is it time to sell?

[rocky]

I'm trying to think of why I keep my SVO unit.

When I bought it I liked -

- Converting the unit to Starpoints to stay at hotels. Well, we all know how well that worked out for SVO owners. SVO your excuses about not doing the right thing on this issue are utter crap. Don't make me start up a personal hobby of getting google to pull up SVO Rip Off Stories when people type in key words into a search engine......

- Exclusive upscale feel to resorts. The resorts look nice, but fearing that I will get a crappy view if I don't call at 6am 365 days out is a downer.

- Nice experience. I battle in the hot tub for a spot with unsupervised kids and teens and adults from other hotels and from town. The music BLASTS into the night, and frankly it sucks. It's the same old spring break greatest hits garbage you can listen to all day and night at burger in paradise.

- Less developed area of Ka'anapali. Now we are to be squeezed in like sardines with other massive resorts to the right, and to the right again. If I wanted to vacation at the mall, I can drive there and enjoy the crowds without purchasing plane tickets.

- High quality resort. Until it rains hard and then NEW buildings turn into a sieve and rain falls indoors.

- Value will hold. Ok. I fell for it back in 2002. But value will keep falling now..... I can't fathom how they sell units for $68K next door. Are people that stupid, do people really not look at the internet before spending that kind of money????? Is it time to cut my losses?

- Maintenance Fees. Just imagine what they will be like in 5 or 6 years. It's getting ugly already. Does each unit look like it gets 52 * $1650 worth of maintenence every year?????

Ok. Just tell me why I keep it. When I can make arrangements on my own for less cost and less hassle and not be stuck going to the same 10 places SVO has resorts.

 

[stevens397]

Rocky, I feel your pain. The only difference is that I have truly enjoyed my vacations.

I'm upset about the significant devaluations of Starpoints. As I just wrote on FlyerTalk, if jumping a level meant another 5,000 points a night, that would be one thing and be understandable. But when I bought Kierland, trading in my unit for Starpoints would have gotten me almost 10 nights in a hotel room at the Westin in St. John. Well, we're down to between 3 and 4! As I wrote to Starwood, they have pretty much eliminated the reason to purchase from the developer.

But that's because we here on TUG have a clue to what we're doing. The bigger issue to me, which you touched on, is what's happening to pricing. Look at the newest Marriott's, look at the new Hilton project in NY and look at the best views with Starwood and some have already broken the $100,000 barrier for one frigging week of vacation! I'd rather pay $300,000 for a 3 bedroom home in a beautiful location in southern Florida and no longer have to worry about getting the week and the view I want! And get some appreciation in the process.

Hard to believe this is all happening as we watch a recession take over our country. Then again, these companies are all bigger and more successful than Stevens397 so what do I know?

Your case is a little bit more difficult because you don't seem to enjoy where you own. I guess the only answer is to try your success at trading and see how it works out and if it is enough to temporarily make you happy. If not, then you're right - it may be time to cut your losses.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I also feel you pain. I do not worry about SO-SP conversion since we bought resale. Also - no issue with calling ahead of time - which is only really needed if staying during high season. Like Stevens397 - we have really (really) enjoyed all of our stays, and haven't had any real issues at the any resort (except for children left unattended by their parents, but this happens all over). I have found the construction of our resorts to be pretty good under normal circumstances. In fact - we have never once even heard our neighbors to the sides or below/above. Again, we bought resale - so our value is pretty much what we paid. As to the increase in MFs - yes, they better get a handle on this (but still cheaper than renting).

But it does sound as you have 'lost the love' and perhaps it is time to move on.

 

[capjak]

YES, SALE!

You sound like the perfect type for renting.

 

[sharktzu]

Rocky,I think all of us on this board share your concerns regarding SVO. However, one thing that I have begun to consider as of late is that this board is a kind of closed circle. I mean we all tend to focus on the negatives that occur in the starwood system. This is natural since we all want to protect our selves and our interest in SVO and it plays a vital role overall in keeping ourselves informed and perhaps keeping SVO somewhat on their toes (or at least sales reps). But ask yourself if you would be so down on SVO if you weren't on this board. Based on your stays at SVO resorts, would you feel the same way you feel now? I'm not sure what your answer is, but I know that I myself am not ready to jump the SVO ship. I do think that Starwood has become a victim of its own rapid success and things may have to get worse before SVO starts to hear the complaints and turn things around.

