I just booked a trip !

[MrockStar]

I hope [Gov] Whitmer is not monitoring TUG! Speaking of MI, my daughter's beloved summer camp in MI just announced they are cancelling weeks 1&2. They will determine the rest of the weeks by 5/15. I absolutely cannot understand why summer camp is not an acceptable activity. Camp is OPTIONAL unlike school. If you don't want your kid to go, then don't send them! Kids have VERY low risk and the staff is young , healthy adults. It's a no brainer to me. And God knows, these kids could really use some camp after what they have been through.

Yup, its a bummer. Rent a cabin up here at Houghton lake and make you own version of summer . Best wishes.

 

[DaveNV]

Thank you all for your great ideas, suggestions, enthusiasm. There are a lot of wonderful people in this group. This little trip has given me something to look forward to and a new interest in some history that I had long forgotten learning about. XOXOXO

Go, and have fun. Just be sure to report back, so we can share with you.

I've been to the Black Hills several times, including a three-week stay in a motorhome in the late 90s. You'll have some fun, no matter how it works out.

Dave

 

[StapelmanMO]

Drive by the Crazy Horse monument. Pretty awesome view too, if you have a long lens camera and stop down on the road. (Kind of a ripoff to pay to go in, if it's open.)
East of Rapid City is Badlands National Park, another awesome place, if you want to take a side trip off the freeway.

We have to respectively disagree with not paying to go into this monument. If it is open by all means go in. They have a tram tour, museum and you can take home rocks that came off the mountain they are carving. The modest fee you pay is paying for the full development of the monument over several generations. The natives have not accepted one penny in state or federal funds to build it, likely lengthening the completion time. Mt. Rushmore was funded by the government. Beautiful part of the country to social distance from during the Spring and Summer. Be sure to bring apples or plums (not), maybe carrots to feed the donkeys in Custer State Park. Watch out for the mountain goats in the Needles. You cannot avoid the antelopes. Cross your fingers to see if Wall Drugs is open, they still have automated puppets running that I saw there over 58 years ago, they just do not run them as often.

 

[DaveNV]

We have to respectively disagree with not paying to go into this monument. If it is open by all means go in. They have a tram tour, museum and you can take home rocks that came off the mountain they are carving. The modest fee you pay is paying for the full development of the monument over several generations. The natives have not accepted one penny in state or federal funds to build it, likely lengthening the completion time.

My opinion: It may be less of a money-grab than it used to be, but they've been working on this for decades, with little change to the profile. I used to work for the company that donated the blasting equipment they use, so their costs for that part of things is essentially nothing. If they were truly interested in completing things, they'd have been done with it many years ago. But as long as they continue to rake in money from tourists by the carload, by donations, and from other public support, there is little incentive to ever complete the sculpture. It's quite a cash cow. Not saying it's not a great sculpture, and isn't worth doing. I'm just saying the enterprise seems to be more about taking in money than in honoring their ancestor.

Dave

 

[MULTIZ321]

Fellow IL here and exactly my reaction to the Pritzker's (and the rest of the elites who keep getting caught out where they have told us not to go). Looking at the Dakotas and because I want to 'knock out' a couple of other states I've not been to, maybe over to the E corner of Montana and 'top' of Nebraska. Had hoped to fly to Rapid City and drive from there, as it is a lot of mileage to cover. Concerned about where I'll find available bathrooms! Good luck on the 'break out.'

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[rapmarks]

The tour I took was called the Discovery tour. If you are only there for a weekend,in would do that. I wrote a very long review July 2008. I think you should read the section where I described sightseeing.

 

[CalGalTraveler]

I hope Comrade Whitmer is not monitoring TUG! Speaking of MI, my daughter's beloved summer camp in MI just announced they are cancelling weeks 1&2. They will determine the rest of the weeks by 5/15. I absolutely cannot understand why summer camp is not an acceptable activity. Camp is OPTIONAL unlike school. If you don't want your kid to go, then don't send them! Kids have VERY low risk and the staff is young , healthy adults. It's a no brainer to me. And God knows, these kids could really use some camp after what they have been through.

There are several concerns:

1) Camps are close quarters with shared bathrooms similar to jails, and meat packing plants which have been hot spots for the disease. The kids, and their parents transporting them, could unknowingly spread disease to the rest of their family and the community. It puts unnecessary pressure on healthcare systems and healthcare workers who are already overburdened.
2) If it is like most camps, the teen staff will clean the bathrooms, wash the camp dishes and facilities with new camp attendees arriving every week. Do the math on how many potentially infected people the counselors are exposed to even if they don't clean the bathrooms or wash dishes.
3) It will be difficult if not impossible for young kids and teens to socially distance and to keep masks on.
4) The camp could tarnish their reputation if kids get sick with Covid19. If a significant number of campers become ill, they could be easily overwhelmed especially if the kids are not local and the parents can't come immediately to pick them up.
5) They could also be sued by angry parents if their child becomes ill with Covid19, or brings it home endangering others.

