Interesting Sales Presentation

[wuv pooh]

Received $100 in AMEX card plus a cup of coffee for 45 minutes of my time, so no complaints. Heard a few things that were new to me. So I thought I would lay them out for Tuggers:

1. II has been sued by upset owners and when the settlement takes place on July 15th this year that they will no longer be able to offer 2bd for a 1bd so you should deposit what you need. Have not heard this one.

2. Enrolled owners who convert to points still exchange through II. It is just the Marriott desk at II and a different currency but they have no access to the Trust points with Legacy points.

3. If you own Trust points then you become part of the "reservation" system of the trust. You can directly access any trust property with all your points, including enrolled points. The only caveat is that each transaction must contain at least 10% of Trust points. To make a 3,000 point reservation you have to use at least 300 actual trust points. This is the only "true" Marriott system and will be the system going forward. If you do not have deeded trust points you will never be able to use this system, even if you convert weeks to points.

4. The two higher levels, premier ?? and premier plus are fixed forever. Premier will always be 6,500 points or they will be accused of fraud. I told him I think this is wrong because it was based on a % of owners and would change as the ownership changes, but he was adamant that it would never change.

5. New resorts coming in New York City and Puerto Rico.

Just some new thoughts to the discussion

 

[sparty]

Received $100 in AMEX card plus a cup of coffee for 45 minutes of my time, so no complaints. Heard a few things that were new to me. So I thought I would lay them out for Tuggers:

1. II has been sued by upset owners and when the settlement takes place on July 15th this year that they will no longer be able to offer 2bd for a 1bd so you should deposit what you need. Have not heard this one.

5. New resorts coming in New York City and Puerto Rico.

Just some new thoughts to the discussion

On point #1 - Yes it's been told many times, very consistent message from Marriott. Marriott does feel the II system was "gamed" in this way, especially off season 1 bdrm to platinum season 2 bdrm.

On point #5 - They didn't say when..I don't see how they can do this given the investor statements they have made stating they have plenty of inventory and no new construction is planned. I recommended to Marriott they build in those two locations but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

 

[dougp26364]

Where his lips moving?

I've seen nothing posted on TUG or TS4M's about any comment of law suit's in the trades involving I.I. so, I go back to, where his lips moving?

About the only thing I do believe is that I.I. is running the trust point exchange. It would be to expensive for Marriott to higher all it's own employee's and set up it's on division to handle exchanges. It would be considerably cheaper to higher it done by Interval.

At any rate, come July 15th we'll see what happens with exchanges. As it stands now you can't request a unit with greater private sleeping capacity than you relinquish. I don't see that anything is likely to change.

 

[LAX Mom]

Regarding #1:

II has a secret formula for exchanges and often a 1 bedroom is worth as much or more than a 2 bedroom. For example I'm sure a Ko'Olina 1 bedroom would have as much point value as a 2 bedroom Orlando.

So I don't think II will ever stay you can't exchange a 1 bedroom for a 2 bedroom. They might tighten up and make it more difficult, but it will still happen!

 

[dougp26364]

Regarding #1:

II has a secret formula for exchanges and often a 1 bedroom is worth as much or more than a 2 bedroom. For example I'm sure a Ko'Olina 1 bedroom would have as much point value as a 2 bedroom Orlando.

So I don't think II will ever stay you can't exchange a 1 bedroom for a 2 bedroom. They might tighten up and make it more difficult, but it will still happen!

Thinking about it a little more after this post, couldn't it be said Marriott's very own program, which has different point values for different resorts, could be in the same dire straights if this is true? If what the salesman says is fact, then Marriott could end up having to revamp it's program so that all one bedroom platinum units are worth the same value or, one bedroom for one bedroom.

It's one more reason I don't attend sales presentations anymore. I just don't tolerate the half truths and lies they tell in their attempt to convince me in 90 minutes (45 in this case) that I should drop another $15,000 to $50,000 with them.

 

[SueDonJ]

Good gravy. This is exactly the experience I'd use to call up an MVW executive office and ask for the idiot rep to be reprimanded in whatever way possible.

An II lawsuit settlement resulting in new terms that are going to be in effect on July 14th? I would think some TUGger somewhere would have heard something about this long before now if it's true.

All that about Trust and Legacy Points and the inventory they each can access? Geeeze, we've been trying to crack that code here on TUG since the DC was announced, and what your rep said - especially that 10% thing - is just a new variation of the same old song and dance. It's like they're cooking spaghetti and every day they time it just a little bit differently to see if what they throw out there will stick.