 

[Denise L]

rocky,

You stated in another thread that you rent your week out and use the $4K to stay somewhere else. I suppose that if you like that arrangement, then that would be one reason to keep your ownership?

Otherwise, I would suggest that if you are thinking of selling, that venting about the negatives (so publicly), while it probably feels good, might not help you get that price that you hope to get for your week, especially if some of your potential buyers are reading TUG . I don't see how it helps our resale value if we constantly complain about all the things we don't like, unless we discuss the positives, too. I mean, who wants our resale values to go down when they really should be so much higher!

Okay, so reasons to keep your week:

1. You can rent your week out and use the proceeds to rent somewhere else
2. WKORV is one of the nicest places to stay in West Maui
3. $1700-1800 in MFs will NOT pay for any equivalent accommodations on Maui
4. The snorkeling is great, and the turtles would miss you
5. The beach is very nice
6. Heavenly beds and showers are really great

 

[SDKath]

I agree with Denise -- there has been a really negative (read bitter) feeling in the air here over the last few weeks. All I can say is that Starwood still has the nicest properties of any timeshare system (ok, don't include the fractionals like Ritz for $300,000). And their system has availability just about any time (see sightings board for II trades) and I have enjoyed my stays immensely so far even though I am not yet officially an owner.

I would pick Starwood over any other system any day! And I'll continue to buy (on resale) in the years to come.

Katherine

 

[lprstn]

If you are not happy then by all means sell it. The purpose of owning a TS is for your personal choice in vacation experiences. I love my Starwood and love staying on the property that I bought just as much as I love my Wyndam. I never considered selling it, although I have considered doing things differently with my TS purchases. Again I say, if you are not happy with the product, sell it and cut your losses, save the $$$ you would spend in MF and when you want a condo, rent from a TUGGER who has what you want....

 

[DeniseM]

But ask yourself if you would be so down on SVO if you weren't on this board. Based on your stays at SVO resorts, would you feel the same way you feel now?

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here!

Isn't that kind of like saying, "If you were one of the many uninformed timeshare owners, wouldn't you be happier?"

Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but I still prefer to be an informed (but jaded) consumer.

And to respond to the question - my DH has NEVER set eyes on TUG and he is the one who won't go back to the WKORV again...

 

[DeniseM]

Sharktzu - I just noticed for the first time that you own at the same little Tahoe TS as we do! (I don't think we've talked about it before, have we???)

 

[Transit]

I completely understand ,I think it's the constant barrage of bad news thats been coming our way thats also very disheartening.Never any good news .I do enjoy my SVN vacations but would like to hear something really positive coming from Starwood not just smoke and mirror gag promises.

 

[califgal]

Rocky,if it doesn't suit you anymore, then sell. We've been quite happy at WKORV, we like the location, even with the additional building going on, and we never bought it with the intention of converting into starpoints.

Our frist timeshare purchase was Worldmark, after several years we realized it really wasn't for us, especially after we saw and purchased WKORV. We still hung on to it a few more years and finally sold it last year.

You really sound dissatisfied, so sell and do something else with your money.

 

[DavidnRobin]

And to respond to the question - my DH has NEVER set eyes on TUG and he is the one who won't go back to the WKORV again...

would he if you owned OF?

In the spirit...

We really like our WKORV unit (resale) - both the resort, our unit, and the local area - and Maui. No issues except having to call at 12 months, but that was a concious life choice.

We really like WKV (resale) - same as above - except we'd prefer Maui, but Scottsdale is okay especially being Giant's Fans - March is our time there - plus my folks are close by. I am jealous that a someone just got one cheaper than mine (slightly...)

We really like WSJ (resale) - same as above - plus it is STJ. Downside is the distance from SF, but... it is STJ... (again - someone mangaed to find one slightly less - surprisingly so)

I know we are going to like WPORV (SVO)... positively - can't wait. We also have about 340K SPs - even with the deval (which sucks) - we are going to enjoy 4 weeks in Europe next year - followed by 4 weeks in HI.

