Hyatt Ka'anapali Resort Presentation

[socaltimeshare]

there are 40 float units per week, those are 60% sold out

In simple terms, you select the week you want then 12 months prior to the first day of occupancy

In general, I haven't heard too many float owners complain that they can't get the week they want WHEN booked 12 months in advance. There was one owner who posted elsewhere that they didn't get their first choice but got their second choice. I've always wondered if any of this has to do with the float weeks not being sold out. Will things change when the remaining 40% of floats not currently sold (per Kal's report) are later sold to owners, and now there are 40% more owners competing for prime weeks?

Also, saying there are 40 float units per week feels too vague as floats are segmented by floor bands and owners can only book an available unit within their floor band. In addition, I believe there may only be 33 floats (not 40) based on the chart in the HKB owner's handbook. According to that there are 8 lower level, 13 mid level, and 12 upper level 2 bedroom floats. Unless I missed something (it is a 500+ page file), the owner documents do not indicate any 1 bedroom floats. Do you perhaps have a different document that shows the 1 bedroom floats and a total of 40 floats?

 

[Scavanjer]

It would be helpful for you to describe how you think a float week works. That way we can correct any errors, fill in gaps or confirm your thoughts. In simple terms, you select the week you want then 12 months prior to the first day of occupancy, you request that week. The Xmas/NY weeks are not available as float weeks.

I tend to over think things. Thanks for simplifying the float weeks, I realize now its pretty straight forward. Because I'm an "analyzer" I run the numbers and compare scenarios and project what-if scenarios to try and determine the best course of action on making large financial decision. One of the things that I get stuck on when looking at timeshare ownership like HKB is that after I look at the various scenarios, fixed week vs float, 2BR or 3BR, 1 week or 2 weeks, etc....I see rental prices for HKB for units and weeks that I would be happy with priced anywhere from $4500-$6000 and I ask myself. Why do I need to buy the timeshare when I can just rent for a price that is marginally higher than the annual MF but without any long term commitment? I realize I pay a higher price for the flexibility of renting but I'm also not tied down to anything and have no large up front down payment.

Surely many of you on this BBS have gone through this same mental exercise so I'm curious what were the deciding factors for you in pulling the trigger to purchase vs just rent or do nothing? If I decided 100% that I wanted to be in Maui and stay at the HKB for 1 week every year then the purchase option would make sense. The 2200 points give strong trading power and give vacation flexibility but at a price that seems to be a premium over just doing my homework and finding great rental deals in other resort locations worldwide. I've been staying in hotel suites, leveraging my Hyatt Globalist status now for over 10 years, so I do enjoy a high quality property. I've become more intrigued with HRC because I think I'm at a stage in life where I would like to transition into more of a condo/home type of experience.....ie. a full kitchen and multiple bedrooms!! That is what attracted me to HRC program and I love Maui. What I struggle with is why commit to timeshare purchase rather than just find a great unit and rent it? I would appreciate the input of you all that have gone through this before. Thanks!

 

[Kal]

I like your analytical approach. Sometimes it can be a never ending spiral into numbers which might lead to setting priorities in life. HKB is very different from the other HRC resorts as it is the newest in the system and in a great location. If it is totally a financial decision, you might look at it on a cash flow basis. Purchase a unit to rent and see what that does on cash flow. A good week could get you $9K (or more). A capital layout of say $40K would give you a 14% annual return after M/F. As for resale, Maui real estate prices are going thru the roof. So it's highly likely you will get your initial capital back down the road. You could use those earnings to pay for rental at other properties in Maui or elsewhere. Of course if you stay in the unit, the loss of the $9K annual income becomes an opportunity cost.

On the positive vacation side, you don't have to stay every year but get a quality location at $475/night (2 BR, M/F divided by 7 days). You can't get anything comparable in Maui. And you don't have to go every year.

You can chase your tail with numbers, but if quality vacation is a priority, these numbers seem to pencil out.

 

[socaltimeshare]

A capital layout of say $40K would give you a 14% annual return after M/F.

