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Incidents on planes are tense, but 'pajama pants' ?

tombo said:
The entire thread is about them removing someone because he wouldn't pull his pants up on a plane and so he violated their dress code. You ignore this point so every post you have made is invalid.
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This entire thread is about the rediculousness behind someone being judged and taken off of a plane because some flight attendent didn't like the way they looked or dressed...You can twist it any way you want...But in the end...thats what its about...People being denied service because of how they look...you seem to be fine with that....but i NEVER will be...

maybe we should just agree to disagree?
 
Ridewithme38 said:
...But in the end...thats what its about...People being denied service because of how they look...you seem to be fine with that....but i NEVER will be...

maybe we should just agree to disagree?
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Not OK to remove someone for how they look. How you look to some extent is beyond your control (race, sex, attractiveness, height, weight,etc).

It is great that they remove people who dress inapropriatelly as deemed by the airlines and the majority of the public.. The person dressed themselves in a manner that was unacceptable to the airlines and to many passengers. They have the choice to dress or not dress that way. The airlines has the right to refuse them service based on their attire. Perhaps Greyhound has a more liberal dress code or else they can rent a car and drive themselves to their destination. Or even easier they can simply pull their pants up and fly to where they want to go.

Several years ago I was with the family at 6 flags magic mountain and a group of guys was in line in front of me with their pants sagging and underwear showing. I told them to pull their pants up because my family didn't come to a theme park to see their drawers. One of them said it was the style. I said pull up your pants right now, I am not going to ask you again. I got dirty looks from the teenagers and embarassed looks from my kids, but several people in line applauded as they pulled up their pants.

If I had seen you at Magic mountain or Coney Island with your underwear showing in front of my family I would have told you to pull up your pants too. We will have to forever disagree on this one.
 
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Entitlement mentality. Everyone should have a "right" to say, do, act, dress, fill in the blank, anywhwere, anytime. The problem with this type of thinking is that it violates the premise of societal norms, and what the majority believe is conduct that is acceptable to most. Where do you draw the line? Or should there simply be no line, or limits to what people can do, say, or act like in a civilized society? I can't help but smell a degree of hypocrisy in this thinking, because my experience has been, its fine until it affects that person. Should a person be able to board a flight wearing a profane t shirt? Why? How about one that says *I'm going to CUT the person next to me* and then they take the seat next to you, or your child. You wouldn't have any problem with that either, right? :rolleyes:
 
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Phydeaux said:
Entitlement mentality. Everyone should have a "right" to say, do, act, dress, fill in the blank, anywhwere, anytime. The problem with this type of thinking is that it violates the premise of societal norms, and what the majority believe is conduct that is acceptable to most. Where do you draw the line? Or should there simply be no line, or limits to what people can do, say, or act like in a civilized society? I can't help but smell a degree of hypocrisy in this thinking, because my experience has been, its fine until it affects that person. Should a person be able to board a flight wearing a profane t shirt? Why? How about one that says *I'm going to CUT the person next to me" And then they take the.seat next to you. You wouldn't have any problem with that either, right?:rolleyes:
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I don't have a problem with that...of course there are certain situations where certain outfits are inappropriate...at work you dress like a professional...if your not out working...you should absolutly be able to express yourself with your clothing
 
Ridewithme38 said:
I don't have a problem with that...of course there are certain situations where certain outfits are inappropriate...at work you dress like a professional...if your not out working...you should absolutly be able to express yourself with your clothing
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Really? So a passenger on a flight should be allowed to express themselves wearing a t shirt that says *I'm a terrorist, and this flight is DOOMED*

Outside of "work", anything goes? Really?

That's ridiculous.
 
Phydeaux said:
Really? So a passenger on a flight should be allowed to express themselves wearing a t shirt that says *I'm a terrorist, and this flight is DOOMED*

Outside of "work", anything goes? Really?

That's ridiculous.
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A shirt is a shirt...if the title on a book cover says "This is a TV" does that make it so?? Not so much anything goes...we have decency laws that make alot of sense in america, some are a bit extreme but most of the time they're fairly good...obviously you shouldn't be walking around a school yard in the buff but does it really matter what a shirt says as long as it covers the no-no parts?

