I believe Marriott will aggressively acquire weeks into Points Trust

[taffy19]

But you have to take into consideration all the new purchasers of points, who have NOTHING to deposit week-wise. MVC needs to already have good inventory to satisfy these new members. Imagine a new customer paying upwards of $60,000+ worth in points (that's what a week in a 2-BD Maui or Ko Olina ocean view requires in points during high season) and NOT have easy-to-obtain inventory. He will be one unhappy new customer.

Exactly, the writing is on the wall. If present owners are not signing up right away, Marriott may have to charge less rather than more in the future to enroll or give more incentives. They need the inventory at the sold out resorts in prime locations and certainly the platinum season. They don't seem to have that in their inventory, I believe. I wouldn't believe all the scare tactics that you hear at the presentations nor do I believe that people are signing up in droves.

 

[BocaBum99]

Enrolled deeded owners will not be depositing their weeks to II to receive club points. They will either be depositing their weeks to II or exchanging with Marriott for club points. Marriott can use the weeks that deeded owners are exchanging in for club points to fulfill point owner requests, but weeks deposited into II have to be exchanged for something comparable- whether it is Marirott making the request (to fulfill a point owner's request) or another week owner looking for a trade.

Theoretically, according to what Marirott reps have stated and as per the posting on II's website, Marriott will be exchanging like everyone else. Whether or not they put a finger on the scales, so to speak, or "cook the back end" remains to be seen. I think we'd be foolish not to have an element of suspicion but, at the same time, we can't condemn them for their potential ability to act unfairly when they have yet to demonstrate it. I'm guessing there will be lots of scrutiny there. IF Marriott is good at its own word, then trading in II via weeks should show little change in the coming months and years. Time will tell....

I agree. Giving Marriott the benefit of the doubt, I think they will conclude that owning the inventory in the Trust will be the best method of delivering availability to owners. My whole thesis relies on this assumption.

 

[BocaBum99]

For clarity, and I agree that the trust might and perhaps should operate in the best interest of its members with II, I meant that Marriott will cook the back end of the MVCI reservation system whereby they select out the prime weeks with their ownership and advantage of being the reservation system operator, at the expense of deeded weeks owners trying to reserve at their home resorts. I expanded upon that instinct elsewhere, so won't do it here.

Even with a ton of NCV points in the trust, I believe Marriott has a dearth of platinum weeks there, so will be watching that deeding activity closely. The county recorders office doesn't lie

I think there will be an extraordinary temptation to do so. However, I believe that Marriott will be at least somewhat restrained in dipping into that pot.

 

[BocaBum99]

What recording activity will there be to see? I think now that all deeds are conveyed to the land trust, all those deeds for NVC should now be deeded over to the trust and recorded. Now going forward it would seem that all deeds for points will be recorded in Orange County Florida, all deeds will just show the number of points purchased. Much like how DVC deeds points.

Or are you suggesting that they didn't deed all NCV weeks to the trust? This has been shown to happen at other resorts with some resorts with unsold inventory not being conveyed at all.

I haven't seen the Trust documents yet. But, I have seen other Trust documents that are based on the Florida multi-site timeshare plan statute. If the Trust was incorporated in Florida, that is the statute it must follow.

In the case that I am most familiar, the deeds are recorded in the counties where the timeshare is located into the name of the Trust. Then, it's really just a database entry in a system to change ownership.

One of the things I haven't done yet is learned how those points will be conveyed. Will they be conveyed via a recorded deed such as a UDI? Or, just a right to use document? My guess is it will be a perpetual right to use contract of some type.

 

[dioxide45]

One of the things I haven't done yet is learned how those points will be conveyed. Will they be conveyed via a recorded deed such as a UDI? Or, just a right to use document? My guess is it will be a perpetual right to use contract of some type.

Marriott is still selling "deeded ownership". I remember seeing that on their website even after June 20. I believe in Florida a timeshare interest must be deeded. DVC is deeded, not RTU as many think.

In the counties where the resorts are located, the deeds were likely recorded to transfer the ownership to the trust. Marriott filed the trust agreement and notices in Orange Co Florida. All deed of points going forward will be recorded there I would suspect since that is where the land trust exists.

I have posted the trust document links in the forum, so they are there to see.

 

[BocaBum99]

Marriott is still selling "deeded ownership". I remember seeing that on their website even after June 20. I believe in Florida a timeshare interest must be deeded. DVC is deeded, not RTU as many think.

In the counties where the resorts are located, the deeds were likely recorded to transfer the ownership to the trust. Marriott filed the trust agreement and notices in Orange Co Florida. All deed of points going forward will be recorded there I would suspect since that is where the land trust exists.