Your not factoring in taxes. A HKB rental of $9,000 would have ~$1,300 in Hawaii occupancy taxes (it's based on rental price with no deductions for expenses like MF). Then, you have Hawaii GET tax, Hawaii income tax, and federal tax. Probably close to 7K gross if you rent it for 9K, then take out MF, and profit is ~4.5K. Still not bad at 11.25% profit off 40K. Plus, the MF are paid by credit card and count under the travel spend category, so it's an easy way to rack up some credit card points, miles, etc (whatever your preference is).

The 2200 points give strong trading power and give vacation flexibility

If you want a trader there are other HRCs for this under 10K. Never trade HKB. Use or rent it.

If I decided 100% that I wanted to be in Maui and stay at the HKB for 1 week every year then the purchase option would make sense.

You may eventually find yourself wanting to visit other islands, etc. But the current beauty of HKB is if you get the right week you will have no problem renting it and then using the proceeds to go elsewhere.

why commit to timeshare purchase rather than just find a great unit and rent it?

There is relaxation in knowing what to expect by going back to the same place and getting the same unit setup. We are getting really good at vacationing in Maui. Feels like overall our vacationing is much more efficient / much more relaxing. Plus, you get to know the staff and they get to know you. Feels more like a 2nd home vs. a hotel.

 

[Kal]

Your not factoring in taxes. A HKB rental of $9,000 would have ~$1,300 in Hawaii occupancy taxes (it's based on rental price with no deductions for expenses like MF). Then, you have Hawaii GET tax, Hawaii income tax, and federal tax. Probably close to 7K gross if you rent it for 9K, then take out MF, and profit is ~4.5K. Still not bad at 11.25% profit off 40K. Plus, the MF are paid by credit card and count under the travel spend category, so it's an easy way to rack up some credit card points, miles, etc (whatever your preference is).


If you want a trader there are other HRCs for this under 10K. Never trade HKB. Use or rent it.


You may eventually find yourself wanting to visit other islands, etc. But the current beauty of HKB is if you get the right week you will have no problem renting it and then using the proceeds to go elsewhere.


There is relaxation in knowing what to expect by going back to the same place and getting the same unit setup. We are getting really good at vacationing in Maui. Feels like overall our vacationing is much more efficient / much more relaxing. Plus, you get to know the staff and they get to know you. Feels more like a 2nd home vs. a hotel.

Good point on the taxes. Your numbers showing an 11.25% return would still work. Compared to CD's or the stock market, especially over the last year, the own-to-rent with a vacation option for a $40K chunk of money feels comfortable. I recently did 2 weeks in Paris, staying at an Airbnb, and I have great memories and A STACK OF RECEIPTS. It's just a matter of how you want to manage your funds. Now let me see how my investments did in the last year!! Ohhh, my head is starting to hurt

 

[Scavanjer]

It would be helpful for you to describe how you think a float week works. That way we can correct any errors, fill in gaps or confirm your thoughts. In simple terms, you select the week you want then 12 months prior to the first day of occupancy, you request that week. The Xmas/NY weeks are not available as float weeks.

Ok, some questions on fixed vs float weeks:

Are float weeks the same as you just buying points at your resort?

How is the deed written up in terms of what you actually own for a floating week?

If I own an annual float week, and make a reservation from 1 year from now (11/21/2023) can I make another reservation for 6/1/2024 on 6/1/2023?

How many floating weeks exist and are floating weeks the only thing that is being sold by the resort in their retail sales pitch right now?

How long has HKB been selling floating weeks?

If I own a fixed week, say week 49, and I want to try and book a different week next year at HKB, how likely is this to be successful? What is the procedure to do this?

Thanks!

 

[ocdb8r]

Good point on the taxes. Your numbers showing an 11.25% return would still work. Compared to CD's or the stock market, especially over the last year, the own-to-rent with a vacation option for a $40K chunk of money feels comfortable. I recently did 2 weeks in Paris, staying at an Airbnb, and I have great memories and A STACK OF RECEIPTS. It's just a matter of how you want to manage your funds. Now let me see how my investments did in the last year!! Ohhh, my head is starting to hurt

But is $9k really a reasonable expectation? The only weeks on Redweek listed for over 8K are holidays weeks (4th of July, Spring Break); I see summer weeks for $6,300 (already rented) to $8k. Non summer weeks the average is much lower. With maintenance fees at $3400+ for 2023 and forward, it's still a tight squeeze to get a decent return.

