Is this a fair price?

[cps27]

Looking to buy a resale at the Sheraton Mountain Vista (Avon, CO). The asking price is $25,000 for the following:

"The 2 Bdrm Sheraton listing for Week 51 & 52. Annual dues are $1,422.70 per week. The unit is not specific but rather a floating unit but will always be a 2 Bdrm. The set up is (2) One Bdrms suites with lock-offs so you have 2 living room areas with queen sleeper sofas, fireplace, king in each condo and 2 kitchenettes."

Just trying to figure out if $25,000 is ball-park of what something like this should go for (didn't find any data points in a search on Tug2).

Thank you for your help!!!

 

[Ty1on]

Looking to buy a resale at the Sheraton Mountain Vista (Avon, CO). The asking price is $25,000 for the following:

"The 2 Bdrm Sheraton listing for Week 51 & 52. Annual dues are $1,422.70 per week. The unit is not specific but rather a floating unit but will always be a 2 Bdrm. The set up is (2) One Bdrms suites with lock-offs so you have 2 living room areas with queen sleeper sofas, fireplace, king in each condo and 2 kitchenettes."

Just trying to figure out if $25,000 is ball-park of what something like this should go for (didn't find any data points in a search on Tug2).

Thank you for your help!!!

They are going for $1 on Ebay, but not Weeks 51 & 52. Surely those weeks have some value, but I can't fathom $25K of value.

 

[okwiater]

They are going for $1 on Ebay, but not Weeks 51 & 52. Surely those weeks have some value, but I can't fathom $25K of value.

Christmas and New Years are some of the most popular ski weeks. Platinum Plus SMV weeks typically go for somewhere in the $8-10k range, and have no ability to reserve those weeks. So I would not be surprised to see a premium over that price point. However, $25k might still be a bit steep. I would've ball parked $15-20k max but because there are so few of those deeds available it's tough to establish a "correct" price. At the end of the day the correct price is the one agreed to between an informed buyer and a willing seller.

 

[sjsharkie]

They are going for $1 on Ebay, but not Weeks 51 & 52. Surely those weeks have some value, but I can't fathom $25K of value.

To be clear, the $1 SMV weeks are for non-ski season on eBay. You won't find a ski week (platinum plus floating season which excludes week 51 and 52) on eBay or anywhere else for $1 -- certainly not for a 2BR unit.

-ryan

 

[sjsharkie]

Christmas and New Years are some of the most popular ski weeks. Platinum Plus SMV weeks typically go for somewhere in the $8-10k range, and have no ability to reserve those weeks. So I would not be surprised to see a premium over that price point. However, $25k might still be a bit steep. I would've ball parked $15-20k max but because there are so few of those deeds available it's tough to establish a "correct" price. At the end of the day the correct price is the one agreed to between an informed buyer and a willing seller.

When I read the post, this appears to be for Weeks 51 AND 52, right?

For two total weeks, I don't think $25K is out of the question. The cons are that this is not a ski-in/ski-out property, but the mfs are fairly affordable. I'd gander $10K for Week 51 and $15K for Week 52 is not an unreasonable estimate IMHO.

Really, a Week 51 and 52 combo will not come up very often so if the OP wants this, they really should jump on it. Trying to purchase this even separately from different buyers might prove challenging.

-ryan

 

[cps27]

Yes, week 51 & 52.

 

[Passepartout]

It might be what the going rate is, but to pay $25,000 up front for the privilege of paying over $2800 (that WILL go up) EVERY year to be compelled to spend EVERY Christmas and New Year's week away from home seems pretty steep to me.

Just out of curiosity, how much is a straight-up luxury 2 bedroom rental there at this time of year?

Hope you REALLY enjoy skiing.

Jim

 

[sjsharkie]

It might be what the going rate is, but to pay $25,000 up front for the privilege of paying over $2800 (that WILL go up) EVERY year to be compelled to spend EVERY Christmas and New Year's week away from home seems pretty steep to me.

