Hyatt Vacation Club coming into Abound?

[daviator]

So I know this has been discussed before, but at my owner update this week, the sales guy, who was being generally truthful on everything else, swore up and down that the Hyatt timeshare properties were going to come into Abound in the third or fourth quarter of this year. He acknowledged that it was complicated because of the branding issues and the separate Hyatt frequent guest program which those owners (I assume) participate in.

I basically said “that would be great but I’m not holding my breath” but also agreed that MVC probably didn’t buy the Hyatt business without some plan to integrate it to the extent they are able to do so.

No idea how much truth there is to this, he agreed that there had not been any announcement and so the timing was not set in stone. But of course he had all the Hyatt properties up on the screen and was making a firm claim that we would soon have access.

So I throw it out there for what it’s worth, claims from sales people often not being worth much.

 

[vikingsholm]

So I know this has been discussed before, but at my owner update this week, the sales guy, who was being generally truthful on everything else, swore up and down that the Hyatt timeshare properties were going to come into Abound in the third or fourth quarter of this year. He acknowledged that it was complicated because of the branding issues and the separate Hyatt frequent guest program which those owners (I assume) participate in.

I basically said “that would be great but I’m not holding my breath” but also agreed that MVC probably didn’t buy the Hyatt business without some plan to integrate it to the extent they are able to do so.

No idea how much truth there is to this, he agreed that there had not been any announcement and so the timing was not set in stone. But of course he had all the Hyatt properties up on the screen and was making a firm claim that we would soon have access.

So I throw it out there for what it’s worth, claims from sales people often not being worth much.

I'd like to see them do something like the Wyndham Club Pass as it applies to Worldmark owners, if they can't fully integrate these.

Give Abound holders points access to Hyatt properties at 8 or 9 months out, if Hyatt owners get access at 12 months ahead of time to reserve. And vice versa for Hyatt owners wanting to reserve Marriott/Vistana/Sheraton using a points system.

 

[daviator]

I'd like to see them do something like the Wyndham Club Pass as it applies to Worldmark owners, if they can't fully integrate these.

Give Abound holders points access to Hyatt properties at 8 or 9 months out, if Hyatt owners get access at 12 months ahead of time to reserve. And vice versa for Hyatt owners wanting to reserve Marriott/Vistana/Sheraton using a points system.

Who knows what the mechanism will be but it may well be something like what you describe. I think they do need to walk a line between not disadvantaging Hyatt and Marriott owners by allowing a big new group of owners from a sister program to grab all their reservations, while still trying to provide access across the programs. Your suggestion seems pretty reasonable.

 

[Hindsite]

but also agreed that MVC probably didn’t buy the Hyatt business without some plan to integrate it to the extent they are able to do so.

MVC didn't buy Hyatt so they won't be driving any changes, they'll both just dance to the tune of the mothership..

Given this has been reported regularly as imminent for the last couple of years that I have noticed, I can't see why it would happen or how the Hyatt licencing issues would have been resolved.

You can use Abound club points, elected or trust, to book Hyatt properties now via II and Hyatt owners can book MVC also via II. Perhaps they will become available under Hotels as well. Whether the recent points devaluation in II for Hyatt owners is a positioning in prep for this we will see. There was a huge difference in value for using Hyatt ownership in II vs using club points. The value gap remains large, mainly due to the terrible value of using Abound Club points. Replicating that in Abound would go down terribly with Abound users.

Anything could happen...

 

[daviator]

MVC didn't buy Hyatt so they won't be driving any changes, they'll both just dance to the tune of the mothership..

Given this has been reported regularly as imminent for the last couple of years that I have noticed, I can't see why it would happen or how the Hyatt licencing issues would have been resolved.

You can use Abound club points, elected or trust, to book Hyatt properties now via II and Hyatt owners can book MVC also via II. Perhaps they will become available under Hotels as well. Whether the recent points devaluation in II for Hyatt owners is a positioning in prep for this we will see. There was a huge difference in value for using Hyatt ownership in II vs using club points. The value gap remains large, mainly due to the terrible value of using Abound Club points. Replicating that in Abound would go down terribly with Abound users.