 

[Kal]

Ok, some questions on fixed vs float weeks:

Are float weeks the same as you just buying points at your resort?

How is the deed written up in terms of what you actually own for a floating week?

If I own an annual float week, and make a reservation from 1 year from now (11/21/2023) can I make another reservation for 6/1/2024 on 6/1/2023?

How many floating weeks exist and are floating weeks the only thing that is being sold by the resort in their retail sales pitch right now?

How long has HKB been selling floating weeks?

If I own a fixed week, say week 49, and I want to try and book a different week next year at HKB, how likely is this to be successful? What is the procedure to do this?

Thanks!

Float Weeks vs Points: Hyatt only sells points in the Portfolio Program. If you purchase a HRC unit with the intention of using its point value to stay elsewhere, that would equate to "buying points". You still own real estate.

Float Deed: Exclusive right to use Unit #xxxx in a specified Floor Band in accordance with the Timeshare Plan. The unit number is provided for "inventory purposes" only. The Plan specifies how the floating week works i.e. Weeks 51-52 are not included.

Reservation: A reservation can be made not earlier than one year from the first day of occupancy. First come first served. A reservation for 11/21/23 can be requested starting 11/21/22. If you own ONE week, that will exhaust 2023 usage. You can make the reservation for 2024 on the same basis.

Sales: There are 33 Float Week units. 8 on Floor 4, 4 on Floor 7, 9 on Floor 8, 4 on Floor 11 and 8 on Floor 12 (4121-4128) Hyatt is selling both fixed week and floating week units right now. Don't know when floating weeks first became available.

Booking alternate weeks: If you own a fixed HKB week and want to book a different HKB week, you would have to do so using the point value of the owned week thru the HRC reservation/request system. In that manner you would have to compete with every other HRC owner who has requested the target week. First come, first served on the Request List. Probability of success = EXTREMELY LOW.

 

[Kal]

But is $9k really a reasonable expectation? The only weeks on Redweek listed for over 8K are holidays weeks (4th of July, Spring Break); I see summer weeks for $6,300 (already rented) to $8k. Non summer weeks the average is much lower. With maintenance fees at $3400+ for 2023 and forward, it's still a tight squeeze to get a decent return.

The price largely depends on the Floor Band. The upper 4 floors comand a high price while the bottom 4 floors are low. 1BR are much less than 2BR or 3BR. Then the specific week makes a big difference.

 

[socaltimeshare]

The upper 4 floors comand a high price while the bottom 4 floors are low.

I've rented my lower-level unit for over 8K twice so I would argue with your claim that the bottom 4 floors command a low price.

 

[Kal]

I've rented my lower-level unit for over 8K twice so I would argue with your claim that the bottom 4 floors command a low price.

I'm basing that on Hyatt's sales pricing structure. The LO-2s sell for quite a bit less then the UP-2s. Matter of fact, Hyatt is changing their prices to sell the MID-2s at a higher price than the UP-2s because people shy away from the higher priced top floor band. Supply and demand.

 

[socaltimeshare]

I'm basing that on Hyatt's sales pricing structure. The LO-2s sell for quite a bit less then the UP-2s.

There was a 12K difference in price between LL-2 and UP-2 when I was quoted last. But that does not mean they rent for significantly more. The LL units are a hidden secret. Many of the people paying developer pricing for a unit have no problem shelling out another 12K. People avoid them because they imagine ending up on the 1st. The reality is only 4 of 31 LL 2-bedrooms are on this 1st and there are a handful of people who actually request 1st-floor units due to ease of access to the pool. Thus, it becomes very rare to actually randomly receive a 1st-floor unit, especially if you put it in the notes that you don't want one. The rest are on floors 2-4. The view is great and generally below the palms of the palm trees. The common perception is that higher is always better however some of the mid-units have more obstructed views IMO.