Just out of curiosity, how much is a straight-up luxury 2 bedroom rental there at this time of year?

Hope you REALLY enjoy skiing.

Jim

On Redweek, there was a 12/25-1/1 listed for $4,000 and a 12/27-1/3 listed for $4,600. They both show as rented but who knows how much they actually rented for. At Westin Riverfront down the street (but much nicer and has the express gondola to the mountain nearby with higher mfs and higher resale prices) you are looking at listings of $5,000 - $6,000 for Christmas/NY week.

If you want to go skiing, you will need to pay a premium for holiday ski rentals in the Beaver Creek area.

The OP seems interested in holiday skiing annually and if you love skiing but need to go during the holidays (i.e. tied to school schedules), I totally get it and you can likely work out the economics. If they can't go one year, they can always rent it out.

IMHO, $25K is not out of the question.

-ryan

 

[Jason245]

On Redweek, there was a 12/25-1/1 listed for $4,000 and a 12/27-1/3 listed for $4,600. They both show as rented but who knows how much they actually rented for. At Westin Riverfront down the street (but much nicer and has the express gondola to the mountain nearby with higher mfs and higher resale prices) you are looking at listings of $5,000 - $6,000 for Christmas/NY week.

If you want to go skiing, you will need to pay a premium for holiday ski rentals in the Beaver Creek area.

The OP seems interested in holiday skiing annually and if you love skiing but need to go during the holidays (i.e. tied to school schedules), I totally get it and you can likely work out the economics. If they can't go one year, they can always rent it out.

IMHO, $25K is not out of the question.

-ryan

Based on a rental rate of 4k per week (8k per year ).. op would become cash flow positive on this deal in about 5 years or so... if op kept or rented weeks or sold the interval at thar point I think they would end up fine... that being said, I would not use those weeks for trading unless I would be guaranteed something worth that kind of money on the exchange side.

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[LisaRex]

If it's 2 weeks back-to-back and you don't have to change villas....and the OPer will actually use it most years, then it doesn't seem like a bad deal.

I'd compare the rates to rental rates for other 2 bdrms over the holidays and determine a break-even scenario. If it's 10 years or less, and I really like my family would use it every year, then I'd go for it.

 

[Ty1on]

To be clear, the $1 SMV weeks are for non-ski season on eBay. You won't find a ski week (platinum plus floating season which excludes week 51 and 52) on eBay or anywhere else for $1 -- certainly not for a 2BR unit.

-ryan

Some included weeks 40-47. And yes, 1 BR units.

 

[sjsharkie]

Based on a rental rate of 4k per week (8k per year ).. op would become cash flow positive on this deal in about 5 years or so... if op kept or rented weeks or sold the interval at thar point I think they would end up fine... that being said, I would not use those weeks for trading unless I would be guaranteed something worth that kind of money on the exchange side.

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Agree with the math, but on my previous post (before someone else points this out), I am showing the LISTED rental price. Often the negotiated price can be lower and Christmas week typically fetches less than NY week.

So we are making some assumptions here based on listing price. Then there are escalating mfs to think about and predicting how future rental prices may fare. A lot to weigh here, but to your point, I can see scenarios where the math will work out.

 

[Marathoner]

My view is that 25K is a decent price for weeks 51 & 52 near a major ski resort.

I am very skeptical that a holiday week could rent for 4K at this property given that it is not ski-in/out. Personally, I would not want to handle a 15 minute shuttle ride to Vail every morning and afternoon with my kids.

Ultimately, you as the buyer can best answer the question on whether this is a fair price. If you and your family will be happy using these 2 weeks every year, then the price is good. On the other hand, if you intend to rent it a fair amount, I think more research is needed on what the real rental price is. My guess is that each week will rent for a fair amount under 3K for Christmas and NY.