Meh, sometimes i'm too liberal?
 
Ridewithme38 said:
A shirt is a shirt...if the title on a book cover says "This is a TV" does that make it so?? Not so much anything goes...we have decency laws that make alot of sense in america, some are a bit extreme...obviously you shouldn't be walking around a school yard in the buff but does it really matter what a shirt says as long as it covers the no-no parts?Meh, sometimes i'm too liberal?
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Simple answer. Yes. And I'd be willing to bet you would agree if/ when it affects you.
 
Recently on TUG, someone registered a user name that was something like, "I stalk little girls." Needles to say, the name was banned.

Ride - If you are boarding a plane and a guy wearing a T-shirt that says "I stalk little girls," with a picture of J.C. Dugard on it, is going to sit next to YOUR little girl, are you OK with it? I mean - it's "just" a T-shirt....
 
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Patri said:
I doubt anyone is offended by this except you. Call back in 20 or 30 years when you are one of them.
. . .
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:hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical: :hysterical:

Note that my 92 year old father in law and 75 year old mother in law are ALWAYS well dressed; he usually in a suit and tie, she in a dress or suit and low heels. At their most casual, for gardening, they might be wearing khakis and polo shirts with sneakers and socks.
 
Driving down the road today, I noticed a guy with hair half-way down his back and the bald spot on the top of his head. He also had a full beard about 6 inches long. How gross looking to me!

Rule should be big bald spot mandates short hair (above ears) and no facial hair. Then I would never have offended or noticed his poor taste in attire and his pastie white bald spot.
 
Ridewithme38 said:
This entire thread is about the rediculousness behind someone being judged and taken off of a plane because some flight attendent didn't like the way they looked or dressed.
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The way he looked was not what got him in trouble. He could have easily corrected the situation. When confronted by the flight crew he failed to obey their instructions, and that's against the law.

The safety of flight is the primary objective of the crew. If there are unruly, non-compliant passengers who will not follow instructions, that could become a real problem in the event of an emergency. Seemingly unimportant issues can escalate into big issues, as was the case for this young man.

The captain is in charge of the flight and the people onboard. If there's a problem passenger, that person will most likely be removed so that the plane can continue safely to the destination without distractions. When my husband was an airline captain he had a few instances where police were called and/or unruly passengers were removed. He refused to fly the plane with passengers like that onboard, and the majority of the rest of the passengers and all of the crew members appreciated that.
 
Karen G said:
The way he looked was not what got him in trouble. He could have easily corrected the situation. When confronted by the flight crew he failed to obey their instructions, and that's against the law.

The safety of flight is the primary objective of the crew. If there are unruly, non-compliant passengers who will not follow instructions, that could become a real problem in the event of an emergency. Seemingly unimportant issues can escalate into big issues, as was the case for this young man.

The captain is in charge of the flight and the people onboard. If there's a problem passenger, that person will most likely be removed so that the plane can continue safely to the destination without distractions. When my husband was an airline captain he had a few instances where police were called and/or unruly passengers were removed. He refused to fly the plane with passengers like that onboard, and the majority of the rest of the passengers and all of the crew members appreciated that.
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I'm sorry but if the request is unreasonable, i'm not going to comply...i understand when the safety of the crew and passengers is an issue, he should definatly get the boot if not listening or complying then....But because his pants were too low?? Thats just unreasonable and rediculous...there is no doubt it was 100% because of the way he looked...they saw a big tough looking guy(college football player) with baggy clothes on and made assumptions about him and started attacking him and his choice in clothing...some flight attendant decided to give him a hard time because of it....he was nothing but polite and they still threw him off the flight....God help him if he was wearing an islamic religious outfit...he would have been 'randomly checked' a dozen times before he got on

You have no idea how many times i've seen girls on planes wearing just A-shirts undershirts and those little shorts with 'juicy' printed on the back...yet nothing is said to them...those shorts are shorter then any PJ pants or shorts he was wearing under his jeans....he was singled out specificly because of how he looked
 
Ridewithme38 said:
I'm sorry but if the request is unreasonable, i'm not going to comply..
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SERIOUSLY? You would take it to the point of being arrested to defend your right to sag? What if you daughter was with you?

