Is MVC Downgrading II Exchanges at all Resorts

[Jerrygomi]

To my surprise, I just got a two bedroom ocean view at Westin Nanea in exchange for a one bedroom at Desert Springs 1. Most of my other interval exchanges have had lousy views

 

[jrb916]

Most of my other interval exchanges have had lousy views

We just exchanged 3000 WM credits for Legends Edge over New Years. We received our request of top floor of BlueBell overlooking the gulf . We could see three different firework displays clearly from the lanai and another couple off in the distance which was a bonus. Since we didn’t have a view in our trade, I don’t see it as a downgrade.

 

[iftravel]

We just exchanged 3000 WM credits for Legends Edge over New Years. We received our request of top floor of BlueBell overlooking the gulf . We could see three different firework displays clearly from the lanai and another couple off in the distance which was a bonus. Since we didn’t have a view in our trade, I don’t see it as a downgrade.

Legends Edge seems to be an easy exchange in II too - was thinking about it but got Desert Springs instead. How's the weather there for Christmas - New Year?

 

[dioxide45]

Legends Edge seems to be an easy exchange in II too - was thinking about it but got Desert Springs instead. How's the weather there for Christmas - New Year?

Legends Edge also only has two buildings with no specified views. All views face toward the water.

 

[jrb916]

Legends Edge seems to be an easy exchange in II too - was thinking about it but got Desert Springs instead. How's the weather there for Christmas - New Year?

Much better than weather in Kansas!! 65-70 everyday. The pool/hot tub area was being renovated, so they provided those services @ Spring Hill Suites about 20-25 minutes away. It was right on the beach, so a good alternative for us. The gulf water was chilly, but still able to spend some time in it a couple days when it was 70+ & sunny. The Boiler is just a few minutes past Spring Hill, so we would visit the beach/hot tub & get supper on way back to our villa a couple times. We should have gone further south but it was far enough being 15+ hour one way drive.

 

[iftravel]

Much better than weather in Kansas!! 65-70 everyday. The pool/hot tub area was being renovated, so they provided those services @ Spring Hill Suites about 20-25 minutes away. It was right on the beach, so a good alternative for us. The gulf water was chilly, but still able to spend some time in it a couple days when it was 70+ & sunny. The Boiler is just a few minutes past Spring Hill, so we would visit the beach/hot tub & get supper on way back to our villa a couple times. We should have gone further south but it was far enough being 15+ hour one way drive.

All way down from Kansas?! It must be a great place for New Year eve and glad you didn't stop in New Orleans. One of future New Years I will be there but for 2025, I am thinking of Orlando.

 

[dioxide45]

Much better than weather in Kansas!! 65-70 everyday. The pool/hot tub area was being renovated, so they provided those services @ Spring Hill Suites about 20-25 minutes away. It was right on the beach, so a good alternative for us. The gulf water was chilly, but still able to spend some time in it a couple days when it was 70+ & sunny. The Boiler is just a few minutes past Spring Hill, so we would visit the beach/hot tub & get supper on way back to our villa a couple times. We should have gone further south but it was far enough being 15+ hour one way drive.

We have an II exchange in March. It will be our first time at Legends Edge and the last (non City Collection) Marriott timeshare to visit in Florida. It is good that they provided access to another property's pool while they were renovating the one at Legends Edge.

What is The Boiler?

 

[jrb916]

All way down from Kansas?! It must be a great place for New Year eve and glad you didn't stop in New Orleans. One of future New Years I will be there but for 2025, I am thinking of Orlando.

2024—Orlando for Pop Tarts Bowl & Xmas Cruise (stayed @ WM Reunion & Kingstown Reef)
2023-WM Branson & then New Orleans for Sugar Bowl (stayed in a hotel & we missed our TS stay)
2022-Stormy Point Branson

We drove each time. We will plan 2026 once football season starts as we may get reservations in a couple places & adjust our trip as needed to go to the KSU bowl game.

 

[jrb916]

We have an II exchange in March. It will be our first time at Legends Edge and the last (non City Collection) Marriott timeshare to visit in Florida. It is good that they provided access to another property's pool while they were renovating the one at Legends Edge.

What is The Boiler?

Pool/hot tub opened 3 days after we left. Check out their FB page for pics, etc.

The Boiler is a Cajun Boil restaurant. We enjoyed it along w/ Dat Cajan (minutes from Legends, next to Winn Dixie), Pineapple Willies & Dave’s Cafe.

We hope to be back during warmer weather (March seems ideal) & activities/amenities are fully functional. Will be looking for your video after your visit.

 

[vacationtime1]

To my surprise, I just got a two bedroom ocean view at Westin Nanea in exchange for a one bedroom at Desert Springs 1. Most of my other interval exchanges have had lousy views

There is no such thing as "ocean view" at Nanea. There is Ocean Front, which is excellent, and there is Resort View, which ranges from very good to a parking structure view.

