Is there anyone that does not have a Credit Card? Do you just use a Debit Card?

[VacationForever]

Middlemen are so common in USA that people are blind to shortcomings. People go into debt with credit card companies when buying groceries, use HMOs to access health care, use delivery apps for food, ticket apps for sports & entertainment ... it's all so inefficient and steals money from the direct transaction partners. More is explained in previous posts if you need.

I have read every of your posts in this thread and they said NOTHING as to why food delivery services "steal" money from businesses.

 

[goaliedave]

I’m assuming you have more than just anecdotal statements that actually prove these assertions? If so, please provide such proof.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You don't understand how middlemen are inefficient compared to no middlemen?

 

[goaliedave]

I have read every of your posts in this thread and they said NOTHING as to why food delivery services "steal" money from businesses.

It's their middlemen role. Who do you imagine pays for them?

I helped you find my pervious posts about middlemen ... yesterday at 140pm, 111pm, 1037pm.

 

[HitchHiker71]

" i do not feel that i am borrowing money" ... as they borrow money each credit card transaction. Debt is so prevalent amongst boomers that they've forgotten what it is.

Borrowing money at zero interest and paying the exact same amount 30-60 days later isn’t debt - it’s float - you have the use of those funds while the bank is floating the costs of your own capital for that period of time. If anything - it’s the credit card bank that is paying you in the form of cash back payouts or points.

The only conditions under which this isn’t the case are when the vendor purchase provides a cash discount. This typically isn’t offered these days - but we do see it occasionally for low margin goods such as gasoline (cash vs credit prices).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Blues]

The household paper checkbook is also practically extinct. When do you all write paper checks? Thanks to online banking and online bill pay. I never order new checkbooks any more!

I just looked at my accounts. Call me a dinosaur - I've written 60 paper checks in the past year,or about 5 per month.

Who? Our cleaning lady, who comes every other week. The landscaper we occasionally use to help maintain the yard. Our chiropractor (she keeps her own expenses low by not taking insurance, and prefers checks). To government agencies for taxes, license renewal, etc. I'm sure there are others.

But the checking account is largely used for online payments, including paying the CCs. Yes, I mostly use CCs for purchases - never debit cards, which I only use for getting cash, including overseas (zero foreign transaction fees, and they reimburse for ATM fees).

In addition to refusing to use debit cards for anything other than ATMs, I also refuse to use phone-based apps for payments -- Venmo and their ilk. I also consider those to be an express lane into your bank account. Presents an occasional problem with friends, but those can be resolved with cash.

 

[goaliedave]

That’s a strange way to think of it. You are also in debt for your utility bills. You are using water, sewer and electricity and not paying for it as you go.

Of course, yes. People have learned to live being in debt.

 

[goaliedave]

Borrowing money at zero interest and paying the exact same amount 30-60 days later isn’t debt - it’s float - you have the use of those funds while the bank is floating the costs of your own capital for that period of time. If anything - it’s the credit card bank that is paying you in the form of cash back payouts or points.

The only conditions under which this isn’t the case are when the vendor purchase provides a cash discount. This typically isn’t offered these days - but we do see it occasionally for low margin goods such as gasoline (cash vs credit prices).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

" float" a cool word to make you feel better about debt, using the credit card companies money to buy things. People have forgotten what being in debt means.

 

[HitchHiker71]

You don't understand how middlemen are inefficient compared to no middlemen?

The mobile apps that you are referring to are simply a different method of advertising cost. People use these apps for exactly the reason that you state, because the apps make it easier for the consumer to access the product. Saying that consumers are lazy is simply your opinion. I reject your assertion unless you can provide actual proof.

I’ve seen studies that show how apps like DoorDash, Grubhub, OpenTable, etc., on average actually increase revenues and/or foot traffic for most restaurants that participate. Sure some restaurants don’t like the cost of doing business - of participating in the apps - but if revenues are increased then it’s not really a bad thing. Consumer preferences and consumption models change over time. Change is the only constant in this life. Those who refuse to adapt likely won’t survive long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[goaliedave]

Once you order anything at a restaurant! You are also in debt until paid in full!
Same thing when you go to the dentist or doctor, hospital. You will receive an invoice for payment. Debt!

Exactly!

 

[goaliedave]

The mobile apps that you are referring to are simply a different method of advertising cost. People use these apps for exactly the reason that you state, because the apps make it easier for the consumer to access the product. Saying that consumers are lazy is simply your opinion. I reject your assertion unless you can provide actual proof.

I’ve seen studies that show how apps like DoorDash, Grubhub, OpenTable, etc., on average actually increase revenues and/or foot traffic for most restaurants that participate. Sure some restaurants don’t like the cost of doing business - of participating in the apps - but if revenues are increased then it’s not really a bad thing. Consumer preferences and consumption models change over time. Change is the only constant in this life. Those who refuse to adapt likely won’t survive long term.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you understand the difference between increasing revenues and increasing profits?

 

[goaliedave]

What societal benefit? No place I shop offers a cash discount. And, frankly, taking cash costs money in accounting and labor. Those registers need to reconciled at the end of the night. And considering just how bad most people are at math, that's a lot of time wasted counting down cash.

If we get rid of cash entirely, we can save a great deal of labor costs from the associated counting and dealing with actual paper currency. Doesn't matter what we use as money as long as we all agree that it works. (The biggest con in human history.)