Anything could happen...

I should have been more clear, but I thought it was obvious that I was talking about the Hyatt timeshare business (which MVC did buy) vs. Hyatt Hotels which remains separate. Sorry for any confusion.

 

[vikingsholm]

MVC didn't buy Hyatt so they won't be driving any changes, they'll both just dance to the tune of the mothership..

Given this has been reported regularly as imminent for the last couple of years that I have noticed, I can't see why it would happen or how the Hyatt licencing issues would have been resolved.

You can use Abound club points, elected or trust, to book Hyatt properties now via II and Hyatt owners can book MVC also via II. Perhaps they will become available under Hotels as well. Whether the recent points devaluation in II for Hyatt owners is a positioning in prep for this we will see. There was a huge difference in value for using Hyatt ownership in II vs using club points. The value gap remains large, mainly due to the terrible value of using Abound Club points. Replicating that in Abound would go down terribly with Abound users.

Anything could happen...

I'm only referring to timeshares in my comments as well.

It's also a matter of availability. My assumption is that a points focused program set up like I mentioned above would have much greater availability across the brands than what you find in II for week long trades.

But I don't use points in II, so am just going by the lack of what I see for week long trades into Hyatts within II. Does the current system allow you use Abound points to trade for Hyatt timeshares within II? If so, does that feature show any better availability for Hyatt timeshares using points within II than the weeks trades in II show?

 

[mjm1]

We attended a presentation today and the rep said they would be unavailing a new app through which Abound owners would be able to directly access Hyatt units. Of course no details were provided other than saying it could be later this year. Take it for what it is.

As a Hyatt owner in addition to Abound, if something like this is available I would hope the availability would be later than what Hyatt owners have access to. Hyatt owners can book their owned unit, or part of it, from 12 months to 6 months. At 6 months the owner can use their allotted points to reserve whatever is available in the system. Perhaps Abound owners could access available units at 4 or 5 months.

it will be interesting to see what if anything comes of this.

 

[VacationForever]

The only property that I am interested in booking is Hyatt Highlands Inn (Carmel). Everything else can be traded in II. So if it comes to fruition, I will have another use for my Abound points.

 

[ScoopKona]

The only property that I am interested in booking is Hyatt Highlands Inn (Carmel). Everything else can be traded in II. So if it comes to fruition, I will have another use for my Abound points.

Demand for Highlands will go off the chart. I'm glad I've gone there the past three years. Based on what Marriott is doing to the Hyatt system, I don't have much confidence in my ability to trade in if Abound happens.

 

[dsmrp]

I can see the HPP portfolio points program being able to interchange with Abound, not legacy HRC owners. I think the exchange rate for Hyatt properties would be absurdly high in Abound points.

 

[ScoopKona]

I can see the HPP portfolio points program being able to interchange with Abound, not legacy HRC owners. I think the exchange rate for Hyatt properties would be absurdly high in Abound points.

If Marriotts goal of "screw Hyatt legacy owners" is a thing, they'll make trading attractive for Abound and thus push even more legacy owners in the direction of "I'm done with this. See ya."

 

[cubigbird]

So I know this has been discussed before, but at my owner update this week, the sales guy, who was being generally truthful on everything else, swore up and down that the Hyatt timeshare properties were going to come into Abound in the third or fourth quarter of this year. He acknowledged that it was complicated because of the branding issues and the separate Hyatt frequent guest program which those owners (I assume) participate in.

I basically said “that would be great but I’m not holding my breath” but also agreed that MVC probably didn’t buy the Hyatt business without some plan to integrate it to the extent they are able to do so.

No idea how much truth there is to this, he agreed that there had not been any announcement and so the timing was not set in stone. But of course he had all the Hyatt properties up on the screen and was making a firm claim that we would soon have access.

So I throw it out there for what it’s worth, claims from sales people often not being worth much.

Sales lips were moving again.

 

[daviator]

If Marriotts goal of "screw Hyatt legacy owners" is a thing, they'll make trading attractive for Abound and thus push even more legacy owners in the direction of "I'm done with this. See ya."