 

[Jerrygomi]

I Can see the ocean from my room, but it’s not on the oceanfront.

 

[Tcbmcb5]

We just returned from OceanWatch where we exchanged into 3 units for spring break. We made these exchanges a year ago. My BonVoy account and Interval exchange history showed 2 of the units were designated as Oceanfront and 1 was Garden View. About a month ago I received an email from Marriott OW referencing only 1 of the units that was supposed to be oceanfront but the email specifically said we were being placed in a Garden View room in a lower floor of the Pine or Maple building. I never received an email referencing the other 2 units. I did call and talk to someone at MOW to make sure they knew we had 3 units and asked if they could honor the Oceanfront designation for 2 of the units. They said they did have record of the 3 exchanges and would try to honor my preferences. When we arrived we were given 2 oceanfront rooms in the Starfish tower on the 7th floor. Amazing views!! The other room was sure enough a garden view 6th floor room in the Maple building. So we did end up getting exactly what we were hoping for. The resort was definitely not at capacity so I guess they always say “views are not guaranteed” for when they are packed and have less wiggle room to keep everyone happy.
As discussed in other posts, exchanges done through Interval still get free parking. I was nervous because even the Welcome packet paperwork received at check in says parking is $25 per day, per vehicle.

 

[Superchief]

In my recent experiences, I think most resorts by default assign exchangers in the lowest type of villa. However, if I call and request a better villa and provide my ownership information, they will 'upgrade' me as long as the resort isn't full with MVC owners. It also helps to link the stay to additional nights using DC points so they benefit by keeping you in the same villa. A call or email to the rooms control manager definitely helps.

 

[claraj]

It also helps to link the stay to additional nights using DC points so they benefit by keeping you in the same villa.

I'm in a situation where I'm planning to go to Aruba for Saturday to Saturday and need a 2BR. I have traded into a studio Sat-Sat and a 1BR for Fri-Fri. I'm looking to retrade into, ideally a 2BR that's Sat-Sat, but worst case I booked a1BR for the Friday night I need with points and it's a Garden View . So I keep checking for a better view there too. Hopefully something comes up during the next 3 months.

 

[Pamplemousse]

We just returned from OceanWatch where we exchanged into 3 units for spring break. We made these exchanges a year ago. My BonVoy account and Interval exchange history showed 2 of the units were designated as Oceanfront and 1 was Garden View. About a month ago I received an email from Marriott OW referencing only 1 of the units that was supposed to be oceanfront but the email specifically said we were being placed in a Garden View room in a lower floor of the Pine or Maple building. I never received an email referencing the other 2 units. I did call and talk to someone at MOW to make sure they knew we had 3 units and asked if they could honor the Oceanfront designation for 2 of the units. They said they did have record of the 3 exchanges and would try to honor my preferences. When we arrived we were given 2 oceanfront rooms in the Starfish tower on the 7th floor. Amazing views!! The other room was sure enough a garden view 6th floor room in the Maple building. So we did end up getting exactly what we were hoping for. The resort was definitely not at capacity so I guess they always say “views are not guaranteed” for when they are packed and have less wiggle room to keep everyone happy.
As discussed in other posts, exchanges done through Interval still get free parking. I was nervous because even the Welcome packet paperwork received at check in says parking is $25 per day, per vehicle.

Most of the time MVC does keep the views of exchanged.
It is a great idea to call a few weeks ahead in addition to the pre arrival email.
Sometimes people don’t think they got their ‘view’ because what you see may not match the words- a first floor ocean front/view may look at patio furniture.
They do generally give exchangers the lowest units in their category.

 

[Dean]

For both Ki Olina and MOC over the past couple of weeks they stated that they only assign the view type exchanged into.

 

[jwalk03]

In my recent experiences, I think most resorts by default assign exchangers in the lowest type of villa. However, if I call and request a better villa and provide my ownership information, they will 'upgrade' me as long as the resort isn't full with MVC owners. It also helps to link the stay to additional nights using DC points so they benefit by keeping you in the same villa. A call or email to the rooms control manager definitely helps.

That has not been my experience. I have always gotten the view code that was listed on my interval exchange. I have never been downgraded. I have gotten oceanfront rooms at OceanWatch & Ocean Pointe on exchanges, and Oceanview at Surf Club as well.

I know from many reports here that the Hilton head resorts are ones that typically do downgrade views for exchangers- but I haven’t stayed at any of them yet.

 

[davidvel]

That has not been my experience. I have always gotten the view code that was listed on my interval exchange. I have never been downgraded. I have gotten oceanfront rooms at OceanWatch & Ocean Pointe on exchanges, and Oceanview at Surf Club as well.

I know from many reports here that the Hilton head resorts are ones that typically do downgrade views for exchangers- but I haven’t stayed at any of them yet.

