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Just when I thought we couldn't get stupider - actively making kids ignorant apparently is a ticktok trend

Lakeshore

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Respect.
There are many ways to educate kids.
Thanks, Cornell…it’s so often unacknowledged.
And you are so correct, there are MANY ways to educate, and thus, there are those who will not take for granted this freedom and do their very best, and there are others that will neglect the educational needs of their children, no matter the form. Let’s not mock just one…let’s try to help ALL to get the best possible education for their children, and support and love them as we are made to, to help them use their talents and succeed in life and make this world a better place.
My thanks is seeing my kid‘s using their talents for the good of all. May they always do that. 🙏🏻
So thank you.
 

Cornell

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Thanks, Cornell…it’s so often unacknowledged.
And you are so correct, there are MANY ways to educate, and thus, there are those who will not take for granted this freedom and do their very best, and there are others that will neglect the educational needs of their children, no matter the form. Let’s not mock just one…let’s try to help ALL to get the best possible education for their children, and support and love them as we are made to, to help them use their talents and succeed in life and make this world a better place.
My thanks is seeing my kid‘s using their talents for the good of all. May they always do that. 🙏🏻
So thank you.
I became interested in Radical Unschooling so I joined the Facebook group to learn about it and to see what issues / challenges these parents have. As other have mentioned there are some parents who are clearly lazy and I would go as far as using the word neglect. However, I "get" the spirit of the movement. There are some parents in the group who seem to have made it work for their kids.

There are lots of kids where traditional schools just don't work for them. Those kids ultimately are going to struggle and hate learning. I find that sad.

One great thing about homeschooling is you can bang out the academic part of your kids learning in a short period of time each day. That allows for the rest of the day to be used for learning through experiences, museums, sports, play etc. Or if your kid is older, time for a paying job.

I homeschooled my own daughter for one year - her last year of high school. I'm the last person to have ever thought Id homeschool. But circumstances led us to that place. Wound up working out pretty well. It wasn't all sunshine & roses b/c she was pretty isolated that year. But she got her HS diploma and is thriving in college.

I wish more parents had the ability to educate their kids in a fashion that is best suited for their child.
 

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** In my previous comments about the Radical Unschooling FB group, certain things are shocking to me. I referenced children that are up all night while parents sleep. I question the value in that. There are also posts where it's apparent that parents are really lazy. Essentially kids play video games ALL DAY LONG. Some of the parents seem to have a naive, wishful attitude that their kids will learn what they need just by living life. Not sure I buy into all of that.

Again - there are some parents who do seem to be making it work for their families. I see posts where kids get to a certain age and they recognize "I NEED to learn. I'm ready to learn". They are operating under a different timetable than our traditional school systems. And there are parents who really are managing to educate their kids through daily living.
 

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Exactly…to all what you have said in post #28. I never would have thought I would homeschool 15+ years ago, but when we realized the lack of education our children were getting, a whole new world opened up, for which we all are grateful.
Kudos to you…not easy to homeschool the last year of high school. But you show it can be done, and your daughter is THRIVING in college. That is wonderful! Excellent job! May her success continue!

We are blessed to be in a country where we can educate our children in many ways. My heart goes out to the children that are left behind, no matter the form….sadly there are those like you mention in post #29. Good unschooling takes even MORE work for the parents if they are truly committed to their child being lead to the richest education possible for their needs. And yes, sadly, these parents do exist….you see it in clips from the video. But I do believe compared to the millions of students in the US in traditional schools, these are a small number. And I‘m sure one can find clips of those who have been neglected institutional schools….just look at the news. But no child deserves an inadequate education, regardless the style or institution.
 
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rickandcindy23

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Our neighbor homeschools her four kids, one is graduated from high school, two are getting ready to graduate next year. It's been fun to watch the kids grow up. They have "gym" every afternoon, no matter the weather, they are out playing basketball, soccer, whatever the mood strikes. They are brilliant kids and hard workers. When they see Rick out raking leaves, they show up in the yard to help.
 

