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Is 2019 the 'Year of the Timeshare'? [Marriott/Vistana/Hyatt in the DC speculation]

GregT

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All,

Yes, this is definitely speculation and we will all learn in the coming months what the changes are to the system. What KDS4 has posted is directionally consistent with what I've heard earlier in 2019. I still expect to be happy with both my VSN and my MVC ownerships from the future changes and am curious to see what comes.

Thanks to all for the comments, have been interesting to follow.

Best,

Greg
 
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GregT

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From Feb 2019, which I posted at the time -- and remains speculation. No recent updates or confirmation.

News from our corp Sales Excellence Conf. with MVC VPs and a group of the worldwide sales team:
  • New vacation club in Costa Rica (Los Suenos) coming shorty. Likely a small property.

  • Integration of MVC and Vistana (+ St. Regis Residence clubs) should be announced in about 6 months. First phase of integration will be a points overlay – ability to convert MVC vacation points/weeks to Vistana staroptions and vice versa for cross-booking purposes.

  • Vistana weeks will likely be given a MVC Destinations enrollment value. This may favor Scottsdale/Palm Desert weeks as they make have close to similar values to Hawaii weeks (since that is similar to StarOptions values).

  • Vistana/St Regis owners will likely qualify for MVC loyalty levels (Exec/Pres./Chairmans)

  • A level higher than Chairmans is not ruled out, but likely not coming very soon

  • Hyatt clubs being kept separate for now – until current licensing agreement with Hyatt hotels expires. Uncertain what happens after that.
There’s a decent chance we do one more “amnesty enrollment” of post-2010 external weeks this summer before the integration.
 

kds4

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So wait, one clarification. They are going to further restrict those who already purchased resale? If they will restrict resale purchases post whatever changes you’re referring to that’s one thing, but retroactively restricting resale purchase is back punishment. Why would anyone want to do business with such a slimy company? Why spend all of that money upfront if you can’t even exit because no one will want to touch any resale going forward. Either that or they scared you away from buying resale or took away your power to say, I can buy them cheaper on resale. If they turn around and further restrict those who purchase resale units or points out of the blue then thankfully I never paid developer price into MVC.

No new restrictions. The opposite actually. There will be new options to use Marriott Destination Points. Existing usage options for resale points remain unchanged, from what I read. However, to 'unlock' the new uses for existing enrolled weeks/points, you have to buy a minimal number of additional points. It is a spin on the buy points to enroll weeks we former legacy owners did years ago to have the conversion to points option for our weeks. Marriott's new options to use DPs and enrolled weeks requires a new developer points purchase, but everything else you already own (X enrolled weeks/ X number of DPs) will also be enrolled/eligible for the new usage option as a result. If you are strictly a legacy (weeks) owner, this will not apply. It is for enrolled owners/DP owners.
 

Fasttr

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No new restrictions. The opposite actually. There will be new options to use Marriott Destination Points. Existing usage options for resale points remain unchanged, from what I read. However, to 'unlock' the new uses for existing enrolled weeks/points, you have to buy a minimal number of additional points. It is a spin on the buy points to enroll weeks we former legacy owners did years ago to have the conversion to points option for our weeks. Marriott's new options to use DPs and enrolled weeks requires a new developer points purchase, but everything else you already own (X enrolled weeks/ X number of DPs) will also be enrolled/eligible for the new usage option as a result. If you are strictly a legacy (weeks) owner, this will not apply. It is for enrolled owners/DP owners.
So you will have to buy more points to allow the points you just purchased to be “unlocked”???
 

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I'm no longer a Marriott Owner and am just opining from the peanut gallery. But my guess (and it is only a guess) is that Marriott will create some sort of enhancement which you will have to buy into to take advantage of. The way I see it is that what they are after is revenue enhancement which if true, leads me to believe whatever they offer will require a buy-in of some sort...

George
 

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I'M TIRED OF READING THESE INSANE SPECULATIVE POSTS......

WE'RE GETTING NOWHERE.

here's what I think....

 

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Is what you saw written in to your contract?

In the Miscellaneous Section of my contract it reads: "I acknowledge that Marriott Vacation Club currently intends to provide a resignation/resale program for Vacation Club Points Owners who wish to exit the program in the future."
 

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They al
In the Miscellaneous Section of my contract it reads: "I acknowledge that Marriott Vacation Club currently intends to provide a resignation/resale program for Vacation Club Points Owners who wish to exit the program in the future."
They already have a deedback program and just started one with Vistana. We are seeing so many commercials now about getting out of your dreaded timeshare, no one is buying them anymore. Most if not 90% of purchases are from existing owners. All that is telling me they will take your points back and let you out. I mean, why not? They already got your tens of thousands of dollars for you to get in at “the right time”.
 