This is typical at MVC. For the same reason, owners staying in their island view week do not get OF rooms.

 

[SueDonJ]

If their policy is to always assign II exchanges Garden View units, how would any owner benefit from this policy? Therefore no exchanger would get any benefit. Where does the resort move this inventory? An owner who used VC points for a reservation only gets the villa level that they reserved with points. The resort isn't going to upgrade a points user or week owner to a higher view villa. If 25% of the owner deposits are for oceanside or ocean front villas, and 100% of the exchangers are assigned the garden villas, how are those 25% inventory units used? If MVC utilizes them for DC point reservations or for Marriott Bonvoy rentals or Encore, they are generating more revenue from those downgraded II exchanges. I would also like to note that Ocean side villas are still available for VC points or Bonvoy cash reservations for the week I am there.

As I mentioned earlier, I received the confirmed Oceanside villa assignment two years ago when I combined it with my Oceanside points reservations. At that time, II provided PDF confirmations that included the villa level that had been deposited. Exchanges were typically allocated in the same 'buckets' as the deposits. Recently, II stopped including PDF files with the exchange details and it is much more difficult to find the type of unit that had been deposited (and to add to Bonvoy reservations). I realize that exchangers always have the lowest villa assignment priority, but at least the villa assignment was for the confirmed view type. In the past, owners exchanging into their owned resort received priority over other exchangers or renters, but II stopped providing ownership information to the resort so this policy stopped.

My question is still whether this downgrade is occurring at the other MVC resorts with multiple view levels, and has anyone actually been upgrade to a higher level for an exchange or points reservation?

For as long as I've owned at Barony and SurfWatch the resorts' stated placement policy is that first, understandably (and legally,) in order come Owners using their Owned Weeks, Abound Members using their Owned Points, and Cash Guests, all of whom are placed into the view that they specifically reserve - there are virtually no upgrades or downgrades among these groups (except in very rare instances of inventory becoming unexpectedly uninhabitable.) Next come any Preview and Encore guests who were guaranteed a specific view (which doesn't always happen.) Finally, among all the remaining available units, in order come the Resort Owners exchanging back in*, other Marriott Owners exchanging in*, Preview and Encore guests who weren't guaranteed a specific view, and finally non-Marriott exchangers.

A few notes:

* Most Marriott exchanges are via II but several of the older HHI Marriotts can also exchange via RCI because those resorts were originally affiliated with RCI, so the resort personnel lump all exchangers together.

I believe the placement policy is similar at the other Hilton Head resorts (except the oldest ones with Fixed Weeks in their schedules) because that's what I've read over the years on TUG.

The pre-arrival emails and other sources all say something to the effect of "all exchangers are placed into Gardenview units" but I think that's more a tempering of expectations than it is a guarantee. There's certainly been enough anecdotal reports on TUG about exchangers getting unexpected oceanfront or oceanview placements to know that there's always a chance, but I think that the chances are better during the slower seasons when there are more available units for the resort staff to play around with. Whether the HHI resorts are unique in the portfolio I don't know, but they definitely aren't among the resorts that strictly follow a policy of exchangers being placed into the exact unit type indicated on exchange confirmations. But the result of the HHI policy isn't ever that Owners specifically get upgraded while non-Owners get downgraded; it's that after those who book specific views are placed into those views, there's yet another hierarchy among remaining guests and inventory that might result in placement in something other than what's on an exchange certificate.

 

[rthib]

What would be that advantage to MVCI for doing downgrades? Who would they give that room to? Owners get view they own, points get the view the reserve, cash get the view they reserve,. Seems changing views for II would cause more problems.

 

[SueDonJ]

What would be that advantage to MVCI for doing downgrades? Who would they give that room to? Owners get view they own, points get the view the reserve, cash get the view they reserve,. Seems changing views for II would cause more problems.

Considering that Marriott has the right to make available for cash stays inventory to which they're entitled through multiple avenues, it benefits them greatly to be able to manipulate inventory among all of the buckets. For a simplified example, say Marriott has access to twenty gardenview units and II exchangers are confirmed into twenty oceanfront units that have been deposited by Owners. Marriott can take those oceanfront units from II and replace them with the gardenview units they're holding, thereby increasing their potential income from cash stays because views are a differential in pricing.

But it can be an advantage for Owners if they're prioritized for views when they exchange back in, too. Using the simplest example of two units available as exchanges, one oceanfront and one gardenview, and two confirmed exchangers, one a Resort Owner exchanging back in and one a non-Marriott owner, then resort personnel can place the Marriott Owner exchanging back in into the oceanfront unit regardless of what either II confirmation says.

