Is timeshare a scam?

[jp10558]

College is somewhat of a scam, depending on the job you get after you get out.

I don't know - this feels a lot like getting a TS for the wrong reason, or with the wrong understanding. College isn't a trade school, and for that reason I think a lot of people go who shouldn't, expecting to get something out of it they won't. The reason College is so "valuable" IMO isn't about what college is doing, it's because companies use "having a degree" - often "having ANY degree" as a simple filter. IMO if a job requirement is a vague 2 or 4 year (or even masters I guess) degree, but doesn't specify a few types of degrees or at least a field, then the job doesn't need college, they just are lazy about hiring.

If you get a job that others have that did not get a degree, you have now wasted a bunch of money for no reason.

Well, the other thing college does is potentially let you network. My cousin got his first job because he was friends with the kid of the company owner in college.

A school that teaches the subject matter is more valued than a school that goes off on a tangent with indoctrinating students.

I kinda think teaching specific subjects are far less useful than teaching how to think and how to research. What I mean is logic, critical thinking, critical analysis, some statistics ideas, and how to learn things. Most of what I learned in college is obsolete but understanding how to learn keeps me employed. As does understanding how to evaluate vendor claims, take a look at the current statuses of industry, my employer and more to more often than not bet "right" on the way to go to meet a need.

I think more and more fields change quicker and quicker so learn once for a bachelors and work your career is less realistic.

Timeshares bought from a developer sure feel like a scam.

I'll argue they're right on the line. To me, scams are you get nothing or almost nothing for the money. I'm not sure if simply overpaying, even by a lot, is a scam. Like, by some measures, new cars are a scam.

Data mining is truly a thing, my BIL did that, and AI will help those Data Miners to find us in all of the databases. Laws should protect people from these scams, but it's such a small number of people who fall for them, they are like a speck of dust in a dirtpile.

I do wish we didn't have so many laws that in reality have such a high threshold to be enforced that until you're really BLATENT, you just can keep breaking them.

 

[WaikikiFirst]

scams are you get nothing or almost nothing for the money. I'm not sure if simply overpaying, even by a lot, is a scam. Like, by some measures, new cars are a scam.

TSs? It is REALLY simple. If you can (and have) rented such places for < ACO, then don't buy. This isn't hard to understand nor is it hard to calculate.
ACO = Annual Cost of Ownership = MFs + PPAN
MFs = $ annual maintenance fee
PPAN = $ Purchase Price Amortized over N yrs
There are more accurate ways to calculate it, but that is a simple, accurate enough way.
You can change straight amortization to instead multiplying the PP by an assumed ROI. (then you can debate ROI instead of debating "N" yrs ) Use 8% ROI? You get N = 12.5. Use 5%? N = 20
This is true whether you want to discuss developer or resale buy. It is just that PP falls by 90% or more in the resale, so the answer changes. Does it change by enough to say "Buy a Bunch of Resales"? Well, do the math as it pertains to your life.

Man, I think most people don't understand the definition of "scam". Just because YOU made a bad decision, that doesn't mean there was a SCAM involved.
"Scam"? These people not only pay a ridiculous PP to "join the club", they BORROW MONEY at a ridiculous % rate to do so. "Soon parted" =/= "scam"

 

[kanerf]

Nope, not a scam. Just a variety of systems you have to learn how to use and manage. I am in my timeshares about 48 weeks out of the year.

 

[magmue]

If you get a job that others have that did not get a degree, you have now wasted a bunch of money for no reason.

Unless you use your time in college to soak up skills like critical thinking and communication, as well as develop your creative abilities. You may have to start off in a job that does not require a degree, but you have a better chance of being noticed and doing well in the long run.

 

[jp10558]

I am in my timeshares about 48 weeks out of the year.

So, this kinda brings me around to the other direction - do you still have a "home" you go to for the 4 weeks? Are you going back once a quarter to take care of "stuff"? If not, are you hanging out at family for holiday weeks or something? Also, do you tend to stay mostly in one area or travel around the country?

 

[kanerf]

So, this kinda brings me around to the other direction - do you still have a "home" you go to for the 4 weeks? Are you going back once a quarter to take care of "stuff"? If not, are you hanging out at family for holiday weeks or something? Also, do you tend to stay mostly in one area or travel around the country?

I do own a home that I visit on occasion. Most stays are almost exclusively in the DC area where I work.

 

[iftravel]

I do own a home that I visit on occasion. Most stay are almost exclusively in the DC area where I work.

You have a home called timeshare and a timeshare called home.

 

[winger]

Thanks in part to my college education, I learned how to do research and now get excellent value out of my resale timeshare.

Don't need a costly college degree to do research, just read TUG and know basic algebra

 

[pammex]

Don't need a costly college degree to do research, just read TUG and know basic algebra

I have enjoyed my timeshares and continue to. They worked for us being workaholics, made us travel.
Of course we did some things wrong, even got scammed by price. Nowadays the prices are much higher so I likely would not buy as I did decades ago. I also having more knowledge would consider rising MF costs etc.

Everything has some scams involved sadly.