Dean

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I read owner documents that will be provided in the near future to anyone purchasing points that made us decide to purchase points immediately. I had to ask to see these documents, and not just rely on hearing about it. I don't spend money based on what I hear. Should I have been able to read what I reviewed, maybe not (yet). However, I made it clear that verbal representations wouldn't get me to purchase anything. So, my 'bluff' was called, and I'm glad it was. I have said plenty already regarding what is coming. However, I don't want to get this person in trouble, as I know Marriott monitors TUG. I didn't see any 'corporate' inside information. I only read owner documents that will be issued when these program changes are rolled out in the near future. I chose to believe my own 'lyin eyes'.

In short, I think most Marriott timeshare owners will be very happy with these enhancements, and I think many enrolled owners and pure points owners will seriously consider buying more points from the developer as a result. YMMV.
I've seen sales agents product paperwork before that was either not true or at the least, misleading. A salesman, even a supervisor, is not going to have such details until a program has been locked in legally and that means filings with the county/state. Corporate doesn't give sales level people access until they're ready to proceed. This alone makes me skeptical but we'll see. Certainly things will change over time. They've been adding options to the DC system over time, none of which are earth shattering and most of which aren't worth the paper they're written on like Cruise or event options.
 

dioxide45

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From Feb 2019, which I posted at the time -- and remains speculation. No recent updates or confirmation.

  • Hyatt clubs being kept separate for now – until current licensing agreement with Hyatt hotels expires. Uncertain what happens after that.
Greg, This one seems a little skeptical. Based on prior comments by Steve Weisz mentioned in this post, the acquisition of ILG by VAC triggered a change of control provision which means that VAC had to go to the negotiating table with Hyatt in order to retain the ability to license the Hyatt name. Not sure they would have to wait for it to expire, perhaps they could just take an out now?
 

dioxide45

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I'M TIRED OF READING THESE INSANE SPECULATIVE POSTS......

WE'RE GETTING NOWHERE.

here's what I think....

Marty, This one deserves a million likes!
 
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So I attended a presentation this morning at summit watch in park city. They told us that all mvc members will get access to ILG resorts starting in December. ILG members will need to purchase 2500 MVC points in order to gain access to the Marriott program. The only other thing they mentioned is that all mvc owners will retain their current membership tier. However, they will be increasing the minimum point thresholds moving forward to bump up to next level. (For example instead of 7k points for executive, it will take 9k to move to this tier from select moving forward)
 

dioxide45

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So I attended a presentation this morning at summit watch in park city. They told us that all mvc members will get access to ILG resorts starting in December. ILG members will need to purchase 2500 MVC points in order to gain access to the Marriott program. The only other thing they mentioned is that all mvc owners will retain their current membership tier. However, they will be increasing the minimum point thresholds moving forward to bump up to next level. (For example instead of 7k points for executive, it will take 9k to move to this tier from select moving forward)
I suspect they would get very little buyin from Vistana owners. All current Marriott enrolled owners get free access and Vistana owners have to pay $25K+. That isn't going to fly.
 

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So I attended a presentation this morning at summit watch in park city. They told us that all mvc members will get access to ILG resorts starting in December. ILG members will need to purchase 2500 MVC points in order to gain access to the Marriott program. The only other thing they mentioned is that all mvc owners will retain their current membership tier. However, they will be increasing the minimum point thresholds moving forward to bump up to next level. (For example instead of 7k points for executive, it will take 9k to move to this tier from select moving forward)
Excellent. I assume for only those who purchase through the developer at top pricing? I’ll just rent peoples units in Marriott for less than maint fees if I really wanna go to a crap resort like st Kitts. But in all seriousness, that’s amazing I really hope you listened and bought more to get a higher tier! MVC couldn’t give me 2500 points to be in the program. No thanks.
 

dougp26364

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You have to love the swirling speculation from salesmen to TUG members. Just like before the DC became reality.

The consistency’s I see are: You’ll be grandfathered in at your current level and they want you to buy points now to reach that next level. It’s been they’re mantra at every owners update since the merger. Well, that and the Hyatt products will be the last added, which disappoints me greatly as I really want easier access to the Hyatt’s located in Sedona and Key West. I love the Westin product based on our stay in Kierland Villas, but the Westin’s aren’t in the new locations we covet.
 

CPNY

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I suspect they would get very little buyin from Vistana owners. All current Marriott enrolled owners get free access and Vistana owners have to pay $25K+. That isn't going to fly.

If that’s what’s being said we need to spread the word to all would be flex buyers to not spend a dime at Vistana. I’m going to call the Vistana sales guy and ask him tomorrow. If he says I have to spent 1 billion dollars to get into “illustrious” Marriott properties I’ll do it!! How can you pass that up? Seriously though, I hate that MVG bought us. I never liked their program. It’s truly horrible, nothing was better than Starwood. This is why I’d never buy more points at a high price. Things only get worse, quality diminishes over time. If it’s crap now, imagine 10 years from now.
 

