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JW Marriott Pool and Lazy River closed to Marriott Canyon Villas Owners and Guests / 2022 Dates [MERGED]

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SmartChoice

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Marriott Canyon Villas owners were notified Friday afternoon, Feb. 25, that they will not have access to the JW pool or lazy river from March 11 to 30, 2022. The spa and other amenities remain available during this time.
For water park lovers, Six Flags Hurricane Harbor is about 16 miles from the resort and is open on weekends from 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. starting March 12.
 
SmartChoice said:
Marriott Canyon Villas owners were notified Friday afternoon, Feb. 25, that they will not have access to the JW pool or lazy river from March 11 to 30, 2022. The spa and other amenities remain available during this time.
For water park lovers, Six Flags Hurricane Harbor is about 16 miles from the resort and is open on weekends from 11:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. starting March 12.
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Any explanation as to why? Spring Break? Certain groups at the hotel? I'd be surprised if the hotel hides behind the infamous Covid 19 spacing/social distancing excuse.
 
WBP said:
Any explanation as to why? Spring Break? Certain groups at the hotel? I'd be surprised if the hotel hides behind the infamous Covid 19 spacing/social distancing excuse.
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The e-mail didn't state a reason, but my guess is that the hotel and villas are probably booked to capacity. The last two weeks of March are always the most highly-demanded weeks of the year in the Scottsdale area, but this year is "off the charts" due to the pent-up desire to travel after two years of restrictions due to Covid. It's nearly impossible to find 2-bedroom accommodations anywhere in the area this year.
 
We are owners and will be visiting Canyon Villas during the last week of March. I just received my pre-arrival form and this information was included:

Canyon Villas Owners and Guests will not have access to JW Marriott's pool on the following 2022 dates:
  • Mar. 11-30
  • Apr. 1-17
  • May. 13-14
  • May. 27-30
  • Jun. 11
  • Jun. 17-18
  • Jul. 1-4
  • Jul. 15-16
  • Jul. 29-30
  • Sept. 2-5
  • Nov. 23-27
  • Dec. 17, 2022-Jan. 1, 2023
One of the key benefits to Canyon Villas ownership has always been the access to the JW pools and lazy river, and our maintenance fees include a cost for this benefit. I can't believe that we will not have access to the pools during our 8 day visit. In the past, pool access was typically limited to week days, but this is really ridiculous. I would think that MVC would have some ability to challenge this, or at least get that portion of our MF's refunded. I think the cost was $45 a few years ago. I guess I will stay elsewhere in March in the future.
 
I suspect the issue is in the use agreement that the HOA establishes with the hotel owner or management company. There is probably too much leeway in that agreement giving the hotel owner to create arbitrary blackout dates. These blackout dates should be well defined in that agreement and the fees paid by the owners in their MF adjusted accordingly.
 
We were there last year during the second week of March. We were told at check-in that the JW was closed to Canyon Villas guests due to emergency repairs at one of their pools. I didn't notice any pool closure when I went to Roy's, and another MCV guest said he went to use the lazy river and wasn't stopped and nothing was closed. It appears the JW is doing what they want to discourage MVC from getting the access we pay for. They are probably trying to get more of their own guests to pay the extravagant fees to use their private pool, in addition to their resort fees.
 
Fifteen years ago when we first started visiting Canyon Villas we spent a lot of time at the JW. It was brand new then and a very classy place.

Back then there was free valet parking over there for timeshare guests. Now you have to pay even to self park unless you get your ticket validated at one of their restaurants.

Back then there was a fabulous Italian restaurant on site called Tuscany. Now it's closed.

Sure there were always a few days a year like Labor Day weekend that were unavailable at the JW for timeshare guests. But it was not weeks and weeks like it is now.

As recently as last summer the Canyon Villas shuttle bus over to Desert Ridge Marketplace didn't even make a stop at the JW anymore. I suspect it's because the JW stopped paying for their portion of the cost to provide the service.

A couple of years ago the resort changed hands, being sold for a record price right before COVID hit. There's too many other great dining and spa options nearby for me to bother much with it now.
 
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PhoenixCanuck said:
There's too many other great dining and spa options nearby for me to bother much with it now
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Similar experience. We always we go in March and no issues with pool. But after first few years, and as kids and us got older, it really wasn't worth the hassle.
Sill my favorite resort and find I spend more time there and going to other fun stuff and caring less and less about the JW.
I remember last visit over there and it was a zoo with kids just running through lobby and running through fountains etc...
Reminded me of the waiting area for Spirit Airlines :)
 
I hope Roy's still has their happy hour! We always enjoyed the excellent appetizers and beverages on the patio.
 