...but first WSJ,WKORV, WKV...

We are happy campers - just wish SVO/SVN had a better database and reservation system.

Rescind, Research, Resale, Requal.

 

[DeniseM]

would he if you owned OF?

I know you are yanking my chain, but actually, it probably would make a big difference!

I don't know if you remember or not, but about this time last year I contacted Starwood about buying OF at WKORV (upgrading with my OV unit.) I emailed the top dog (can't remember his name right now) but he just said they didn't have anything available right then and he would get back to me. He never did, and then I bought 2 weeks OF on Kauai instead. If he had provided some customer service and come up with a decent deal, I was seriously considering upgrading to OF and requaling my SDO resale...

 

[oneohana]

I love our stays at *wood rersorts. In fact, I just bought another week.
Sure it is not perfect, but until we get a hybrid of all the major hotel ts systems, this one serves us the best for our needs at this time.

 

[DavidnRobin]

I know you are yanking my chain, but actually, it probably would make a big difference!

I don't know if you remember or not, but about this time last year I contacted Starwood about buying OF at WKORV (upgrading with my OV unit.) I emailed the top dog (can't remember his name right now) but he just said they didn't have anything available right then and he would get back to me. He never did, and then I bought 2 weeks OF on Kauai instead. If he had provided some customer service and come up with a decent deal, I was seriously considering upgrading to OF and requaling my SDO resale...

yes, I am and yes - I do remember. btw, someone actually just paid over $100K for a OF Dlx (YIKES!) - Luckily they found TUG - and just saved BIG $$$$ - and perhaps should spend the measly $15 TUG membership... the best bargain in TSing {hint hint...}

I don't think you would have paid that hefty premium even with an exchange. I think the OF units at WKORV are very unique and will only get more so - especially compared to those so-called OFs at WKORV-N - or anything else being built (including those very ritzy ones north).

It was soooo great during our last trip (sans family) - especially being able to go right out front for great snorkling then jump in the hot tub and then up to the room for a cocktail while watching the sunset (and occasionally dancing nekkid on the lanai - not a pretty sight... I mean me not Robin - she's pretty :whoopie

 

[DeniseM]

I bet it was great! (I have OF envy!) Our very first trip to the WKORV we were upgraded to OF! It was magical...and of course, it will never happen again...sigh.....

Regarding whether I would have pulled the trigger or not...definitely not for $100K...but I had just come into an inheritance so I was serious about buying. I hope we will love our OF Kauai weeks...I think we will...

 

[stevens397]

Well Denise, if you have OF envy, I have David-Robin envy!

I've often thought to myself - these people who want 5* Elite for the SPG Platinum for Life, how the hell will they ever use it??? They have somewhere between four and eight timeshare weeks a year (if locked off). How many more vacations can they take to make Platinum for life so special?

FOUR WEEKS IN EUROPE PLUS ALL OF YOUR OTHER VACATION WEEKS!!!!!

Even though I just turned 60, please feel free to adopt me anytime! Let's just say I'm impressed

 

[alwysonvac]

Rocky thanks for sharing your thoughts

Hopefully TUG won't become a place where folks only paint a rosy picture in fear of future resale values....

I don't own starwood but I own some of the other hotel based timeshares and do think about selling from time to time for various reasons.

I just hope TUG never becomes like the DVC disboards where most folks can't take negative feedback, deny there is any problem and tell you to sell if you don't like it.

 

[tomandrobin]

We are very happy Starwood owners. We are very disappointed that Aruba was cancelled, but Aruba was not an option when we bought.

I might be less thrilled if I had to deal with some of issues that every has listed above.

The Staroption devaluation is not good. Its not why we bought, but at least it gave you a comfortable fall back option. The last two years have really but a hurting on those plans.

I guess it comes down to where you bought, what you bought and what your expectations are.

 

[LisaRex]

I haven't even visited my home resort yet, so it's hard for me to know whether I've gotten a decent return on my investment. However, it's well documented that I'm becoming increasingly disappointed with the SVO leadership.