 

[socaltimeshare]

A reservation for 11/21/23 can be requested starting 11/21/22. If you own ONE week, that will exhaust 2023 usage. You can make the reservation for 2024 on the same basis.

What happens to a float member who fails to make a 2023 reservation in 2022? Do those points transition to CUP status 6 months into the new year?

Don't know when floating weeks first became available.

The CC&Rs were amended on the 12th of Dec., 2017 to allow floats so my guess would be the first quarter of 2018.

 

[dagger1]

In short, ownership of a floating week is the BEST way to go. If you plan 12 months ahead of your stay, the reservation process will provide almost any week you desire.

A floating week option is rare as it is only offered by a very few HRC resorts. Hyatt Ka'anapali is the leader in that category. IMHO, an owner of a fixed week will eventually be disappointed that the original premise to select that specific week no longer works. School vacations and personal vacation schedule are often a primary driving force. Another factor is the owner just doesn't want to take that trip to Maui every year and at the same time.

A very common theme with HRC owners is to exchange into Ka'anapali as desired. The vast majority of HKB units are 2 BR with a relative handful of 1 BR units. Therefore it would be necessary to own 2200 points to even have an opportunity to exchange. Even then it's a "crap shoot" to get in. That makes it very difficult for longer term vacation planning. Another option is to purchase a 2200 point HKB week and then use those points for exchange elsewhere in the HRC system. That would be very unwise as the capital purchase price could easily be $60K where a 2200 point resale week could be found for maybe $10K. The question then becomes "why am I spending my $25/point HKB to stay in a $4/point HRC unit"? The common answer for HKB owners is to rent their unit for easily $9K/week and use that cash to pay for a mainland vacation. That decision makes it even more difficult to exchange into

Trading into Hyatt Ka'anapali will always be a difficult trade -- especially during summer and school vacation weeks. And if you buy a fixed week and need to change it, you are trading. You will be competing with every Hyatt owner with a 2200 point unit.

We are here at the Marriott Maui Ocean Club, leave tomorrow evening late. We were at the Marriott Ko’Olina the previous week. What amazed us at both resorts was the numbers of children, especially early teen and younger. The pools were packed with kids having a ball. It was great to see these youngsters and their families. I think people now don’t hesitate in pulling their kids out of school in offseason.

 

[andrewf731]

Just attended a sales pitch at HKB here is the current deal:
2BR, middle floors 5-8, EOY floating week: $53,640
8% discount down to $49,349
$1500 credit because we are currently guests at the Hyatt Regency next door
$3013 incentive or 250,000 WoH points
Bottom line if subtracting all incentives above : $44,836

We did not sign up but took an offer to pay $1789 for 5 nights to use at the resort in the next 2 years but have to attend a follow up sales pitch. Will also get 25,000 WoH points for doing this.

I still am not comfortable with how float works and and why I shouldn’t just buy on the resale market a fixed week (float week resales seem nonexistent). I get that float is more flexible but I’m not going to sign up for $40k without knowing all the details of the program….

Also, I see the effect of inflation on the annual MF as HKB MF went up over 11.5% for 2023. I need to do more research but appreciate this forum to help educate! Thanks

I'll give an update on the current offer as of April 2023:
2BR, middle floors 5-8, EOY floating week: $54,180
8% discount down to $49,846
$1500 credit because we were guests at the Hyatt Regency next door
250,000 WoH points + 100,000 (We negotiated for these extra points). This is valued at ~$10,500 based on a reasonable 3 cent/point (CPP) redemption value at other Hyatt properties. If you vacation a lot it is very reasonable. Our Hyatt Regency stay was actually closer to 4 CPP. You can use travel cards such as the Chase Sapphire Reserve/Preferred to get even better redemption since they generate 3x points for food/travel and transfer 1-1 into WOH.
Bottom line if subtracting all incentives above : $37,846
I wouldn't say this is a terrible price considering resale for a floating week EOY 2BR middle floor is in the $25-30k range. You also gain the WOH exchange option for club points over a resale deed, but I would never do that trade. It is a terrible deal. They also cap the percentage of total club points to WOH points you can exchange.