CPNY

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You have to love the swirling speculation from salesmen to TUG members. Just like before the DC became reality.

The consistency’s I see are: You’ll be grandfathered in at your current level and they want you to buy points now to reach that next level. It’s been they’re mantra at every owners update since the merger. Well, that and the Hyatt products will be the last added, which disappoints me greatly as I really want easier access to the Hyatt’s located in Sedona and Key West. I love the Westin product based on our stay in Kierland Villas, but the Westin’s aren’t in the new locations we covet.

Agree I truly hope the MVC owners stay in their beloved Marriott properties lol.
 

mjm1

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If that’s what’s being said we need to spread the word to all would be flex buyers to not spend a dime at Vistana. I’m going to call the Vistana sales guy and ask him tomorrow. If he says I have to spent 1 billion dollars to get into “illustrious” Marriott properties I’ll do it!! How can you pass that up? Seriously though, I hate that MVG bought us. I never liked their program. It’s truly horrible, nothing was better than Starwood. This is why I’d never buy more points at a high price. Things only get worse, quality diminishes over time. If it’s crap now, imagine 10 years from now.

I hope you are able to back off of the ledge that you appear to be on. Remember this is all speculation.

We love our Marriott resorts and our Vistana resorts and look forward to the stays we have have both. There are many others who own in both systems and love them too. Of course each has their pros and cons.

I still can’t believe the MVC bought ILG and all it owned to turn around and turn off a huge portion of the owners in Vistana and Hyatt. That just wouldn’t make business sense. They want to increase revenues and profits in both the short term and long term.

While it is fun to speculate here on TUG we shouldn’t take anything we here to seriously and we should anxiously await the release of facts, hopefully later this year. I am looking forward to it.

Best regards.

Mike
 

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I hope you are able to back off of the ledge that you appear to be on. Remember this is all speculation.

We love our Marriott resorts and our Vistana resorts and look forward to the stays we have have both. There are many others who own in both systems and love them too. Of course each has their pros and cons.

I still can’t believe the MVC bought ILG and all it owned to turn around and turn off a huge portion of the owners in Vistana and Hyatt. That just wouldn’t make business sense. They want to increase revenues and profits in both the short term and long term.

While it is fun to speculate here on TUG we shouldn’t take anything we here to seriously and we should anxiously await the release of facts, hopefully later this year. I am looking forward to it.

Best regards.

Mike
No ledge. Just speaking truths lol. I do feel for some MVC owners though if they are being lied to. According to another MVC owner who sat through a presentation yesterday, “we sat through one yesterday, in Maui, per our presentation MVC owners have an advantage over other types of owners. Marriott spent 5.9 billion they want other owners to purchase points to recoup that cost” so if that’s what’s being said at the Marriott owners updates, I do feel bad for MVC owners who buy into that. Especially when nothing has been set in stone. Much like the other guy who’s first rodeo it isn’t and saw a word document with his own eyes and bought more developer points lol. I’m just pointing out, I’ll never buy developer price again. Unless they start selling lower than resale lol
 

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I’ve noticed destination point resales have resort transfer fees upwards of 7500 bucks for say 2,500DP’s. Is that normal? Is that to discourage resales?
 

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A fool and his money are soon parted. Sorry, until PROVEN otherwise..........you fell for his lips are moving
 

JIMinNC

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We are seeing so many commercials now about getting out of your dreaded timeshare, no one is buying them anymore. Most if not 90% of purchases are from existing owners.

If it is true that 90% of all purchases are from existing owners, then how did Marriott Vacations Worldwide sell $990 million in timeshare interests in 2018? That compares to $757 million in 2017 and $623 million in 2016. Hilton Grand Vacations also sells a lot of developer inventory, not to mention all of the "non-branded" timeshares.
 

CPNY

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If it is true that 90% of all purchases are from existing owners, then how did Marriott Vacations Worldwide sell $990 million in timeshare interests in 2018? That compares to $757 million in 2017 and $623 million in 2016. Hilton Grand Vacations also sells a lot of developer inventory, not to mention all of the "non-branded" timeshares.
It’s why I said “most if not 90%” not hard facts. Geez guy but seriously it’s around 60% average comes from existing owners, the few lucky new owners get to come here and learn to rescind.

But you like my figures? I can be in timeshare sales......
 

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It's been our general recommendation for at least the ~14 years I've been here to do everything you just wrote other than the holding off of buying resale.

It's absolutely true that for traditional weeks the long-time TUG admonition to always buy retail is still 100% true. There are a couple narrow exceptions to that rule, however, for Marriott Vacation Club points. It sounds like the OP may have taken advantage of one of those exceptions.