This sounds like it's similar to what has happened at Westin Mission Hills in the Palm Springs area. There is a Westin Hotel and a Westin vacation ownership property co-located (it's a Vistana timeshare.) For many years the hotel and the timeshare property were both owned by Westin (Starwood) and there was free use of the entire resort, including hotel pools and restaurants, by timeshare guests. Then after Vistana split off from Starwood and then Starwood was bought by Marriott, the hotel was sold to a new investment group. Now, even though both are still branded as Westin properties, the timeshare guests have no access to anything at the hotel, and they've even put up physical barriers and signs prohibiting timeshare guests from even walking onto the hotel property.

I think we are going to see more situations like this as the co-located hotels and timeshare resorts increasingly get sold off to new owners who want to maximize revenue and don't see any reason to allow access to their neighbors. A decade ago, buying into a timeshare resort that was sort of a combined property with a hotel of the same brand was a good thing, and access to the entire property was sold as a benefit. I think now it's a liability and there are going to be a lot of unhappy owners.

It's a little less clear though at a resort like Canyon Villas where the HOA and its members are actually paying for access to the hotel facilities. I guess it depends on what's actually in the agreement between the hotel and the HOA.
 
Superchief said:
I hope Roy's still has their happy hour! We always enjoyed the excellent appetizers and beverages on the patio.
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Yes they do! Both in the afternoon and again during the last hour or so before close. And you're right, it's a winner. The one best reason we still go visit the property.
 
We were at Canyon Villas from Feb 12 to 19th. I noticed that they have installed a card reader and a gate separating the check-in/lobby from the units. I was told that people going to the JW have been parking in the Canyon Villas lot. This is a consequence of the JW charging for parking. The gates had not yet been activated when we were there. I'm wondering what the procedure is for people visiting a guest? Park in one of 5 spaces, get a pass.... ?
 
BJRSanDiego said:
We were at Canyon Villas from Feb 12 to 19th. I noticed that they have installed a card reader and a gate separating the check-in/lobby from the units. I was told that people going to the JW have been parking in the Canyon Villas lot. This is a consequence of the JW charging for parking. The gates had not yet been activated when we were there. I'm wondering what the procedure is for people visiting a guest? Park in one of 5 spaces, get a pass.... ?
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Usually for owner day use privileges, they provide you with a standard room key that will work to open gates to parking and/or pools.
 
These deteriorating relationships between MVC villa resorts and adjacent "anchor/Signature" hotels can be traced to the demise of the Recreation Agreement between the Desert Springs Villas One Owners at Marriott's Desert Springs Villas One and the then owner of the JW Marriott Desert Springs Resort and Hotel, the Host Corporation. In hotel circles, HOST has a reputation of being bottom line, ruthless, "sell your mother at all expense, to make a penny" people. Host began their destruction course in Palm Desert by reducing DSV One owners and guests access to the hotel and spa, from seven days a week, to five, with significant limitations, and the hotel has continued to further reduce the value of the Recreation Agreement, at the same time, reducing the hours of spa, and the days of the week the spa is open, and attributing the spa's reduced operating hours to Covid 19 and staffing shortages.

MY THEORY, LISTEN LOUD AND CLEAR, IS FOR MVC VILLA OWNERS AND GUESTS TO BOYCOTT ALL REVENUE PRODUCING OUTLETS AT THE ADJACENT HOTEL (E.G, GOLF, FOOD AND BEVERAGE, SPA, ETC.) DURING THEIR ENTIRE STAY AT THE MVC/VILLA RESORT. FURTHER, I EMPLORE MVC/VILLA HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS TO NEGOTIATE ATTRACTIVE ARRANGEMENTS WITH AREA BUSINESSES (E.G. GOLF COURSES, RESTAURANTS), AND TO DIRECT MVC/VILLA RESORT OWNERS AND GUESTS TO THOSE NON-ANCHOR HOTEL AREA BUSINESSES, TO SUPPORT A BOYCOTT OF THE ADJACENT THE HOTEL.
 
In some ways, things may be moving the opposite way at Club Son Antem in Majorca.
The co-located hotel used to be managed by MI, but sadly lost this contract and the overall experience has never been quite the same ever since especially as it is a fairly rural resort where on site facilities are important.
However, all being well, MI will soon once again be taking over the hotel management under the AC Hotels brand.
This should ensure a better collaboration and shared options for MVC owners and guests.
 