You have no idea how many times i've seen girls on planes wearing just A-shirts undershirts and those little shorts with 'juicy' printed on the back...yet nothing is said to them...those shorts are shorter then any PJ pants or shorts he was wearing under his jeans....he was singled out specificly because of how he looked
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Not true - a young San Diego woman was removed from a South West flight for being attired that way. The really ironic thing was that she was a Hooters waitress and she was flying to AZ for a visit with her breast implants Dr.! Reports said that her skirt was so short that when she sat down it did not cover things it should cover. In pictures, her skirt appeared to be about 8 in. long from waist band to hem.
 
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DeniseM said:
Not true - a young San Diego woman was removed from a South West flight for being attired that way. The really ironic thing was that she was a Hooters waitress and she was flying to AZ for a visit with her breast implants Dr.!
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I didn't know about the girl from hooters...that changes alot of what i've said in this thread :eek:

DeniseM said:
SERIOUSLY? You would take it to the point of being arrested to defend your right to sag? What if you daughter was with you?
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I hope to raise my daughter to be as free thinking and aware of her rights as my parents raised me to be...Authority only has the rights they are limited to by law...If they overstep it is everyones job to make sure they know they are going beyond what they are legally able to do and to refuse to comply to unreasonable and illegal demands by them...if we make assumptions that any professional is above us simply because they hold a badge or a MD(even with my mother being in the medical field..i don't trust doctors to know more then i do)...we are accepting that that some people have less worth then others...i was always taught that Everyone is equal and deserves equal respect
 
Ride,

In an airplane, I do believe you would comply. Your intelligence would force you to realize there are better ways to handle this situation than refusing to comply.

As one liberal (way older than you by the way) to another, there are so many better ways to protest inappropriate use of power.
 
geoand said:
Ride,

In an airplane, I do believe you would comply. Your intelligence would force you to realize there are better ways to handle this situation than refusing to comply.

As one liberal (way older than you by the way) to another, there are so many better ways to protest inappropriate use of power.
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You know your right...you never really know what you're going to do in that type situation till it happens to you...It probly would have been best for him to just pull um up and file a report with that Stewardess' manager or someone in management with the airline after the flight was over...From what i saw of the video(his broken english) and what i know of college football players....he may not be as smart as you or I
 
Ridewithme38 said:
they saw a big tough looking guy(college football player) with baggy clothes on and made assumptions about him and started attacking him and his choice in clothing
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You are criticizing the flight crew and judging them because you think you can read their mind and you think you know what motivates their actions.

Again, it's all a matter of flight safety. A crew member has to be very observant and very wary of anything that appears out of the ordinary. What if the guy with the baggy pants is concealing something like an explosive device or what if he's mentally unbalanced and might cause trouble once the plane is in the air? There are a lot of "what-ifs" to consider and the crew has to make quick decisions all the time for the safety of everyone on the plane.

If the young man can't follow the simple request such as "pull up your pants," how do you know he would follow any other requests that might have to be made throughout the flight.
 
Ride, perhaps the hole you're digging yourself into would become a bit less deep if you defended your own argument. Would you or wouldn't you mind a stranger to sit next to your young daughter if they were wearing the "I'llm a child molester " shirt?

"rediculous" indeed.
 
Phydeaux said:
Ride, perhaps the hole you're digging yourself into would become a bit less deep if you defended your own argument. Would you or wouldn't you mind a stranger to sit next to your young daughter if they were wearing the "I'llm a child molester " shirt?

"rediculous" indeed.
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i love my spelling of rediculous! I think you'll find it fits my posting style very well once you get to know me

Now onto your question...I don't really believe that an Actual Child molester would wear a shirt that said 'i'm a child molester' no more then i believe everyone wearing a cross believes god created the world in seven days....But what it would make me do is keep a better eye on that person(in both cases)...