From their audacious notification to elite owners that they should no longer expect upgrades, to their continuous refusal to address the StarPoint conversion devaluation, to the scrapping of the Aruba project without even bothering to notify the owners, I am disillusioned at how callously they treat the owners who represent their core consumers.

I work for a Fortune 50 company. If Joan Smith from Dubuque, Iowa writes us a letter complaining about one of our products, she will receive a reply back from a manager. It might not be the answer she wants to hear, but her complaint will be, at the very least, acknowledged. She'll also get a coupon for a free product as a gesture of good will. Now, we sell BILLIONS of dollars of product each year and we could honestly afford to lose a Joan Smith here or there. That's not the point.

The point is, that unless management is focused on satisfying its core audience, it won't succeed. And until it figures out how sustain its core, it most certainly can't expand.

I've written to Starwood a few times with various, very specific complaints. Their response has been the corporate equivalent of social snub. They don't even bother to acknowledge my complaint. That, in my opinion, is a very foreboding sign.

So while my home resort may be a nice place, the organization that supports it is sending off a vibe of either gross incompetence or arrogance. And while I'm not ready to put my villa on the market yet, I wouldn't consider sinking another dime into SVO, or recommending it to anyone, until I see signs that management has a game plan for addressing some of the rational concerns of its owners.

 

[calgarygary]

I haven't even visited my home resort yet, so it's hard for me to know whether I've gotten a decent return on my investment. However, it's well documented that I'm becoming increasingly disappointed with the SVO leadership.

From their audacious notification to elite owners that they should no longer expect upgrades, to their continuous refusal to address the StarPoint conversion devaluation, to the scrapping of the Aruba project without even bothering to notify the owners, I am disillusioned at how callously they treat the owners who represent their core consumers.

I work for a Fortune 50 company. If Joan Smith from Dubuque, Iowa writes us a letter complaining about one of our products, she will receive a reply back from a manager. It might not be the answer she wants to hear, but her complaint will be, at the very least, acknowledged. She'll also get a coupon for a free product as a gesture of good will. Now, we sell BILLIONS of dollars of product each year and we could honestly afford to lose a Joan Smith here or there. That's not the point.

The point is, that unless management is focused on satisfying its core audience, it won't succeed. And until it figures out how sustain its core, it most certainly can't expand.

I've written to Starwood a few times with various, very specific complaints. Their response has been the corporate equivalent of social snub. They don't even bother to acknowledge my complaint. That, in my opinion, is a very foreboding sign.

So while my home resort may be a nice place, the organization that supports it is sending off a vibe of either gross incompetence or arrogance. And while I'm not ready to put my villa on the market yet, I wouldn't consider sinking another dime into SVO, or recommending it to anyone, until I see signs that management has a game plan for addressing some of the rational concerns of its owners.

I believe that the core issue with Starwood's inability to address customer complaints is that they have a CEO who is unpracticed in that area. After all, who writes to complain about their beer?:rofl:

I came across an interesting article - Starwood's conference call on Q4 earnings. Buried in the transcript are the 5 pillars of Starwood -
1)World class branding
2)Operationally driven (guest satisfaction gets less play than managing expenses)
3)Growth
4)Building great teams
5)Delivering superior returns to shareholders

With customer satisfaction being a subscript of one pillar, is it no wonder we are experiencing issues? The call goes on to specifically question ts performance and the issue of Aruba (which had to be known at the time) was not addressed but Hawaii got great play.

 

[capjak]

I just hope TUG never becomes like the DVC disboards where most folks can't take negative feedback, deny there is any problem and tell you to sell if you don't like it.

I go on disboards and....

I can't believe you are dissing DVC disboards, there is nothing wrong with the disboards and if you don't like it don't go on it.

 

[tomandrobin]

I go on disboards and....

I can't believe you are dissing DVC disboards, there is nothing wrong with the disboards and if you don't like it don't go on it.

To make DNR happy.

Is there even a penalty system on TUG?

 

[DavidnRobin]

Perhaps there should be one for the Starwood Forum - where penalties are given for subverting a SVO thread to discuss DVC (yet again). Perhaps we should have a poll on who cares about DVC... (I vote NO).
{enter smiley face...}