Sounds like a great tactic to push Hyatt owners to buy into Abound in the same way they’ve done with Vistana, starting with “you need to have a hybrid ownership.” If the continue their playbook, they will push Hyatt owners to buy into Abound and gradually try to squeeze the ones who don’t do so. It remains to be seen whether Hyatt owners will take the bait.

 

[ScoopKona]

Sounds like a great tactic to push Hyatt owners to buy into Abound in the same way they’ve done with Vistana, starting with “you need to have a hybrid ownership.” If the continue their playbook, they will push Hyatt owners to buy into Abound and gradually try to squeeze the ones who don’t do so. It remains to be seen whether Hyatt owners will take the bait.

I am certain of at least one owner who will not. ;-)

Don't get me wrong, I've always maintained that my silly little timeshare week is the best toy I have ever purchased. I stand by that statement. But I wouldn't buy into such a system if I was buying today. And I certainly wouldn't go work for the company.

Why did I work for Hyatt? I met the broker at a bar. Skeptical of timeshares in general, I asked him to give the elevator pitch. I went to work for the company a few months later. (Had to obtain a real estate license.) Until January of this year, it worked PRECISELY like he explained it. And it was one of the best jobs I ever had. One of the few jobs I ever had where I liked everyone in management and felt they were doing right by the owners, their customers, and the people they managed. I can only say that about a brewery, a couple restaurants, and the Hyatt Vacation Club in Key West. I've worked at more than a few places where management wasn't doing right by anyone -- not the owners, not the customers, and not the employees. I didn't stick around long in such places. And I switched careers because of this.

 

[travelhacker]

In public statements they've said that they have no plans to integrate Hyatt to Abound.

Personally, I think it would make a lot of sense to integrate the systems. While I prefer Hyatt properties, you can't argue with the far superior footprint of the combined Abound system. I bought a few Kierland weeks that got integrated into Abound and I really like it.

I think some of the Hyatt properties would create a lot of buzz for existing Marriott owners, and the footprint of all the Marriott properties would do the same for Hyatt owners.

Lastly, (nearly) all Hyatt properties have RoFR which provides a steady stream of adding points to Abound. Given how I think certain properties within Hyatt would be valued within Abound, I think it would probably improve the maintenance fees for weeks added to the trust (especially given that the trust would save $157 in club dues every year).

However, I don't see them even considering something like this for another few years. It took a long time for them to integrate the Vistana system, and I'm not sure how well that's boosted sales (if at all). If in a couple of years it was seen as a success, I'm sure they could put together a Club to Club exchange agreement like they did with Vistana.

 

[daviator]

They don’t have to “integrate” the systems in a way that makes it particularly easy or desirable for owners from either side to exchange into the other. They just need to make it possible to do so, and then it becomes another selling point on both sides. And that may be their main goal.

 

[jwalk03]

MVC has made it clear from the very get-go that they have no intention of integrating Hyatt into Abound. And all of the actions they have taken since then continue to indicate that they have no intentions of integrating Hyatt into Abound. So why on earth anyone would believe a lying timeshare salesman when he says they are going to is beyond me. It’s clearly a lie- and a laughable one at that. It’s not happening.

There would be a much higher likelihood of them selling off Hyatt to one of their competitors than integrating it- but even that doesn’t seem highly likely.

 

[ScoopKona]

They don’t have to “integrate” the systems in a way that makes it particularly easy or desirable for owners from either side to exchange into the other. They just need to make it possible to do so, and then it becomes another selling point on both sides. And that may be their main goal.

I think it is also likely that Marriott couldn't buy a company which gave their owners a better deal than MVC gives their owners. Rather than improve their system, they broke ours.

 

[Hindsite]

I should have been more clear, but I thought it was obvious that I was talking about the Hyatt timeshare business (which MVC did buy) vs. Hyatt Hotels which remains separate. Sorry for any confusion.

Really, MVC, did not buy Hyatt timeshares.

