Is this the first DC points resale listing on ebay?

[SueDonJ]

In a consumer driven business -- "buyer beware" IS the norm?????????

In consumer driven businesses, companies that LOVE THEIR CUSTOMERS win.

Every time.

So tell me one thing you can buy that doesn't come with clearly stated or implied guarantees or warranties that are subject to legal interpretation, and don't require a consumer to file for redress if the product fails or doesn't perform as advertised. (Product recalls such as child car seats that pose a hazard don't count, because the reason the companies do such recalls is due to prior legislation that requires such.)

 

[taffy19]

So, are we assuming that the entire 1500 points has a small underlying interest at one resort only, locking the resale points usage into that one resort, and not an even smaller underlying interest of all the DC resorts, thereby granting availability to all resorts?

If so, why are we assuming this?

I hope that you are right but I would like to have this answer before signing the dotted line if we were buying points.

It is important because of the clause that Pat posted earlier in this thread. It is there for a reason.

 

[SueDonJ]

Nobody but Marriott can answer these questions.

They choose not to. Their choice. Actions have consequences.

What will you accuse me of next - buying 1500 DC points and listing them on ebay just so I could have the opportunity to blast Marriott on this thread?

BWAHAHahahahaha!! Don't know if you intended to make me laugh but that's what happened, because you're much too smart to purchase DC Points until and unless all these questions are answered, and probably not even then.

I really don't disagree all that much with what you're saying, you know. I wish these answers were a matter of public record by this time, too. But I just can't jump on the Marriott-bashing bandwagon until I have personal knowledge of them deliberately evading the questions. Since I haven't asked anybody at Marriott who could be relied upon for the answers, I can't say if the answers are available or not. The only TUGger I know of who has asked ALL the questions of the right people is BocaBoy, and if I had the same experience as he did then I'd be pretty disillusioned with Marriott right now, too.

This thread, though - I only jumped in to ask why Emmy would expect Marriott to make a statement about usage of an external DC Points purchase. It's not an expectation that I've ever seen applied to external Weeks resales, that's all.

 

[RBERR1]

Club dues? What assurance do you have that they will let you join the DClub? SPINCO's SEC filing strongly suggests they will not.

Will they allow you to rescind the purchase if you cannot join DC and enjoy all the benefits the original purchaser enjoyed?

My gut here is that you still are a member of the Dclub but you are limited to properties in the trust based on what was said in the SPINCO SEC filing. (Remember DClub is both the trust part and the enrolled weeks part.)

Same way resale in the old system were still able to book weeks but cannot get MR points.

 

[taffy19]

Susan, I am not bashing Marriott or the ad on eBay but because the clause is there, I would want to know what resort or resorts are tied in to the points we would be buying from the Marriott direct. We didn't buy points so it doesn't affect us in any way. It was just a general queston to ask the Marriott in the first place and again from a resale seller too.

The smallest package is 250 points so would you own at one or six resorts or somewhere in between? Where can you stay if you own six resorts of 250 points each?

Also, will Marriott use the right of refusal on the best point package of 250 points when you put it up for sale or will they buy them all that you bought originally from the Marriott? Just another general question.

If you can stay at all the resorts in the Trust, then this important clause would not have been included in the documents. JMHO.

 

[taffy19]

My gut here is that you still are a member of the Dclub but you are limited to properties in the trust based on what was said in the SPINCO SEC filing. (Remember DClub is both the trust part and the enrolled weeks part.)

Same way resale in the old system were still able to book weeks but cannot get MR points.

This sounds like a good answer to me but you need to verify.

 

[windje2000]

Susan, I am not bashing Marriott or the ad on eBay but because the clause is there, I would want to know what resort or resorts are tied in to the points we would be buying from the Marriott direct. We didn't buy points so it doesn't affect us in any way. It was just a general queston to ask the Marriott in the first place and again from a resale seller too.

The smallest package is 250 points so would you own at one or six resorts or somewhere in between? Where can you stay if you own six resorts of 250 points each?