I have posted the trust document links in the forum, so they are there to see.

Thanks. I'll check them out when I get a chance.

You do NOT need to have a deeded interest to sell a multi-site timeshare plan in Florida. The Bluegreen Vacation Club does NOT convey deeds as their points. Points are based on an underlying deed. But, the deed is recorded in the name of the Trust.

So, how do they convey a deed which is not deeded at a specific resort? It's easy for DVC to do it because the deed just reads something like 500 of 2,345,545 Undivided Interest in XYZ Resort. Since there are a fixed number of units, they can easily do such a thing. How do you do that with a points Club with inventory that changes on a daily basis?

 

[camachinist]

Yes, I noted about 160 deeds recorded at the OC recorders office (California) to individual purchasers as well as to the Trust, between 6/20 and 6/29 ( I checked on July 5). There were grant deeds, trust deeds (financing) and recissions, as well as the deeds to the 'Trust'. I'll research and update my numbers tomorrow. As is usual, I cannot see any underlying data other than names, so will have to visit in person to see exactly what's been deeded.

When we bought at NCV, the stamp from the recorder's office indicated the document was recorded two days hence. Bought on Saturday, recorded on Monday. That would indicate to me that NCV is (or was) still selling deeded weeks after 6/20. Just another datapoint. Since NCV is one of the largest points contributors to the Trust, it'll be interesting to see where those weeks are coming from, season-wise.

 

[BocaBum99]

This discussion begs a question about how points combine. Let's say you purchase 1000 points and then later purchase another 3000 points. Do you have to sell each set of points separately?

WorldMark allows you to sell parts of the combined. Wyndham requires you to sell it based on contract.

 

[m61376]

camachinist- Although I believe the temptation will be there to grab that high demand week to fulfill the point request, Marriott has committed to only allocating the fair share of each available week to each inventory pool, based on the percent ownership of each pool. So theoretically since it was part of the weeks pool it should remain available for a weeks owner's reservation.

It would be interesting for someone who hasn't booked yet to frequently check the on-line reservation website and see if prime weeks pop back up. I know in the past arrival dates were fully booked (show as not available) and then there are cancellations so they reappear here and there. If we continue to see this pattern it would verify what I've been told.

 

[timeos2]

There is no property deeded to anyone other than Disney

Marriott is still selling "deeded ownership". I remember seeing that on their website even after June 20. I believe in Florida a timeshare interest must be deeded. DVC is deeded, not RTU as many think.
.

Actually it is a deeded RTU! They are not transferring any property rights but they are using a rather convoluted process to deed the 40+ years of use rights, basically your promise to pay fees, while they retain 100% control and ownership. What does confuse people is that deed which many mistakenly think means they "own" part of the rodent empire. They do not.

Pretty clever though as it makes it all sound like a regular old timeshare deeded sale like any other when in fact it is a carefully crafted, long term lease. You really have to admire Disney as they may be the very best at creating the illusion people want to believe from Main St USA to the selling of an otherwise tainted product like timeshare.

 

[BocaBum99]

Actually it is a deeded RTU! They are not transferring any property rights but they are using a rather convoluted process to deed the 40+ years of use rights, basically your promise to pay fees, while they retain 100% control and ownership. What does confuse people is that deed which many mistakenly think means they "own" part of the rodent empire. They do not.

Pretty clever though as it makes it all sound like a regular old timeshare deeded sale like any other when in fact it is a carefully crafted, long term lease. You really have to admire Disney as they may be the very best at creating the illusion people want to believe from Main St USA to the selling of an otherwise tainted product like timeshare.

Really? I thought it would simply be deeded as a leasehold instead of fee simple ownership.

 

[camachinist]

It would be interesting for someone who hasn't booked yet to frequently check the on-line reservation website and see if prime weeks pop back up.

Thanks. Good suggestion. I've still been unsuccessful with my plat NCV for 2011 summer so will add it to my load of trade tests done 3 times a day and will report any movements. I recently saw a June 2011 date pop back up on my calendar, last Friday I believe, while I was attempting to book NCV in July 2011, erroneously using the inventory release calendar as guidance (covered in another thread). I had never seen that happen in Platinum season as long as I've been an owner (6 years).

I'm checking right now.... OK, as a baseline, the only bookable date in Platinum season at NCV as of this post time is June 10, a decrease of one day. June 5 was there when I checked last Friday.

 

[MikeM132]

............which many mistakenly think means they "own" part of the rodent empire. They do not.

...............

Sorry, but "rodent empire" cracks me up! Thanks, too...I never figured out how that DVC thing actually worked. Not that I was concerned (as in other RTU timeshares I've toured like in the Poconos, where I was concerned the company would fold leaving me with a useless RTU).