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Our neighbor homeschools her four kids, one is graduated from high school, two are getting ready to graduate next year. It's been fun to watch the kids grow up. They have "gym" every afternoon, no matter the weather, they are out playing basketball, soccer, whatever the mood strikes. They are brilliant kids and hard workers. When they see Rick out raking leaves, they show up in the yard to help.
That is beautiful! 🥰
 

klpca

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School was a refuge for me - for my entire childhood through high school. Home was totally chaotic. School was fairly predictable. If homeschooling had been an option my mom would have been the first to sign up because she was always looking for any way to be unconventional. I am so thankful that I was able to have a respite from my home life.
 
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rickandcindy23

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davidvel

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School was a refuge for me - for my entire childhood through high school. Home was totally chaotic. School was fairly predictable. If homeschooling had been an option my mom would have been the first to sign up becasue she was always looking for any way to be unconventional. I am so thankful that I was able to have a respite from my home life.
Yes. Sadly, too many kids need to get out of the grip of overbearing do-gooder parents that have nothing better to do than control their kids, and try to relive their lives through them. Other perspectives are a blessing for these kids.
 

jp10558

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Okay, just watched five minutes of the video, and wonder why this was posted…it’s very sad. Obviously, it was made with a huge slant on many levels. Can’t believe it’s still up. To the original poster...why did you post this? And to the moderators, why is it allowed? It’s so degrading To those who really are working hard to best educate their children...and there are many ways. And there are many ways our children are failed in education…not just by what is presented in this video.
Influencers neglecting their kids and modern trends are important to be aware of. I'd never heard of unschooling, and TBH, I'm pretty suspicious of something that seems to be about not educating people's kids (there's no plan, apparently waiting on the kids to magically become interested in stuff they could not possibly know exists). This is to me obviously different than homeschooling, where you're still intending to teach your kids.

I'm actually also pretty suspicious of homeschooling just because I tend to think education is a skilled profession, and while there are some exceptions that prove the rule, the vast majority of the time I'd like an expert to do things that are important, complicated and difficult. It's also a full time job, and most people I know have both parents working full time, so when exactly are they going to teach their kids? Weeknights and weekends only, around everything else they need to do during that time? Sounds like unschooling with more rationalizations to me.

I'll be one of the first to admit there are issues with the school systems - but I think there are good things too. Things that are really easy to miss with untrained people trying to go it alone no matter how many good intentions they have. Most of the fixes I've seen for things like socialization, sports, learning trees, and more advanced subjects are re-creating schools with less resources and more limited exposure to different groups of people.

I'd suggest putting some effort into improving the public schools if it was me - let's make things better for everyone and share the load in terms of cost.

As to being degrading - I disagree - it's calling out someone who's posting this as a way to do things that is horrible IMO. If you don't want to be judged, don't be an influencer? And why would moderators block discussing an interesting public video? Instead of calling for blocking or removal from Youtube, why not explain what you see that we're missing from the video? Explain why you support "teaching" being 'wait for a kid to randomly ask a question, but not when the parent is "busy making a video", and why going to the store and saying to a kid "pick the cheapest one" when you haven't apparently taught them how to read'. Etc.
 

Lakeshore

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Influencers neglecting their kids and modern trends are important to be aware of. I'd never heard of unschooling, and TBH, I'm pretty suspicious of something that seems to be about not educating people's kids (there's no plan, apparently waiting on the kids to magically become interested in stuff they could not possibly know exists). This is to me obviously different than homeschooling, where you're still intending to teach your kids.

I'm actually also pretty suspicious of homeschooling just because I tend to think education is a skilled profession, and while there are some exceptions that prove the rule, the vast majority of the time I'd like an expert to do things that are important, complicated and difficult. It's also a full time job, and most people I know have both parents working full time, so when exactly are they going to teach their kids? Weeknights and weekends only, around everything else they need to do during that time? Sounds like unschooling with more rationalizations to me.

I'll be one of the first to admit there are issues with the school systems - but I think there are good things too. Things that are really easy to miss with untrained people trying to go it alone no matter how many good intentions they have. Most of the fixes I've seen for things like socialization, sports, learning trees, and more advanced subjects are re-creating schools with less resources and more limited exposure to different groups of people.