 

[ChrisandBeth]

When you buy a timeshare you are acquiring the obligation to pay maintenance fees until you can get rid of it. If you know that going in timeshares can still be a good value provided you buy resale and at a property or points based system that you can give away without cost. I own both Worldmark and Vacation Internationale and maintenance fee costs still provide an attractive alternative to hotels. Add the kitchen and subsequent restaurant savings and they are a bargain. Currently both can be sold for a nominal amount or given away with multiple people wanting them. While my initial (minimal) cost to acquire them may not be recoverable on resale, amortized over the number of years I have owned them I'm still way ahead and have traveled more than I could afford to otherwise.

 

[SandyO]

If you think college (education) is a costly scam, try ignorance. Education is a tool. If you don't know how to use the tool, it can be costly.

Timeshare can save travelers money, but timeshare is an unwelcome cost for non-travelers. That's why they are marketed to people who are already at a resort. That's also the reason for the cooling off period when new buyers (if they're smart) can read all about what they were sold, and stop the sale at no cost or penalty. Again, it comes down to using that education tool to read all available information you are presented with.

The scam part is the difficulty in parting with the TS when it becomes a burden. When I get to be Emperor, I'll proclaim an open marketplace not unlike a used car market for people to sell and buy their vacation ownerships.

Jim

Absolutely right, Jim. We've enjoyed our timeshare in Sante Fe for years as well as trading it many, many times. Now that we're aging out and no one in the family wants it, we've entered that group of people who don't get the value out of it as often. Not a scam but more of an illusion about how it will be a wonderful family asset, a nice inheritance for a child/grandchild etc. etc. That's bogus in most cases. I will add that we've rented it several times just go recoup the mainenance fees and that has been successful.

 

[Larry M]

The scam part is the difficulty in parting with the TS when it becomes a burden. When I get to be Emperor, I'll proclaim an open marketplace not unlike a used car market for people to sell and buy their vacation ownerships.

Great idea! You could call it "TUG."

 

[Larry M]

One of the largest problems with owning a timeshare, imo. I've asked people at resorts what their exit plan is. Most have never heard of an exit plan.

Bill

Exit plan? Easy!

I was uninformed and accepted my first timeshare as a gift from my aging in-laws. I used it for a few years, until they reneged on their exchange program. When I complained, Wyndham (was Fairfield) referred me to the local association which agreed to take it back if I covered $150 in attorney fees. TUG advised me to quickly accept that deal, which I did.

Then being a little smarter, thanks to TUG, I bought my second timeshare after reading in the agreement that the agreement expired on the first Sunday in 2026 (my exit plan). I'd still be doing it, except that an overwhelming fraction of the owners (including me) voted to move that "sunset date" to the first Sunday in 2020, my adjusted exit plan.

I knew something was fishy when I got repeated messages from Wyndham about how beneficial it would be for me to swap my deeded ownership for some flakey "points" program that they could change at any time. I would never do that.

 

[Steve A]

Grad school was great for me. I got a Masters and a Mrs.

 

[WorldT]

Timesharing is not a scam. I am in year two now of my resale purchases and I can easily stay at a spacious unit for a week paying less than 50 percent of the cost of a studio in a regular hotel. I am also the accomodations agent for the family and in-laws and now friends.
The sales team for developers on the other hand is a different story. It isn't just about the much higher cost compared to resale. In every presentation I have attended, I have been told lies. That is a scam in my opinion.
If they just sold you the unit and explained correctly how it works, then it would not be a scam simply because you paid more for it. In life, the same product have different cost at different sellers.

 

[SusanRN]

College is somewhat of a scam, depending on the job you get after you get out.

After college (and law school) I became an attorney, and then, at 54 in retirement, an RN.
However, I have always said that the most useful courses I ever took in college were History of Art 101 and 102 -- because they helped me understand and appreciate what I saw in my travels.

 

[tha]

Scam? Timeshares are complex products. The timeshare company has no fiduciary responsibility to the timeshare owners. Their financial responsibility is to their investors, not the consumers. Their behavior is constrained by the market. Marriott, with 700,000 "owners" and 120+ resorts has significant monopoly power especially in the markets where they are present (Kaanapali, Palm Desert, etc).

It is in Marriott's financial interest to drive the resale value to zero or less so they can replenish their inventory at minimum cost. What are they doing to accomplish this? Three things:
1) Threatening to ban name changes within 30 days of arrival. That makes renting more difficult and makes resales less attractive. It can also be devastating to a lot of owners with medical or family emergencies but....wait for it....Marriott couldn't care less about your problems.
2) Threatening to cancel, apparently without notice and up to the moment of check-in, reservations they determine in their exclusive judgement 'without any right to arbitration, to be "commercial". That makes renting more difficult and makes resales less attractive. It may not happen but the threat adds to the risk profile of the product.
3) They are blocking nights and imposing undisclosed minimum stay requirements during "events", i.e. when rooms are most valuable. That makes renting more difficult and makes resales less attractive. These are known internally as MS2, MS3, and so forth.