 

[Scavanjer]

Still, why would you buy from the developer when you could just be patient and find a similar 2BR deal on Redweek or other resale sights for 10-15K less or perhaps make an offer for even lower and possibly score a slightly better deal?

 

[ScoopKona]

Still, why would you buy from the developer when you could just be patient and find a similar 2BR deal on Redweek or other resale sights for 10-15K less or perhaps make an offer for even lower and possibly score a slightly better deal?

Where are these Redweek sales for $10-15K less of which you speak?

I don't want a Maui week because I'm already in Hawaii. But as far as I know, that resort is so popular that the choices are:
1) Buy from the developer.
2) Settle for some lesser resort.

 

[Scavanjer]

About a month ago there were 4 different listings for 2BR EOY at HKB in the 20-30k range. I would imagine more show up in the future. Is there a situation where anyone really has to buy like right away?

 

[ScoopKona]

About a month ago there were 4 different listings for 2BR EOY at HKB in the 20-30k range. I would imagine more show up in the future. Is there a situation where anyone really has to buy like right away?

It's a timeshare. Nobody has to buy one at all.

I wouldn't buy one -- even if I didn't live 80 miles away from that resort. I would be just as happy with some other resort which costs a fraction of the price and the maintenance fees. If I was staying at some other timeshare and I had the opportunity to upgrade to HKB, I would do so in a split second, sure. But it's not worth the money to me because everything I like about Hawaii is outside.

For the people who demand four star accommodations, there aren't many options. And HKB is far less expensive than renting a week every year at the Four Seasons. AirBnB is ridiculous. There's a person down the street from me renting out a TENT for $150 per night. It's a big tent. But it's still just a tent. Prices here are crazy.

 

[MOXJO7282]

About a month ago there were 4 different listings for 2BR EOY at HKB in the 20-30k range. I would imagine more show up in the future. Is there a situation where anyone really has to buy like right away?

There is no doubt the OP could've saved some decent coin by buying resale if they were patient. The question is how much and how long would they need to wait to find good resale deals. I don't know the HKB market but assume good units come up for sale. The better the unit the less gap in direct and resale pricing has been my experience. My guess is he could've saved a at least $5-10K based on incentives offered.

 

[Kal]

There is no doubt the OP could've saved some decent coin by buying resale if they were patient. The question is how much and how long would they need to wait to find good resale deals. I don't know the HKB market but assume good units come up for sale. The better the unit the less gap in direct and resale pricing has been my experience. My guess is he could've saved a at least $5-10K based on incentives offered.

You have to look very carefully at the incentives. If it's a cash discount, perfect! If it's points, there are always strings attached such as more out of pocket cash. One incentive for HKB developer purchase was 250K WOW points. How would that "free stay" work for you once you drill down in the fine print??

 

[socaltimeshare]

This is valued at ~$10,500 based on a reasonable 3 cent/point (CPP) redemption value at other Hyatt properties.

You shouldn’t value these points at potential redemption value. You should value them at what you can buy them directly from Hyatt at. Typically, Hyatt will runs sales upwards of 20% and you then can buy the points under 2 cents/point.

 

[RunCat]

You shouldn’t value these points at potential redemption value. You should value them at what you can buy them directly from Hyatt at. Typically, Hyatt will runs sales upwards of 20% and you then can buy the points under 2 cents/point.

The Points Guy values WOH points at 1.7 cents/point.

 

[rickandcindy23]

I have been transferring Chase Sapphire Reserve points to Hyatt to get a few nights at Hyatt Res Club Ka'anapali. I spend $10K on MF's and get 30,000 points and transfer over for a free night in a one bedroom to end our trip and get us to a cheaper day to fly home. It might not always work, but for now it works great.

I would love to own there. The fees are pretty high.

 

[Tucsonadventurer]

I have been transferring Chase Sapphire Reserve points to Hyatt to get a few nights at Hyatt Res Club Ka'anapali. I spend $10K on MF's and get 30,000 points and transfer over for a free night in a one bedroom to end our trip and get us to a cheaper day to fly home. It might not always work, but for now it works great.

I would love to own there. The fees are pretty high.

I just saw June 3 to June 10 open for 30,000 Hyatt points per night but 1 bedroom mountain