Now do i believe that we should make it illegal to wear shirts like that? Absolutely not! The freedom of expression and freedom of speech aren't just limited to please and thank you...they allow people to express their thoughts and beliefs even if those beliefs are controversial to some....I'm against school uniforms also...it restricts a childs ability to express themselves and learn to be an individual...some of the greatest things a child can learn in school isn't what is taught in the outdated misinformed textbooks, but in the social interactions that come because of who they are and how they dress

I think some of the suggestions here could very well end with a National Dress Code, Fashion Police Rooming the streets making sure your shirt is ironed and socks are regulation length...i don't want to live in a nation where there is no individuality and its not worth risking that freedom because i see a person dressed in a way i don't like
 
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Ride - I hope your ex-wife doesn't read TUG. Some of the comments you have made about choices you would make when you daughter is in your custody could impact your visitation rights. Seriously, I have a family law attorney speak to my class every year and she routinely prints out parent's posts from the internet to bring before the judge in visitation/custody hearings as documentation of poor judgment or other parental shortcomings.

I don't think you really mean it, but if you are away from home with your daughter on vacation, and you get arrested on the plane, what do you think would happen to your daughter? I can tell you - Social Services would take her into custody until her mother could get there. Would you REALLY put your little girl through that to prove a point?

I certainly HOPE that your daughter's well-being comes before anything else!
 
Ridewithme38 said:
i love my spelling of rediculous! I think you'll find it fits my posting style very well once you get to know me

Now onto your question...I don't really believe that an Actual Child molester would wear a shirt that said 'i'm a child molester' no more then i believe everyone wearing a cross believes god created the world in seven days....But what it would make me do is keep a better eye on that person(in both cases)...


Now do i believe that we should make it illegal to wear shirts like that? Absolutely not! The freedom of expression and freedom of speech aren't just limited to please and thank you...they allow people to express their thoughts and beliefs even if those beliefs are controversial to some....I'm against school uniforms also...it restricts a childs ability to express themselves and learn to be an individual...some of the greatest things a child can learn in school isn't what is taught in the outdated misinformed textbooks, but in the social interactions that come because of who they are and how they dress

I think some of the suggestions here could very well end with a National Dress Code, Fashion Police Rooming the streets making sure your shirt is ironed and socks are regulation length...i don't want to live in a nation where there is no individuality and its not worth risking that freedom because i see a person dressed in a way i don't like
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You're free to leave, anytime.
 
DeniseM said:
I don't think you really mean it, but if you are away from home with your daughter on vacation, and you get arrested on the plane, what do you think would happen to your daughter? I can tell you - Social Services would take her into custody until her mother could get there. Would you REALLY put your little girl through that to prove a point?

I certainly HOPE that your daughter's well-being comes before anything else!
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Police are very hesitant to arrest people like me...while my spelling is a bit off when typing online...i'm educated, come from well off stock, well versed in what is and isn't illegal, am completely non-violent and really able to act more interested then controversal while dealing with 'authority figures'...its important to always phrase things as questions when dealing with the police and sound interested in what they are saying, never correct them but make statements like 'really? I thought it was ....?' or 'Huh, where is that posted?'
 
Don't worry after spending 5.5 years on long island for university and living there for a few more it is safe to say that Long Islanders would be the first to disagree about something but also the first to comply with authority.

If I remember correctly the hooters girl just had to adjust her outfit and was fine to fly. The same day she flew again with the same outfit and had no problems. Her attire complied with Southwest's dress code or lack of it.

Would it have made a differences if the man was only wearing his boxers with underwear underneath? Different circumstances changes everything.

I would have thrown him off the plane as well as he had the ability to correct it and as far as I know did not.

Regarding what is deemed acceptable or not is decided on the people in power which are always biased.
 
am1 said:
Regarding what is deemed acceptable or not is decided on the people in power which are always biased.
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The problem as i see it...is that the consumer and the voter...are the ones in power...but they don't realize it...Because one flight attendent decided she didn't like how this consumer was dressed and looked because of it he was thrown off the plane...IF the other passengers on the plane realized that by standing up and saying something they could have stopped this injustice i'm sure they would have, no one under 35-40(the majority of America) finds saggy pants offensive, we grew up watching all our idles dressing like that...but the problem is that we are taught all through school to not question 'authority' and we are told that the 'authorities' are those with badges and/or uniforms when thats just not accurate...in fact each one of us is the authority
 
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