 

[Cornell]

There are several concerns:

1) Camps are close quarters with shared bathrooms similar to jails, and meat packing plants which have been hot spots for the disease. The kids, and their parents transporting them, could unknowingly spread disease to the rest of their family and the community. It puts unnecessary pressure on healthcare systems and healthcare workers who are already overburdened.
2) If it is like most camps, the teen staff will clean the bathrooms, wash the camp dishes and facilities with new camp attendees arriving every week. Do the math on how many potentially infected people the counselors are exposed to even if they don't clean the bathrooms or wash dishes.
3) It will be difficult if not impossible for young kids and teens to socially distance and to keep masks on.
4) The camp could tarnish their reputation if kids get sick with Covid19. If a significant number of campers become ill, they might be easily overwhelmed especially if the kids are not local and the parents can't come immediately to pick them up.
5) They could also be sued by angry parents if their child becomes ill with Covid19, or brings it home endangering others.

I just see this in a completely different light than you do. Kids can afford to get sick with this. There is a virtually 0% hospitalization rate for children of COVID, much less death. Kids who have things like asthma, etc don't go to camp! And the way you are describing kids getting sick makes it sound like they will overwhelming the camp or the local hospital system -- I don't see that occurring at all. If kids develop a fever , then call is placed to mom and dad to pick them up. Angry parents? Again, this is a known risk. Parents can accept this when they choose to send their kids. Are we just going to keep children locked up forever? That's just crazy.

My daughter's camp had an outbreak of norovirus a few years ago -- super contagious. TONS of sick campers. The camp managed. We all survived.

 

[Brett]

I hope [Gov.] Whitmer is not monitoring TUG! Speaking of MI, my daughter's beloved summer camp in MI just announced they are cancelling weeks 1&2. They will determine the rest of the weeks by 5/15. I absolutely cannot understand why summer camp is not an acceptable activity. Camp is OPTIONAL unlike school. If you don't want your kid to go, then don't send them! Kids have VERY low risk and the staff is young , healthy adults. It's a no brainer to me. And God knows, these kids could really use some camp after what they have been through.

[deleted] Whitmer ! - (potential running mate
The [deleted] Gretchen Whitmer is cancelling your daughter's May summer camp ... so sad

Open up Michigan !
it's crazy XOXOXO

 

[DeniseM]

I absolutely cannot understand why summer camp is not an acceptable activity.

Whether it's safe or not is a matter of opinion, but I'm sure the camp is cancelling because of their liabiity. If they end up with a staff member who infects campers, the lawsuits would be on fire.

*** TUGGERS: Stick to the topic, or you will be sent home from Camp TUG. No political comments, please!

 

[Cornell]

Whether it's safe or not is a matter of opinion, but I'm sure the camp is cancelling because of their liabiity. If they end up with a staff member who infects campers, the lawsuits would be on fire.

*** TUGGERS: Stick to the topic, or you will be sent home from Camp TUG. No political comments, please!

So any activity where coronavirus can be potentially spread will be cancelled from here on out out bc of liability ?

 

[CalGalTraveler]

@Cornell It's low but it is not 0. Just tell that story to the parents of the first responders in Michigan (no less) who's healthy 5 year old died of Covid:

5-year-old daughter of first responders dies from COVID-19 complications

This is heartbreaking. 💔 Skylar dreamed of becoming a pediatric dentist and loved to dress up as a princess.

6abc.com

Plus, to your point, those sick kids will infect their parents that pick them up, the camp adults and doctors attending to them, and potentially spread to people who will die in the community. Seems like a high cost just to enable kids to go have some fun at camp, don't you think?

 

[Cornell]

The child that died in MI also had meningitis .

 

[dago]

The child that died in MI also had meningitis .

View attachment 20009

You guys are not listening to Denise

 

[TravelTime]

We are flying in / out of Rapid City!

Are you flying? Are airlines operating? I thought it was a road trip.

 

[Cornell]

You guys are not listening to Denise

Then she can lock the thread.

 

[Cornell]

Are you flying? Are airlines operating? I thought it was a road trip.

We are flying to Rapid City

 

[CalGalTraveler]

She developed meningitis as a complication of Covid. She was healthy before being diagnosed. Statistics don't matter if it is your loved one that dies. In addition some children are developing rare diseases which will impact them for a lifetime:

WHO warns some children develop 'severe' or 'critical' disease from coronavirus

Nearly 6% of the children's cases were severe or critical, compared with 18.5% for adults, according to the new study.

www.cnbc.com

But why is this only about the kids and their risk? Why doesn't it matter that the adults in camp and parents could become infected? Aren't you concerned about her bringing it home to you after being exposed all summer to several hundred people?