I also agree with LisaRex - if you really like skiing at Vail each year and the cost to rent both weeks for 10 years is greater than the purchase price plus maintenance fees, then I would recommend purchasing as well.

It has been my experience that contacting the broker who is handling the sale can be useful if the broker is good. If the broker is experienced, they can give you some comps for past timeshare holiday purchases and also give you anecdotal rental history info from owners of holiday weeks at that property.

 

[cps27]

It might be what the going rate is, but to pay $25,000 up front for the privilege of paying over $2800 (that WILL go up) EVERY year to be compelled to spend EVERY Christmas and New Year's week away from home seems pretty steep to me.

Just out of curiosity, how much is a straight-up luxury 2 bedroom rental there at this time of year?

Hope you REALLY enjoy skiing.

Jim

Thanks for the color everyone.

Yes, we go to Vail/Beaver creek nearly every year for the past 10 years and love to ski, so spending those two weeks there is ideal.

This year we paid $4,000 for a 3 bdr. private house (VRBO) in West Vail. And that was for one week.

 

[Marathoner]

This year we paid $4,000 for a 3 bdr. private house (VRBO) in West Vail. And that was for one week.

You can't really compare rental price for a private 3BR house to a 2BR timeshare week as they operate at different price points for a number of reasons.

My recommendation is to rent weeks 51 & 52 next year at this resort to see how you like it and to see what you can negotiate in terms of rental price.

For the week 52 ski timeshare that I purchased, I rented for 3 years at Christmas time before I eventually purchased. This gave me first hand information on both the rental price and the activities & convenience of the property during the holidays.

 

[cps27]

You can't really compare rental price for a private 3BR house to a 2BR timeshare week as they operate at different price points for a number of reasons.

My recommendation is to rent weeks 51 & 52 next year at this resort to see how you like it and to see what you can negotiate in terms of rental price.

For the week 52 ski timeshare that I purchased, I rented for 3 years at Christmas time before I eventually purchased. This gave me first hand information on both the rental price and the activities & convenience of the property during the holidays.

Thanks.

I used to live in Avon a number of years ago and have also stayed at the property, though just not week 52. Ten years ago we rented through EBAY for one week in early March (high season but not Christmas/New Years) for $1,000 for the week. So, I figure 10 years later for X-Mas week it's at least $2,000 if not more.

 

[DavidnRobin]

The SPEND for renting is relevant no matter what the source, and should be a major part of the research (but not only consideration). Including, asking for others opinions to form your own - like here on TUG. smart approach

There are extrinsic factors as well based on the subjective 'not one size fits all'.

If you have identified a resort and weeks that you want to go every year (15 year horizon), AND you have the disposable income, and want to be assured of a consistent and relatively hassle free vacation - that is of value and sometimes can be worth the SPEND.
IMO YMMV

 

[Marathoner]

Thanks.

I used to live in Avon a number of years ago and have also stayed at the property, though just not week 52. Ten years ago we rented through EBAY for one week in early March (high season but not Christmas/New Years) for $1,000 for the week. So, I figure 10 years later for X-Mas week it's at least $2,000 if not more.

I agree that Xmas week can likely rent for $2K or maybe more. Let's say that you can rent each week for 2.5K. That is $1k above the maintenance fee. So, $1k x 2weeks = $2k. At a purchase price of 25K, it will take 13 years to come out ahead over renting both weeks.

Many things can happen over 13 years. We could lose our jobs; we could enter another recession; our children may not want to ski any more, etc.

There is also the other end of possibilities - you may be able to sell the 2 holiday weeks for more than you purchased it and that you make a profit when you sell.

Bottom line, is that I like the 10 year breakeven calculation over renting because we have to make some assumptions and start somewhere.

Since you are informed about the area and you are ok with being off mountain, why not focus on negotiating a better price and see what you can get it reduced to. I've seen owners of a higher priced week actually be willing to reduce their price more than lower priced week owners. So, it can be useful to make multiple inquiries to see which owner is most willing to negotiate.