Also, will Marriott use the right of refusal on the best point package of 250 points when you put it up for sale or will they buy them all that you bought originally from the Marriott? Just another general question.

If you can stay at all the resorts in the Trust, then this important clause would not have been included in the documents. JMHO.

The way to view the trust is like a mutual fund. Instead of stocks, the fund has weeks.

Your ownership interest is an undivided fractional interest in the weeks. It is not tied to any resort, just as your mutual fund interest is not tied to any particular stock in the fund.

 

[windje2000]

BWAHAHahahahaha!! Don't know if you intended to make me laugh but that's what happened, because you're much too smart to purchase DC Points until and unless all these questions are answered, and probably not even then.

I really don't disagree all that much with what you're saying, you know. I wish these answers were a matter of public record by this time, too. But I just can't jump on the Marriott-bashing bandwagon until I have personal knowledge of them deliberately evading the questions. Since I haven't asked anybody at Marriott who could be relied upon for the answers, I can't say if the answers are available or not. The only TUGger I know of who has asked ALL the questions of the right people is BocaBoy, and if I had the same experience as he did then I'd be pretty disillusioned with Marriott right now, too.

This thread, though - I only jumped in to ask why Emmy would expect Marriott to make a statement about usage of an external DC Points purchase. It's not an expectation that I've ever seen applied to external Weeks resales, that's all.

I've been to a half dozen sessions regarding DClub. I've asked the questions. The difference is that I knew the answers to most all the questions I posed. (Cross Examination 101 - Never ever ask a question you don't know the answer to.)

In each case, I knew more about the program than the presenter.

One shouldn't have to literally cross examine a Marriott rep to get answers to basic how does the program work questions.

 

[taffy19]

Windje, so the clause means that additional Marriott inventory will be excluded unless you buy additional points from the Marriott direct? Do you agree with that?

 

[windje2000]

Windje, so the clause means that additional Marriott inventory will be excluded unless you buy additional points from the Marriott direct? Do you agree with that?

My interpretation of what the clause means.

I read the clause to mean a resale points owner can only reserve what he/she has an ownership interest in. That is the properties in the trust. The number of properties in the Trust is a moving target as properties are added over time.

I believe the documents limit the resale points buyer to reserving occupancy less than 60 days out.

I read the clause to mean a resale points owner cannot participate in the Exchange Company.

To analogize to a weeks owner, it would be very similar to a weeks owner who could

1. only reserve his or her week from what was left at 60 days out and

2. was prohibited from participating in II or RCI.

The difference is that the weeks owner owns at one resort but the points owner has an interest in a 'mutual fund' of weeks at a number of resorts.

Hope that helps.

 

[taffy19]

My interpretation of what the clause means.

I read the clause to mean a resale points owner can only reserve what he/she has an ownership interest in. That is the properties in the trust. The number of properties in the Trust is a moving target as properties are added over time.

I believe the documents limit the resale points buyer to reserving occupancy less than 60 days out.

I read the clause to mean a resale points owner cannot participate in the Exchange Company.

To analogize to a weeks owner, it would be very similar to a weeks owner who could

1. only reserve his or her week from what was left at 60 days out and

2. was prohibited from participating in II or RCI.

The difference is that the weeks owner owns at one resort but the points owner has an interest in a 'mutual fund' of weeks at a number of resorts.

Hope that helps.

Yes, it does. We are a fixed week/unit owner at one single Marriott resort so the old fashioned way and we still like it that way.

Thanks a lot.

 

[dioxide45]

The problem here is that the seller likely can't answer any of these questions, because they probably can't get an answer from Marriott.

As far as we know, Marriott hasn't made any real policy known about how to transfer a resale point sale on the resale market. There was a broker (transfer agent) on here earlier this year that had an owner that needed out of their trust points. They contact Owner Services and Owner Modifications to try to get answers as to the transfer fees, ROFR, and ROFR fees. Marriott couldn't or wouldn't provide the answers. Either they didn't want to or hadn't thought about the need for those policies yet.