I'd suggest putting some effort into improving the public schools if it was me - let's make things better for everyone and share the load in terms of cost.

As to being degrading - I disagree - it's calling out someone who's posting this as a way to do things that is horrible IMO. If you don't want to be judged, don't be an influencer? And why would moderators block discussing an interesting public video? Instead of calling for blocking or removal from Youtube, why not explain what you see that we're missing from the video? Explain why you support "teaching" being 'wait for a kid to randomly ask a question, but not when the parent is "busy making a video", and why going to the store and saying to a kid "pick the cheapest one" when you haven't apparently taught them how to read'. Etc.
“Explain why you support "teaching" being 'wait for a kid to randomly ask a question, but not when the parent is "busy making a video", and why going to the store and saying to a kid "pick the cheapest one" when you haven't apparently taught them how to read'. Etc .”

I do NOT support what is in the tic tock video for sure, just as I don’t support poor education in any method. But to be fair, there are those who do a good job unschooling. It is degrading to use one video as a true representation of a particular method as a whole. Here is an article that I hope all those unfamiliar with unschooling will read…it’s a study done on how unschoolers turned out….good to know, as all students deserve a good education and foundation for life after high school age.
And I don’t have a lot of time, but I quick found a video made by an actual unschooled student who obviously does it differently than what was represented in the tic tock video first posted….now, you can’t judge a whole group by just one video but as you will see, there are requirements for each state which he articulates well for a young man still in school. As you can see, there are many ways to learn in life. And rest assured, there are regulations.

I don’t think it would be right to judge all private schools or public schools or even homeschooled or unschooled forms of education based off of a tic tock video. It would not be a true representation of each particular means of education as a whole. And you said you had not heard of unschooling….hopefully now you will be able to see that if done properly, with parents who care and guide their students without the constraints of a set curriculum(which for some, can be rigid and leave kids behind, which we see in the school systems, sadly), but with the freedom to learn as much as possible from extensive reading, research, travel, outside or online classes on different subjects to develop further into it, seeking out professionals in the field of observation in order to learn from firsthand experience, etc, etc, that it can indeed be a good education with positive outcomes.

I remember watching a television series on genius kids preparing for the national spelling bee or something to that extent. One of the boys was unschooled, and he was so smart and kind. But he had parents that cared. As you will read in the article, there are unschoolers that go on to Ivy’s, huge universities, smaller liberal arts colleges, etc, etc. and some continue on to higher degrees. And there are those who do not go on to further their education, just as there are in any form of schooling. And there are good teachers and there are bad teachers….parents, too. As I said before, there is no perfect school system, because no teacher or student is perfect, so there are flaws in all. The point is that ALL children deserve a great education with parents and teachers who care. And it is important not to judge all by just a few.😊

And different countries educate differently, too…not all countries begin formal schooling as early as institutional schools in the US. For example, here is something interesting….
“Finland, a country the size of Minnesota, beats the U.S. in math, reading and science, even though Finnish children don't start school until age 7. Despite the late start, the vast majority arrive with solid reading and math skills.“
 
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jp10558

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“Explain why you support "teaching" being 'wait for a kid to randomly ask a question, but not when the parent is "busy making a video", and why going to the store and saying to a kid "pick the cheapest one" when you haven't apparently taught them how to read'. Etc .”

I do NOT support what this woman is doing at all. But there are those who do a great job unschooling. Here is an article that I hope all those unfamiliar with unschooling will read.

I don’t think it would be right to judge all private schools or public schools or even homeschooled or unschooled forms of education based off of one tic tock video. It would not be a true representation of each particular means of education as a whole. And you said you had not heard of unschooling….hopefully now you will be able to see that if done properly, with parents who care and guide their students without the constraints of a set curriculum(which for some, can be rigid and leave kids behind, which we see in the school systems, sadly), but with the freedom to learn as much as possible from extensive reading, research, travel, outside or online classes on different subjects to develop further into it, seeking out professionals in the field of observation in order to learn from firsthand experience, etc, etc, that it can indeed be a very rich education with good outcomes afterwards.