 

[okwiater]

My view is that if you can consistently rent for 2x maintenance fees, and have the free capital, there is really no reason not to do this. If you use it, great, and if you don't use it, it provides a far better ROI than many other investments and can be part of a diversified portfolio of assets. YMMV.

 

[cps27]

The SPEND for renting is relevant no matter what the source, and should be a major part of the research (but not only consideration). Including, asking for others opinions to form your own - like here on TUG. smart approach

There are extrinsic factors as well based on the subjective 'not one size fits all'.

If you have identified a resort and weeks that you want to go every year (15 year horizon), AND you have the disposable income, and want to be assured of a consistent and relatively hassle free vacation - that is of value and sometimes can be worth the SPEND.
IMO YMMV

Yes, the consistency and hassle-free aspects are very important. You never quite know what you're getting with VRBO/Homeaway. The most recent place we rented was somewhat dissapointing (at least to my wife it was).

 

[SMHarman]

On Redweek, there was a 12/25-1/1 listed for $4,000 and a 12/27-1/3 listed for $4,600. They both show as rented but who knows how much they actually rented for. At Westin Riverfront down the street (but much nicer and has the express gondola to the mountain nearby with higher mfs and higher resale prices) you are looking at listings of $5,000 - $6,000 for Christmas/NY week.

If you want to go skiing, you will need to pay a premium for holiday ski rentals in the Beaver Creek area.

The OP seems interested in holiday skiing annually and if you love skiing but need to go during the holidays (i.e. tied to school schedules), I totally get it and you can likely work out the economics. If they can't go one year, they can always rent it out.

IMHO, $25K is not out of the question.

-ryan

Looking at the cost as 3x rent roll it is not unreasonable for purchasing two weeks. So 12500 a week which is talked about elsewhere in this thread.

 

[artringwald]

If you have identified a resort and weeks that you want to go every year (15 year horizon), AND you have the disposable income, and want to be assured of a consistent and relatively hassle free vacation - that is of value and sometimes can be worth the SPEND.
IMO YMMV

I agree that it depends on what the value is to you. You may try negotiating to get a lower price, but is it worth $25K to you? I'm guessing it is or else you won't be asking about it.

 

[DavidnRobin]

Not worth $25K to me - but I do own OFD at WKORV...
always best to buy for lowest cost of course

The capability to rent (HomeResort) for profit is important.
Overall, our actual annual 2016 cost for 14 days in a 2Bd TH WSJ (June), 7 days in a 1Bd OFD WKORV, and 7 days in a 1Bd/studio WPORV (it is an EOY... so dividing 14 days by 2) results in 28 days per year for ~$200/nite (with the other 21 nites rented)

of course - that doesn't account for purchase cost, but at least they have some resale value compared to original purchase cost
WKV>WKORV>WSJ>WPORV

 

[bogey21]

If you are dealing with Weeks 51 and 52 guaranteed; if you have physically visited the Resort and believe it suits your needs; and if you plan to use yourself for a minimum of 5 years, write the check.

I faced exactly this situation about 15 years ago with a Crown Suite at Monarch on Hilton Head. It too was $25k but for one Week. It was perfect for our family and I knew we would use it for a number of years. I sold it 6 or 7 years later for $41k minus 20% commission to Marriott.

George

 

[Robert D]

I own a lot of floating winter weeks at Sheraton Mountain Vista and Lakeside Terrace next door. The SMV 2BR floating winter weeks sell in the $7,500 range and up and I've never seen a week 52 for sale. I think the week 52 is worth a lot more than week 51 but $25K for both of them doesn't sound unreasonable if they are in fact fixed week 51/52. My guess is that Starwood sold these for at least $50K each. Lakeside Terrace sells for less than SMV and the fees are lower but I've never seen a LT week 52 for sale. A SMV 2BR prime ski week will rent for $2,500+ and a week 52 will be a lot more than that.