It is Marriott's responsibility to make those policies/procedures available to people when they need to sell. We don't know what the seller listing this EBay sale did, did they call Marriott? We don't know. It doesn't seem so. But we also haven't seen anyone post anything about how Marriott will facilitate trust point sale transfers for owners that need/want to sell.

Marriott knows that people will want/need to sell their trust points. They wrote a ROFR provision in to the trust. They must make a process available t those who ask how to transfer trust points. While it is the responsibility of the seller to provide this information to potential buyers, it is also the responsibility of Marriott to make that information available to the seller. Which up to this point, doesn't appear to have happened. At least not that we have seen.

Marriott has dropped the ball. They should have has a process in place since 6/30/2010 on how to transfer trust ownership. They knew the day would come that someone wanted/needed to sell.

 

[dioxide45]

Here is the new listing.

http://cgi.ebay.com/260821374578

 

[dioxide45]

With a $150 transfer fee, does this include the ROFR waiver fee? Or is the combined transfer fee $$0.10 per point?

 

[tlwmkw]

Funny, I predicted it would be about a year for these points to start appearing on the re-sale market and was pooh-poohed. Now here they are.

Yes, Marriott should have had clear mechanisms in place for re-sale and transfer of these points as soon as they started to sell them. It is just an example of poor planning on their part. I would be afraid to bid on them because no one knows if/how you will be able to use them. What a mess. Most people interested in re-sale have probably seen TUG and for that reason I think there will be limited (if any) interest in this auction other than folks here looking at it and not bidding.

I feel sorry for the seller. If they even sell it will be pennies on the dollar. Does Marriott think that will make them look good? News will get out about this and then they will look even more foolish as they try to sell for top dollar.

tlwmkw

 

[RBERR1]

My interpretation of what the clause means.

I read the clause to mean a resale points owner can only reserve what he/she has an ownership interest in. That is the properties in the trust. The number of properties in the Trust is a moving target as properties are added over time.

I believe the documents limit the resale points buyer to reserving occupancy less than 60 days out.

I read the clause to mean a resale points owner cannot participate in the Exchange Company.

To analogize to a weeks owner, it would be very similar to a weeks owner who could

1. only reserve his or her week from what was left at 60 days out and

2. was prohibited from participating in II or RCI.

The difference is that the weeks owner owns at one resort but the points owner has an interest in a 'mutual fund' of weeks at a number of resorts.

Hope that helps.

I asked a follow-up question on the new listing to see what limits on reservation or limits are on these points are resale. Answer should be interesting.

 

[windje2000]

I asked a follow-up question on the new listing to see what limits on reservation or limits are on these points are resale. Answer should be interesting.

Look forward to seeing the response. I assume you asked the seller and not Marriott.

Looks like there's two bids so far. Might be an interesting gamble for a points owner (or a weeks owner for that matter) to purchase these . . . cheap . . . . before Marriott gets its act together . . . . .and see what ownership rights they can obtain/negotiate.

Might even be interesting to try to rent them out. I wonder how 'smart' their systems are, since they were allowing post 6/20 resale weeks to enroll.

 

[GregT]

Look forward to seeing the response. I assume you asked the seller and not Marriott.

Looks like there's two bids so far. Might be an interesting gamble for a points owner (or a weeks owner for that matter) to purchase these . . . cheap . . . . before Marriott gets its act together . . . . .and see what ownership rights they can obtain/negotiate.

Might even be interesting to try to rent them out. I wonder how 'smart' their systems are, since they were allowing post 6/20 resale weeks to enroll.

I like the way you think..........................................

 

[RBERR1]

Look forward to seeing the response. I assume you asked the seller and not Marriott.

Looks like there's two bids so far. Might be an interesting gamble for a points owner (or a weeks owner for that matter) to purchase these . . . cheap . . . . before Marriott gets its act together . . . . .and see what ownership rights they can obtain/negotiate.