 

[TravelTime]

We are flying to Rapid City

Interesting. What airline? I will be interested to hear about your plane ride and what covid procedures they put in place. United just sent out an email that they are blocking middle seats and doing a bunch of other things.

 

[Cornell]

@TravelTime I’m on AA. It’s a regional jet. 2 x 2 seating config. Looking at the seat plan it looks like you can book adjacent seats. Who knows? I’ll report back

 

[mjm1]

My DW had Mount Rushmore on her bucket list, so we took a road trip last June from Las Vegas that went at far as The Badlands and Mount Rushmore. It was a great trip and we thoroughly enjoyed both of those sites. We also hit Deadwood and walked through the cemetery until it started to rain. Had a good casual lunch and then drove around the little town.

I suspect you and your daughter will enjoy your trip. Safe travels.

Best regards.

Mike

 

[klpca]

I hope [Gov.] Whitmer is not monitoring TUG! Speaking of MI, my daughter's beloved summer camp in MI just announced they are cancelling weeks 1&2. They will determine the rest of the weeks by 5/15. I absolutely cannot understand why summer camp is not an acceptable activity. Camp is OPTIONAL unlike school. If you don't want your kid to go, then don't send them! Kids have VERY low risk and the staff is young , healthy adults. It's a no brainer to me. And God knows, these kids could really use some camp after what they have been through.

[political word redacted]

My daughter is a year round camp director. This has been so hard on them, their staff, and of course the kids. There's talk of starting school back up in July - that will effectively kill camp for the summer. I hope that they have enough reserves to weather this storm. They have contingency plans for everything - fires, earthquakes, illnesses, but I am pretty sure that a pandemic was considered very low risk.

 

[Cornell]

My daughter is a year round camp director. This has been so hard on them, their staff, and of course the kids. There's talk of starting school back up in July - that will effectively kill camp for the summer. I hope that they have enough reserves to weather this storm. They have contingency plans for everything - fires, earthquakes, illnesses, but I am pretty sure that a pandemic was considered very low risk.

Yeah , I hope these camps can survive financially if there is zero camp this summer

 

[MrockStar]

[deleted] Whitmer ! - (potential running mate
The [deleted] Gretchen Whitmer is cancelling your daughter's May summer camp ... so sad

Open up Michigan !
it's crazy XOXOXO

At least one peninsula the upper one already.

 

[klpca]

I just see this in a completely different light than you do. Kids can afford to get sick with this. There is a virtually 0% hospitalization rate for children of COVID, much less death. Kids who have things like asthma, etc don't go to camp! And the way you are describing kids getting sick makes it sound like they will overwhelming the camp or the local hospital system -- I don't see that occurring at all. If kids develop a fever , then call is placed to mom and dad to pick them up. Angry parents? Again, this is a known risk. Parents can accept this when they choose to send their kids. Are we just going to keep children locked up forever? That's just crazy.

My daughter's camp had an outbreak of norovirus a few years ago -- super contagious. TONS of sick campers. The camp managed. We all survived.

While I don't disagree with you, behind the scenes at camp is a real eye opener. Parents send kids to camp with an amazing number of fairly serious illnesses - asthma is nothing, lol. You should see the leftover meds that are disposed after every summer (usually my job and it involves garbage bags full of meds that were left behind and not picked up). Maybe CalGal, you, and I have different perspectives because of where we live. California is a very litigious state, and parents have no issue signing waivers and then suing for exactly what the waiver covers. It is just the reality of the situation. I started sending my kids to camp in the 1990's, have staffed day camps, and my daughter has been working as first staff, then administration in "overnight camps" for over 10 years. 98% of the parents are wonderful. The other 2% make your life absolutely miserable. I don't know for sure, but I would not be surprised to hear that potential litigation is part of the decision making process. Parents always blame the camp 100% and accept no responsibility.

One of my "favorite" camp stories involves lice, which is unfortunately very common at camp. We had just finished a week long session (day camp) and I packed up my car and had just arrived home after 10+ hours, when my phone rang. It was the camp director informing me that a camper's mom had called to say that her daughter came home with lice. Ugh. It turns out that this kid's family had been in Hawaii the week prior. This kid told her unit leader that she had lice before they went to Hawaii but it came back during the trip. Let's talk about this folks - that kid flew home on an airplane with an active case of lice. Yuck. Next mom halfheartedly treated it, then sent her kid to camp. The unit leader picked this kid up every morning and brought her home every evening in her personal car, along with her own kids. On the last day mom fessed up about the lice. So from 7:00pm until about 9:00pm we had to call every parent and let them know that their kid had been exposed to lice. Nothing like getting yelled at by parent after parent after spending the past week at camp with their kid. I will never forget that as long as I live.