I would be 100% good with a system which used my thumbprint and/or retinal scan to pay. It's all about velocity of transactions and security of transactions. That would send both into overdrive.

Societal benefits ive outlined above.

 

[Janann]

" float" a cool word to make you feel better about debt, using the credit card companies money to buy things. People have forgotten what being in debt means.

If a credit card statement is paid in full once a month without accruing any expense (no annual fee, interest, past due fees etc.), then why is it bad? I see it as a simple way to manage my payments.

 

[HitchHiker71]

You don't understand how middlemen are inefficient compared to no middlemen?

There are always middlemen. The cost of advertising is not insignificant for example. The apps are simply changing how restaurants advertise to their customers and reach their customers - oftentimes backed by formal reputation modeling that is inbuilt into the app itself which consumers place value upon. Many restaurants that utilize these mobile apps expand their customer base - which again is never a bad thing long term. They reach customers that they may never have otherwise reached - and those customers provide reviews to attract other net new customers online that again expand their customer base.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HitchHiker71]

Do you understand the difference between increasing revenues and increasing profits?

Considering the pricing embedded in many of these mobile apps reflects added convenience cost - many restaurants actually make more money on these third party orders than direct orders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ScoopKona]

Societal benefits ive outlined above.

I think you're very far from presenting a cogent debate position.

You also haven't offered what the alternative should be: Back to the gold standard? barter?

Here's what the new system offers: efficiency. I don't like shopping. It's a necessary evil. I like grocery shopping when on vacation. But that's the only kind of shopping I truly enjoy. Otherwise, I want to get in, get my stuff, and get out just as fast and quietly as possible. If I can walk into a store, pick up my widget, self check out in 30 seconds and leave the store without interacting with another person, that's a win.

So I prefer the way commerce works today compared to carbon paper, personal checks, and clerks who can't make change.

 

[goaliedave]

I think you're very far from presenting a cogent debate position.

You also haven't offered what the alternative should be: Back to the gold standard? barter?

Here's what the new system offers: efficiency. I don't like shopping. It's a necessary evil. I like grocery shopping when on vacation. But that's the only kind of shopping I truly enjoy. Otherwise, I want to get in, get my stuff, and get out just as fast and quietly as possible. If I can walk into a store, pick up my widget, self check out in 30 seconds and leave the store without interacting with another person, that's a win.

So I prefer the way commerce works today compared to carbon paper, personal checks, and clerks who can't make change.

Cash or check or auto withdrawing is the alternative. Or last choice, as for travel booking online requiring a card, debit. Why borrow, just use your own money to avoid middlemen.

 

[goaliedave]

Considering the pricing embedded in many of these mobile apps reflects added convenience cost - many restaurants actually make more money on these third party orders than direct orders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, this is the point i made above. To cover the middlemen profits, some businesses are able to raise prices and therefore customers lose, but most are not able to raise prices so they suffer the loss or go bankrupt.

 

[DrQ]

You don't understand how middlemen are inefficient compared to no middlemen?

Let's see, no middleman:

• Collecting on bad checks
• Employees stealing from the till
• Store robberies
• Robberies during night drops
• Running to the bank to get coins/small bills

Real efficient.

Maybe that's why merchants will pay 3%-4% to accept credit cards.

 

[goaliedave]

If a credit card statement is paid in full once a month without accruing any expense (no annual fee, interest, past due fees etc.), then why is it bad? I see it as a simple way to manage my payments.

Lots of people are like you, they don't want to use their own money to buy things, they'd rather take a loan from the credit card company and have the business pay a 3-5% fee when they use their cc for the purchase.

 

[ScoopKona]

Cash or check or auto withdrawing is the alternative. Or last choice, as for travel booking online requiring a card, debit. Why borrow, just use your own money to avoid middlemen.

Auto-withdrawing? Over my dead body.

No just no but [censored] no. I would rather bring a goat and three chickens with me to settle debts.

 

[Janann]

Lots of people are like you, they don't want to use their own money to buy things, they'd rather take a loan from the credit card company and have the business pay a 3-5% fee when they use their cc for the purchase.

Accepting a credit card is the choice of the business. No business is required to accept them.

 

[goaliedave]

Accepting a credit card is the choice of the business. No business is required to accept them.

I'm with you,, i like higher prices.

 

[DrQ]

I'm with you,, i like higher prices.

I haven't decided whether you are a Dave Ramsey zealot or just enjoy winding everybody up.

 

[ScoopKona]

I haven't decided whether you are a Dave Ramsey zealot or just enjoy winding everybody up.

I'm of the opinion that Ramsey mollycoddles his audience. Before I retired, coworkers constantly asked me, "How do you do it?" (The rental properties, constant travel, that sort of thing.)

So I would patiently explain F.I.R.E.: How it works, why it works, and why nearly anyone can do it. "Get rich slow" is boring. But it works. Out of perhaps 50 people who asked "How do you do it," all but one had a laundry list of excuses for why that simply wouldn't work for them. The lone exception? She asked me in her 20s and retired in her 30s. Whenever she needs money, she flips a house. We're still friends on Facebook. She is absolutely crushing it in the game of life.

 

[billymach4]

I haven't decided whether you are a Dave Ramsey zealot or just enjoy winding everybody up.

You took the words right out of my fingers. The D.R. comment anyway.