They are both owned by the same holding company (MVW), just as Sheraton and Westin, and II and other assorted stuff is owned by MVW.

It matters, as sales spin various lies that "As MVC own...." to get people to buy what they don't need. MVC do not control the Hyatt timeshare business and are unlikely to have any sway over what is done with it.

 

[Hindsite]

I'm only referring to timeshares in my comments as well.

It's also a matter of availability. My assumption is that a points focused program set up like I mentioned above would have much greater availability across the brands than what you find in II for week long trades.

But I don't use points in II, so am just going by the lack of what I see for week long trades into Hyatts within II. Does the current system allow you use Abound points to trade for Hyatt timeshares within II? If so, does that feature show any better availability for Hyatt timeshares using points within II than the weeks trades in II show?

Yes I was also referring to timeshares.

The assumption that availability via an Abound mechanism would yield better results is risky, there are many MVC resorts where the availability and value via II is better than Abound.

Yes you can use Club points in II for Hyatt properties now, see example below, you can run the numbers for your ownership to see if it would be worth it for you. With Abound club points in II it is the number of points needed that varies with unit size and TDI. with weeks it is a more complex set of parameters. I can see these weeks using a low season MVC 2-bed that elects for less than 1900club points, hence the terrible value using club points in II. If that translates to any Hyatt inventory in Abound then its going to be expensive for people to use that option. Some will, they always do.

 

[daviator]

Really, MVC, did not buy Hyatt timeshares.

They are both owned by the same holding company (MVW), just as Sheraton and Westin, and II and other assorted stuff is owned by MVW.

It matters, as sales spin various lies that "As MVC own...." to get people to buy what they don't need. MVC do not control the Hyatt timeshare business and are unlikely to have any sway over what is done with it.

Sorry, that’s my bad. MVW, parent of MVC, bought Hyatt. I tend to use the two (MVW and MVC) interchangeably as they are almost, but not quite, the same. But that’s sloppy of me.

Now it is certainly possibe that MVW plans to keep Hyatt completely separate from its other timeshare businesses, and they could do so. But they didn’t do so with their former subsidiary, Vistana, which has now been folded into MVC, and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that they’d buy HVC with no plans to integrate it with their existing businesses. Time will tell.

 

[Hindsite]

Vistana, which has now been folded into MVC, and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that they’d buy HVC with no plans to integrate it with their existing businesses. Time will tell.

Vistana has not been "folded into MVC", another sales lie you are perpetuating.

All that has been done is that Sheraton and Westin owners have been given access to the Abound exchange platform and the associated inventory available via that, that's completely different from them being "folded in, integrated, merged" or any other term that implies a change to the underlying ownership that people have. Thankfully, the underlying ownership has not changed, and the brands operate separately within the wider MVW business. Discretionary benefits of ownership have been adjusted both up and down for both MVC and Vistana owners as part of the process.

MVW also have licencing agreements in place for the use of the Marriott and Hyatt brand names, those agreements have terms that control how and where those brands are used. The Hyatt agreement would need to reflect the change and if Hyatt hotels don't want to play that game it may not happen. Amending the agreement for Sheraton and Westin with Marriott International would have been a lot easier due to there being and existing agreement in place for MVC.

If Hyatt and Welk owners were provided with a similar additional option for their use of ownership, that would not necessarily require a change to their underlying ownership. It could be done in a similar way to the agreement put in place with VSN or something completely different.

What I think is loads more plausible is an easier interface for using Abound club points in their various reservation channels, so it may look the same whether someone is booking via II or Abound with their club points. That gels with the current sales lie that you will soon be able to book DVC "direct" with Club points. You can do that now via II in the same way as you can Hyatt.

The question with all of this is what do MVW have to gain from the grief and cost involved in the change for Hyatt access to Abound? The Vistana change was sold based on increased sales, which do not appear to have materialised. The stockholders (MVW owners) will not support another expensive disruption to the business without the return being crystal clear and deliverable.