Obviously, this is not the way the people in the tic tock video do it. But I do I remember watching a television series on genius kids preparing for the national spelling bee or something to that extent. One of the boys was unschooled, and he was sooooo brilliant and kind. But he had parents that cared. As you will read in the article, there are unschoolers that go on to Ivy’s, huge universities, smaller liberal arts colleges, etc, etc. and some continue on to higher degrees. And there are those who do not go on to further their education, just as there are in any form of schooling. And there are good teachers and there are bad teachers….parents, too. As I said before, there is no perfect school system, because no teacher or student is perfect, so there are flaws in all. The point is that ALL children deserve a great education with parents and teachers who care. And it is important not to judge all by just a few.😊
I'm going to point out that the survey is basically an anecdote and sure, like I said, exceptions prove the rule. I fully believe there are some number of people who will be motivated at a young age, very mature and willing to actually learn things they're not interested in so they can get the building blocks to what they are interested in, and able to actually figure out their own curriculum. I just think this is a very small part of the population. Everyone I knew in school who was that motivated and self directed and interested in learning also did extremely well in normal public school, and were exposed to things society thinks is important that they wouldn't have otherwise been interested in.

Now, it's hard to say how important me being exposed to dodgeball, Ethan Frome and spanish as a language was to my development. I can say I would have avoided them if I could have. I doubt I ever would have read a short story or a poem, or done any calculus, and I probably would never have read anything about the US civil war. I never would have used a bandsaw or poured aluminum into a mold either.

Were these wastes of time that made learning less fun for me, or were they building blocks to help me figure out what I wasn't interested in, and give me some important basic knowledge about power tools and language concepts that was less direct but still important to learn? I just recall that most of my friends when they wanted to learn stuff, it was D&D, Video Games, and maybe a sport like Soccer. And the issue isn't that it's necessarily bad to learn more about how to play a game, just that it barely will help you in the real world with a job or life skills in many cases.

I'm not judging all, I'm saying that in my judgement unless there's other information, I think the default should be public school for parents. There's lots of things that some people can do well that I still wouldn't recommend as a general suggestion to everyone.
 

davidvel

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“Explain why you support "teaching" being 'wait for a kid to randomly ask a question, but not when the parent is "busy making a video", and why going to the store and saying to a kid "pick the cheapest one" when you haven't apparently taught them how to read'. Etc .”

I do NOT support what this woman is doing at all. But there are those who do a great job unschooling. Here is an article that I hope all those unfamiliar with unschooling will read.

I don’t think it would be right to judge all private schools or public schools or even homeschooled or unschooled forms of education based off of one tic tock video. It would not be a true representation of each particular means of education as a whole. And you said you had not heard of unschooling….hopefully now you will be able to see that if done properly, with parents who care and guide their students without the constraints of a set curriculum(which for some, can be rigid and leave kids behind, which we see in the school systems, sadly), but with the freedom to learn as much as possible from extensive reading, research, travel, outside or online classes on different subjects to develop further into it, seeking out professionals in the field of observation in order to learn from firsthand experience, etc, etc, that it can indeed be a very rich education with good outcomes afterwards.

Obviously, this is not the way the people in the tic tock video do it. But I do I remember watching a television series on genius kids preparing for the national spelling bee or something to that extent. One of the boys was unschooled, and he was sooooo brilliant and kind. But he had parents that cared. As you will read in the article, there are unschoolers that go on to Ivy’s, huge universities, smaller liberal arts colleges, etc, etc. and some continue on to higher degrees. And there are those who do not go on to further their education, just as there are in any form of schooling. And there are good teachers and there are bad teachers….parents, too. As I said before, there is no perfect school system, because no teacher or student is perfect, so there are flaws in all. The point is that ALL children deserve a great education with parents and teachers who care. And it is important not to judge all by just a few.😊
Sorry, but that article is worse than the tic tok. Gray received 75 self-reported surveys for his "study." What a joke.