It appears I should have access on 3/31, since that isn't listed as being unavailable. The only place I spend money at the JW is Roy's, and it is independent and not under JW management. I saw a post in another thread that Desert Springs owners are voting on whether to continue to pay the fees to get access to the JW there. Does anyone know when that would take effect? I may try to stay there next March.

I hope the Palms resorts will continue to have access to the World Center facilities. That is the only reason we've kept our Royal Palms week.
 
Superchief said:
It appears I should have access on 3/31, since that isn't listed as being unavailable. The only place I spend money at the JW is Roy's, and it is independent and not under JW management. I saw a post in another thread that Desert Springs owners are voting on whether to continue to pay the fees to get access to the JW there. Does anyone know when that would take effect? I may try to stay there next March.

I hope the Palms resorts will continue to have access to the World Center facilities. That is the only reason we've kept our Royal Palms week.
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You are correct about the vote, which I believe has now closed. I have not seen results of the vote, nor do I know that the owner base will, before the next HOA minutes/Owner Update are circulated to HOA members. I do not recall when the most current Recreation Agreement is set to expire, between the Villas One HOA and the hotel. Given the diminishing hours/days of the week that the spa has been open, with no reduction in fees/credit back to the DSV One HOA, by the hotel, and given the antagonistic posture of the hotel, my personal sense is that the days of the Recreation Agreement are numbered. I have no data or inside information to support that, it's just my gut sense. To be forthright, as much as we put a high value on the old DSV One/hotel Recreation Agreement, the most recent iterations of that agreement, and the antagonistic and arrogant posture of the hotel's management and owners, I'd be OK with walking away from the Recreation Agreement, and reducing it to a once fond memory.
 
WBP said:
These deteriorating relationships between MVC villa resorts and adjacent "anchor/Signature" hotels can be traced to the demise of the Recreation Agreement between the Desert Springs Villas One Owners at Marriott's Desert Springs Villas One and the then owner of the JW Marriott Desert Springs Resort and Hotel, the Host Corporation. In hotel circles, HOST has a reputation of being bottom line, ruthless, "sell your mother at all expense, to make a penny" people. Host began their destruction course in Palm Desert by reducing DSV One owners and guests access to the hotel and spa, from seven days a week, to five, with significant limitations, and the hotel has continued to further reduce the value of the Recreation Agreement, at the same time, reducing the hours of spa, and the days of the week the spa is open, and attributing the spa's reduced operating hours to Covid 19 and staffing shortages.

MY THEORY, LISTEN LOUD AND CLEAR, IS FOR MVC VILLA OWNERS AND GUESTS TO BOYCOTT ALL REVENUE PRODUCING OUTLETS AT THE ADJACENT HOTEL (E.G, GOLF, FOOD AND BEVERAGE, SPA, ETC.) DURING THEIR ENTIRE STAY AT THE MVC/VILLA RESORT. FURTHER, I EMPLORE MVC/VILLA HOMEOWNER ASSOCIATIONS TO NEGOTIATE ATTRACTIVE ARRANGEMENTS WITH AREA BUSINESSES (E.G. GOLF COURSES, RESTAURANTS), AND TO DIRECT MVC/VILLA RESORT OWNERS AND GUESTS TO THOSE NON-ANCHOR HOTEL AREA BUSINESSES, TO SUPPORT A BOYCOTT OF THE ADJACENT THE HOTEL.
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Interesting as HOST was actually born from Marriott. The company chairman is a member of the Marriott family.
 
dioxide45 said:
Interesting as HOST was actually born from Marriott. The company chairman is a member of the Marriott family.
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You may recall that HOST was previously known as Host Marriott. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, but, in my experience, the Host people are sharks, in particular their Asset Managers.
 
If they are not willing to look at some form of compensation or re looking at the fees we are paying as owners at CV then perhaps we should stop using their dining facilities.
 
I've owned at DSV2 for over 20 years, meaning paying for no JW agreement, and never understood why DSV1 people even cared about the agreement with the JW. I go over there for anything I want, no big deal. I can still get a massage at the SPA if I wish, play mini golf, shop, eat. I don't have day use otherwise I suppose, don't care. I don't go to DSV to hang out at the JW. I sure wouldn't pay the JW for minor benefit. Just my opinion. Maybe they have a "better pool", would never use it, too far and a hassle when I can just walk to my DSV pool. Will be very curious to see the results of that vote. If they cut benefits, then why pay, I agree.
 
I wonder if you could pay to use the tennis and pickleball courts if they dropped this? I do like the beautiful hotel pool there also.
 
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