 

[YYJMSP]

My guess

Marriott bought Starwood, so they also got the licensing agreements with Vistana. Now they essentially control both sides of the relationship

That gives them a lot more leeway than dealing with their ownership of Hyatt timeshares which would have some licensing agreement with Hyatt, who they don't control

Marriott will keep changing/tweaking the linkages to Vistana until.they can't figure out any new ways of making more money selling the same inventory over and over

Marriott is probably restricted in what they can do with the Hyatt timeshares

 

[daviator]

Vistana has not been "folded into MVC", another sales lie you are perpetuating.

All that has been done is that Sheraton and Westin owners have been given access to the Abound exchange platform and the associated inventory available via that, that's completely different from them being "folded in, integrated, merged" or any other term that implies a change to the underlying ownership that people have. Thankfully, the underlying ownership has not changed, and the brands operate separately within the wider MVW business. Discretionary benefits of ownership have been adjusted both up and down for both MVC and Vistana owners as part of the process.

MVW also have licencing agreements in place for the use of the Marriott and Hyatt brand names, those agreements have terms that control how and where those brands are used. The Hyatt agreement would need to reflect the change and if Hyatt hotels don't want to play that game it may not happen. Amending the agreement for Sheraton and Westin with Marriott International would have been a lot easier due to there being and existing agreement in place for MVC.

If Hyatt and Welk owners were provided with a similar additional option for their use of ownership, that would not necessarily require a change to their underlying ownership. It could be done in a similar way to the agreement put in place with VSN or something completely different.

What I think is loads more plausible is an easier interface for using Abound club points in their various reservation channels, so it may look the same whether someone is booking via II or Abound with their club points. That gels with the current sales lie that you will soon be able to book DVC "direct" with Club points. You can do that now via II in the same way as you can Hyatt.

The question with all of this is what do MVW have to gain from the grief and cost involved in the change for Hyatt access to Abound? The Vistana change was sold based on increased sales, which do not appear to have materialised. The stockholders (MVW owners) will not support another expensive disruption to the business without the return being crystal clear and deliverable.

Now you’re just being rude. I have not perpetuated any sales lies.

Vistana has absolutely been effectively, and probably actually, folded into MVC. VSN still exists and will continue to do so, but there is no more separate Vistana identity or sales operation and there will be no new Vistana or VSN properties. When you call in to book, you talk to MVc. I don’t know if the actual Vistana corporate entity still exists or not but it diesnt really matter; Vistana is effectively gone, with the exception of its exchange network that will continue indefinitely.

The staff at former Vistana properties get their paychecks from MVC now. Vistana has been folded into MVC.

Look at the copyright notice at the bottom of the Vistana home page. It’s all MVC now. Vistana, as well as Westin Vacation Club and Sheraton Vacation Club, are brands of MVC. And they are sunsetting Vistana as a brand, certainly for any new owners. Existing VSN members will continue to have access to the network as I said.

 

[dioxide45]

Sorry, that’s my bad. MVW, parent of MVC, bought Hyatt. I tend to use the two (MVW and MVC) interchangeably as they are almost, but not quite, the same. But that’s sloppy of me.

Now it is certainly possibe that MVW plans to keep Hyatt completely separate from its other timeshare businesses, and they could do so. But they didn’t do so with their former subsidiary, Vistana, which has now been folded into MVC, and it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that they’d buy HVC with no plans to integrate it with their existing businesses. Time will tell.

I think the roadblocks with Hyatt are different than with Vistana (Sheraton and Westin). Sheraton and Westin both became Marriott International hotel brands prior to Marriott Vacations Worldwide acquiring ILG (which brought in Vistana). The integration was a natural extension to Marriott Vacation Club. There were no real licensing issues that would prevent Marriott Vacations from brining the systems together through Abound. With Hyatt you have two separate hotel brands and two separate hotel loyalty and licensing contracts. Can Marriott Vacations Worldwide get Hyatt on board to allow cross bookings and potentially Marriott Vacation Club trying to sell Hyatt owners Abound Club points that can be converted to Marriott Bonvoy points? Also, I don't think Hyatt wants MVW to be pushing people from Hyatt brands into Marriott brands. It just doesn't make sense.