Timeshare owners are not Marriott's customers, they are the product. The customer is insurance companies, hedge funds, family offices, and sovereign wealth funds, i.e. Wall Street. And as their revenue from sales drops (wonder why?) they are becoming more dependent on rental income. Just review the last couple quarters.

Scam? You need to know that the timeshare company has no responsibility to your financial well-being and may well be hostile to your interests. All the more reason to buy resale and limit your financial exposure. Just like colleges have no responsibility for you obtaining any ROI on your educational "investment".

 

[ScoopKona]

After college (and law school) I became an attorney, and then, at 54 in retirement, an RN.
However, I have always said that the most useful courses I ever took in college were History of Art 101 and 102 -- because they helped me understand and appreciate what I saw in my travels.

At my high school, there was a nice boy who was the only child of the "big plumber in the area." (Fleet of new work vans, all painted with the plumber's logo. A few dozen employees. The kind of business that means "set for life.")

Everyone assumed he would graduate high school; go to work for his dad and then take over the business. Imagine his surprise when dad sat him down and told him he wouldn't pass the business down unless he graduated from a good university with a four-year degree. Any degree. Doesn't matter. Dad knew what a lot of owners know -- having that degree means that the graduate is capable of tackling a long, complicated project with very little outside help.

He and I attended the same university. He studied art history. And took over the family plumbing business. And now he goes on vacation four times a year to places that have world-class museums.

There's no such thing as a worthless degree. Sadly, there are a LOT of people who don't know what to do with a degree. And even more people who insist university is worthless unless it comes with a career and a paycheck at the end. I wouldn't want to live in a society where there were only STEM graduates.

The wealthiest person I know well has a doctorate in philosophy. He's a real estate investor in Las Vegas and has a net worth approaching nine figures. And he achieved this while working as a sushi cook at a resort. Just kept buying houses and renting them to his co-workers. He had 60 houses last time I talked to him, and probably has 100 of them now. He gave me some initial coaching, and is a big reason I'm typing this from a farm.

 

[pauljeffrey10]

Like any other purchase, timeshare is right for some, and terrible for others. Just selecting transportation, or considering a 2nd home, there are lots of options - some right for some, and others right for others. Buy a car, take a bus, use Uber? It depends on your needs, your available capital, your frequency of use and your schedule. Timeshare is no diffferent.
For us, timeshare made complete sense because it was at a resort we knew we would come back to for many years, year after year, with our young family. It made financial sense, we could afford it, and our kids loved the place.
We expanded slowly over the years so now, in retirement, we can be away in many great places with family and friends for about 8-10 weeks a year in the US, the Caribbean and Europe (with RCI). And, all we need to do is pay the maintenance fees, make reservations and show up.
I owned 2nd home for a while and believe me it is way easier and cheaper to have a timeshare than to manage and pay for that 2nd home.

 

[Panina]

Timesharing should not be perceived as a scam. Later this year, I will be visiting a timeshare that would typically cost me $3,600 if I were to book directly with the resort. I have owned over 20 timeshares and was able to find new homes for everyone one of them when I no longer needed them. I purchased my first one from the developer but that was on me for not doing my due diligence. Still over the years I saved more than it cost.

An informed consumer is less likely to fall victim to scams, whether they are purchasing a car, investing in a home, or buying a timeshare. By conducting thorough research and reading all documents before making such significant purchases, one can avoid getting scammed. Why do we spend time seeking out the best grocery prices, the most competitive offers from car dealerships, and homes that hold their value, yet many do not spend the time necessary with the same diligence for timeshare purchases. Those who have found Tug. Those contracts all say in some form the written contract contains the complete and final terms. If only one would read it they would realize what they were actually getting.

 

[iftravel]

Long Island Iced Tea is a scam too. Pro sports too. The list goes on, using those 4 criteria

No one gets in debt for Long Island Iced Tea but 43 million in US are in student debt. Not sure how many are in timeshare debt but I guess if one cannot afford it just don’t buy - no matter how good it sounds.

It’s a scam to lend money to timeshare buyers, not even on credit card should be cash only by law. lol.

 

[clifftabor]

One of the largest problems with owning a timeshare, imo. I've asked people at resorts what their exit plan is. Most have never heard of an exit plan.

Bill

Oh Bill, they've heard of it but don't want to discuss it because many TS don't have exit plans. They don't want to tell potential customers that their company doesn't have one.

 

[iftravel]

Oh Bill, they've heard of it but don't want to discuss it because many TS don't have exit plans. They don't want to tell potential customers that their company doesn't have one.

They have an exit plan for you that you can sell your timeshare for even higher than what you pay - which is a scam.

 

[easyrider]

No one gets in debt for Long Island Iced Tea but 43 million in US are in student debt. Not sure how many are in timeshare debt but I guess if one cannot afford it just don’t buy - no matter how good it sounds.

It’s a scam to lend money to timeshare buyers, not even on credit card should be cash only by law. lol.

If only a person could get a resale college education.

Bill

 

[jeffox]

If only a person could get a resale college education.

Bill

You can, but it's stripped of all its benefits, like buying resale HGV points.