Since from your signature you appear to own only Vistana weeks, you may not know about some of the nuances of the MVC system, where some developer purchases can be very competitive with resale. Here are two:

1) Marriott no longer sells developer weeks and only sells DC Points from their MVC Trust now. However, if you know to ask or you don't bite on their offer of points for $10.50 to $12/point (after typical discounts), they will often offer to sell (brokered by their internal resale group) an enrolled resale week, plus an amount of Trust points that matches the point value of that resale week. For example, a week worth 2500 points, plus 2500 Trust points. The 2500 Trust points will be at their standard prices, so if they offer to sell you those at $11 each, that's $27,500. The resale week worth 2500 points might only cost $9,000, though (depends on what you buy, so this is just a theoretical example). So, for $36,500 you would get 5000 total points - an average cost of about $7.50 per point. MVC Trust points sell for around $4-$4.50/point on the secondary market, but then MVC requires the buyer to pay MVC a $3/point activation fee. So most resale points also cost in the $7 - $7.50 per point range. These are obviously only example numbers, but they are typical for these kinds of packages that have been bought by TUGgers (on TUG we call them hybrid bundles). Many TUGers have elected to take this approach because the cost is similar to resale, and by buying from Marriott, we have some protection of future benefits that pure resale points may not offer.

2) From time to time (about once per year for the last four years or so) MVC has allowed owners of externally-purchased resale weeks that were bought after June 2010 (the start of the DC Points program), weeks which are normally ineligible for points enrollment, to be enrolled if the owner purchases at least 3000 DC Trust points at standard $10-$12 discounted prices. If those resale weeks are point-rich weeks like Hawaii, Aruba, summer beach weeks, etc., the average net cost of the points added (the new trust points plus the enrolled points) can result in a very attractive cost per point, often below $6/point. For an owner who wants his/her resale weeks to be able to play in the points system, this can be very attractive.

So, there are a very few restrictive cases where a developer purchase could make sense for an owner who wants to fully participate in the DC Points program.
 

CPNY

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It's absolutely true that for traditional weeks the long-time TUG admonition to always buy retail is still 100% true. There are a couple narrow exceptions to that rule, however, for Marriott Vacation Club points. It sounds like the OP may have taken advantage of one of those exceptions.

Since from your signature you appear to own only Vistana weeks, you may not know about some of the nuances of the MVC system, where some developer purchases can be very competitive with resale. Here are two:

1) Marriott no longer sells developer weeks and only sells DC Points from their MVC Trust now. However, if you know to ask or you don't bite on their offer of points for $10.50 to $12/point (after typical discounts), they will often offer to sell (brokered by their internal resale group) an enrolled resale week, plus an amount of Trust points that matches the point value of that resale week. For example, a week worth 2500 points, plus 2500 Trust points. The 2500 Trust points will be at their standard prices, so if they offer to sell you those at $11 each, that's $27,500. The resale week worth 2500 points might only cost $9,000, though (depends on what you buy, so this is just a theoretical example). So, for $36,500 you would get 5000 total points - an average cost of about $7.50 per point. MVC Trust points sell for around $4-$4.50/point on the secondary market, but then MVC requires the buyer to pay MVC a $3/point activation fee. So most resale points also cost in the $7 - $7.50 per point range. These are obviously only example numbers, but they are typical for these kinds of packages that have been bought by TUGgers (on TUG we call them hybrid bundles). Many TUGers have elected to take this approach because the cost is similar to resale, and by buying from Marriott, we have some protection of future benefits that pure resale points may not offer.

2) From time to time (about once per year for the last four years or so) MVC has allowed owners of externally-purchased resale weeks that were bought after June 2010 (the start of the DC Points program), weeks which are normally ineligible for points enrollment, to be enrolled if the owner purchases at least 3000 DC Trust points at standard $10-$12 discounted prices. If those resale weeks are point-rich weeks like Hawaii, Aruba, summer beach weeks, etc., the average net cost of the points added (the new trust points plus the enrolled points) can result in a very attractive cost per point, often below $6/point. For an owner who wants his/her resale weeks to be able to play in the points system, this can be very attractive.

So, there are a very few restrictive cases where a developer purchase could make sense for an owner who wants to fully participate in the DC Points program.

I noticed that resale points still costs upwards of 10K for say 2500 DC points. MVC has made sure that buying resale hurts the buyer unless they pay up. It’s why I prefer mandatory resorts in the Vistana network. Granted there aren’t as many resorts but the resorts that VSE does have are pretty spectacular. I can’t see myself worrying about booking in MVC, I’d rather just deposit and exchange for other resorts. I’d rather have 30K in my bank account than have it tied up with Marriott. You spend tHat much do they at least give to platinum elite status?
 
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