 

[Superchief]

Considering that Marriott has the right to make available for cash stays inventory to which they're entitled through multiple avenues, it benefits them greatly to be able to manipulate inventory among all of the buckets. For a simplified example, say Marriott has access to twenty gardenview units and II exchangers are confirmed into twenty oceanfront units that have been deposited by Owners. Marriott can take those oceanfront units from II and replace them with the gardenview units they're holding, thereby increasing their potential income from cash stays because views are a differential in pricing.

This really doesn't seem ethical to me and I would never have invested in my MVC timeshares if I thought they would profit by downgrading owners from what they are entitled to. If a ocean view unit was reserved for an exchange deposit, it should be used for an exchanger. I was told that they can't move inventory between 'buckets', but wouldn't be surprised if there is a loophole in the terms and conditions that allows them to do this.

 

[Dean]

This really doesn't seem ethical to me and I would never have invested in my MVC timeshares if I thought they would profit by downgrading owners from what they are entitled to. If a ocean view unit was reserved for an exchange deposit, it should be used for an exchanger. I was told that they can't move inventory between 'buckets', but wouldn't be surprised if there is a loophole in the terms and conditions that allows them to do this.

Talking exchanges there are no owners rights that are applicable. All MVC has to do to fix this is simply remove all avenues to see what the deposited unit view type was.

 

[SueDonJ]

This really doesn't seem ethical to me and I would never have invested in my MVC timeshares if I thought they would profit by downgrading owners from what they are entitled to. If a ocean view unit was reserved for an exchange deposit, it should be used for an exchanger. I was told that they can't move inventory between 'buckets', but wouldn't be surprised if there is a loophole in the terms and conditions that allows them to do this.

I'm not surprised by anyone disagreeing with the policy but there are two points I'd make:

First, IMO "ethics" don't play a part in timeshares except if the action that's considered to be unethical is simultaneously a violation of timeshare laws and/or whatever is stipulated in the governing documents. I'm much more concerned that the timeshare-related companies in which I'm vested follow the legalities than follow a random ethical conundrum in one way or another (assuming either way is in compliance with the docs.)

Second, I don't see how the placement hierarchy that Marriott has in effect at the HHI resorts is a downgrade for any owners. Owners using their owned Weeks or Club Points are always placed into the unit/view type that they've purchased/reserved. With respect to exchanges it's both Marriott's and the exchange companies' rules/docs that govern placement, and the particular dynamics between Marriott and II or RCI allow that 1) Owners who exchange *out* get the same exchange value from their deposit as every other like deposit regardless of who ultimately stays in the unit that correlates to their deposit, and 2) Owners who exchange *in* aren't guaranteed any certain placement but may under certain circumstances be upgraded from whatever is indicated on their exchange confirmation. Where is the loss for any Owners, because I've just never seen it?

 

[Hindsite]

If a ocean view unit was reserved for an exchange deposit, it should be used for an exchanger. I was told that they can't move inventory between 'buckets', but wouldn't be surprised if there is a loophole in the terms and conditions that allows them to do this.

A lot of the inventory management is done based on forecasting e.g MVC guessing what owners will do with their ownership. Based on their guessing, they identify volumes of inventory for the different "buckets". Depending on what owners actually do they may then need to move inventory between the "buckets" we know that they can do this as its in the exchange procedures and terms and conditions. We know that they do do it as it was stated in the Investor presentation during the post COVID travel peak that they would be moving inventory from their rental keys to owner reservations and then some interesting stuff started to appear. I though it was very good of them to do that, as it goes against the notion that its all about monetising inventory, but that was likely an exception rather than the rule.
Any exchange or trading power or the ability to get anything is a discretionary benefit of ownership so they can muck about with it as the feel the need. They do an "independent" audit to try and gauge how much they are off in their forecasting vs what people want and if I recall its 90-95% that people get what they want. Which is good unless you are one of the people that don't get what you want.
I suspect that they find waitlists in Abound and requests in II very helpful in refining the shuffling of inventory to get things to where they are wanted.
Its also worth remembering that deposits into II really aren't all "owner books and the deposits2, many people use the facility for MVC to deposit for them, and no Sheraton and Westin deposits are done by owner. They also deposit a load of their own inventory, which is why there is so much low season availability in II. We see so much bulk loading of inventory that it is almost certain that they are doing quite a lot of forecasting and shuffling. We do also see owner specific deposits, but bulk deposits seem to be more prevalent as far as inventory volume goes. What they do with inventory that an owner "deposits" to II, but is held back by the system managers is anybody's guess, they may have a hierarchy based on waitlists or perceived rental demand.
Good inventory management reduces the number of orphaned and fractured weeks and tries to optimise revenue while also meeting the demands of the various customer groups. Its in all our interests that they can and do shuffle things about, otherwise we'd all be having to pay for wasted inventory.
..at least that's how I view it based on an inventory management view of the world... it may be wrong and we'll never know enough detail to tell, but it works for me