Some takeaways from his "study":

- Almost 2/3s of the respondents said they "could think of [] disadvantages" to homeschooling.

- ONLY 1/2 of the respondents ever enrolled in a bachelor's program. Despite this abysmal record (or lack thereof) "most felt at a distinct advantage due to their high self-motivation and capacity for self-direction" (he doesn't tell us how many graduated.) No mention of post-graduate degrees, other than none of the respondents have an MBA.

- Only 63 responded to a follow up survey about work/careers. No details given about their actual situation, but more vague anecdotes and personal feelings.

-In summary, the article states that the most successful children are those who have parents that taught (schooled?) them things. How ironic.
 

jp10558

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Sorry, but that article is worse than the tic tok. Gray received 75 self-reported surveys for his "study." What a joke.

Some takeaways from his "study":

- Almost 2/3s of the respondents said they "could think of [] disadvantages" to homeschooling.

- ONLY 1/2 of the respondents ever enrolled in a bachelor's program. Despite this abysmal record (or lack thereof) "most felt at a distinct advantage due to their high self-motivation and capacity for self-direction" (he doesn't tell us how many graduated.) No mention of post-graduate degrees, other than none of the respondents have an MBA.

- Only 63 responded to a follow up survey about work/careers. No details given about their actual situation, but more vague anecdotes and personal feelings.

-In summary, the article states that the most successful children are those who have parents that taught (schooled?) them things. How ironic.
I wasn't going to get in the weeds like this but you're right - it's also pre replication crisis. I don't know if they linked to the actual study, but it also likely was hovering around p=0.05 (if it had any statistics done at all), and I am pretty sure not pre-registered, meaning it's basically vibes of a pretty small group of people that we don't currently even know the selection criteria - i.e. probably not randomly distributed or a representative sample.
 

davidvel

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I wasn't going to get in the weeds like this but you're right - it's also pre replication crisis. I don't know if they linked to the actual study, but it also likely was hovering around p=0.05 (if it had any statistics done at all), and I am pretty sure not pre-registered, meaning it's basically vibes of a pretty small group of people that we don't currently even know the selection criteria - i.e. probably not randomly distributed or a representative sample.
Calling it silly would be a compliment. The author "asked readers of his blog to disseminate a survey to their networks, and received 75 responses from adults ranging in age from 18 to 49."

In a prior 'study' "two hundred and thirty two self-identified unschooling families" were found via his blog, and returned questionnaires in which they also self-evaluated their unschooling experience. Not surprisingly from someone who is in favor of not schooling children, the so called study is merely a hodgepodge of anecdotes and self-fulfilling opinions.
 

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Calling it silly would be a compliment. The author "asked readers of his blog to disseminate a survey to their networks, and received 75 responses from adults ranging in age from 18 to 49."

In a prior 'study' "two hundred and thirty two self-identified unschooling families" were found via his blog, and returned questionnaires in which they also self-evaluated their unschooling experience. Not surprisingly from someone who is in favor of not schooling children, the so called study is merely a hodgepodge of anecdotes and self-fulfilling opinions.
Gosh, that's worse than I thought. Yea, I would not call that a study. It's not even a valid survey. It's basically like a vote on this forum - i.e. how do people who like not schooling their kids and their kids feel (some of them who want to promote the practice). Yea, anecdotes at best.
 

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We were in a department store, Denver Dry, my daughter was about 10, and she heard two women talking about what they would pay with the 40% discount being offered on the rack of dresses. She was astounded at the not-so-educated guesses at the bottomline price. She walked around, looked at the price tag of the dress and told them exactly what the dress would cost. The women were amazed. She explained that the $60 dress would be $36 and told them how she did the math. It was hilarious. She was ten!

Very normal. But truthfully I struggle to explain the math. I can do it but that takes more effort then just doing it in my head. It just is what it is. Good thing they were not at Bealls on black Friday week where it was 30% off then 15% off for seniors 10% off if opening credit card and if you spend $50 get another $10 off or something like that a few years ago. All were able to stack.
 
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