii Marriotts using Flexchange with deposits from Summit Watch & Mountainside.

Just Curious. Do you buy your airline tickets BEFORE you get your Marriott trade, or do you buy them last minute as well?

Terry

 

[ajlm33]

What was your trade and what time of year were you able to get?

FWIW, I am also two out of two in trading into Ko Olina with the 2BR side of my MSU unit. In June 2007 and upcoming in May 2009, each time I got a 2BR Ko Olina unit in trade.

Makes one wonder why one would want to pay the high Hawaii purchase prices and MFs

 

[nygiants11991]

FWIW, I am also two out of two in trading into Ko Olina with the 2BR side of my MSU unit. In June 2007 and upcoming in May 2009, each time I got a 2BR Ko Olina unit in trade.

Makes one wonder why one would want to pay the high Hawaii purchase prices and MFs

What is MSU and what is annual your MF?

 

[Bill4728]

What is MSU and what is annual your MF?

From the Marriott FAQ

- Marriott's Aruba Surf Club • MSU