Might even be interesting to try to rent them out. I wonder how 'smart' their systems are, since they were allowing post 6/20 resale weeks to enroll.

I asked the seller. I may call Marriott if I get a chance.

 

[RBERR1]

I asked a follow-up question on the new listing to see what limits on reservation or limits are on these points are resale. Answer should be interesting.

This is the response I got..

Hi,

As far as Marriott would tell us, there should be no restrictions on the points.

Thank you,
Justin

Very very interesting.

 

[windje2000]

This is the response I got..

Hi,

As far as Marriott would tell us, there should be no restrictions on the points.

Thank you,
Justin

Very very interesting.

How far was that?

Is the seller willing to guarantee that bundle of rights and allow you to rescind if that turns out not to be the case?

With all due respect, this is a non response response. Moreover, it appears to conflict with what is written in the governing documents.

 

[m61376]

Look forward to seeing the response. I assume you asked the seller and not Marriott.

Looks like there's two bids so far. Might be an interesting gamble for a points owner (or a weeks owner for that matter) to purchase these . . . cheap . . . . before Marriott gets its act together . . . . .and see what ownership rights they can obtain/negotiate.

Might even be interesting to try to rent them out. I wonder how 'smart' their systems are, since they were allowing post 6/20 resale weeks to enroll.

The cost may be a steal, but if their usage is restricted to 60 days out, then those MF's won't seem like such a bargain. Tough call...

 

[chunkygal]

This will be interesting. We own DVC as well as Marriott and these "points" have always been sellable. We have owned at Hilton Head for 15 years and enjoyed 15 years of great vacations and we could still turn around and sell the rest of the 40 year contract for $14000 or more.

 

[bogey21]

My first Marriott was a pre-construction Week at Sabal Palms. When I decided to sell I used the Marriott Resale Department who (in essence) guaranteed me that they would sell my Week for me at a profit. All I had to do was wait until my Week came to the top of the list of similar Weeks listed for sale.

While I waited I reserved a Week and rented it using the Marriott Rental Program. I think I did this twice. Marriott eventually sold my Week for me at a profit and in the interim I more than covered my Maintaince Fees (even after commissions) by renting my Week using the Marriott Rental Program.

The whole process took me somewhere around two or three years, but it eventually worked.

My how times have changed!!

George

 

[GregT]

All,

It looks like I'm going to be outbid -- someone else has come in that pushed my bid up to $510. I'm still high bidder, but I don't expect that to last for long.

Some thoughts on buying resale points:

1) I don't think its a functional problem that these things can't access the Exchange Inventory. I have (rented) legacy points for that, and it's really no different from what Trust Point users are reporting. I would just have to book Day 1 and Day 2 with my resale Trust Points, and then Day 3-7 with legacy points
2) At my high bid price ($1,000) I think it is inconceivable that Marriott would not ROFR the points. I think it would be disastrous for them to let it go at that price.
3) If I did get them for $1,000, I believe that I would be able to pay an additional $2,000 to get Initiated, so my basis for 1,500 Trust Points is $3,000.
4) At that point, I would have points with Base Plus access, but not Special Benefits
5) At this point in time, I don't really value Special Benefits. The only thing that would bum me out is if Ritz Carlton ultimately came into DClub, but came in as a Special Benefit. And if it does, I'm totally blocked anyway because I have no intention of buying 10,000 Trust Points.
6) The obvious risk of course is that they won't let me Initiate my cheapo Trust Points. In which case I'm limited to 60-day ressies. If that occurs, I am probably limited to the Properties that are deep in the Trust (Ko Olina, MOC, Timber Lodge, NCV). I could tolerate that, but it would be inconvenient and require creativity to get my desired reservations -- but I think this is a modest risk of occuring and do not expect it would happen.

So.....it's an interesting experiment. I never thought I'd be winning bidder at $203.50, and I don't expect to get it for $1,000. But we will see!

I'll keep TUGgers apprised of the process if I actually end up with the things.

Best,

Greg