New resorts would be nice. No new construction has been announced, though, so we'll have to wait and see.

#4 is the one that stands out for me as the most ridiculous of all you heard - in fact, the sales rep couldn't be any MORE wrong (and you couldn't be any more correct, wuv pooh) on that one!

Premier and Premier Plus status in the Destination Club is defined as a percentage of the aggregate total of all DC Points - Premier is the top 20% with Premier Plus being the top 5%. Marriott mentions in several places in the DC governing docs as well as in the online and printed promotional materials that the numbers set at the DC inception (6,500-12,999 and 13,000+, respectively) can change and will change when the points-sold percentages support it. There isn't any mention anywhere of status grandfathering for any members when such changes are implemented. Here's the related language from page 10 of the "Program Exchange Procedures" document on my-vacationclub.com:

... The number of Exchange Points or other criteria required to render a Member eligible to become a Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner may be revised by Exchange Company from time to time and Exchange Company reserves the right to eliminate or add any ownership recognition levels or benefits and privileges as Exchange Company may determine in its sole discretion. In the event the minimum number of Exchange Points required to maintain Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner eligibility is raised above the number of Exchange Points allocated to a Member’s Interests at any given time, the Member will be entitled to enjoy the benefits and privileges afforded to Premier Owners or Premier Plus Owners, as applicable, until the end of the calendar year following that in which the Member no longer meets the respective Premier Owner or Premier Plus Owner eligibility requirements. ...

Here are the definitions of Premier and Premier Plus Owners from page 18 of that same document (bolding mine):

Premier Owner means a Member who, together with other Premier Owners, shall represent the largest holdings of Exchange Points, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion, that collectively represent no more than twenty percent (20%) of the aggregate of all Exchange Points that are held by all Members. For the purpose of determining Premier Owner status, Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. Initially, and until Exchange Company has determined that a sufficient base of ownership has been established which permits Exchange Company to perform more meaningful calculations based on tiers of actual ownership, it is anticipated that a holding of 6,500 Exchange Points shall qualify a Member for Premier Membership. Exchange Company shall have the reserved right to add further qualification criteria from time to time such as, for example, qualifying status based on the manner in which and from whom Exchange Points were acquired. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes a Premier Owner based on criteria and conditions set forth in this definition, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion.

Premier Plus Owner means a Member who, together with all other Premier Plus Owners, shall represent the largest holdings of Exchange Points, as determined by Exchange Company in its sole discretion, that collectively represent no more than five percent (5%) of the aggregate of all Exchange Points that are held by all Members. For the purpose of determining Premier Plus Owner status, Members shall be deemed to hold all Exchange Points related to Interests that are titled in their name, either independently or as a named titleholder among a group of titleholders, which are enrolled with Exchange Company if required to do so. Initially, and until Exchange Company has determined that a sufficient base of ownership has been established which permits Exchange Company to perform more meaningful calculations based on tiers of actual ownership, it is anticipated that a holding of 13,000 Exchange Points shall qualify a Premier Owner for Premier Plus status. Exchange Company shall have the right to determine who constitutes a Premier Plus Owner based on the criteria and conditions set forth in this definition, all of which shall remain subject to modification by Exchange Company from time to time in its sole discretion.

And, here's the my-vacationclub.com version of that handy chart detailing Standard/Premier/Premier Plus ownership status, with this notation on the bottom:

... Pursuant to Exchange Procedures, offers, benefits and eligibility criteria to be a Premier or Premier Plus owner are subject to change.

 

[rpk113]

regarding point #1

so the used car salesman basically said..

if you own a 1 bedroom, you'll never have access to resorts that only have two bedroms..

Now that smells like a lawsuit...

 

[dioxide45]

Whew, those were some doozies. I think if some of these come up at our next presentation, if there is one, I will respond with "you sure are telling some zingers today".

 

[SueDonJ]

Whew, those were some doozies. I think if some of these come up at our next presentation, if there is one, I will respond with "you sure are telling some zingers today".

I'm planning on taking my laptop to any and every presentation we decide to do from now until forever! That way if we're unlucky enough to get one of these most uninformed reps, I'll be able to show him/her just exactly how uninformed s/he is.

I'll admit, for most of the presentations that are related on TUG I can usually find some benefit of the doubt for the rep, some way of thinking that shows me there could be a possibility that the rep isn't totally clueless but might just be confused. This one, though, it's just a ridiculous hot mess all around. No excuse.